Moral Outrage! Here we discuss the LSJ article about the '99 Riots

Meh. I don't really care. Those were fun times on campus. Didn't partake, didn't even know what was going on in CV. We went down towards the 7-11 at Michigan/GR to see what was going on at the Abbot Entrance from Beal St after the game was over. Watched for a bit, tear gas released, we went back.

I remember running down Grand River the next morning.. there were a bunch of news trucks around, the smell of smoke and teargas still in the air.. I'd been asleep since, like, 8:30 PM the night before so I had no idea what had happened.

got back home, flipped on the TV and it was on The Today Show or CBS This Morning or something.

on another note, I'm glad to see LSJ is trying to capitalize on the upcoming anniversary... I guess when you refuse to cover actual news stories, you can try writing about some solid tabloid-esque event like this and then convince people to purchase an online subscription.

I find that between my personal laptop, incognito mode, and my phone, I rarely seem to bump up against the free article limits. Maybe 2-3 stories a month are interesting enough for me to click on.

I don't either. If they want to commemorate the 20th anniversary that makes sense it was a BFD. Outside of just letting people know it happened 20 years ago what else is there to say or learn from it?

BTW, living on the East Coast I've seen news of massive sports riots in Boston, UCONN's campus, Philly and Maryland. What happened at EL is more common than the Michigan MSM will lead you to believe.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I remember running down Grand River the next morning.. there were a bunch of news trucks around, the smell of smoke and teargas still in the air.. I'd been asleep since, like, 8:30 PM the night before so I had no idea what had happened.

got back home, flipped on the TV and it was on The Today Show or CBS This Morning or something.

on another note, I'm glad to see LSJ is trying to capitalize on the upcoming anniversary... I guess when you refuse to cover actual news stories, you can try writing about some solid tabloid-esque event like this and then convince people to purchase an online subscription.

Yeah the morning after it truly did look like a war zone. Unreal the amount of property damage that was done.

steveschneider wrote:I don't either. If they want to commemorate the 20th anniversary that makes sense it was a BFD. Outside of just letting people know it happened 20 years ago what else is there to say or learn from it?

BTW, living on the East Coast I've seen news of massive sports riots in Boston, UCONN's campus, Philly and Maryland. What happened at EL is more common than the Michigan MSM will lead you to believe.

To be fair the 99 riot was the Grandaddy of them All in terms of EL riots. According to that article it caused half a mil in damage. I'd like to see damage amounts for those other incidents mentioned.

I remember being a 37 year old pissed off alumni at all you crazy fuckers who usurped Izzo and the teams accomplishments in the headlines of the Detroit rags and t.v. stations. Then, I thought, "meh, who cares". Moving on.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

steveschneider wrote:I don't either. If they want to commemorate the 20th anniversary that makes sense it was a BFD. Outside of just letting people know it happened 20 years ago what else is there to say or learn from it?

BTW, living on the East Coast I've seen news of massive sports riots in Boston, UCONN's campus, Philly and Maryland. What happened at EL is more common than the Michigan MSM will lead you to believe.

To be fair the 99 riot was the Grandaddy of them All in terms of EL riots. According to that article it caused half a mil in damage. I'd like to see damage amounts for those other incidents mentioned.

Yeah, it was definitely a BFD and an embarrassment for the town. That UCONN one I think students took down a telephone poll and rammed it through a building window. The one in Boston a lady got killed by a rubber bullet. The one in Philly some drunk ate horse shit.

Oh yeah, SF had huge riots after the WS and people got killed when a car gunned it through a crowd. I’m not trying to minimize what happened at el but they aren’t unique to MSU.

It was crazy. But it was the cops' fault mostly.

Rocinante wrote:It was crazy. But it was the cops' fault mostly.

I don’t know. There was a drunken mob destroying shit and setting fires.

Yeah, a kid I went to high school with spent 40 some days in the slammer for taking part in the flipping of a cop car near Cedar Village.

Senior Dickfist wrote:Yeah, a kid I went to high school with spent 40 some days in the slammer for taking part in the flipping of a cop car near Cedar Village.

He probably shouldn't have done that.

steveschneider wrote:

Rocinante wrote:It was crazy. But it was the cops' fault mostly.

I don’t know. There was a drunken mob destroying shit and setting fires.

OK Steve. We've had this argument 10,000 times. I'll just say I think the cops overreacted and there would have been much less damage if they hadn't. I mean, these were mostly college kids, not hardened criminals.

You realize that hot chick who flashed the crowd and wound up with her photo in the paper as she was arrested is now at or close to 40 years old?

tGreenWay wrote:You realize that hot chick who flashed the crowd and wound up with her photo in the paper as she was arrested is now at or close to 40 years old?

Wasn't from some later riot?

Floyd Robertson wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:You realize that hot chick who flashed the crowd and wound up with her photo in the paper as she was arrested is now at or close to 40 years old?

Wasn't from some later riot?

Pretty sure it was ‘99.

Rocinante wrote:It was crazy. But it was the cops' fault mostly.

tGreenWay wrote:You realize that hot chick who flashed the crowd and wound up with her photo in the paper as she was arrested is now at or close to 40 years old?

You mean "CamGirl_69"?

tGreenWay wrote:You realize that hot chick who flashed the crowd and wound up with her photo in the paper as she was arrested is now at or close to 40 years old?

Is she still hot?

Jake from State Farm wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:You realize that hot chick who flashed the crowd and wound up with her photo in the paper as she was arrested is now at or close to 40 years old?

Is she still hot?

No idea.

duffy munn wrote:

Senior Dickfist wrote:Yeah, a kid I went to high school with spent 40 some days in the slammer for taking part in the flipping of a cop car near Cedar Village.

He probably shouldn't have done that.

Not probably...absolutely shouldn't. He's grown up now. He got back into school a couple years later and got his degree.

tGreenWay wrote:

Jake from State Farm wrote:

Is she still hot?

No idea.

I guess you guys didn't read the article that I didn't link.

Senior Dickfist wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

He probably shouldn't have done that.

Not probably...absolutely shouldn't. He's grown up now. He got back into school a couple years later and got his degree.

I'm sure I told this story before. But the week before this, when we beat Kentucky to make the Final Four and there was a mini-riot in CV, my roommate, who was an ASMSU rep and even for that day and age was somewhat of a SJW, got himself arrested for laying down in front of a Fire Truck that was on the scene to put out couch fires.

For months he was on probation, and there was a device hooked up to our landline in the house. The ELPD would call our number 517.337.9830 any hour day or night and he would have to blow into the device on the phone to prove he wasn't drinking.

And the best part was he wasn't even drunk when he laid down in front of the fire truck.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Rocinante wrote:It was crazy. But it was the cops' fault mostly.

As a staunch supporter of police, I wouldn't expect anything different from you, Bob.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:

No idea.

I guess you guys didn't read the article that I didn't link.

I generally don't click on articles unless it serves as a source for me to mock said article.

Rocinante wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

As a staunch supporter of police, I wouldn't expect anything different from you, Bob.

I thought you were kidding.

as an EL resident and taxpayer for 24 years (I think.. maybe 25?), I've never really had a problem with the ELPD. If you obey the law, and you happen to be white, police usually leave you alone.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Senior Dickfist wrote:

Not probably...absolutely shouldn't. He's grown up now. He got back into school a couple years later and got his degree.

I'm sure I told this story before. But the week before this, when we beat Kentucky to make the Final Four and there was a mini-riot in CV, my roommate, who was an ASMSU rep and even for that day and age was somewhat of a SJW, got himself arrested for laying down in front of a Fire Truck that was on the scene to put out couch fires.

For months he was on probation, and there was a device hooked up to our landline in the house. The ELPD would call our number 517.337.9830 any hour day or night and he would have to blow into the device on the phone to prove he wasn't drinking.

And the best part was he wasn't even drunk when he laid down in front of the fire truck.

That is hysterical. Was he inspired by the guy from Tiananmen Square?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Senior Dickfist wrote:

Not probably...absolutely shouldn't. He's grown up now. He got back into school a couple years later and got his degree.

I'm sure I told this story before. But the week before this, when we beat Kentucky to make the Final Four and there was a mini-riot in CV, my roommate, who was an ASMSU rep and even for that day and age was somewhat of a SJW, got himself arrested for laying down in front of a Fire Truck that was on the scene to put out couch fires.

For months he was on probation, and there was a device hooked up to our landline in the house. The ELPD would call our number 517.337.9830 any hour day or night and he would have to blow into the device on the phone to prove he wasn't drinking.

And the best part was he wasn't even drunk when he laid down in front of the fire truck.

Reminds me of a funny yet mean story from years before. ( pre-caller ID). A buddy had the same device on his landline and had to answer when it rang. One night a bunch of us were drunk and called him like 100 times between 2 and 4 am.

We thought it was hilarious but he sure as hell didn't. Looking back on it, it was hilarious.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

As a staunch supporter of police, I wouldn't expect anything different from you, Bob.

I thought you were kidding.

as an EL resident and taxpayer for 24 years (I think.. maybe 25?), I've never really had a problem with the ELPD. If you obey the law, and you happen to be white, police usually leave you alone.

So moral....outrage relativism then?

Rocinate, I wasn't aware of your position. Genuinely curious and I won't respond. What should have happened differently? I might agree actually. Going off the other sports riots I listed above I think the policing approach was more along the lines of contain it.

I will say though it is a tough call. There's that Woodstock 99 and from my view point what transpired in EL could have also veered into something much worse. You had drunks destroying property, women flashing the crowd and I don't know...mob mentality can make an ordinary reasonable person do horrible things.

I don't want to get into the argument, but I thought that the overzealous EL police was more from riots in later years, which was a result of 99 (i.e., under direction to be tougher to not let it get out of control).

I have a long history with EL.

I lived on the east side of lansing my whole life and spent most of my weekends in EL. I was A student in 99 (freshman), but I was 22 (navy). There was, at that time a deep mistrust of ELPD because of their hard-assed tactics and overreaction. In addition many on the city council, the mayor, and many of the residents of EL went out of their to make the students feel unwanted by passing anti-student ordinances and constantly bad mouthing students in the press. They loved the financial benefit the college brought them, if only it wasn't for those damn students! The mutual distrust between students and the police is what led to the cops bringing in departments from all over the state, ready with full riot gear prior to anything even going down. They ramped up the aggression. They marched in like it was the goddamn russian revolution. Shit did get out of control that night, but it would never have gone down like that without the backdrop of a town that wanted their money but didn't want them, a police force that responded to any call with excessive tactics, and a government that didn't support them. That's always been my opinion.

BTW, I was at Cedar Village the night of the game. My friend and I left right as the game was ending because he worked at Bagel Fragel, and we were going to get a couple bagels. By the time we did that, the front window was smashed and the dumpster out back was on fire. We left and went home.

I understand some of the background as to why the mob went nuts, but that doesn't mean I wanted any part of it.

I guess I just always have looked at it like "who are the adults here?" Once the first cannister is fired, somebody has failed.

Edit: To Miami (and to add to Roc's post) No...the overzealous policing started probably around '97. There was a huge transformation from my fresh/soph years (95/96) to my junior/sr/sr plus years.

They wanted to get the reputation of MSU and the city of EL under control and get rid of the party image. Many of these riots were push backs against that in some form or fashion.

They knew what they were doing in retrospect. It worked.

Rocinante wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I thought you were kidding.

as an EL resident and taxpayer for 24 years (I think.. maybe 25?), I've never really had a problem with the ELPD. If you obey the law, and you happen to be white, police usually leave you alone.

So moral....outrage relativism then?

if that's what you want to call it.

but if you riot, destroy personal and public property while setting items ablaze, thereby endangering yourself and others.. it's generally going to be frowned upon by the police.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:

No idea.

I guess you guys didn't read the article that I didn't link.

I don't click on unlinked articles.

Roc keepin' it real pimpin' his way down Grand River..

I am generally not a fan of police. Glad that’s clear.

Looking back it was all sort of a well played conspiracy. For years MSU, MSU PD, East Lansing and ELPD would cite the statistics of underage drinkers arrested in the State of Michigan and at MSU as justification for cracking down. What no one at the time realized was that at that time the State of Michigan was the only State in the country where the body was considered a container for minors. So duh. Of course the statistics were off the charts.

I wonder if that is still the case or if other states have followed suit.

Just trying to think of any other time in my life I’ve been around a scene similar to EL in the 90s. In the 00’s I was in norther Spain after a soccer match. That town was fucking lit.

Rocinante wrote:I am generally not a fan of police. Glad that’s clear.

that's cool, dude. We all have our things.