Here we go again. "Mass" shooting at a Madden tournament in Jacksonville Fla.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/04/mass-shootings-more-deadly-frequent-research-215678

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:I’ve been saying all along - video games cause mass shootings.

....

Death Roe wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:I’ve been saying all along - video games cause mass shootings.

....

Kingston is actually rolling with that. That’s the crazy part.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Great news for the NRA - America's Terrorist Organization.

thoughts and prayers.

So much appropriate love for the right.     

Where are our Mods as this tragedy is mocked?

GRR Spartan wrote:Florida is a state where its relatively easy to get guns.  Once the guns are off the seller's shelvesand into the hands of purchasers you can only hope they will take care of them so they don't get stolen, used by unauthorized family members or sold to people who couldn't buy a gun legally.

Been a number of shootings from this episode, the Martin shooting, Pulse nightclub and the high school shooting this spring and the common denominator is they all occured in Florida where obtaining guns has a low bar.

Great hot take.

The gun traveled to FL from Maryland which has pretty restrictive gun laws.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

This was not the argument I expected in this thread, but it's the one we deserve.

Attitudes and the like as Kingston showed in this very thread can lead to disenfranchised youth, etc etc... leading to mental health issues leading to violent acts. People need to check themselves and deserve to be called out for it.

Great guess.   The shooter had spent time in a mental hospital.

steveschneider wrote:Too bad a good guy with a gun wasn’t there to stop the shooter.

Great hot take .  Except.   The shooting occurred in a "gun free" zone as they often do. So your good guy law abiding gun owners had been disarmed.

More for your "good guy" stats......even you gun grabbers might want to heed this and stay out of "gun free zones" - more feel good, do something legislation that just ends up getting people killed.

But I'm sure the wizards here will know much more than these people that actually study the problem and compile the statistics.

It should be apparent to any of you that the cowards will go to places that no can shoot back.  But why apply logic when you can whip up hysteria?

UPDATED: Mass Public Shootings keep occurring in Gun-Free Zones: 97.8% of attacks since 1950

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Great news for the NRA - America's Terrorist Organization.

thoughts and prayers.

So much appropriate love for the right.     

Where are our Mods as this tragedy is mocked?

maybe they're busy sending out thoughts and prayers.

LooseGoose wrote:More for your "good guy" stats......even you gun grabbers might want to heed this and stay out of "gun free zones" - more feel good, do something legislation that just ends up getting people killed.

But I'm sure the wizards here will know much more than these people that actually study the problem and compile the statistics.

It should be apparent to any of you that the cowards will go to places that no can shoot back.  But why apply logic when you can whip up hysteria?

UPDATED: Mass Public Shootings keep occurring in Gun-Free Zones: 97.8% of attacks since 1950

I’ve veen through this once before, you ignored me then and you’ll ignore me now because you like the message, this official sounding site is from a guy named John Lott who is known to just make shit up. Feel free to see my last post on him that goes into a lot more detail because I’m not going to waste my time knowing you’ll just ignore it. Have a nice day believing whatever made up shit you want.

(And I mean this one doesn’t even pass the smell test by a mile. The amount of incidents you’d have to massage out of that data to get to that result are hilarious. Probably start by changing the mass shooting definition up to like 20 deceased or something crazy like that. Certainly higher than this Jacksonville one though. So.)

DWags wrote:This thread is a microcosm of why we will not have common sense gun laws.

isn't it pretty amazing how a certain segment of society can't simply denounce mass shootings without qualifiers?

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Death Roe wrote:
....

Kingston is actually rolling with that. That’s the crazy part.

No. You've clearly established that my attitude killed those people. Remember? Or has all that weed short circuited your memory?

kingstonlake wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Kingston is actually rolling with that. That’s the crazy part.

No. You've clearly established that my attitude killed those people. Remember? Or has all that weed short circuited your memory?

Link to post claiming that? Or is that just a straw man?

Yawn. Nice weed insult, the 60s called.. looking for their insult back. PS Just because people in your life can’t handle drug use doesn’t mean everyone can’t.

EVERYONE IS YELLING!!!!

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:EVERYONE IS YELLING!!!!

DWags wrote:This thread is a microcosm of why we will not have common sense gun laws.

So I was hanging with the wife's friends a couple weekends ago. "Gun shooting". Dude there probably had $10k worth of semi-automatics. Like 6 or 7 ARs. Plus a number of other little toys. Some handguns, etc.

It's a cute little hobby. Kind of like macrame for the overly testosteroned (or those wanting to be overly testosteroned).

I have no problem with that.

Why is it so horrific for sane hobby people to have to wait for a background check at a gun show if it would prevent even a single crazy dude from killing innocents? (Or make them reload after 5 rounds instead of 15... Or a million of the other sensible things that could be done to address the obvious issues we have.)

These people were otherwise normal-ish Michiganders... not sure why a slight inconvenience isn't worth somebody's life.

Amazing how these threads stay on the main board until facts contrary to the liberal agenda get introduced....THEN it's off to the Bin.

The liberal slant in moderating these boards is silly.

And BTW - the shooter had 2 guns, both from Maryland ranked as one of the 5-6 strictest gun control states. Both handguns, but let's ban rifles.

And for your morning reading - those radical right wingers at NPR debunk more liberal bullshit spread about the prevalence of school shootings.

The School Shootings That Weren't

How many times per year does a gun go off in an American school?

We should know. But we don't.

This spring the U.S. Education Department reported that in the 2015-2016 school year, "nearly 240 schools ... reported at least 1 incident involving a school-related shooting." The number is far higher than most other estimates.

But NPR reached out to every one of those schools repeatedly over the course of three months and found that more than two-thirds of these reported incidents never happened. Child Trends, a nonpartisan nonprofit research organization, assisted NPR in analyzing data from the government's Civil Rights Data Collection.

We were able to confirm just 11 reported incidents, either directly with schools or through media reports.

Left unsaid:
The other 229 were most likely bullshit. With the media coverage of any shooting at or near a school it should have been easy to find them IF they happened.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

DWags wrote:This thread is a microcosm of why we will not have common sense gun laws.

So I was hanging with the wife's friends a couple weekends ago. "Gun shooting". Dude there probably had $10k worth of semi-automatics. Like 6 or 7 ARs. Plus a number of other little toys. Some handguns, etc.

It's a cute little hobby. Kind of like macrame for the overly testosteroned (or those wanting to be overly testosteroned).

I have no problem with that.

Why is it so horrific for sane hobby people to have to wait for a background check at a gun show if it would prevent even a single crazy dude from killing innocents? (Or make them reload after 5 rounds instead of 15... Or a million of the other sensible things that could be done to address the obvious issues we have.)

These people were otherwise normal-ish Michiganders... not sure why a slight inconvenience isn't worth somebody's life.

they're an odd bunch - I think that they've been conditioned by their overlords that logic, reason and rational thought is somehow a threat to their way of life.

people get very rich by sowing the seeds of paranoia.. and then manipulating them for gain.

LooseGoose wrote:Amazing how these threads stay on the main board until facts contrary to the liberal agenda get introduced....THEN it's off to the Bin.

The liberal slant in moderating these boards is silly.

And BTW - the shooter had 2 guns, both from Maryland ranked as one of the 5-6 strictest gun control states. Both handguns, but let's ban rifles.

And for your morning reading - those radical right wingers at NPR debunk more liberal bullshit spread about the prevalence of school shootings.

The School Shootings That Weren't

How many times per year does a gun go off in an American school?

We should know. But we don't.

This spring the U.S. Education Department reported that in the 2015-2016 school year, "nearly 240 schools ... reported at least 1 incident involving a school-related shooting." The number is far higher than most other estimates.

But NPR reached out to every one of those schools repeatedly over the course of three months and found that more than two-thirds of these reported incidents never happened. Child Trends, a nonpartisan nonprofit research organization, assisted NPR in analyzing data from the government's Civil Rights Data Collection.

We were able to confirm just 11 reported incidents, either directly with schools or through media reports.

Left unsaid:
The other 229 were most likely bullshit. With the media coverage of any shooting at or near a school it should have been easy to find them IF they happened.

thanks for the mainstream media link.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Why is it so horrific for sane hobby people to have to wait for a background check at a gun show if it would prevent even a single crazy dude from killing innocents?

A myth. If you buy a gun from a FFL dealer at a gun show you have a background check run.

IF you buy from a private individual there is no check required in MI on long guns - which is the same whether you're at a gun show, your house or the local gun club.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

So I was hanging with the wife's friends a couple weekends ago. "Gun shooting". Dude there probably had $10k worth of semi-automatics. Like 6 or 7 ARs. Plus a number of other little toys. Some handguns, etc.

It's a cute little hobby. Kind of like macrame for the overly testosteroned (or those wanting to be overly testosteroned).

I have no problem with that.

Why is it so horrific for sane hobby people to have to wait for a background check at a gun show if it would prevent even a single crazy dude from killing innocents? (Or make them reload after 5 rounds instead of 15... Or a million of the other sensible things that could be done to address the obvious issues we have.)

These people were otherwise normal-ish Michiganders... not sure why a slight inconvenience isn't worth somebody's life.

they're an odd bunch - I think that they've been conditioned by their overlords that logic, reason and rational thought is somehow a threat to their way of life.

people get very rich by sowing the seeds of paranoia.. and then manipulating them for gain.

Great post. Packed to the gills with bullshit. Bob, the man that never leaves his urban enclave knows the minds of the rurals, hunters and gun owners.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: they're an odd bunch - I think that they've been conditioned by their overlords that logic, reason and rational thought is somehow a threat to their way of life.

people get very rich by sowing the seeds of paranoia.. and then manipulating them for gain.

Great post. Packed to the gills with bullshit. Bob, the man that never leaves his urban enclave knows the minds of the rurals, hunters and gun owners.

I'm sorry that you disagree with my opinions.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: they're an odd bunch - I think that they've been conditioned by their overlords that logic, reason and rational thought is somehow a threat to their way of life.

people get very rich by sowing the seeds of paranoia.. and then manipulating them for gain.

Great post. Packed to the gills with bullshit. Bob, the man that never leaves his urban enclave knows the minds of the rurals, hunters and gun owners.

East Lansing is an urban enclave?

Watch out Bob, you gonna catch a cap running the mean streets of EL!

East Lansing is a strip mall.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

No. You've clearly established that my attitude killed those people. Remember? Or has all that weed short circuited your memory?

Link to post claiming that? Or is that just a straw man?

Yawn. Nice weed insult, the 60s called.. looking for their insult back. PS Just because people in your life can’t handle drug use doesn’t mean everyone can’t.

It's as straw man as you saying I think vidoe games cause mass shootings and that I'm "rolling with it". See how that works? Try holding yourself to same standards you hold others.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Great post. Packed to the gills with bullshit. Bob, the man that never leaves his urban enclave knows the minds of the rurals, hunters and gun owners.

East Lansing is an urban enclave?

Watch out Bob, you gonna catch a cap running the mean streets of EL!

not to mention that I grew up in an area that makes Mio look like a bustling metropolis full of cultural intrigue.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:East Lansing is a strip mall.

inside an urban enclave.

“Possible. Or some dude with a really bad temper who couldn't take losing, always was told he's the best, has over 3 million kills on Grand theft auto, etc.“

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:“Possible. Or some dude with a really bad temper who couldn't take losing, always was told he's the best, has over 3 million kills on Grand theft auto, etc.“

At least we can agree we both used strawman arguments. Now if we could both admit it.....

DWags wrote:This thread is a microcosm of why we will not have common sense gun laws.

So we agree that gun free zones aren't common sense laws? I do disagree with you on background checks, I think those make a lot of sense.

And guess what else Wags? I agree with you 100% - it's impossible to have a serious conversation on guns on this board.

You might recall I tried to do that 6 months or so ago - writing up and posting a long list of things that could be done in this country. What was possible for both sides to agree on. The response was Cameron wanting to think on it and reply and birds chirping from the rest of the crowd here.

Much like the politicians they support it's not as important to prevent shootings as it is to make political hay off them. The same crowd that was lamenting poIiticizing the young girls death in Iowa was politicizing the shootings in Jacksonville before the bodies were cold or the facts were known. That they were nearly 100% wrong isn't important, they got their headlines.

So bewail the inability to discuss things here all you want, but don't kid yourself about why we can't.

PERTEKT!!

LooseGoose wrote:... the minds of the rurals, hunters and gun owners.

So this is the problem. These people aren't represented by the NRA. Your projecting they are (based on NRA propaganda)....

Crazy people who think they need semi-auto guns with 15 round clips are represented by the NRA. Since the NRA is currently fighting for laws to keep these people armed.

quick reminder that the NRA and the GOP (who consider themselves "pro life") have no problem with mass shootings and actually think that more guns is the answer.

Article wrote:Experts said despite Katz’s weeks spent at mental-health facilities and encounters with law enforcement, none of it was enough to bar him from purchasing a gun in Maryland.

Shockingly this dude spent weeks at a mental hospital and had run ins with the law but Maryland still allowed him to buy guns. This is the shit we (as a country) need to tighten up.

LooseGoose wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:Florida is a state where its relatively easy to get guns.  Once the guns are off the seller's shelvesand into the hands of purchasers you can only hope they will take care of them so they don't get stolen, used by unauthorized family members or sold to people who couldn't buy a gun legally.

Been a number of shootings from this episode, the Martin shooting, Pulse nightclub and the high school shooting this spring and the common denominator is they all occured in Florida where obtaining guns has a low bar.

Great hot take.

The gun traveled to FL from Maryland which has pretty restrictive gun laws.

Hot take

Florida is still the 6th easiest state to get guns and has the 3rd largest population but we know math isn't a Trump supporter strong suit.

When a crazy with a gun starts shooting up Mio it may be problem only if people with whom you are acquainted are killed.

DWags wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:



Shockingly this dude spent weeks at a mental hospital and had run ins with the law but Maryland still allowed him to buy guns. This is the shit we (as a country) need to tighten up.

I just can't believe, as a society, we can't have common sense laws or checks.  Even my gun nut friends are all about the mental health road blocks to owning a gun.  

Now, that said, and with a wife who started out in social work and has that degree, to deny someone who had a mental heath "problem" (lack of a better word) before the rights that we all have is a very tricky thing.  

All I know is we need to do something, and we haven't yet.  And fuck, I really don't have an answer.  If I was king of the world, I would, and it most likely would piss a shit load of people off and cost millions.

Shouldn't be that difficult... Deny everyone with a violent criminal past or mental health commitments. Allow them to appeal before a board (like the CCW boards) to get re-instated. That, at the very least, would create a buffer for crazies like this dude to just walk up and get guns.

Hell, you get your driver's licence taken away for speeding, why not your "ability to commit mass murder" license taken away for having no self-control... and (at least in Michigan) the infrastructure is already in place.

It really would only be a slight inconvenience non-crazies and may save lives... NRA would paint it as anti-military or some shit and that idiot with his papa's 12 gauge and .30-06 would fund the lobbying effort to kill the measure.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

DWags wrote:


I just can't believe, as a society, we can't have common sense laws or checks.  Even my gun nut friends are all about the mental health road blocks to owning a gun.  

Now, that said, and with a wife who started out in social work and has that degree, to deny someone who had a mental heath "problem" (lack of a better word) before the rights that we all have is a very tricky thing.  

All I know is we need to do something, and we haven't yet.  And fuck, I really don't have an answer.  If I was king of the world, I would, and it most likely would piss a shit load of people off and cost millions.

Shouldn't be that difficult... Deny everyone with a violent criminal past or mental health commitments. Allow them to appeal before a board (like the CCW boards) to get re-instated. That, at the very least, would create a buffer for crazies like this dude to just walk up and get guns.

Hell, you get your driver's licence taken away for speeding, why not your "ability to commit mass murder" license taken away for having no self-control... and (at least in Michigan) the infrastructure is already in place.

It really would only be a slight inconvenience non-crazies and may save lives... NRA would paint it as anti-military or some shit and that idiot with his papa's 12 gauge and .30-06 would fund the lobbying effort to kill the measure.

the problem is, the NRA needs mass shootings to keep promoting their pathetic agenda.

They're like the hypocritical 'pro life' politicians/lobbyists. The last thing they want is to end abortion, as it would eliminate their entire purpose in life.

LooseGoose wrote:
And guess what else Wags? I agree with you 100% - it's impossible to have a serious conversation on guns on this board.

You might recall I tried to do that 6 months or so ago - writing up and posting a long list of things that could be done in this country. What was possible for both sides to agree on. The response was Cameron wanting to think on it and reply and birds chirping from the rest of the crowd here.

Shout out to AnomanderRake, as I recall he was open to a reasonable discussion at that time as well.