Moral Outrage! Here we discuss the LSJ article about the '99 Riots

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Looking back it was all sort of a well played conspiracy. For years MSU, MSU PD, East Lansing and ELPD would cite the statistics of underage drinkers arrested in the State of Michigan and at MSU as justification for cracking down. What no one at the time realized was that at that time the State of Michigan was the only State in the country where the body was considered a container for minors. So duh. Of course the statistics were off the charts.

I wonder if that is still the case or if other states have followed suit.

I never knew that. How did that work?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Edit: To Miami (and to add to Roc's post) No...the overzealous policing started probably around '97. There was a huge transformation from my fresh/soph years (95/96) to my junior/sr/sr plus years.

They wanted to get the reputation of MSU and the city of EL under control and get rid of the party image. Many of these riots were push backs against that in some form or fashion.

They knew what they were doing in retrospect. It worked.

And even before then ELPD started being dicks. After the 91 uofm game, Cedarfest ended up with a dumpster fire. First time they brought in "riot gear" (as I recall)... But I don't recall much, because I was really enjoying myself. As always, there were like 3 dudes causing all the destruction with 5,000 drunks watching.

They upped the harassment of kids after that.

Noise violations if they could hear music on the sidewalk. The MIP to drunk kids without alcohol on them... stuff like that. The university ALSO cracked down on dorm parties right about then, too. Started cracking down on tailgating shenanigans.

I guess it all came to a head in 1999.

Rocinante wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Looking back it was all sort of a well played conspiracy. For years MSU, MSU PD, East Lansing and ELPD would cite the statistics of underage drinkers arrested in the State of Michigan and at MSU as justification for cracking down. What no one at the time realized was that at that time the State of Michigan was the only State in the country where the body was considered a container for minors. So duh. Of course the statistics were off the charts.

I wonder if that is still the case or if other states have followed suit.

I never knew that. How did that work?

Like Joe said... if you were a minor and had alcohol in your system but not on your person, you were ticketed and arrested for MIP. They did not need to see physical evidence i.e. a beer can, to stop you and administer a pbt. All they needed was to make up probable cause that you stumbled or your eyes looked red and you looked young and they would stop you, demand your ID, and if under 21, make you blow.

I was back in EL probably 8 years ago or so. I left Peanut Barrel as the bars were letting out. Saw some pretty crazy shit. People hanging from that yellow beam in a parking garage that had the height clearance. A lot of people off the side walk stumbling on the side of the road. In front of Harpers was a big crowd spilling out into the street as it was letting out. People punching stop signs as they passed them a few broken bottles etc. Place reminded me of the old days.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

I never knew that. How did that work?

Like Joe said... if you were a minor and had alcohol in your system but not on your person, you were ticketed and arrested for MIP. They did not need to see physical evidence i.e. a beer can, to stop you and administer a pbt. All they needed was to make up probable cause that you stumbled or your eyes looked red and you looked young and they would stop you, demand your ID, and if under 21, make you blow.

Oh, I get it. I guess I never knew that wasn't common practice all over the country.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Senior Dickfist wrote:

Not probably...absolutely shouldn't. He's grown up now. He got back into school a couple years later and got his degree.

I'm sure I told this story before. But the week before this, when we beat Kentucky to make the Final Four and there was a mini-riot in CV, my roommate, who was an ASMSU rep and even for that day and age was somewhat of a SJW, got himself arrested for laying down in front of a Fire Truck that was on the scene to put out couch fires.

For months he was on probation, and there was a device hooked up to our landline in the house. The ELPD would call our number 517.337.9830 any hour day or night and he would have to blow into the device on the phone to prove he wasn't drinking.

And the best part was he wasn't even drunk when he laid down in front of the fire truck.

Haha I remember that dude....There were also a group of dudes out breakdancing in the street. No cardboard they were so wasted. Some dummy was doing shoulder spins on the pavement and carved up his back something fierce

Rocinante wrote:I am generally not a fan of police. Glad that’s clear.

Take form a guy that worked closely with ELPD for decades. I also sat on boards and commissions after the riots. There are a few assholes at ELPD but the overwhelming majority are good people just doing their jobs.

Like Bob says if you obey the law and are not an ass to them they generally don't fuck with you.

Just my two cents.

tGreenWay wrote:You realize that hot chick who flashed the crowd and wound up with her photo in the paper as she was arrested is now at or close to 40 years old?

Pretty sure she still thinks you're just a creepy old stalker.

duffy munn wrote:

Rocinante wrote:I am generally not a fan of police. Glad that’s clear.

Take form a guy that worked closely with ELPD for decades. I also sat on boards and commissions after the riots. There are a few assholes at ELPD but the overwhelming majority are good people just doing their jobs.

Like Bob says if you obey the law and are not an ass to them they generally don't fuck with you.

Just my two cents.

more exclusive footage of Roc keepin' it real, yo.. drivin' past Peanut Barrel like a boss.

question, was it the 99 riot that a Delorean got smashed at?

steveschneider wrote:question, was it the 99 riot that a Delorean got smashed at?

I'm not sure that it was limited to just Delorean.. a lot of people were smashed at the '99 riot.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

steveschneider wrote:question, was it the 99 riot that a Delorean got smashed at?

I'm not sure that it was limited to just Delorean.. a lot of people were smashed at the '99 riot.

It was either that one or the Munn Riots that a Delorean got totaled at. Who the fuck smashes a Delorean? Just googled it and saw on 247 someone was discussing tipping a Delorean in 99.

steveschneider wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I'm not sure that it was limited to just Delorean.. a lot of people were smashed at the '99 riot.

It was either that one or the Munn Riots that a Delorean got totaled at. Who the fuck smashes a Delorean? Just googled it and saw on 247 someone was discussing tipping a Delorean in 99.

They were probably just looking for some coke.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

steveschneider wrote:question, was it the 99 riot that a Delorean got smashed at?

I'm not sure that it was limited to just Delorean.. a lot of people were smashed at the '99 riot.

Hey -ohhh
Tip your waitress.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I'm not sure that it was limited to just Delorean.. a lot of people were smashed at the '99 riot.

Hey -ohhh
Tip your waitress.

I will point out on Twitter I just saw people calling out the 1989 riots in A2. Also, there were riots at CMU in the 90's that made it to CNN.

I'm kind of torn about the blue wall stuff. I think there's a vocal group of whiners that can't handle any bad news about MSU even when it is deserved but on the other hand why is MSU's singled out and remembered decades later? Reading up on the A2 riots in 89 (30th anniversary should be coming up) that sounded like a nasty night.

Bob, seen here posting about police brutality:



Also Bob, when some students walk by his house in EL:

Cedar Fest was fun when I lived there in 79/80, before the cops got involved. Think only one couch got toasted and everyone enjoyed it.

The Pantry wrote:Cedar Fest was fun when I lived there in 79/80, before the cops got involved. Think only one couch got toasted and everyone enjoyed it.

The only fire I recall in the CV area was some guy tried to dump lighter fluid on a raging grill and he ended up on fire instead, but then again, I was often under the influence in those days.

I.B. Fine wrote:

The Pantry wrote:Cedar Fest was fun when I lived there in 79/80, before the cops got involved. Think only one couch got toasted and everyone enjoyed it.

The only fire I recall in the CV area was some guy tried to dump lighter fluid on a raging grill and he ended up on fire instead, but then again, I was often under the influence in those days.

Recall that story. Went on a camping/fishing trip in the northern lower peninsula (not to be confused with Up North) a couple years later. One of the friends I was with started squirting lighter fluid on the campfire, which had been burning just fine. Told him he was an idiot and retold the MSU story to him. Lighter fluid seemed much more flammable back then, plus it only came in metal containers.

steveschneider wrote:I will point out on Twitter I just saw people calling out the 1989 riots in A2. Also, there were riots at CMU in the 90's that made it to CNN.

I'm kind of torn about the blue wall stuff. I think there's a vocal group of whiners that can't handle any bad news about MSU even when it is deserved but on the other hand why is MSU's singled out and remembered decades later? Reading up on the A2 riots in 89 (30th anniversary should be coming up) that sounded like a nasty night.

I read up on it, too. It sounded nasty, but it was $84k worth of carnage. The '99 EL riots were half a million. Apples to oranges.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

steveschneider wrote:I will point out on Twitter I just saw people calling out the 1989 riots in A2. Also, there were riots at CMU in the 90's that made it to CNN.

I'm kind of torn about the blue wall stuff. I think there's a vocal group of whiners that can't handle any bad news about MSU even when it is deserved but on the other hand why is MSU's singled out and remembered decades later? Reading up on the A2 riots in 89 (30th anniversary should be coming up) that sounded like a nasty night.

I read up on it, too. It sounded nasty, but it was $84k worth of carnage. The '99 EL riots were half a million. Apples to oranges.

This link says the '99 damages were $250K, not 500 as LSJ states.  Still, a lot.

RETURN OF CEDAR FEST

The Pantry wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
I read up on it, too. It sounded nasty, but it was $84k worth of carnage. The '99 EL riots were half a million. Apples to oranges.

This link says the '99 damages were $250K, not 500 as LSJ states.  Still, a lot.

RETURN OF CEDAR FEST

That Delorean was probably what drove the costs of damages up so high.

Rocinante wrote:Bob, seen here posting about police brutality:



Also Bob, when some students walk by his house in EL:

that's not fair.



That dude is much better looking than I am.

tGreenWay wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:

Wasn't from some later riot?

Pretty sure it was ‘99.

2008 Cedar Fest

Turtleneck wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:

Pretty sure it was ‘99.

2008 Cedar Fest

Thank you, Turtleneck. I knew it was more like 10 years ago but couldn't remember the event/setting.

Floyd Robertson wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

2008 Cedar Fest

Thank you, Turtleneck. I knew it was more like 10 years ago but couldn't remember the event/setting.

I am sorry for GreenWay’s behavior. Ever since he upgraded from dialup he has been super arrogant.

Hey asshole, you never asked me about shit.
I haven't read this thread yet though.

I thought you were a shtick. But you’ve been a member since 2014! Welcome back! Stick around!

I was living not far from the riot of '99. As an upstanding citizen of EL I was none too happy with the disruption caused by the frequently rioting students of that day and age. A few weeks after the riot, to my surprise, I was called to jury duty for the trial of one of the rioters. Before the testimony even began, I knew he was guilty--drunk students had become very annoying. As it turned out he was neither drunk nor a rioter. He was a pacifist caught in the wrong place at the wrong time while he was trying to assist some students who had been tear gassed. He got stuck in the middle of the students throwing rocks on one side and the police marching toward him in riot gear on the other side. Instead of running to safety he sat alone in the middle of the road in a yoga pose to demonstrate his non-violence. When the police got to him as they were marching they picked him up and hauled him to jail. When the story unfolded during the trial it became apparent this was a gentle, kind soul who acted in a very stupid manner. To find him guilty would have meant ruining his life as his acceptance to a master's program would have been rescinded. He was found not guilty. The judge spoke to the jury afterward. He stated that technically the kid was guilty of the charge given, but he would not overrule the verdict as he also felt the kid panicked and didn't deserve to go to jail.

Moral Outrage wrote:Hey asshole, you never asked me about shit.
I haven't read this thread yet though.

NWSpartan wrote:I was living not far from the riot of '99. As an upstanding citizen of EL I was none too happy with the disruption caused by the frequently rioting students of that day and age. A few weeks after the riot, to my surprise, I was called to jury duty for the trial of one of the rioters. Before the testimony even began, I knew he was guilty--drunk students had become very annoying. As it turned out he was neither drunk nor a rioter. He was a pacifist caught in the wrong place at the wrong time while he was trying to assist some students who had been tear gassed. He got stuck in the middle of the students throwing rocks on one side and the police marching toward him in riot gear on the other side. Instead of running to safety he sat alone in the middle of the road in a yoga pose to demonstrate his non-violence. When the police got to him as they were marching they picked him up and hauled him to jail. When the story unfolded during the trial it became apparent this was a gentle, kind soul who acted in a very stupid manner. To find him guilty would have meant ruining his life as his acceptance to a master's program would have been rescinded. He was found not guilty. The judge spoke to the jury afterward. He stated that technically the kid was guilty of the charge given, but he would not overrule the verdict as he also felt the kid panicked and didn't deserve to go to jail.

Interesting story. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah. Good stuff.

hoping LSJ met their weekly goal for online subscriptions with such insightful "journalism"..

Robert J Sakimano wrote:hoping LSJ met their weekly goal for online subscriptions with such insightful "journalism"..

Yeah, honestly that riot was a BFD and is significant part of the towns history. As the article points out there's more construction and investment pouring into EL now and that wouldn't have happened in the late 90's because of the riot. The town has 'grown up' and for those of us that care about EL lets hope that what happened in 99 never happens again.

I'm guilty of being a party animal in the mid 90's but from my view point now I look back on some of that behavior differently. That riot in 99 was a pretty dangerous situation and I look back on it glad that no one got killed.

steveschneider wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:hoping LSJ met their weekly goal for online subscriptions with such insightful "journalism"..

Yeah, honestly that riot was a BFD and is significant part of the towns history. As the article points out there's more construction and investment pouring into EL now and that wouldn't have happened in the late 90's because of the riot. The town has 'grown up' and for those of us that care about EL lets hope that what happened in 99 never happens again.

I'm guilty of being a party animal in the mid 90's but from my view point now I look back on some of that behavior differently. That riot in 99 was a pretty dangerous situation and I look back on it glad that no one got killed.

yeah - MSU and East Lansing handle things much more efficiently and effectively now. I suspect they learned a lot about what to do vs. what not to do. The University has done some very positive things relative to being proactive on gamedays/weekends where they anticipate large crowds (larger than normal, anyway) - so that's a good thing.

I was heavily involved.  Watched the game in Cedar Vill that night.  Tossed a few things in the fire.  Was dancing on top of one the overturned cars.  One of the girls that flashed the crowd was on my shoulders at the time.  I didn't touch but I was on the scene when they broke into and then set the cop car on fire. Also, I grabbed a tear gas canister and threw it back at the cops.  I recall having just enough sense to finally run away when someone threw a propane tank into one of the fires.

Ahhh, to be young & stupid.  I'm just happy I wasn't in any of the photos.  I'm in a lot of photos at the Munn Field riot though.  They didn't really go after anyone for that though.  Wasn't much destruction if I recall, just a big fire at Grand River & Abbott.

StylesGShmooth wrote:I was heavily involved.  Watched the game in Cedar Vill that night.  Tossed a few things in the fire.  Was dancing on top of one the overturned cars.  One of the girls that flashed the crowd was on my shoulders at the time.  I didn't touch but I was on the scene when they broke into and then set the cop car on fire. Also, I grabbed a tear gas canister and threw it back at the cops.  I recall having just enough sense to finally run away when someone threw a propane tank into one of the fires.

Ahhh, to be young & stupid.  I'm just happy I wasn't in any of the photos.  I'm in a lot of photos at the Munn Field riot though.  They didn't really go after anyone for that though.  Wasn't much destruction if I recall, just a big fire at Grand River & Abbott.

Hmmmm. Might have had to vote guilty had you been on trial....