The Russians and the 2016 Election PT II

Thank you king sheep

LooseGoose wrote:

Goose?

I get that a lot of Americans are over looking the fact that when the Russians hacked the emails they exposed how corrupt the Clinton campaign was in stealing the nomination from Bernie and frankly I wish arrests could be made. I get that part and I wonder why there isn't a big shit storm being created.

However, my neighbor who is a cop (he is and he's a walvarine) saw me through a window and thought he saw me doing a line of blow and because he doesn't like my Spartan-ness calls two of his friends on patrol and they just bust into my house with no warrent, find out I have an un registered gun (I might) and my wife has a bit of weed (she might) so they arrest me.

Does that hold up in court? Would you be good with it?

I can't emphasize enough how much of a scum bag I think Hilliary was. How I know she manipulated the party for the nomination. And the party was just as guilty. Fuck her. You also know I believe we have elected the worst human being in America. He has zero morals or character he is a sexual predator and is driven by money and fame.

Here's what I believe your side is over looking with minimum outrage. The FUCKING RUSSIANS BROKE IN AND HAD A HAND IN TRYING TO EFFECT (affect?) OUR ELECTION. The.... Russians. ... Fucking Putin.

What's more important? The cops got my illegal gun my wife's wee and arrest us? Or our rights as a country? What's more important going forward in elections? Corruption from within (like my wife and I ) or a foreign country influencing elections and I don't care if they swayed three voters. A foreign country hostile to us and who never had our best interest in mind. The...Russians ...

"Trust but verify" is as close as the Gipper could ever get to those bastards. Now we have people here saying "well let's give them a shot". They are missing the big picture in my mind. They are missing it big time

LooseGoose wrote:

this. libs still in strong denial. if only the us never interfered with any other countries political process

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Goose?

I get that a lot of Americans are over looking the fact that when the Russians hacked the emails they exposed how corrupt the Clinton campaign was in stealing the nomination from Bernie and frankly I wish arrests could be made. I get that part and I wonder why there isn't a big shit storm being created.

However, my neighbor who is a cop (he is and he's a walvarine) saw me through a window and thought he saw me doing a line of blow and because he doesn't like my Spartan-ness calls two of his friends on patrol and they just bust into my house with no warrent, find out I have an un registered gun (I might) and my wife has a bit of weed (she might) so they arrest me.

Does that hold up in court? Would you be good with it?

I can't emphasize enough how much of a scum bag I think Hilliary was. How I know she manipulated the party for the nomination. And the party was just as guilty. Fuck her. You also know I believe we have elected the worst human being in America. He has zero morals or character he is a sexual predator and is driven by money and fame.

Here's what I believe your side is over looking with minimum outrage. The FUCKING RUSSIANS BROKE IN AND HAD A HAND IN TRYING TO EFFECT (affect?) OUR ELECTION. The.... Russians. ... Fucking Putin.

What's more important? The cops got my illegal gun my wife's wee and arrest us? Or our rights as a country? What's more important going forward in elections? Corruption from within (like my wife and I ) or a foreign country influencing elections and I don't care if they swayed three voters. A foreign country hostile to us and who never had our best interest in mind. The...Russians ...

"Trust but verify" is as close as the hipped could ever get to those bastards. Now we have people here saying "well let's give them a shot". They are missing the big picture in my mind. They are missing it big time

hillary got arrested over the leaked emails?? awesome!!

....and thanks for the compliment. i would be a better president to you than trump, wouldn't i dwags?

DWags wrote:Here's what I believe your side is over looking with minimum outrage. The FUCKING RUSSIANS BROKE IN AND HAD A HAND IN TRYING TO EFFECT (affect?) OUR ELECTION. The.... Russians. ... Fucking Putin.

What's more important? The cops got my illegal gun my wife's wee and arrest us? Or our rights as a country? What's more important going forward in elections? Corruption from within (like my wife and I ) or a foreign country influencing elections and I don't care if they swayed three voters. A foreign country hostile to us and who never had our best interest in mind. The...Russians ...

I get that you're upset over that. Maybe I should be more upset, polls show that the Comey announcements and the deplorables comment had had a larger effect. We'll never know.

What I guess i don't understand is why we're not outraged at our government blatantly doing the same thing.

What right do we have to be outraged at the Russians trying to influence our elections when we engage in the exact same behavior overseas?

Do i think Russian hacks that resulted in leaks helped the constant flow of negative news about Clinton?  Yes.

The thing that continues to disappoint is how self indentified conservatives and members of the GOP want to soft peddle the issue of Russia and its leadership choosing to go after ne candidate while leaving the GOP candidate relatively unscathed.

Its a big deal.  

It appears its okay to lie down and accept it if a candidate you supported or a candidae who vows to eliminate abortion or build a wall wins.

Some of the same folks who told us we needed to fear losing our rghts with an Obama Presidecy are okay with Russian interference via cyber attacks directed at one candidate because it was the candidate they disliked.

Incredible.

And not a peep about the Obama administration engaging in the same behavior overseas.

LooseGoose wrote:And not a peep about the Obama administration engaging in the same behavior overseas.

What ever it takes right Goose. Keep on defending what and Putin did because its okay for them to interfere if the US did it.

I will never understand where your support and justification of Russian hacking and support of Putin comes from unless your dislike of the current administration and Hillary Clinton is greater than I imagined.

I will never justify a foreign power interfering with US elections. Not Russia, not Israel, not Saudia Arabia or China. You evidently thinks its alright.

LooseGoose wrote:And not a peep about the Obama administration engaging in the same behavior overseas.

I'm sure you can provide 20 links showing the Obama administration interfering with elections in Russia. Let's see them.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:And not a peep about the Obama administration engaging in the same behavior overseas.

I'm sure you can provide 20 links showing the Obama administration interfering with elections in Russia. Let's see them.

You said Russia darling, not me. My quote was "overseas" - that includes quite a few other countries.

Here's a start: Obama State Dept: $350K For Campaign Infrastructure Used Against Netanyahu In Israel Election

According to the U.S. Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (PSI), the State Department gave $349,276 in U.S. taxpayer-funded grants to a political group in Israel to build a campaign operation, which subsequently was used to try to influence Israelis to vote against conservative Benjamin Netanyahu in the March 2015 election for prime minister.

In the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations report about the State Department’s action, Chairman Bob Portman (R-Ohio) said, “It is completely unacceptable that U.S. taxpayer dollars were used to build a political campaign infrastructure that was deployed — immediately after the grant ended — against the leader [Netanyahu] of our closest ally in the Middle East. American resources should be used to help our allies in the region, not undermine them.”

GRR Spartan wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:And not a peep about the Obama administration engaging in the same behavior overseas.

What ever it takes right Goose. Keep on defending what and Putin did because its okay for them to interfere if the US did it.

I will never understand where your support and justification of Russian hacking and support of Putin comes from unless your dislike of the current administration and Hillary Clinton is greater than I imagined.

I will never justify a foreign power interfering with US elections. Not Russia, not Israel, not Saudia Arabia or China. You evidently thinks its alright.

You're inserting words into my mouth again - I've not said I support the Russian hacking.

I am continuing to ask what right we have to get so outraged when we engage in the same behavior?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:And not a peep about the Obama administration engaging in the same behavior overseas.

I'm sure you can provide 20 links showing the Obama administration interfering with elections in Russia. Let's see them.

And Brexit:

Obama fails to swing Britain behind EU as 'Out' takes poll lead

Opponents of Britain's European Union membership have edged into the lead over the past two weeks, according to a YouGov poll which indicated President Barack Obama's intervention failed to swing support behind "In" vote in a June 23 referendum.

The online survey for The Times taken on April 25-26 showed support for the Out campaign had risen 3 percentage points to 42 percent since a similar survey on April 12-14, while support for the "In" campaign had risen 1 percentage point to 41 percent.

President Barack Obama on Friday warned Britain would be "in the back of the queue" for a trade deal with the United States if it dropped out of the EU, an unusually strong intervention into British politics that "In" campaigners welcomed.

"Some have portrayed Obama's intervention as backfiring - I wouldn't go that far but this poll does suggest that Obama hasn't given the remain team a boost at all," Anthony Wells, director of political research at YouGov, said by telephone.

So you and GRR think it's OK if we do it but we need to be outraged if Russia does it. That sounds fair minded.

LooseGoose wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:

What ever it takes right Goose. Keep on defending what and Putin did because its okay for them to interfere if the US did it.

I will never understand where your support and justification of Russian hacking and support of Putin comes from unless your dislike of the current administration and Hillary Clinton is greater than I imagined.

I will never justify a foreign power interfering with US elections. Not Russia, not Israel, not Saudia Arabia or China. You evidently thinks its alright.

You're inserting words into my mouth again - I've not said I support the Russian hacking.

I am continuing to ask what right we have to get so outraged when we engage in the same behavior?

Sweet gotcha game. Care to have an honest conversation for once?

You honestly think the stuff you posted is on part with what Russia has been doing?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

You're inserting words into my mouth again - I've not said I support the Russian hacking.

I am continuing to ask what right we have to get so outraged when we engage in the same behavior?

Sweet gotcha game. Care to have an honest conversation for once?

You honestly think the stuff you posted is on part with what Russia has been doing?

Yes, for what we know so far.

So far we "know" they hacked the DNC and released emails cast the DNC in a pretty bad light though even that is in some dispute. What other facts do you have on their hacking?

Bottom line here, is we as a nation have to be very wary of the relationship Trump is creating with Putin.  In a poker game, I'd put my money on Putin.   Hopefully Trump is craftier than he seems.   Russia has never been an ally, even in WWII, "An enemy of my enemy" and that's it.  I don't trust them. I never will.

DWags wrote:Bottom line here, is we as a nation have to be very wary of the relationship Trump is creating with Putin.  In a poker game, I'd put my money on Putin.   Hopefully Trump is craftier than he seems.   Russia has never been an ally, even in WWII, "An enemy of my enemy" and that's it.  I don't trust them. I never will.

I'm not sure Trump is as stupid as some think he is. He also seems to have put some pretty good advisers in place. It's hard to trust the Russians or the Chinese.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Sweet gotcha game. Care to have an honest conversation for once?

You honestly think the stuff you posted is on part with what Russia has been doing?

Yes, for what we know so far.

So far we "know" they hacked the DNC and released emails cast the DNC in a pretty bad light though even that is in some dispute. What other facts do you have on their hacking?

This isn't the same ballpark. Hell, this isn't even the same game compared to the stuff you just mentioned. Unless you have some proof where the administration covertly hacked some other countries private correspondence to undermine their election, I'm done here.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Yes, for what we know so far.

So far we "know" they hacked the DNC and released emails cast the DNC in a pretty bad light though even that is in some dispute. What other facts do you have on their hacking?

This isn't the same ballpark. Hell, this isn't even the same game compared to the stuff you just mentioned. Unless you have some proof where the administration covertly hacked some other countries private correspondence to undermine their election, I'm done here.

IT wasn't government correspondence so I don't get where you're equating it to the country as a whole. It was a political party's correspondence. It showed how corrupt they were. Tough luck.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

This isn't the same ballpark. Hell, this isn't even the same game compared to the stuff you just mentioned. Unless you have some proof where the administration covertly hacked some other countries private correspondence to undermine their election, I'm done here.

IT wasn't government correspondence so I don't get where you're equating it to the country as a whole. It was a political party's correspondence. It showed how corrupt they were. Tough luck.

So nothing then? Didn't think so.

Cameron wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:And not a peep about the Obama administration engaging in the same behavior overseas.

That's a separate issue. If you'd like to discuss it, you're plenty welcome to start your own thread about it. This thread is about the Russian influence on the 2016 US presidential election, not about any other country's influence on any other election. Stay on topic.

It's Goose. This is what he does when he doesn't like what is being talked about.

The Rise of the Alt-Center

On Dec. 11, fueled by prescription amphetamines and craft beer, Eric Garland disgorged a sprawling 127-tweet thread explaining to America and the world exactly what was going on, how Russia put Trump in power, and what they could do about it. And the thing was a sensation.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Thank you king sheep

...says the man agreeing with 90% of the flock in this thread. Self awareness.

Cameron wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:And not a peep about the Obama administration engaging in the same behavior overseas.

That's a separate issue. If you'd like to discuss it, you're plenty welcome to start your own thread about it. This thread is about the Russian influence on the 2016 US presidential election, not about any other country's influence on any other election. Stay on topic.

so we can't discuss the arab spring either? christ we are helping the syria rebels right now despite the cute kids in alleppo.

...and we so are clear, hils didnt lose because of russian. period. just like trump didnt win bc of media

Blanch32 wrote:

Cameron wrote:
That's a separate issue. If you'd like to discuss it, you're plenty welcome to start your own thread about it. This thread is about the Russian influence on the 2016 US presidential election, not about any other country's influence on any other election. Stay on topic.

so we can't discuss the arab spring either? christ we are helping the syria rebels right now despite the cute kids in alleppo.

...and we so are clear, hils didnt lose because of russian. period. just like trump didnt win bc of media

Can we discuss Muhsin Muhammad too? Underrated WR back in the day.

Goose, are you hellbent on being the contrarian on this thread?

It appears you would like everyone to give Putin and Trump the benefit of the doubt (individually and/or collectively) and give them a chance.

I know Putin's history. I know Trump's history and I know enough about the people Trump chose to run his campaign and their subsequent comments i.e.
Kelly Ann Conway's "damage is done" that the Trump campaign had no compunction about using information regardless of the source.

If the new political justification is everybody does it we are in deep shit.

McCain issues ominous warning
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/12/18/john-mccain-unraveling-of-global-order-sotu.cnn

GRR Spartan wrote:Goose, are you hellbent on being the contrarian on this thread?

I enjoy the role of the contrarian/underdog - it's one of the major reasons I went to MSU.

Good to see the Los Angeles Times finally delivering the news to their readers - of course you swillsters read it here first.

The U.S. is no stranger to interfering in the elections of other countries

The CIA has accused Russia of interfering in the 2016 presidential election by hacking into Democratic and Republican computer networks and selectively releasing emails. But critics might point out the U.S. has done similar things.

The U.S. has a long history of attempting to influence presidential elections in other countries – it’s done so as many as 81 times between 1946 and 2000, according to a database amassed by political scientist Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University.

That number doesn’t include military coups and regime change efforts following the election of candidates the U.S. didn’t like, notably those in Iran, Guatemala and Chile. Nor does it include general assistance with the electoral process, such as election monitoring.

Levin defines intervention as “a costly act which is designed to determine the election results [in favor of] one of the two sides.” These acts, carried out in secret two-thirds of the time, include funding the election campaigns of specific parties, disseminating misinformation or propaganda, training locals of only one side in various campaigning or get-out-the-vote techniques, helping one side design their campaign materials, making public pronouncements or threats in favor of or against a candidate, and providing or withdrawing foreign aid.

Lol

Double standards in politics, who knew?

LooseGoose wrote:Good to see the Los Angeles Times finally delivering the news to their readers - of course you swillsters read it here first.

The U.S. is no stranger to interfering in the elections of other countries

The CIA has accused Russia of interfering in the 2016 presidential election by hacking into Democratic and Republican computer networks and selectively releasing emails. But critics might point out the U.S. has done similar things.

The U.S. has a long history of attempting to influence presidential elections in other countries – it’s done so as many as 81 times between 1946 and 2000, according to a database amassed by political scientist Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University.

That number doesn’t include military coups and regime change efforts following the election of candidates the U.S. didn’t like, notably those in Iran, Guatemala and Chile. Nor does it include general assistance with the electoral process, such as election monitoring.

Levin defines intervention as “a costly act which is designed to determine the election results [in favor of] one of the two sides.” These acts, carried out in secret two-thirds of the time, include funding the election campaigns of specific parties, disseminating misinformation or propaganda, training locals of only one side in various campaigning or get-out-the-vote techniques, helping one side design their campaign materials, making public pronouncements or threats in favor of or against a candidate, and providing or withdrawing foreign aid.

Is that the media you trust?

Does it make it ok for the Russians to do it to the US?

Do you find it odd that so many Reagan republicans say "don't worry about the Russians?"

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Good to see the Los Angeles Times finally delivering the news to their readers - of course you swillsters read it here first.

The U.S. is no stranger to interfering in the elections of other countries

Is that the media you trust?

Does it make it ok for the Russians to do it to the US?

Do you find it odd that so many Reagan republicans say "don't worry about the Russians?"

You're not new to politics, right?

Russia dicked with us. Now what? How was the RNC able to fend them off? Maybe we should make ourselves less vulnerable to
hacks?

Besides strong words what are we going to do about it? Everyone knows the USA is all talk under Obama.

Last i checked President Obama was open and directly commented on Brexit.  Putin denied and denies.

I don't pretend to understand some posters support of Russia using an equivalence to Obama and Brexit.  

One was a vote in a country we see as an ally and a NATO member.  The other is an enemy who has supported North Korea, North Viet Nam, China and Cuba at the height of the cold war.  

Everybody does it as a support of ignoring or minimizing Russian involvement is a slippery slope to a political party hooking up with an enemy of the US to win elections.

DWags wrote:Bottom line here, is we as a nation have to be very wary of the relationship Trump is creating with Putin.  In a poker game, I'd put my money on Putin.   Hopefully Trump is craftier than he seems.   Russia has never been an ally, even in WWII, "An enemy of my enemy" and that's it.  I don't trust them. I never will.

Agree, David Frum wrote a great article in the Atlantic he also references poker. Did you read it?

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/12/trump-foreign-policy/511058/

Cameron wrote:

The_Dude wrote:

You're not new to politics, right?

Russia dicked with us. Now what? How was the RNC able to fend them off? Maybe we should make ourselves less vulnerable to
hacks?

Besides strong words what are we going to do about it? Everyone knows the USA is all talk under Obama.

The Democrats definitely need to work on their cyber security and general tech savvy.

True, but lets not put all of the blame the victim. There is also a share of the blame to that goes to the FBI. The way they delivered the info to the DNC was pathetic as well. There were failures all around.

I still think Obama was too understated on all of this. He should have acted in July, and I do accept the Trump campaigns grievances about him trying to delegitimize his victory. There's some truth to that, but still this is the fucking Russians interfering with our sovereignty.

I won't fall for the dog in the manger "delegitimizing" label Trump's people have come up with to contnue ginning up Trump supporters.

He won the election. The Electoral College confirmed it by voting Monday.

The only people crying about an illegitimate Presidency are Trump's spokesmen, conservative talkng heads and people complainng about unhappy Clinton supporters comments.