BOIL WATER ALERT for EL and Meridian

tGreenWay wrote:This is just fucking great. I always down a glass of water before bed and another first thing in the morning. As if I don't poop enough as it is.

LooseGoose wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:This is just fucking great. I always down a glass of water before bed and another first thing in the morning. As if I don't poop enough as it is.

So you're disappointed you won't have raw water?? ;-)

LooseGoose wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:This is just fucking great. I always down a glass of water before bed and another first thing in the morning. As if I don't poop enough as it is.

So you're disappointed you won't have raw water?? ;-)

Gomer wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

So you're disappointed you won't have raw water?? ;-)

The water being raw is exactly the problem.

I'm surprised that the raw milk types aren't drinking raw water straight out of the river.

LooseGoose wrote:

Gomer wrote:
The water being raw is exactly the problem.

I'm surprised that the raw milk types aren't drinking raw water straight out of the river.

Gomes? People piss in the river upstream of me. People don't piss into a cow's udder.

Does that 'splain it to you so you can understand?

tGreenWay wrote:I always stock a couple cases of bottled water for just this type of issue. I'll be good. It's just a hassle. If it goes on for more than a day, I'll grab the mutt and hit up a hotel on the west side.

tGreenWay wrote:This is just fucking great. I always down a glass of water before bed and another first thing in the morning. As if I don't poop enough as it is.

NigelUno wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:I always stock a couple cases of bottled water for just this type of issue. I'll be good. It's just a hassle. If it goes on for more than a day, I'll grab the mutt and hit up a hotel on the west side.

It's a hassle to get bottled water out of the fridge?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:pretty sure I've drank about 64 oz of East Lansing water either via the tap in our palatial estate or via local coffee establishments since last night.

I'm still alive and kicking. Though I do feel a nap coming on. Please keep me in your thoughts and prayers.

tGreenWay wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

It's a hassle to get bottled water out of the fridge?

Yes. Cooking with it. Brushing my teeth with it. Switching out the dog's water. I ran the dishwasher this morning, so that will have to be redone. Can I water the vegetables? Probably the tomatoes, as long as the water stays at the roots and doesn't touch the fruit. Can't water the beans, because there are so many hanging low it's impossible not to get water all over them. Then there's all the times I touch other things (e.g., compost, my dog's butthole, et al) where I need to wash my hands. Do I then have to use Purell, because I touch my hand to my mouth sometimes without thinking when I'm focused on work. And all that's just stuff that comes to mind right now. I'm certain I'll come across other situations over the weekend.

So yes, it's a hassle. A big hassle. Anyone who doesn't think so is being argumentative for the sake of argument. Is that you?

NigelUno wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:

Yes. Cooking with it. Brushing my teeth with it. Switching out the dog's water. I ran the dishwasher this morning, so that will have to be redone. Can I water the vegetables? Probably the tomatoes, as long as the water stays at the roots and doesn't touch the fruit. Can't water the beans, because there are so many hanging low it's impossible not to get water all over them. Then there's all the times I touch other things (e.g., compost, my dog's butthole, et al) where I need to wash my hands. Do I then have to use Purell, because I touch my hand to my mouth sometimes without thinking when I'm focused on work. And all that's just stuff that comes to mind right now. I'm certain I'll come across other situations over the weekend.

So yes, it's a hassle. A big hassle. Anyone who doesn't think so is being argumentative for the sake of argument. Is that you?

Caterpillars have been pooping on your beans for weeks.

tGreenWay wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Caterpillars have been pooping on your beans for weeks.

And birds shitting on them. I know. My city wife, on the other hand, doesn't, and there's nothing I can do to convince her otherwise. I spent three-four days a week on a dairy farm as a kid, but the only farm she's ever been to is Maynard's Pumpkin Farm.

Blanch32 wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:This is just fucking great. I always down a glass of water before bed and another first thing in the morning. As if I don't poop enough as it is.

The Dowager Lady Margret, Countess and Prefict of Northumbria

tGreenWay wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

It's a hassle to get bottled water out of the fridge?

Yes. Cooking with it. Brushing my teeth with it. Switching out the dog's water. I ran the dishwasher this morning, so that will have to be redone. Can I water the vegetables? Probably the tomatoes, as long as the water stays at the roots and doesn't touch the fruit. Can't water the beans, because there are so many hanging low it's impossible not to get water all over them. Then there's all the times I touch other things (e.g., compost, my dog's butthole, et al) where I need to wash my hands. Do I then have to use Purell, because I touch my hand to my mouth sometimes without thinking when I'm focused on work. And all that's just stuff that comes to mind right now. I'm certain I'll come across other situations over the weekend.

So yes, it's a hassle. A big hassle. Anyone who doesn't think so is being argumentative for the sake of argument. Is that you?

Death Roe wrote:Blanch with yet another zinger. Did that hurt, Greenway? Do you need some ice for that sick burn?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:pretty sure I've drank about 64 oz of East Lansing water either via the tap in our palatial estate or via local coffee establishments since last night.

I'm still alive and kicking. Though I do feel a nap coming on. Please keep me in your thoughts and prayers.

Tim Wakefield wrote:BWL customers are supposedly good to go. I don't trust them so I'll just keep drinking Keystone Light instead of water like i've been doing all day

tGreenWay wrote:

Tim Wakefield wrote:BWL customers are supposedly good to go. I don't trust them so I'll just keep drinking Keystone Light instead of water like i've been doing all day

??? EL and Meridian have their own water. It's not BWL water.

Blanch32 wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:

Yes. Cooking with it. Brushing my teeth with it. Switching out the dog's water. I ran the dishwasher this morning, so that will have to be redone. Can I water the vegetables? Probably the tomatoes, as long as the water stays at the roots and doesn't touch the fruit. Can't water the beans, because there are so many hanging low it's impossible not to get water all over them. Then there's all the times I touch other things (e.g., compost, my dog's butthole, et al) where I need to wash my hands. Do I then have to use Purell, because I touch my hand to my mouth sometimes without thinking when I'm focused on work. And all that's just stuff that comes to mind right now. I'm certain I'll come across other situations over the weekend.

So yes, it's a hassle. A big hassle. Anyone who doesn't think so is being argumentative for the sake of argument. Is that you?

PurE Michigan

Tim Wakefield wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:

??? EL and Meridian have their own water. It's not BWL water.

I don't know how it works.

Death Roe wrote:Blanch with yet another zinger. Did that hurt, Greenway? Do you need some ice for that sick burn?

LooseGoose wrote:

Gomer wrote:
The water being raw is exactly the problem.

I'm surprised that the raw milk types aren't drinking raw water straight out of the river.

Gomes? People piss in the river upstream of me. People don't piss into a cow's udder.

Does that 'splain it to you so you can understand?

Gomer wrote:Science. It's powerful stuff!

tGreenWay wrote:

Blanch32 wrote:

PurE Michigan

It must be comforting to live in such a flawless state like North Carolinaaaahhh, wait a minute....

http://www.wral.com/boil-water-advisory-issued-for-eastover-community-in-cumberland-county/15899843/

Oops.

LooseGoose wrote:

Gomer wrote:Science.  It's powerful stuff!

It is.  I'm still waiting for you to use science to explain to me how shit takes two turns while defying gravity to fly upward at a cow's udder.

Gomer wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

It is.  I'm still waiting for you to use science to explain to me how shit takes two turns while defying gravity to fly upward at a cow's udder.

Shit falls on the ground.  Cows lie on the ground.  With brains comparable to yours, cows don't know any better than to coat themselves with their own shit by laying in it.  Shit is all over their butthole.  Cows move about in the rain.  Gravity (magical stuff) causes shit laden contaminated water to run all over the stuff downhill of the asshole.  

Raw cow milk has measurable potential to harbor deadly disease.  This is not a matter of controversy.  It is settled science and has been for over 100 years.

Here is something from the MSU Extension to explain it to you:
Milk Pasteurization: Guarding Against Disease
Milk Pasteurization: Guarding against disease

Here again is a video showing shit all over a cow:
https://youtu.be/8xXvruUFEl0?t=3m8s

Gomer wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

It is.  I'm still waiting for you to use science to explain to me how shit takes two turns while defying gravity to fly upward at a cow's udder.

Shit falls on the ground.  Cows lie on the ground.  With brains comparable to yours, cows don't know any better than to coat themselves with their own shit by laying in it.  Shit is all over their butthole.  Cows move about in the rain.  Gravity (magical stuff) causes shit laden contaminated water to run all over the stuff downhill of the asshole.  

Raw cow milk has measurable potential to harbor deadly disease.  This is not a matter of controversy.  It is settled science and has been for over 100 years.

Here is something from the MSU Extension to explain it to you:
Milk Pasteurization: Guarding Against Disease
Milk Pasteurization: Guarding against disease

Here again is a video showing shit all over a cow:
https://youtu.be/8xXvruUFEl0?t=3m8s

LooseGoose wrote:

Gomer wrote:
Shit falls on the ground.  Cows lie on the ground.  With brains comparable to yours, cows don't know any better than to coat themselves with their own shit by laying in it.  Shit is all over their butthole.  Cows move about in the rain.  Gravity (magical stuff) causes shit laden contaminated water to run all over the stuff downhill of the asshole.  That is why is practically impossible to sterilize a teat in a barn.  If you were covered in cow shit would you just want the doctor to give you a wipe down with the towel he wiped the shit off of 50 other people with prior to doing surgery on you?  I didn't think so.

Raw cow milk has measurable potential to harbor deadly disease.  This is not a matter of controversy.  It is settled science and has been for over 100 years.

Here is something from the MSU Extension to explain it to you:
Milk Pasteurization: Guarding Against Disease
Milk Pasteurization: Guarding against disease

Here again is a video showing shit all over a cow:
https://youtu.be/8xXvruUFEl0?t=3m8s

Progress.   I'm happy to see you've abandoned your anti-science "downstream theory" of shit hitting the udder.

Next you need to drop the notion that cows get milked when covered in shit.  You do realize that farms have to have good bacteria results on each tank of milk they ship or they get shut down?   Obviously none of them want to lose their income so they're not milking cows like you're showing.   Beyond that if you buy milk from a farmer directly and you're buying from a farm that the cows are coated in layers of shit then you're a good candidate for Darwin anyway.

Outbreak of C. jejuni in Utah linked to raw milk consumption

An outbreak of Campylobacter jejuni that sickened dozens of people in Utah showed that state-mandated routine testing does not guarantee the safety of raw milk, according to the CDC and local researchers.

An estimated 3% of the United States population drinks raw milk, preferring it to pasteurized milk partly due to its perceived health benefits, researchers noted in their study published in MMWR. They warned, however, “Consumers should be educated that raw milk might be unsafe even if it meets routine testing standards.”

Overall, researchers from the CDC and local health departments linked 99 cases of C. jejuni to consumption of raw milk from a dairy in Weber County, Utah, between May 9 and Nov. 6, 2014. Ten patients were hospitalized, and one died of multisystem organ failure related, in part, to gastroenteritis and underlying medical conditions, according to the researchers. The median age of the patients was 23 years; 32% of the patients were Hispanic.

Farms in Utah wishing to sell raw milk to consumers must have a permit issued by the Utah Department of Agriculture and Food (UDAF) and must submit monthly milk samples to the UDAF for somatic cell and coliform counts to test for contamination. However, routine somatic cell and coliform counts do not ensure the safety of raw milk, the researchers warned.

In fact, test results submitted by the Weber County dairy at the center of the investigation were within acceptable levels before the identification of the C. jejuni cluster. The farm passed three UDAF inspections in June and July 2014 — one routine inspection that occurred before the outbreak was identified, and two outbreak-related inspections.

The dairy continued to sell raw milk after passing the inspections and after tests on its milk failed to detect any pathogens. However, cases of C. jejuni continued to be identified, leading to an enhanced testing effort by the UDAF, the Utah Department of Health (UDOH) and the Utah Public Health Laboratory (UPHL). UDAF and UPHL scientists both isolated C. jejuni after a milk sample was neutralized and cultured using sheep blood agar.



and:

Among patients who were interviewed, 53 reported drinking raw milk. Fifty two of those people drank raw milk obtained from dairy A. Those numbers were confirmed by dairy A’s raw milk sales ledger. Among 41 patients with no known raw milk consumption, 21, or 51%, reported eating queso fresco, a Mexican-style cheese.

Finding the bacteria at the dairy proved difficult. The dairy was allowed to continue the sales of raw milk after this outbreak was identified, since it passed inspections in July and July 2014 with no critical violations. No pathogens were detected in the samples collected during those inspections. But pathogenic bacteria often easily elude detection because they tend to clump together in very small numbers, and there may be too few bacteria to be detected by culturing, even there are enough bacteria present in the milk to make someone sick.  Unless every milliliter of milk is tested, there is no way to ensure that the milk is free of pathogens. Other than pasteurization.

The outbreak continued to increase. On July 29, 2014, representatives from all three Utah health and agriculture departments conducted a collaborative investigation at dairy A. The raw milk bulk tank was agitated, and a UDAF inspection collected a 1-liter sample or raw milk. This milk was cultured and Campylobacter jejuni was finally isolated in the product. This bacteria had the same PFGE pattern identified in specimens from the first three patients. In addition, 55 of the 56 isolates collected from patients sickened in this outbreak produced indistinguishable PFGE patterns, which identifies the DNA of bacteria.

On August 4, 2014, UDAF suspended dairy A’s permit to sell raw milk. The dairy’s permit to sell raw milk was reinstated on October 1, 2014, but then seven more cases of Campylobacter infections were identified. On December 1, 2014, UDAF permanently revoked dairy A’s raw milk sales permit.

About 3% of the U.S. population drinks raw milk, in part because of perceived health benefits. But this product is often contaminated with pathogenic bacteria. Campylobacter is ubiquitous in the environment, and is very difficult to culture from milk since it is so fragile. In addition, the report states “routine testing of and standards for raw milk do not ensure that the raw milk is free of pathogens. There is a lack of correlation between bacterial counts and the presence of pathogens in raw milk.

A paper published in Nutrition and Food Science at the University of Wisconsin in 2015 states, “just before World War II, in 1938, it was estimated that milkborne outbreaks constituted 25% of all disease outbreaks (related to food/water) in the United States. Today, with the widespread use of pasteurization and other sanitation procedures outlined in the Grade A Pasteurized Milk Ordinance, milk and fluid milk products account for less than 1% of reported outbreaks caused by food/water consumption.”

The report ends with this statement,

“consumers should be aware of dangers associated with consuming unpasteurized milk. Current raw milk testing standards do not readily detect contamination; thus, the safest alternative is to consume pasteurized milk.”

https://foodpoisoningbulletin.com/2016/campylobacter-outbreak-and-raw-milk-consumption-in-utah-2014/

The dairy’s permit to sell raw milk was suspended by the UDAF on Aug. 4, 2014, and the public was informed about the outbreak in a news release 22 days later, which led to the identification of one additional probable case, according to the researchers. The UDAF reinstated the dairy’s permit to sell raw milk on Oct. 1, 2014, but it was permanently revoked 2 months later after seven additional cases of C. jejuni infection were identified. No cases matching the outbreak pattern have been reported since Feb. 19, 2015.

Campylobacter is “ubiquitous” in farm environments but is difficult to detect in milk, the researchers noted. They recommended drinking pasteurized milk as a safe alternative.

They said mandatory reporting, timely sample collection, pathogen testing and on-site milk neutralization likely led to the detection of C. jejuni during the Utah outbreak.

“Specific pathogen testing for raw milk, in addition to somatic cell and coliform counts, might more readily detect contaminated raw milk,” they wrote. “PFGE patterns linking human isolates from Campylobacter cases with raw milk from dairy A provided evidence that led to implementation of control measures.” – by Gerard Gallagher

Gomer wrote:
No.  The downstream theory is alive and well.  Some farmers spray the udders to clean them prior to milking.   If the udders stuck up from the top of the cow, we might not have these problems.

And I don't need to drop the notion.  This video: https://youtu.be/8xXvruUFEl0?t=3m8s shows a typical dirty cow and all the steps needed to clean the teat prior to milking.  That is not a notion.  That is day in and day out.  This video also shows how tedious it is, and that they utilize a treatment of iodine provide some limited sterilization.  Every step has to be done precisely, and adds time to the process so it must all be done quickly as well.  Those two things are opposed from one another.  Which one will suffer when there are a couple hundred head of cows to be milked?

LooseGoose wrote:

Gomer wrote:
No.  The downstream theory is alive and well.  Some farmers spray the udders to clean them prior to milking.   If the udders stuck up from the top of the cow, we might not have these problems.

And I don't need to drop the notion.  This video: https://youtu.be/8xXvruUFEl0?t=3m8s shows a typical dirty cow and all the steps needed to clean the teat prior to milking.  That is not a notion.  That is day in and day out.  This video also shows how tedious it is, and that they utilize a treatment of iodine provide some limited sterilization.  Every step has to be done precisely, and adds time to the process so it must all be done quickly as well.  Those two things are opposed from one another.  Which one will suffer when there are a couple hundred head of cows to be milked?

lol, as I've said before you're the dangerous idiot type. A little knowledge from Youtube and you're a dairy expert. A couple hundred head to be milked? You say that as if it's a big job. And somehow speeding it up by cutting corners on sanitation is OK - again that farm would be shut off in days.

But as usual you're conflating 2 things here - If you're out buying milk directly from the farm for your family you can look at how the cows are treated and make a judgement. If you see cows that are dirtier than you're comfortable with you simply don't buy milk. Wow, wasn't that hard? That's the whole key to getting closer to your food supply - YOU make the decision what and where to buy rather than rely on others to do that for you. I'm sorry you feel too helpless to fend for yourself.