Re: Oregon Is First State to Adopt Automatic Voter Registration...

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2015-03-17, 09:15

LooseGoose wrote:

Nice try, but a huge distortion of what I said. Silly way to "win" an argument.

If they're engaged enough and care enough to make even a minimal effort to vote then more power to them and I'm happy they're voting.

That's much different than doing all the work for them and asking them to vote for people and policies that they've never heard of.

I'm trying to win an argument? I just got here G. And that's really what your post sounded like. I don't really care if that's not what you meant.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-03-17, 09:31

xsanguine wrote:

There's no way to keep millionaires and corporations from deciding which candidates get to get voted on. It's just the way it is... when you create a vehicle only one person can drive it and that one person (or entity in this case) is going to be the one whose acquired the most resources because they have the most resources to give.

agree..

but I'm still for letting minorities vote for which (likely white) millionaire represents them...

by Marc Summers 2015-03-17, 09:45

Robert J Sakimano wrote:in theory, of course. As long as people are perpetuating things like voter ID laws, etc., and as long as the millionaires and corporations are deciding which candidates we get to vote for.. they're not exactly "free and open".

however, chalk me up as someone who thinks everyone should have the right to vote.

I'm in full agreement with you. And everyone does have the right to vote currently. But if a person somehow cannot apply themselves for the 10 minutes it takes to get registered, I don't think they will be very beneficial in selecting a representative.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-03-17, 10:03

Marc Summers wrote:

I'm in full agreement with you. And everyone does have the right to vote currently. But if a person somehow cannot apply themselves for the 10 minutes it takes to get registered, I don't think they will be very beneficial in selecting a representative.

you're assuming that the current method is beneficial.

by Marc Summers 2015-03-17, 10:34

Robert J Sakimano wrote:you're assuming that the current method is beneficial.

I don't think the current way is beneficial. However, in the current environment I don't think it's going to be more beneficial to increase voter turnout in the most lazy and easily manipulated portions of the electorate.

Think back to the Proposal 6 in the 2012 election where Matty Moroun managed to actually gain 32 percent of the vote using scare tactic commercials for a proposal that directly harmed every person in the State of Michigan other then himself. Luckily that proposal didn't pass, but we are talking about 32 percent of the population being directly manipulated to vote against their best interests from TV commercials that obfuscated the point of what he was trying to do.

Do you think the people who can't be bothered to register to vote are the type who will actually research the issues? Or just vote based on emotion and whatever they see in their 4 hours of television per night?

We need to break down the two party system. Not increase the voter ranks to make more individuals feel like they're having an impact.

by **Heat Miser** 2015-03-17, 10:44

LoneWolfSparty wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:

So what? The point is that more people end up voting. That is the desired outcome.

And more voter fraud. Which you seem to have no problem with. I'd be fine with this if mandatory picture ID was coupled with it.

Uh...they're using motor vehicle records. You know, those things we all carry around with our pictures on them.

by **Heat Miser** 2015-03-17, 10:48

LooseGoose wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:

What the fuck does any of that do with increasing voter registration and turnout? Nothing.

Increased registration and turnout is wonderful. IF our goal is to have the choice of political leaders made by the most uninformed, unengaged citizens. Sounds like a hell of a plan. Do you use the same logic for all decisions in your life? Find the people that know the least about a subject and draft them into making the decision?

Wow...just wow.

by **The_Dude** 2015-03-17, 10:50

Meh, its already been proven that making it easier to vote doesn't result in more people voting. It actually leads to more problems having mass mail in votes.

Textbook liberal thought train. Sounds good in theory--doesn't do what you want it to do in real life.

http://theweek.com/articles/442699/absentee-voting-doesnt-increase-turnout-even-leads-more-mistakes

by **xsanguine** 2015-03-17, 10:52

Robert J Sakimano wrote:agree..

but I'm still for letting minorities vote for which (likely white) millionaire represents them...

Yeah, sure. I mean... if they're into wasting their time standing in line thinking they're participating in something because they were duped by people far more cunning and manipulative into believing that voting is patriotism and patriotism is good and you want a sticker, don't you? You want a sticker that let's everyone know you did your patriotic duty, right? You need that sticker so everyone knows you're on the good guy's team! You need that sticker!!!

by **Heat Miser** 2015-03-17, 10:56

The_Dude wrote:Meh, its already been proven that making it easier to vote doesn't result in more people voting. It actually leads to more problems having mass mail in votes.

Textbook liberal thought train. Sounds good in theory--doesn't do what you want it to do in real life.

http://theweek.com/articles/442699/absentee-voting-doesnt-increase-turnout-even-leads-more-mistakes

"Seventeen years after Oregon decided to become the first state to hold all elections with mail-in ballots"

"Oregon already has one of the highest voter registration rates in the nation — 73 percent of Oregonians were registered to vote and 70 percent of them cast ballots during the 2014 general election."

I'd say they're doing something right at nearly double the national rate.

Voter turnout in 2014 was the lowest since WWII

"Just 36.4 percent of the voting-eligible population cast ballots..."

by **The_Dude** 2015-03-17, 10:56

Im all for making it easier to vote--it's just a myth though that making it easier leads to more votes. If you want to vote--you will vote. Its really that simple.

Problem in America imo is the two party system. People feel like if they don't vote D or R their vote doesn't count and that's true.

Complete apathy has set in with the American public and the media has a heavy hand in that.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/09/23/study-early-voting-associated-with-lower-turnout/

by **Heat Miser** 2015-03-17, 10:59

xsanguine wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:agree..

but I'm still for letting minorities vote for which (likely white) millionaire represents them...

Yeah, sure. I mean... if they're into wasting their time standing in line thinking they're participating in something because they were duped by people far more cunning and manipulative into believing that voting is patriotism and patriotism is good and you want a sticker, don't you? You want a sticker that let's everyone know you did your patriotic duty, right? You need that sticker so everyone knows you're on the good guy's team! You need that sticker!!!

Two words (I think): Mail-in ballots. Did it last year. Loved it. But no sticker. [sad trombone]

by **xsanguine** 2015-03-17, 11:02

I find difficulty in fully blaming the stupid, uninformed voter, though.

Even if a voter wants to become informed... they have to deal with and get past a media that has been caught fabricating news stories and turning any news issue into something that it isn't. I sat there and personally watched CNN do it. They all manipulate every news story, every news story has an angle that fits into a larger arc.

by Toe 2015-03-17, 11:05

xsanguine wrote:I find difficulty in fully blaming the stupid, uninformed voter, though.

Even if a voter wants to become informed... they have to deal with and get past a media that has been caught fabricating news stories and turning any news issue into something that it isn't. I sat there and personally watched CNN do it. They all manipulate every news story, every news story has an angle that fits into a larger arc.

you don't vote, right?

by **xsanguine** 2015-03-17, 11:05

Heat Miser wrote:

Two words (I think): Mail-in ballots. Did it last year. Loved it. But no sticker. [sad trombone]

The sticker was the only real part of the whole process!!!

by **Heat Miser** 2015-03-17, 11:05

The_Dude wrote:I'm all for making it easier to vote

You should've stopped right there because that's what this is about. The rest is noise that belongs in different discussions.

And BTW...I voted for the 1st time in 2014 mainly due to the mail-in ballot because IT WAS EASIER. So I am living proof that all your little links are 100% BULLSHIT.

by **The_Dude** 2015-03-17, 11:06

xsanguine wrote:I find difficulty in fully blaming the stupid, uninformed voter, though.

Even if a voter wants to become informed... they have to deal with and get past a media that has been caught fabricating news stories and turning any news issue into something that it isn't. I sat there and personally watched CNN do it. They all manipulate every news story, every news story has an angle that fits into a larger arc.

Yeah, I mean what is informed? Most people will say 'informed' is anyone who 'agrees' with them.

Even during the debates candidates lie and the moderator usually has bias. Remember the Obama/Romney debate where Obama flat out lied but the moderator was Obama's friends that attended his wedding? So is watching the debates making you informed?

What if I said I was voting for Obama because he said I can keep my health insurance...does that make you informed? It was called the political lie of the year by Politico.

So what really is informed?

by **xsanguine** 2015-03-17, 11:06

Toe wrote:

you don't vote, right?

No, I don't. I'm not opposed to possibly voting locally in the future (but not in NYC).

by **Heat Miser** 2015-03-17, 11:07

xsanguine wrote:I find difficulty in fully blaming the stupid, uninformed voter, though.

Even if a voter wants to become informed... they have to deal with and get past a media that has been caught fabricating news stories and turning any news issue into something that it isn't. I sat there and personally watched CNN do it. They all manipulate every news story, every news story has an angle that fits into a larger arc.

All irrelevant to the topic.

by **xsanguine** 2015-03-17, 11:08

The_Dude wrote:

Yeah, I mean what is informed? Most people will say 'informed' is anyone who 'agrees' with them.

Even during the debates candidates lie and the moderator usually has bias. Remember the Obama/Romney debate where Obama flat out lied but the moderator was Obama's friends that attended his wedding? So is watching the debates making you informed?

What if I said I was voting for Obama because he said I can keep my health insurance...does that make you informed? It was called the political lie of the year by Politico.

So what really is informed?

Yeah, that's a good point.

I generally consider someone informed if they have a basic grasp of the issues in the current events of the time. But again, "informed" is relative to the context.

by **xsanguine** 2015-03-17, 11:09

Heat Miser wrote:

All irrelevant to the topic.

That was in response to LooseGoose's post. I just didn't quote him.

by **Heat Miser** 2015-03-17, 11:09

The_Dude wrote:
xsanguine wrote:I find difficulty in fully blaming the stupid, uninformed voter, though.

Even if a voter wants to become informed... they have to deal with and get past a media that has been caught fabricating news stories and turning any news issue into something that it isn't. I sat there and personally watched CNN do it. They all manipulate every news story, every news story has an angle that fits into a larger arc.

Yeah, I mean what is informed? Most people will say 'informed' is anyone who 'agrees' with them.

Even during the debates candidates lie and the moderator usually has bias. Remember the Obama/Romney debate where Obama flat out lied but the moderator was Obama's friends that attended his wedding? So is watching the debates making you informed?

What if I said I was voting for Obama because he said I can keep my health insurance...does that make you informed? It was called the political lie of the year by Politico.

So what really is informed?

So what? Is "being informed" a requirement to vote? According to whom? It's irrelevant to the topic.

by **The_Dude** 2015-03-17, 11:13

Heat Miser wrote:

So what? Is "being informed" a requirement to vote? According to whom? It's irrelevant to the topic.

No I never said. I was actually saying people who want more informed voters don't know what they are talking about because most people will just say someone is informed who has the same political thought as them.

Its all BS.

Id like to have voting open for 2 or 3 days but it would impact the election too much. People wouldnt show up if their guy was trailing, etc. on day 2 or 3. We would somehow have to keep all the tallies under lock and key until the third day ends then start the count.

by **xsanguine** 2015-03-17, 11:16

The_Dude wrote:

Its all BS.

by **Turtleneck** 2015-03-17, 11:25

The_Dude wrote:

No I never said. I was actually saying people who want more informed voters don't know what they are talking about because most people will just say someone is informed who has the same political thought as them.

Its all BS.

Id like to have voting open for 2 or 3 days but it would impact the election too much. People wouldnt show up if their guy was trailing, etc. on day 2 or 3. We would somehow have to keep all the tallies under lock and key until the third day ends then start the count.

There are a number of ways to increase voter turnout. One way might be reforming the registration process. Studies have shown that an automatic registration system can boost turnout by 10-15%. However, it is more likely that to achieve a much higher turnout, it will require reforming the registration process combined with another change. I will toss out some ideas for people to discuss and eventually dismiss (but still complain about the way things are).

Changes to how we vote:
Two-day voting
Weekend voting
Concurrent elections
Compulsory voting

Changes to how we elect:
Run-off elections
Proportional representation

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-03-17, 12:01

I, too, would love to see an informed electorate.. but that would eliminate the Tea Party and Sarah Palin from our recent history.. and I'm much more interested in their entertainment value than I am in a correcting the ills of a flawed government.

by Guest 2015-03-17, 12:06

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I, too, would love to see an informed electorate.. but that would eliminate the Tea Party and Sarah Palin from our recent history.. and I'm much more interested in their entertainment value than I am in a correcting the ills of a flawed government.

Or you could inform yourself....but then again that would wreck your smug narrative.

Yale Law professor Dan M. Kahan was conducting an analysis of the scientific comprehension of various political groups when he ran into a shocking discovery: tea party supporters are slightly more scientifically literate than the non-tea party population.

When composing histograms of the scientific inference abilities of liberals and conservatives, he discovered that those who described themselves as tea party supporters came out pretty well, based on National Science Foundation standards of evaluation:

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/87474-yale-professors-surprising-discovery-tea-party-supporters-scientifically-literate/

Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated

Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Their responses are like the general public’s in many ways. Most describe the amount they paid in taxes this year as “fair.” Most send their children to public schools. A plurality do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and, despite their push for smaller government, they think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost to taxpayers. They actually are just as likely as Americans as a whole to have returned their census forms, though some conservative leaders have urged a boycott.

Tea Party supporters’ fierce animosity toward Washington, and the president in particular, is rooted in deep pessimism about the direction of the country and the conviction that the policies of the Obama administration are disproportionately directed at helping the poor rather than the middle class or the rich.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?_r=0

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-03-17, 12:10

LooseGoose wrote:

Or you could inform yourself....but then again that would wreck your smug narrative.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/87474-yale-professors-surprising-discovery-tea-party-supporters-scientifically-literate/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?_r=0

I prefer not to rely on the mainstream media and academic elitists for analysis of a bunch of corporate-conglomerate ideologues and racists.. you certainly have the right to do that, though.

by Guest 2015-03-17, 12:56

An example of a non Tea Party member displaying their intellectual superiority that just crossed my twitter feed:

Rachel Suppé ‏@rachelsuppe 51m51 minutes ago
@JohnCornyn Let's be VERY clear. The reason GOP is now majority in Senate is because of redistricting and gerrymandering #JVTA #striketheban

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-03-17, 12:59

LooseGoose wrote:An example of a non Tea Party member displaying their intellectual superiority that just crossed my twitter feed:

Rachel Suppé ‏@rachelsuppe 51m51 minutes ago
@JohnCornyn Let's be VERY clear. The reason GOP is now majority in Senate is because of redistricting and gerrymandering #JVTA #striketheban

you're on Twitter? What do your Facebook friends think about redistricting?

by LoneWolfSparty 2015-03-17, 13:04

Heat Miser wrote:

Uh...they're using motor vehicle records. You know, those things we all carry around with our pictures on them.

I'm in!

by **The_Dude** 2015-03-17, 13:05

LooseGoose wrote:An example of a non Tea Party member displaying their intellectual superiority that just crossed my twitter feed:

Rachel Suppé ‏@rachelsuppe 51m51 minutes ago
@JohnCornyn Let's be VERY clear. The reason GOP is now majority in Senate is because of redistricting and gerrymandering #JVTA #striketheban

Yeah, the laundry list of excuses liberals made during the historic 2014 mid term beatdown is funny.

Its also funny how liberals will kill people over stereotyping yet they probably stereotype people on the right moreso than anybody does to anyone else.

Tea Party people are the most normal, well adjusted, hard working, productive members of society than any other political group out there. But some liberal dude on tv told Bob they are all racists backed by banks.

by LoneWolfSparty 2015-03-17, 13:06

Also I like the Iraqi way of dipping your finger in ink to signify you voted. Of course that could disenfranchise people without fingers.......

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-03-17, 13:06

The_Dude wrote:

Yeah, the laundry list of excuses liberals made during the historic 2014 mid term beatdown is funny.

Its also funny how liberals will kill people over stereotyping yet they probably stereotype people on the right moreso than anybody does to anyone else.

Tea Party people are the most normal, well adjusted, hard working, productive members of society than any other political group out there. But some liberal dude on tv told Bob they are all racists backed by banks.

they're definitely racist.. not sure they're all backed by banks, though.

by Guest 2015-03-17, 13:11

Robert J Sakimano wrote:you're on Twitter? What do your Facebook friends think about redistricting?

Never been on Facebook in my life, don't need that level of interaction with strange people.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-03-17, 13:13

LooseGoose wrote:

Never been on Facebook in my life, don't need that level of interaction with strange people.

yeah, I suppose the meeting of your local Tea Party chapter is strange enough..

by Guest 2015-03-17, 13:21

Robert J Sakimano wrote:yeah, I suppose the meeting of your local Tea Party chapter is strange enough..

Never been to one of those either, not a joiner in real life. Pretty damned close to a hermit actually, I go to town once a month whether I need to or not.

I notice you failed to comment on your fellow non tea party member's insight on redistricting affecting the Senate races. But I guess a diversion was better than facing up to that rank stupidity.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-03-17, 13:26

LooseGoose wrote:

Never been to one of those either, not a joiner in real life. Pretty damned close to a hermit actually, I go to town once a month whether I need to or not.

I notice you failed to comment on your fellow non tea party member's insight on redistricting affecting the Senate races. But I guess a diversion was better than facing up to that rank stupidity.

yeah, I just kinda hang out with the same 3-4 people most of the time, too.. I don't need any new friends and sometimes I don't really enjoy the ones I have already.. Oregon Is First State to Adopt Automatic Voter Registration... - Page 2 502811600

Oregon Is First State to Adopt Automatic Voter Registration... - Page 2 502811600

idiots everywhere.. for sure. From the people mind-numbed by the mainstream media to the knuckle-dragging racists with the tea party. Problem is, they all have a right to vote. So I might as well make a mockery of the system that has already managed to make a mockery of itself.

by Guest 2015-03-17, 14:49

Darin Gantt ‏@daringantt
In a time of division and strife, I think we can all agree on one thing: We'd all rather be Rob Ryan right now

Oregon Is First State to Adopt Automatic Voter Registration... - Page 2 CAUWvddVAAAmTfk

Oregon Is First State to Adopt Automatic Voter Registration... - Page 2 CAUWvddVAAAmTfk

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-03-17, 15:11

LooseGoose wrote:Darin Gantt ‏@daringantt
In a time of division and strife, I think we can all agree on one thing: We'd all rather be Rob Ryan right now

I don't know.. doesn't really look like my scene. Just come over, we'll put on some vinyl and I'll supply the beer.

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