Israel war

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Well do you really think he is voting third party, or is he just selling this to wavering liberal supporters?  I think the latter.  

So, this only sounds like it is addressed to him.

That and I believe in free & fair elections, so that part is easy to articulate.

I don’t think that ever post is a campaign ad

Trapper Gus wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Joe Biden is a great American, one of the greatest - but I can't support someone who blindly supports the terrorist in Israel.

the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator is a bloated sack of disgusting putrid christian filth who rapes women and girls, wrap  himself in the flag while inciting violence on America, gripping his filthy bible.

RFK Jr is an anti-vax conspiracy theorist trying to capitalize on his elitist family name to advance his sick, twisted, corporate-supported agenda and the low-information people believe it.

Bob, I know you are smarter than you let on, and that you understand that the United States national interest is what Biben has to consider first, thus in the interest of trying to keep the mid-east under control he really has no good options in this situation, but would you have him supporting Hamas instead?  There as only two sides here.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Bob, I know you are smarter than you let on, and that you understand that the United States national interest is what Biben has to consider first, thus in the interest of trying to keep the mid-east under control he really has no good options in this situation, but would you have him supporting Hamas instead?  There as only two sides here.

seems to me that both Ithe government  of Israel and Hamas are terrorist organizations. I hate that my government chooses to support one of them.

It would be disingenuous for me to pretend otherwise.

That's all, dude.

With U.S. democracy plagued by extremism, polarization, and a growing disconnect between voters and lawmakers, a set of reforms that could dramatically upend how Americans vote is gaining momentum at surprising speed in Western states.

Ranked choice voting, which asks voters to rank multiple candidates in order of preference, has seen its profile steadily expand since 2016, when Maine became the first state to adopt it. But increasingly, RCV is being paired with a new system for primaries known as Final Five — or in some cases, Final Four — that advances multiple candidates, regardless of party, to the general election.

Together, proponents argue, these twin reforms deliver fairer outcomes that better reflect the will of voters, while disempowering the extremes and encouraging candidates and elected officials to prioritize conciliation and compromise.

Alaska, the only state currently using RCV-plus-Final Four or Final-Five, appears to be seeing some benefits to its political culture already: After years of partisan rancor, both legislative chambers are now controlled by bipartisan majorities eager to find common ground and respond to the needs of voters, say lawmakers in the state who have embraced the new system.

A slew of other states could soon follow in Alaska’s footsteps. Last year, Nevada voters approved a constitutional amendment that would create an RCV-plus-Final-Five system — for the measure to take effect, voters must approve it again next year.

Efforts also are underway to get RCV-plus-Final-Five on Arizona’s 2024 ballot, and RCV-plus-Final-Four on the 2026 ballots in Colorado and Idaho — where organizers announced Wednesday that they’ve gathered 50,000 signatures (they need around 63,000 to qualify). Even Wisconsin Republicans, who in the redistricting sphere have fought reform efforts tooth and nail, in December held a hearing for bipartisan legislation that would create RCV-plus-Final-Five, though its prospects appear dim.

Meanwhile, Oregon voters will decide next year whether to adopt RCV alone. And this year, Minnesota and Illinois lawmakers passed bills to study RCV, while Connecticut approved a measure that allows local governments to use it.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
seems to me that both Ithe government  of Israel and Hamas are terrorist organizations. I hate that my government chooses to support one of them.

It would be disingenuous for me to pretend otherwise.

That's all, dude.

While somewhat true it isn't in the top 10, for me, of reasons I vote for people in my government.  I'm more concerned about what the US does to other countries and if the US is supporting countries where their governments support Life, Liberty & Pursuit of Happiness in a democratic system, though again that is really not in the top 5 reasons I vote for people.  Mostly I vote for people who support those policies in my country.

Sorry to be focused on my own well-being, but as Truman Capote once said, "I understand there are two points of view on this issue, however in this case I have to take the point of view which benefits me", when he was talking about a lawsuit, in which he was involved.

In other news, the voters in Israel are stupid...

Heavy fighting raged in central and southern Gaza on Wednesday as fears mounted of a regional escalation following a strike in Beirut that killed one of the top Hamas leaders.

Cameron wrote:And your evidence that he is trying to tamp it down would be? All the munitions he keeps sending them?

Cameron wrote:So no evidence that Biden is tamping anything down in any meaningful way, got it.

On February 4, 2021, just after Secretary of State Antony Blinken took office, Biden spoke at the State Department and said “the message I want the world to hear today” is that “America is back. Diplomacy is back at the center of our foreign policy.” In a New York Times article from December 31, Peter Baker, Edward Wong, Julian E. Barnes, and Isabel Kershner emphasize that Biden and his team have been engaged constantly in diplomacy with Israel, Qatar, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Oman. Since the October 7, 2023, attack by Iran-backed Hamas on Israel, Biden has spoken with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu 14 times and visited Israel; Blinken has traveled to the region three times and visited Israel five times.

On December 22, in the Christian Science Monitor, Arab political journalist Taylor Luck and correspondent Fatima AbdulKarim reported that Arab Gulf states, Egypt, Jordan, the U.S., and the European Union have created “[a] massive postwar reconstruction plan…for the besieged Gaza Strip.” The plan is to “rebuild the coastal strip, unite and overhaul Palestinian governance, and create a Palestinian security force in Gaza to ensure Palestinian and Israeli security.”

Arab diplomats insist the reconstruction of southern Gaza, including alleviating suffering, rebuilding housing and infrastructure, and restoring jobs, must be “rapid”; Gulf states have set $3 billion a year for ten years as the first budget. The plan calls for a “revamped and revitalized” Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza and the West Bank with current president Mahmoud Abbas as a figurehead and an apolitical unity government running affairs.

The plan is still developing, but already the main obstacles are Israel’s governing coalition, led by Netanyahu, who refuses the ideas of a two-state solution and of a Palestinian Authority in charge of Gaza, and Hamas, which Gulf states as well as the U.S. reject as a participant in the future governance of Gaza. Other Iran-backed militias also oppose such a solution.

From the beginning of the Hamas-Israel war, the Biden administration has been very clear that its first goal was to make sure the conflict didn’t spread, with Lebanon’s Iran-allied Hezbollah and other proxy militias joining in fully. Biden immediately sent two carrier groups to the region and promised “to move in additional assets as needed.” On October 10 he warned: “Let me say again—to any country, any organization, anyone thinking of taking advantage of this situation, I have one word: Don’t. Don’t.”

Also today, in response to calls from Israeli cabinet members for the resettlement of Palestinians outside Gaza, the U.S. State Department issued a “rejection” of both the language and the idea. “We have been clear, consistent, and unequivocal that Gaza is Palestinian land and will remain Palestinian land, with Hamas no longer in control of its future and with no terror groups able to threaten Israel. That is the future we seek, in the interests of Israelis and Palestinians, the surrounding region, and the world.”

And in today’s Washington Post, Lebanon’s former prime minister Fouad Siniora and former Lebanese lawmaker Basem Shabb noted that “[d]espite the ferocity of the bombing and the great loss of innocent civilian lives in Gaza, the conflict remains largely contained to an Israeli-Palestinian confrontation—and more specifically, is broadly understood in the Arab world to be a conflict with Hamas, a non-state actor,” but warned the conflict must not spread. They noted that in November, “[i]n a first, 57 Arab and Islamic countries…called for a peaceful resolution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict based on a two-state solution,” the same concept embraced by the Biden administration.

“In response to Israel’s atrocities in Gaza, the Arab world responded with denunciation—but, more importantly, with diplomacy. No military threats were issued by any of the Arab states toward Israel,” the Lebanese lawmakers pointed out. They urged Israel to embrace the two-state solution “and, in doing so, usher in a new era in the Middle East.”

Cameron wrote:No, he hasn't.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

No real widening of the war says he has.

It is pretty clear he is working to pick up the pieces after the people of Israel throw Netanyahu and his band of murdering zionists out.  (And I mean zionist in its 19th century meaning, not as what it has been twisted into in the 21st century)

Honestly, Trapper, sometimes your partisan hackery makes you seem like a real dumbass.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Honestly, Trapper, sometimes your partisan hackery makes you seem like a real dumbass.

Don’t forget about selling yourself as the foremost expert on every topic imaginable but really it’s all just boring partisan hackery and never an original thought.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

No real widening of the war says he has.

It is pretty clear he is working to pick up the pieces after the people of Israel throw Netanyahu and his band of murdering zionists out.  (And I mean zionist in its 19th century meaning, not as what it has been twisted into in the 21st century)

Honestly, Trapper, sometimes your partisan hackery makes you seem like a real dumbass.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Seems like a good time to remind everyone that Israel and Hamas are both terrorist organizations.

kingstonlake wrote:Just checking in. Are people still killing each other in the name of their gods in the Middle East?

Zurn wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:Just checking in. Are people still killing each other in the name of their gods in the Middle East?

.



To clarify, that has not been the case.

Hamas is killing people in the name of their god.   Israel is killing people to stop Hamas from this activity.  Being done in remembrance of Oct 7 but not in the name of God.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Israel gave Hamus the money and the freedom to buy the weapons and make the plans they made.  

Zurn wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Israel gave Hamus the money and the freedom to buy the weapons and make the plans they made.  

I heard some dumb stuff around here, this may be the dumbest.

Motown Spartan wrote:

Might want to read up on this a bit. For years Israel supported Hamas behind the scenes with the intention of that support ruining any chance of a Palestinian state.

Zurn wrote:

Motown Spartan wrote:

Might want to read up on this a bit. For years Israel supported Hamas behind the scenes with the intention of that support ruining any chance of a Palestinian state.

Since Israel has made the offer of a Palestinian state multiple times, this seems unlikely.

Zurn wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Israel gave Hamus the money and the freedom to buy the weapons and make the plans they made.  

I heard some dumb stuff around here, this may be the dumbest.

Zurn wrote:

Motown Spartan wrote:

Might want to read up on this a bit. For years Israel supported Hamas behind the scenes with the intention of that support ruining any chance of a Palestinian state.

Since Israel has made the offer of a Palestinian state multiple times, this seems unlikely.

Trapper Gus wrote:

If I offer to buy your home for one dollar is that a serious offer, or just me saying I offered to buy your home?

Bill Clinton wrote: “You are leading your people and the region to a catastrophe,” former US President Bill Clinton famously told the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat when he refused a peace deal proposed at Camp David in 2000.

Zurn wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

If I offer to buy your home for one dollar is that a serious offer, or just me saying I offered to buy your home?

From your link:

Bill Clinton wrote: “You are leading your people and the region to a catastrophe,” former US President Bill Clinton famously told the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat when he refused a peace deal proposed at Camp David in 2000.

Bill Clinton was right.

ISTANBUL (AP) — U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken kicked off his latest urgent Middle East diplomatic mission in Turkey on Saturday, as fears mount that Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza may explode into a broader conflict.

Blinken’s fourth visit in three months comes amid worrying developments outside of Gaza, including in Lebanon, northern Israel, the Red Sea and Iraq, that have put intense strains on what had been a modestly successful U.S. push to prevent a regional conflagration in the weeks after the war began, and growing international criticism of Israel’s military operation.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Clinton & the US tried to strong-arm the PLA into a bad deal.  A take it or leave it offer is not a negotiation, it's an ultimatum.

Zurn wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Clinton & the US tried to strong-arm the PLA into a bad deal.  A take it or leave it offer is not a negotiation, it's an ultimatum.

What deal would you offer them Trapper?

They seemed perfectly happy when they were Jordanians and Egyptians, no clamoring for something from the river to the sea.

Sadly for everyone the only "deal" Palestinians are willing to accept is a one-state solution without Jews.

Trapper Gus wrote:

I would split the country down the middle, 50/50

Zurn wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

I would split the country down the middle, 50/50

That was essentially offered by the UN in 1947 and soundly rejected by the Arabs.   Then as now, Arabs (Palestinians) want all of the land.

Trapper Gus wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%931948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine

For those posters, like Zorn, who are ignorant regarding how "Israel" (Really Palestine by historical thinking) came about.