Talent gap vs bama

InTenSity wrote:

The_Dude wrote:

Add Stanford , Ohio State

I stopped reading there. We beat OSU at OSU, but we can't beat OSU.

ok....

Just my opinion we are not a better team than OSU. Just like its my opinion Nebraska isnt a better team than MSU, Texas isn't better than OU, NW isn't better than Stanford, and so on.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Now everyone claims that they knew what this team was all along, we were not that good, and the B1G sucks.

Well, if you aren't a homer and actually watched MSU games this year...you knew we were not some elite team.

We've had issues all season long. We are a good team just not elite.

The_Dude wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Now everyone claims that they knew what this team was all along, we were not that good, and the B1G sucks.

Well, if you aren't a homer and actually watched MSU games this year...you knew we were not some elite team.

But there are people who have blinders on.

Yeah, whatever, guy. I'm sure you were saying this after Iowa but before we got pounded by Bama. You were right all along, Lebowski. Congrats.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Now everyone claims that they knew what this team was all along, we were not that good, and the B1G sucks.

Pretty broad brush there. I think it's probably reasonable to look back with new data and change opinions from time to time. That said, yes, there are plenty of idiots banging their chest because their doomsday scenario came to fruition after being proven wrong time and time again during the course of the season.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

The_Dude wrote:

Well, if you aren't a homer and actually watched MSU games this year...you knew we were not some elite team.

But there are people who have blinders on.

Yeah, whatever, guy. I'm sure you were saying this after Iowa but before we got pounded by Bama. You were right all along, Lebowski. Congrats.

Did you watch the entire Iowa game? Did you come away thinking MSU was some great, elite team? Did you think Iowa was some great, elite team heading into the game?

SeeRockCity wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Now everyone claims that they knew what this team was all along, we were not that good, and the B1G sucks.

Pretty broad brush there. I think it's probably reasonable to look back with new data and change opinions from time to time. That said, yes, there are plenty of idiots banging their chest because their doomsday scenario came to fruition after being proven wrong time and time again during the course of the season.

We saw how the B1G stacked up nationally....we did ok. SEC pounded us. Iowa and MSU proved to be good but not great teams.

A lot of people were saying that the entire year about Iowa and MSU. It took an ass kicing in the bowl games for the fans of the teams to realize what everyone else had been saying.

Oh well. Fuck em. B1G champs.

I think we're the second best team in the Big 10..

that doesn't mean I'm taking my Big 10 Champs t-shirt, sweatshirt, golf shirt, workout shirt, slippers, shot glasses, pint glasses, eye glasses, boxers, box cutter, can openers, neckties, twist ties, laundry detergent, staple remover and stainless steel spatula back, however.

The_Dude wrote:

SeeRockCity wrote:

InTenSity wrote:
MSU is a top 5 team.

Subjectively, no. Objectively through on-field results, yes.

Even though I'm one of the biggest sunshine optimists in this joint, this team never convinced me that we had an elite squad in any facet of the game and could not put games away when they had the chance. And yes, I'm aware of the injuries, and Tressel Ball and all that. Now that bowl results are in, the B1G was soft.

Getting beat by Nebraska in retrospect with new data is now longer as much of an anomaly as it first appeared.

I don't think we beat Ole Miss, Oklahoma, Clemson on a neutral field.

Sorry, but that's just what I think.

Add Stanford , Ohio State and possibly ND/Houston. Any team really that has an explosive passing game would have a good shot to beat us. The B1G just had horrific offenses this year...and arguably the best offense we played in Nebraska beat us...even though OSU has a better offense the game was played in a cold monsoon to negate that.

MSU just wasn't really a complete team this year and our offense just never really hit its stride.

The lack of playmakers on offense showed against Iowa who isnt that good but we won so we ignored it. And special teams have been an utter disaster all year.

No, not adding anyone to the list except maybe Stanford. We beat OSU. Lumping Houston and Notre Dame into the list is laughable.

See the subtle difference between my point and yours is that I am accounting for injuries, circumstance, unlucky bounces, etc. I am still giving MSU the benefit of the doubt but simply pointing out that looking back, we may have been closer to the team that squeaked by Oregon than the team that dominated OSU for 4 quarters when you factor out the intangibles.

We still get credit for gutting out the wins in my world, but we may just not be top 5 in terms of overall talent.

"Add Stanford , Ohio State "

Honestly, by adding the OSU game, one where we won using second and third stringers at Ohio State, do you think we can actually have a rational conversation with this person.

Please, I'll put you on the committee. Anyone stand up and take MSU's resume and place it up there with any of the schools chosen, and any not chosen for the playoffs. Tell me as a committee member why you're keeping MSU off the list, and also, do you think that you'd get laughed out of the debate if you said "Cause they're lucky". Or "Cause they don't meet my eye test.

Here's how you get to the playoffs. You beat 4 top 15 teams, you beat two of them at their place, and you beat a top 5 team at their place using back up QB's. You cannot keep that team out. Impossible.

So, now we'll hear the Michigan narrative of this team and program not being "elite". We'll hear them ignore what happened to Bama and FSU in last years first round. (FSU way more embarrassing than MSU this year). And we'll hear it from little weasel walmart wolverines on the radio and in this forum. Not surprised.

DWags wrote:"Add Stanford , Ohio State "

Honestly, by adding the OSU game, one where we won using second and third stringers at Ohio State, do you think we can actually have a rational conversation with this person.

Please, I'll put you on the committee.  Anyone stand up and take MSU's resume and place it up there with any of the schools chosen, and any not chosen for the playoffs.  Tell me as a committee member why you're keeping MSU off the list, and also, do you think that you'd get laughed out of the debate if you said "Cause they're lucky".   Or "Cause they don't meet my eye test.  

Here's how you get to the playoffs.  You beat 4 top 15 teams, you beat two of them at their place, and you beat a top 5 team at their place using back up QB's.   You cannot keep that team out.  Impossible.

So, now we'll hear the Michigan narrative of this team and program not being "elite".  We'll hear them ignore what happened to Bama and FSU in last years first round.  (FSU way more embarrassing than MSU this year).  And we'll hear it from little weasel walmart wolverines on the radio and in this forum.   Not surprised.  

I just know that we beat SCum and, because of that, I can rest easier at night and my family can take a big, Red Cedar sigh of relief.

GO GREEN!!!

"I think we're the second best team in the Big 10.."

I can tell we're the second best team because we won the championship. It's really not that hard to figure out. We're second best because we're the champs.

SeeRockCity wrote:

The_Dude wrote:

Add Stanford , Ohio State and possibly ND/Houston. Any team really that has an explosive passing game would have a good shot to beat us. The B1G just had horrific offenses this year...and arguably the best offense we played in Nebraska beat us...even though OSU has a better offense the game was played in a cold monsoon to negate that.

MSU just wasn't really a complete team this year and our offense just never really hit its stride.

The lack of playmakers on offense showed against Iowa who isnt that good but we won so we ignored it. And special teams have been an utter disaster all year.

No, not adding anyone to the list except maybe Stanford. We beat OSU. Lumping Houston and Notre Dame into the list is laughable.

See the subtle difference between my point and yours is that I am accounting for injuries, circumstance, unlucky bounces, etc. I am still giving MSU the benefit of the doubt but simply pointing out that looking back, we may have been closer to the team that squeaked by Oregon than the team that dominated OSU for 4 quarters when you factor out the intangibles.

We still get credit for gutting out the wins in my world, but we may just not be top 5 in terms of overall talent.

Any team with a good passing game would have had a good shot to beat us. The B1G just had pathetic passing teams. We played one good passing team in conference and lost. the other, OSU, was played in a monsoon with no passing.

I think NDs passing game would have smoked us. Ditto with Houston. And we weren't really putting up points at will on offense.

ND has a 2 point loss to Clemson and 1 pint loss to Stanford on the road. They lost to an elite Ohio State team in their bowl game but they were decimated with injuries.

So yeah...I put ND on the list. MSU simply couldn't stop a team that could throw the ball this past year and with special teams being so bad...it puts you behind the 8 ball before the game even starts.

DWags wrote:"I think we're the second best team in the Big 10.."

I can tell we're the second best team because we won the championship. It's really not that hard to figure out. We're second best because we're the champs.

Bobby Sak wrote:that doesn't mean I'm taking my Big 10 Champs t-shirt, sweatshirt, golf shirt, workout shirt, slippers, shot glasses, pint glasses, eye glasses, boxers, box cutter, can openers, neckties, twist ties, laundry detergent, staple remover and stainless steel spatula back, however.

stop by sometime and I'll let you test drive my Big Ten champ riding lawn mower that I have pre-ordered just in time for spring.

GO GREEN!!

Does the Dude realize that OSU was the 12th rated passing team in our league? That their bread and butter was the run? Or, is he just spewing the narative that "we were lucky to win at OSU cause rain and pass". Even though OSU was 12th in our conference in passing.

DWags wrote:Does the Dude realize that OSU was the 12th rated passing team in our league? That their bread and butter was the run? Or, is he just spewing the narative that "we were lucky to win at OSU cause rain and pass". Even though OSU was 12th in our conference in passing.

I'm guessing there is probably a thread on mgoblow that has all of these 'truths'.

The_Dude wrote:

SeeRockCity wrote:

No, not adding anyone to the list except maybe Stanford. We beat OSU. Lumping Houston and Notre Dame into the list is laughable.

See the subtle difference between my point and yours is that I am accounting for injuries, circumstance, unlucky bounces, etc. I am still giving MSU the benefit of the doubt but simply pointing out that looking back, we may have been closer to the team that squeaked by Oregon than the team that dominated OSU for 4 quarters when you factor out the intangibles.

We still get credit for gutting out the wins in my world, but we may just not be top 5 in terms of overall talent.

Any team with a good passing game would have had a good shot to beat us. The B1G just had pathetic passing teams. We played one good passing team in conference and lost. the other, OSU, was played in a monsoon with no passing.

I think NDs passing game would have smoked us. Ditto with Houston. And we weren't really putting up points at will on offense.

ND has a 2 point loss to Clemson and 1 pint loss to Stanford on the road. They lost to an elite Ohio State team in their bowl game but they were decimated with injuries.

So yeah...I put ND on the list. MSU simply couldn't stop a team that could throw the ball this past year and with special teams being so bad...it puts you behind the 8 ball before the game even starts.

In respect to conference play and passing games, Indiana was ranked ahead of Nebraska. MSU beat Indiana. As for the schedule as a whole, Both CMU and WMU were ranked ahead of Nebraska. Notre Dame was ranked behind Nebraska

SeeRockCity wrote:

InTenSity wrote:
MSU is a top 5 team.

Subjectively, no. Objectively through on-field results, yes.

Even though I'm one of the biggest sunshine optimists in this joint, this team never convinced me that we had an elite squad in any facet of the game and could not put games away when they had the chance. And yes, I'm aware of the injuries, and Tressel Ball and all that. Now that bowl results are in, the B1G was soft.

Getting beat by Nebraska in retrospect with new data is now longer as much of an anomaly as it first appeared.

I don't think we beat Ole Miss, Oklahoma, Clemson on a neutral field.

Sorry, but that's just what I think.

I agree. I think there are several other teams outside the top 4 that would give us trouble, especially teams with an elite passing offense.

DWags wrote:Does the Dude realize that OSU was the 12th rated passing team in our league? That their bread and butter was the run? Or, is he just spewing the narative that "we were lucky to win at OSU cause rain and pass". Even though OSU was 12th in our conference in passing.

OSU was ranked 96th in the country. Between perennial powerhouses Louisiana Monroe and UTEP.

"OSU was ranked 96th in the country. Between perennial powerhouses Louisiana Monroe and UTEP."

Had it not rained that day at Columbus, they would have put up 953 yards and been ranked the number one passing team in the country. MSU was lucky.

Respectfully,

The Dude.

The_Dude wrote:

Giant Moose wrote:Saban simply owned our coaches. Sure, their talent is better overall but when you get whipped like we did there, you have to question the game plan. It's the same in hoops when Coach K beats Izzo by 20.

I'm happy that we're one of the handful of great schools in both sports, but it sure would be nice to be more competitive in the Final Four of one of those sports.

Arguably MSU really shouldn't have been in the final four in either sport...but we earned it by winning games.

True. I say next year no games should be played in either sport. Just put the top four preseason teams in the playoff/final four.

Games are stupid.

For anyone thinking that these teams with good passing numbers would give us a game, that's fine. But please tell me they have a defensive line like Bama. Tell me they'd be able to keep MSU from shoving it up their ass, shortening the game and winning like we did multiple times. "A good passing game" doesn't beat MSU. You better combine it with a good defense and a great defensive line. It's like you're saying these teams would have OSU's defense and thier "good passing game". There are two parts to football. Offense and Defense. MSU played both.

DWags wrote:"OSU was ranked 96th in the country. Between perennial powerhouses Louisiana Monroe and UTEP."

Had it not rained that day at Columbus, they would have put up 953 yards and been ranked the number one passing team in the country. MSU was lucky.

Respectfully,

The Dude.

I think everyone forgot that OSU didn't have Smith this year and their passing game was awful without a NFL WR.

I said before the game that Bama would be the best team and coaching staff we played all year (Not really a great revelation).

The game came down to 5-6 big plays. Bama's talent made all of them possible. It's silly to look at the game (and those plays) and say we got out coached. They had better players on the line of scrimmage.

NigelUno wrote:I said before the game that Bama would be the best team and coaching staff we played all year (Not really a great revelation).

The game came down to 5-6 big plays. Bama's talent made all of them possible. It's silly to look at the game (and those plays) and say we got out coached. They had better players on the line of scrimmage.

I just wish MSU would have ran a double-reverse with Terry 3-5 times.

Turtleneck wrote:

NigelUno wrote:I said before the game that Bama would be the best team and coaching staff we played all year (Not really a great revelation).

The game came down to 5-6 big plays. Bama's talent made all of them possible. It's silly to look at the game (and those plays) and say we got out coached. They had better players on the line of scrimmage.

I just wish MSU would have ran a double-reverse with Terry 3-5 times.

With one of them being a double reverse option pass.

NigelUno wrote:I said before the game that Bama would be the best team and coaching staff we played all year (Not really a great revelation).

The game came down to 5-6 big plays. Bama's talent made all of them possible. It's silly to look at the game (and those plays) and say we got out coached. They had better players on the line of scrimmage.

what is your favorite piece of Big Ten champ memorabilia?

I still don't think there is a big talent gap. We're you guys watching the same game I was?

Rocinante wrote:I still don't think there is a big talent gap. We're you guys watching the same game I was?

I posted a question for you in tBin.

Turtleneck wrote:

NigelUno wrote:I said before the game that Bama would be the best team and coaching staff we played all year (Not really a great revelation).

The game came down to 5-6 big plays. Bama's talent made all of them possible. It's silly to look at the game (and those plays) and say we got out coached. They had better players on the line of scrimmage.

I just wish MSU would have ran a double-reverse with Terry 3-5 times.

Nonsense. Should have started the 3rd string QB and gone spread all day.

Cook could have signal the plays in.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

NigelUno wrote:I said before the game that Bama would be the best team and coaching staff we played all year (Not really a great revelation).

The game came down to 5-6 big plays. Bama's talent made all of them possible. It's silly to look at the game (and those plays) and say we got out coached. They had better players on the line of scrimmage.

what is your favorite piece of Big Ten champ memorabilia?

I don't really buy stuff like that. Got the kid a Nike jacket in Dallas though.

NigelUno wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:what is your favorite piece of Big Ten champ memorabilia?

I don't really buy stuff like that. Got the kid a Nike jacket in Dallas though.

Is the kid OTPT?

NigelUno wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:what is your favorite piece of Big Ten champ memorabilia?

I don't really buy stuff like that. Got the kid a Nike jacket in Dallas though.

I'll let you wear some of my hand-me-downs.

We should all burn our Cotton Bowl/CFP merchandise on Bob's lawn tonight.

Giant Moose wrote:We should all burn our Cotton Bowl/CFP merchandise on Bob's lawn tonight.

I didn't buy any, anything on sale yet? Figured once it was over the shit would be like half off.

Giant Moose wrote:We should all burn our Cotton Bowl/CFP merchandise on Bob's lawn tonight.

just do so before 8:30 or so 'cause I go to bed around 9:00. I don't want a bunch of bright, fiery light shining through the window keeping me awake.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Giant Moose wrote:We should all burn our Cotton Bowl/CFP merchandise on Bob's lawn tonight.

just do so before 8:30 or so 'cause I go to bed around 9:00. I don't want a bunch of bright, fiery light shining through the window keeping me awake.

Sorry, it might take well into the night. We'll have to sort our January 1, 2015 Cotton Bowl merchandise from our December 31, 2015 Cotton Bowl merchandise. It gets confusing because both say 2015 Cotton Bowl. We only want the gear that makes us feel like winners. The rest can burn.

Giant Moose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:just do so before 8:30 or so 'cause I go to bed around 9:00. I don't want a bunch of bright, fiery light shining through the window keeping me awake.

Sorry, it might take well into the night. We'll have to sort our January 1, 2015 Cotton Bowl merchandise from our December 31, 2015 Cotton Bowl merchandise. It gets confusing because both say 2015 Cotton Bowl. We only want the gear that makes us feel like winners. The rest can burn.

Spartans are always winners in my book.. I don't care what the officials, Delaney, ESPN, Sports Illustrated, the Blue Wall, etc. has to say.