MSU student dies from apparent heroin OD

by **tGreenWay** 2017-08-18, 15:04

RIP.
http://on.lsj.com/2wgqCFw

by **Floyd Robertson** 2017-08-18, 15:36

Co-worker's niece died that way a couple of years ago and made the heroin epidemic very real for me.

by **tGreenWay** 2017-08-18, 16:01

A couple of people I know, not close friends, have lost daughters. The real eye-opener for me was the daughter of friends we've known for years who has been in and out of rehab. First time I heard she was in treatment, I was crushed. She was an adorable little girl who I first met when she was 3 and I'd bounce her on my knee.

by Stoops21 2017-08-18, 16:48

I did an internship in a probation department years back. Got a nice eye opening of how the drugs tears people down. Once you're hooked it's basically over. Even after intensive rehab for several months the addicts admit it's hard because little things remind them of using.

by **Nordic** 2017-08-18, 17:00

More oxycontin!

by **The Pantry** 2017-08-18, 17:38

I wish Bob would stop selling that stuff

by Senior Dickfist 2017-08-18, 18:04

Always a sad story. I knew of 3 people that I went to high school with who ended up doing heroin shortly after graduation. One committed suicide by cop after robbing a lady for $30, one OD'd in a drug house in Detroit and his body was moved to an abandoned house and not found for a week or so and the other is still clean and hopefully stays that way.

by **Jake from State Farm** 2017-08-18, 20:26

Lost a good friend in high school, a brother in law, and now have a nephew that will more than likely end up the same way. He's been through several stints in rehab. My ex-sister in law found him blue colored lying on the floor and managed to get him back with the help of whatever counteractive drug the police can use now. Brother in law kicked it and then suffered some serious burns that saw him brought back to life three times, the morphine got it's hook into him when he was recuperating. Really effing sad state of affairs all around.

by **Dendrobates** 2017-08-18, 20:38

This stuff is seriously sad to hear. Kids do it once, and it fucks up their life forever. It's very scary, because people from all a backgrounds are affected, and you never think it could be them. It's a big concern for the future.

by **tGreenWay** 2017-08-18, 21:18

Never had any interest sticking a needle in my arm. Did most of what other college students did, minus acid. Shrooms were a personal fav because it was hours of laughter. Heroin? Nope. I just didn't dig downer drugs.

by **tGreenWay** 2017-08-18, 21:37

gHost Spartan wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:Never had any interest sticking a needle in my arm. Did most of what other college students did, minus acid. Shrooms were a personal fav because it was hours of laughter. Heroin? Nope. I just didn't dig downer drugs.
Shrooms and ecstasy are fucking amazing... at least so I heard....

X wasn't around for an old man like me, but shroom trips were always a fun ride. Shroom walks on campus were great.

by **Dendrobates** 2017-08-18, 22:13

gHost Spartan wrote:
Dendrobates wrote:This stuff is seriously sad to hear. Kids do it once, and it fucks up their life forever. It's very scary, because people from all a backgrounds are affected, and you never think it could be them. It's a big concern for the future.
Not necessarily true. There's a lot of people who abuse all kinds of hardcore drugs such as cocaine, crack, meth, heroin, etc., that never get "hooked" or become addicts, who are simply able to use recreationally. In my experience, the very poor and "hopeless" and those with addictive personalities become the junkie types. Many grow out of abusing these types of drugs while there are a lot that are incapable.

I agree with you. But this was about heroin. I may have it misconstrued, but seems to be one of those drugs that most of the time is a one and done. You are hooked forever, vs one of the other drugs. Yes, many of the others are terrible, but my understanding is that heroin is just something that is the worst to come back from.

by **InTenSity** 2017-08-18, 22:23

Dendrobates wrote:
gHost Spartan wrote:
Not necessarily true. There's a lot of people who abuse all kinds of hardcore drugs such as cocaine, crack, meth, heroin, etc., that never get "hooked" or become addicts, who are simply able to use recreationally. In my experience, the very poor and "hopeless" and those with addictive personalities become the junkie types. Many grow out of abusing these types of drugs while there are a lot that are incapable.

I agree with you. But this was about heroin. I may have it misconstrued, but seems to be one of those drugs that most of the time is a one and done. You are hooked forever, vs one of the other drugs. Yes, many of the others are terrible, but my understanding is that heroin is just something that is the worst to come back from.

I think I did it once. It was so strong, that although I liked how it felt at the time, it scared me enough to stay away after. Whatever I did fucked me up more then morphine, but I'm sure the hospital had it limited as to how much I could get. Morphine was awesome.

by Rodeo Burger 2017-08-18, 23:29

gHost Spartan wrote:
Dendrobates wrote:This stuff is seriously sad to hear. Kids do it once, and it fucks up their life forever. It's very scary, because people from all a backgrounds are affected, and you never think it could be them. It's a big concern for the future.
Not necessarily true. There's a lot of people who abuse all kinds of hardcore drugs such as cocaine, crack, meth, heroin, etc., that never get "hooked" or become addicts, who are simply able to use recreationally. In my experience, the very poor and "hopeless" and those with addictive personalities become the junkie types. Many grow out of abusing these types of drugs while there are a lot that are incapable.

Physiology plays a role here. Some people, and even races, are predisposed to addiction, while others are more resistant. Obviously, there are exceptions when it comes to race, but Native Americans are highly susceptible to addiction whereas Israelis are more resistant to it compared to the rest of the Bell Curve.

by **The Pantry** 2017-08-19, 02:07

InTenSity wrote:
Dendrobates wrote:

I agree with you. But this was about heroin. I may have it misconstrued, but seems to be one of those drugs that most of the time is a one and done. You are hooked forever, vs one of the other drugs. Yes, many of the others are terrible, but my understanding is that heroin is just something that is the worst to come back from.
I think I did it once. It was so strong, that although I liked how it felt at the time, it scared me enough to stay away after. Whatever I did fucked me up more then morphine, but I'm sure the hospital had it limited as to how much I could get. Morphine was awesome.

You "think" you did it once? What does that mean?

by **Cameron** 2017-08-19, 11:21

tGreenWay wrote:Never had any interest sticking a needle in my arm. Did most of what other college students did, minus acid. Shrooms were a personal fav because it was hours of laughter. Heroin? Nope. I just didn't dig downer drugs.

Yeah, I'll try lots of things, but I'm out on sticking a needle in myself to get high. I don't need AIDS or hepatitis with my buzz, thanks.

If you like shrooms, you'd probably like acid, too. Assuming what you get is actually LSD, which can be a bit of a gamble.

by **GRR Spartan** 2017-08-19, 12:23

I cannot imagine what this kid's parents or any family goes through when one of their children dies like this.

The last thing on your mind when you are sitting in parent / student orientation or helping move your child into their first off campus apartment is them dying of an overdose.

One of my youngest's HS acquaintances OD'ed at his grandparent's home after they took him in when his parents couldn't tolerate drug paraphernalia in their house with 2 younger siblings after he's been to rehab all before he was 17.

Nice kid, cleaned up when he moved in with the grandparents and looked like your typical 17 year old but he never got away from people who could get him heroin and needles.

by **duffy munn** 2017-08-20, 12:50

gHost Spartan wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:I cannot imagine what this kid's parents or any family goes through when one of their children dies like this.

The last thing on your mind when you are sitting in parent / student orientation or helping move your child into their first off campus apartment is them dying of an overdose.

One of my youngest's HS acquaintances OD'ed at his grandparent's home after they took him in when his parents couldn't tolerate drug paraphernalia in their house with 2 younger siblings after he's been to rehab all before he was 17.

Nice kid, cleaned up when he moved in with the grandparents and looked like your typical 17 year old but he never got away from people who could get him heroin and needles.

I agree, but you also have to be a pretty oblivious parent to NOT know that you're children are experimenting with or "attracted" to drug or alcohol abuse. The signs are everywhere. It's not like some straight laced kid shows up at MSU and suddenly becomes a junkie.

Your views on drug addiction are interesting to say the least.

Anyone can addicted to shit like heroin. I don't care how "straight laced" they are or their economic backround.

As for parents easily seeing the signs, live it and get back to me.

by **GRR Spartan** 2017-08-20, 13:56

duffy munn wrote:
gHost Spartan wrote:

I agree, but you also have to be a pretty oblivious parent to NOT know that you're children are experimenting with or "attracted" to drug or alcohol abuse. The signs are everywhere. It's not like some straight laced kid shows up at MSU and suddenly becomes a junkie.

Your views on drug addiction are interesting to say the least.

Anyone can addicted to shit like heroin. I don't care how "straight laced" they are or their economic backround.

As for parents easily seeing the signs, live it and get back to me.

Pretty much my thought Duffy.

It doesn't matter where you live or where you're from. If anything the advent of cell phones has made it easier for suppliers to follow their customers and the addicts to contact suppliers without having to venture into sketchy areas.

I was fortunate with both my kids. They were needle averse and had their days filled with school and practice but a lot of folks who haven't or don't have teenagers don't realize who much they are out of your sight/control and how much trust is involved.

Hiding a heroin addiction for a 18-22 year old college student is not too difficult until its time for a drug screen for an internship/job and then one can buy clean urine.

by **InTenSity** 2017-08-20, 20:24

The Pantry wrote:
InTenSity wrote:
I think I did it once. It was so strong, that although I liked how it felt at the time, it scared me enough to stay away after. Whatever I did fucked me up more then morphine, but I'm sure the hospital had it limited as to how much I could get. Morphine was awesome.
You "think" you did it once? What does that mean?

I shot up something. I swear it was in pill form, which means it wasn't heroin, but I was told it was heroin, but I was also on shitty acid. It knocked me out for an hour or so. That night is blurry. I never put another needle in my arm after that, unless a nurse put it in.

by **DWags** 2017-08-20, 21:14

[quote="gHost Spartan"]

GRR Spartan wrote:
I agree, but you also have to be a pretty oblivious parent to NOT know that you're children are experimenting with or "attracted" to drug or alcohol abuse. The signs are everywhere. It's not like some straight laced kid shows up at MSU and suddenly becomes a junkie.

Holy shit. Nobody can be this naive. But, then it happens and they say "my god, I didn't know". And on and on.

Daughter lost a close friend. Fellow dancer. They didn't know.

It's scary. The ghosts of the world need to be naive. Then, I just hope they're lucky. They can keep the attitude. I just hope everyone is alright.

by **duffy munn** 2017-08-20, 21:20

gHost Spartan wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Your views on drug addiction are interesting to say the least.

Anyone can addicted to shit like heroin. I don't care how "straight laced" they are or their economic backround.

As for parents easily seeing the signs, live it and get back to me.

Muffy I've sent untold dozens of people to prison for substance abuse related criminal offenses and I've read probably hundreds of substance abuse assessments and psychological evaluations. In many, many of these cases, the person was involved in the juvenile criminal justice system at some point or in some type of rehabilitation as a teen. It would be highly, highly, highly unusual for a kid who maybe drinks beer here and there to suddenly show up at college and start using heroin.

Where are all the drunks? They're gone - drug addicts now because drugs are more prevalent. If heroin or meth or cocaine didn't exist we'd see more drunks. There is always going to be a small percentage of the population with an addictive personality who'll abuse whatever you put in front of them.

I'm sure that you, as a bar owner, have probably seen quite a few MSU students that you knew were going to end up destroying their lives because of their substance abuse issues.

Not all addicts wind up in the system. My post was really more about parents being able to tell their kid is hooked on opiates. That's very easy for you to say.

And, yes, a kid who may have started out having a beer here and there and from a wealthy family can easily graduate from vicodin and OxyContin to heroin. It's 10 time cheaper than the pills and way too easy to get. The opiate crisis is real. And it knows no economic or social boundries.

And I thought you were a public defender? Why were you sending people to jail?

by **duffy munn** 2017-08-20, 21:23

[quote="DWags"]

gHost Spartan wrote:

Holy shit. Nobody can be this naive. But, then it happens and they say "my god, I didn't know". And on and on.

Daughter lost a close friend. Fellow dancer. They didn't know.

It's scary. The ghosts of the world need to be naive. Then, I just hope they're lucky. They can keep the attitude. I just hope everyone is alright.

I've seen this up close and personal as well. Great people from great familes. Parents that never knew until it was too late. And at that point, it's up to the addict to help themselves. Nobody can make them.

by **DWags** 2017-08-20, 21:27

[quote="duffy munn"]

DWags wrote:

I've seen this up close and personal as well. Great people from great familes. Parents that never knew until it was too late. And at that point, it's up to the addict to help themselves. Nobody can make them.

And as an aside: you need to go deeper than your kids. What about their friends? Fun group of kids who maybe like to hit a bong? Vape? Do the occasional line? Might your kid just try it once? Is that the time the cops come to your door with bad news? It's way more complicated than "why didn't you see the signs"?

by **GRR Spartan** 2017-08-20, 21:38

DWags wrote:
gHost Spartan wrote:
I agree, but you also have to be a pretty oblivious parent to NOT know that you're children are experimenting with or "attracted" to drug or alcohol abuse. The signs are everywhere. It's not like some straight laced kid shows up at MSU and suddenly becomes a junkie.

Holy shit. Nobody can be this naive. But, then it happens and they say "my god, I didn't know". And on and on.

Daughter lost a close friend. Fellow dancer. Theydidn't know.

It's scary. The ghosts of the world need to be naive. Then, I just hope they're lucky. They can keep the attitude. I just hope everyone is alright.

DWags, I took the liberty to edit and attribute to gHost what is gHost's.

by **DWags** 2017-08-20, 22:09

gHost Spartan wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Not all addicts wind up in the system. My post was really more about parents being able to tell their kid is hooked on opiates. That's very easy for you to say.

And, yes, a kid who may have started out having a beer here and there and from a wealthy family can easily graduate from vicodin and OxyContin to heroin. It's 10 time cheaper than the pills and way too easy to get. The opiate crisis is real. And it knows no economic or social boundries.

And I thought you were a public defender? Why were you sending people to jail?

Muffy I was a public defender for like a year and a half bro 12 years ago....

My point is simply that it is not the norm for the average kid with no substance abuse history to get hooked on heroin while at college. Yes, there will always been exceptions to the rule but it is not the norm.

So, you need to have a substance abuse problem to die from an overdose? Well then, that makes parenting a shit ton easier.

by **DWags** 2017-08-20, 22:10

[quote="gHost Spartan"]

duffy munn wrote: There are also a lot of parents who don't want to know, or think that it'll go away on its own. because they don't know how to handle the situation. Or they become enablers.

Jesus.

by **DWags** 2017-08-20, 22:11

GRR Spartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Holy shit. Nobody can be this naive. But, then it happens and they say "my god, I didn't know". And on and on.

Daughter lost a close friend. Fellow dancer. Theydidn't know.

It's scary. The ghosts of the world need to be naive. Then, I just hope they're lucky. They can keep the attitude. I just hope everyone is alright.

DWags, I took the liberty to edit and attribute to gHost what is gHost's.

Cool. I enjoy reading the people who have all the answers. They need to write how to books.

by **DWags** 2017-08-20, 22:15

gHost Spartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

So, you need to have a substance abuse problem to die from an overdose? Well then, that makes parenting a shit ton easier.

I would say that yeah, anyone who overdoses or dies has a substance abuse problem.

Cool. That's a great tip.

by **NigelUno** 2017-08-20, 22:45

gHost Spartan wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Not all addicts wind up in the system. My post was really more about parents being able to tell their kid is hooked on opiates. That's very easy for you to say.

And, yes, a kid who may have started out having a beer here and there and from a wealthy family can easily graduate from vicodin and OxyContin to heroin. It's 10 time cheaper than the pills and way too easy to get. The opiate crisis is real. And it knows no economic or social boundries.

And I thought you were a public defender? Why were you sending people to jail?

Muffy I was a public defender for like a year and a half bro 12 years ago....

My point is simply that it is not the norm for the average kid with no substance abuse history to get hooked on heroin while at college. Yes, there will always been exceptions to the rule but it is not the norm.

So, you worked for the DA?

by **InTenSity** 2017-08-20, 23:03

gHost Spartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Cool. I enjoy reading the people who have all the answers. They need to write how to books.
There are no answers with people who abuse drugs. Not hard core illegal or prescription drugs. My comments are based on my 8+ years dealing with people who abused meth, heroin, crack, and other drugs and were either caught selling or possession salable qualities or committed other felony offenses in order to obtain drugs. Every time I thought that I'd seen it all, I'd get a new, even more bizarre case.

So your better than 'those people'?

by **NigelUno** 2017-08-21, 09:02

gHost Spartan wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

So, you worked for the DA?
There is no DA office in Arizona.

OK.

Thanks.

by **duffy munn** 2017-08-21, 09:18

gHost Spartan wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

So, you worked for the DA?
There is no DA office in Arizona.

Is there a prosecutors office?

by **DWags** 2017-08-21, 09:23

gHost Spartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Cool. I enjoy reading the people who have all the answers. They need to write how to books.
There are no answers with people who abuse drugs. Not hard core illegal or prescription drugs. My comments are based on my 8+ years dealing with people who abused meth, heroin, crack, and other drugs and were either caught selling or possession salable qualities or committed other felony offenses in order to obtain drugs. Every time I thought that I'd seen it all, I'd get a new, even more bizarre case.

So, since you've just said you don't think you've seen it all, you won't be shocked to find some kids try it just once and die, or they overdose quickly when they start using. Before parents even see signs of it. Happens more than we think.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2017-08-21, 09:29

"have fun but stay clear of the needle"..

sad stuff - RIP.

by **duffy munn** 2017-08-21, 09:47

DWags wrote:
gHost Spartan wrote: There are no answers with people who abuse drugs. Not hard core illegal or prescription drugs. My comments are based on my 8+ years dealing with people who abused meth, heroin, crack, and other drugs and were either caught selling or possession salable qualities or committed other felony offenses in order to obtain drugs. Every time I thought that I'd seen it all, I'd get a new, even more bizarre case.

So, since you've just said you don't think you've seen it all, you won't be shocked to find some kids try it just once and die, or they overdose quickly when they start using. Before parents even see signs of it. Happens more than we think.

I always find it interesting when parents that have yet to experience teenagers or even young adults pass judgement. This just in: teenagers are sneaky little bastards that will lie to you with great ease.

So ghost should probably withhold his sanctimony until his daughter reaches the age when she begins to experiment. Helpful hint: as a parent you go from hero to anti-Christ in about an 18 month span when your kid is about 15. Strap yourself in, ghost.

by **DWags** 2017-08-21, 10:00

gHost Spartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

So, since you've just said you don't think you've seen it all, you won't be shocked to find some kids try it just once and die, or they overdose quickly when they start using. Before parents even see signs of it. Happens more than we think.

No normal kid just says "fuck it, let's do heroin today", does it, and dies.

Well then, there you go, no worries. That shit never happens. I'll tell my daughter she didn't have to go to that funeral this June, that shit doesn't happen.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2017-08-21, 10:09

DWags wrote:
gHost Spartan wrote:

No normal kid just says "fuck it, let's do heroin today", does it, and dies.

Well then, there you go, no worries. That shit never happens. I'll tell my daughter she didn't have to go to that funeral this June, that shit doesn't happen.

knowing this sounds condescending, I suspect his tune will change once a harsh reality is introduced into his blissfully theoretical world.

by MSU addict 2017-08-21, 10:10

gHost Spartan wrote:Muffy I was a public defender for like a year and a half bro 12 years ago....

My point is simply that it is not the norm for the average kid with no substance abuse history to get hooked on heroin while at college. Yes, there will always been exceptions to the rule but it is not the norm.

You are living in the past gHost. The face of addiction has changed dramatically in the past 12 years.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense if this were 2005. It is 2017.

The number of overdose deaths from opiates has increased by about 600% in between 2005 and 2015 (the most recent year stats are available) to continues to increase over 20% per year - it is now the leading cause of overdose death (it wasn't really even on the chart 12 years ago).

by MSU addict 2017-08-21, 10:20

gHost Spartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Well then, there you go, no worries. That shit never happens. I'll tell my daughter she didn't have to go to that funeral this June, that shit doesn't happen.

If someone approached your daughter, handed her a needle full of heroin, what do you think she'd do?

Do you really think that is how kids become addicts?

1 in 3 people in this country is prescribed opiates as a pain reliever EVERY year. A whole bunch of research tells is that opiates alter brain chemistry and function.

Most people simply transition to heroin from prescription pain killers. It is simply much cheaper. Expect to pay $30+ for one Oxycontin on the street - heroin is around $8 where I live (more expensive than many parts of the US).

Kids start taking pills before they start sticking a needle in their body.

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