Re: Dictatorship or Democracy? - 2022 Election

by NumbersDude Mon 25 Apr 2022 - 18:16

AvgMSUJoe wrote:And the enemy will be, what pedophile gender reassigners and gay groomers?

The .gov should never get involved in sexual preferences, gender decisions are up to the individual. As long as people are consenting adults, none of the .gov business.
Ignorance and intolerance is always the enemy.

by **MiamiSpartan** Mon 25 Apr 2022 - 19:43

NumbersDude wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

Dictators don't typically get elected running on a platform of dictatorship. The Nazis (sorry Travis) came to power legally and democratically. Then they went full dictator.

Dictators erode freedoms one law at a time, each law giving them more and more power. Then they drum of some enemy that only they can defeat. They must have more power to defeat and combat this enemy.
Look at history. Hilter, Pinochet, Putin, Luchenko, Xi,
Saddam, Fat Kim, Ortega, Chavez, Castro.

So you realize then that this is the concern with the behavior of Republicans (and I say that as someone who has only ever voted for two Democrats for president--both against Trump--, though that doesn't mean I always voted for Rs in the others). And that's why it doesn't take a dictator on the ballot for an election to result in a move toward a dictatorship.

by NumbersDude Mon 25 Apr 2022 - 20:12

MiamiSpartan wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

Dictators erode freedoms one law at a time, each law giving them more and more power. Then they drum of some enemy that only they can defeat. They must have more power to defeat and combat this enemy.
Look at history. Hilter, Pinochet, Putin, Luchenko, Xi,
Saddam, Fat Kim, Ortega, Chavez, Castro.

So you realize then that this is the concern with the behavior of Republicans (and I say that as someone who has only ever voted for two Democrats for president--both against Trump--, though that doesn't mean I always voted for Rs in the others). And that's why it doesn't take a dictator on the ballot for an election to result in a move toward a dictatorship.

Orangeman? He is a baffooon.
The R’s and the patriot act was a reaction to the terrorist attacks- but many of the provisions of the Patriot act can be and should be repealed.
War on drugs. Should end.
List out specific laws that you disagree with and I would probably agree with you.

I would rather have a discussion than the usual name calling.

by **MiamiSpartan** Mon 25 Apr 2022 - 22:46

NumbersDude wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

So you realize then that this is the concern with the behavior of Republicans (and I say that as someone who has only ever voted for two Democrats for president--both against Trump--, though that doesn't mean I always voted for Rs in the others). And that's why it doesn't take a dictator on the ballot for an election to result in a move toward a dictatorship.

Orangeman? He is a baffooon.
The R’s and the patriot act was a reaction to the terrorist attacks- but many of the provisions of the Patriot act can be and should be repealed.
War on drugs. Should end.
List out specific laws that you disagree with and I would probably agree with you.

I would rather have a discussion than the usual name calling.

What name calling did I do?

Either way, while I'm not at all a fan of the patriot act and other acts that limit freedom, I'm more concerned with the people who attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election and supported an insurrection, gaining power where they can use those laws that are already in place, and have the power to expand on those laws, in order to consolidate their power further.

by NumbersDude Mon 25 Apr 2022 - 23:14

MiamiSpartan wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

Orangeman? He is a baffooon.
The R’s and the patriot act was a reaction to the terrorist attacks- but many of the provisions of the Patriot act can be and should be repealed.
War on drugs. Should end.
List out specific laws that you disagree with and I would probably agree with you.

I would rather have a discussion than the usual name calling.

What name calling did I do?

Either way, while I'm not at all a fan of the patriot act and other acts that limit freedom, I'm more concerned with the people who attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election and supported an insurrection, gaining power where they can use those laws that are already in place, and have the power to expand on those laws, in order to consolidate their power further.

I don’t think the most powerful country in the world will and can get “overturned” without a single shot being fired on a single day. All the people that committed a crime that day by trespassing should be prosecuted.
No you have never called me silly names. Thanks.
Should Americans be able to protest their leaders? Absolutely. But when protest cross the line into criminal activity- they should be prosecuted and given fair trial.

by **MiamiSpartan** Tue 26 Apr 2022 - 6:50

NumbersDude wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

What name calling did I do?

Either way, while I'm not at all a fan of the patriot act and other acts that limit freedom, I'm more concerned with the people who attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election and supported an insurrection, gaining power where they can use those laws that are already in place, and have the power to expand on those laws, in order to consolidate their power further.

I don’t think the most powerful country in the world will and can get “overturned” without a single shot being fired on a single day. All the people that committed a crime that day by trespassing should be prosecuted.
No you have never called me silly names. Thanks.
Should Americans be able to protest their leaders? Absolutely. But when protest cross the line into criminal activity- they should be prosecuted and given fair trial.

Lol, yeah, it was only the rioters trying to overturn the election. Please, they posed the least danger to Democracy of everyone who tried to overturn the election.

by **duffy munn** Tue 26 Apr 2022 - 8:09

NumbersDude wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

What name calling did I do?

Either way, while I'm not at all a fan of the patriot act and other acts that limit freedom, I'm more concerned with the people who attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election and supported an insurrection, gaining power where they can use those laws that are already in place, and have the power to expand on those laws, in order to consolidate their power further.

I don’t think the most powerful country in the world will and can get “overturned” without a single shot being fired on a single day. All the people that committed a crime that day by trespassing should be prosecuted.
No you have never called me silly names. Thanks.
Should Americans be able to protest their leaders? Absolutely. But when protest cross the line into criminal activity- they should be prosecuted and given fair trial.

What about the guy that organized the "protest". You know, the sitting US President, who did nothing for hours as his beloved Patriots went looking to hang the sitting Vice President? Should be be tried?

by NumbersDude Tue 26 Apr 2022 - 8:45

duffy munn wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

I don’t think the most powerful country in the world will and can get “overturned” without a single shot being fired on a single day. All the people that committed a crime that day by trespassing should be prosecuted.
No you have never called me silly names. Thanks.
Should Americans be able to protest their leaders? Absolutely. But when protest cross the line into criminal activity- they should be prosecuted and given fair trial.

What about the guy that organized the "protest". You know, the sitting US President, who did nothing for hours as his beloved Patriots went looking to hang the sitting Vice President? Should be be tried?

I don’t believe in violence muffy.
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Dictatorship or Democracy? - 2022 Election - Page 2 200.gif?cid=ddb306a5qh2ifict6ex7tyx9tgfrvyvwbo71e8xgj11hy5x3&rid=200

by **duffy munn** Tue 26 Apr 2022 - 8:50

NumbersDude wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

What about the guy that organized the "protest". You know, the sitting US President, who did nothing for hours as his beloved Patriots went looking to hang the sitting Vice President? Should be be tried?

I don’t believe in violence muffy.

Or answering direct questions

by NumbersDude Tue 26 Apr 2022 - 8:56

duffy munn wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

I don’t believe in violence muffy.

Or answering direct questions

I don’t answer to racist that try to stereotype people muffy. Your overcompensation reveals your true nature. Kinda like penn. I suppose its indicative of your generation.

by AvgMSUJoe Tue 26 Apr 2022 - 9:14

NumbersDude wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

What name calling did I do?

Either way, while I'm not at all a fan of the patriot act and other acts that limit freedom, I'm more concerned with the people who attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election and supported an insurrection, gaining power where they can use those laws that are already in place, and have the power to expand on those laws, in order to consolidate their power further.

I don’t think the most powerful country in the world will and can get “overturned” without a single shot being fired on a single day. All the people that committed a crime that day by trespassing should be prosecuted.
No you have never called me silly names. Thanks.
Should Americans be able to protest their leaders? Absolutely. But when protest cross the line into criminal activity- they should be prosecuted and given fair trial.

So, say this actually happened...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/marjorie-taylor-greene-discussed-martial-law-trump-power/story?id=84302845

And Trump enacted "Marshal Law" because he lost... That wouldn't be a direct shot a democracy?

Not sure how anyone can support any R who bows to trump... and that's the VAST majority.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2022/04/25/division-trump-dominate-michigan-gop-doubts-surface-over-2022/7431575001/

by NumbersDude Tue 26 Apr 2022 - 9:20

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

I don’t think the most powerful country in the world will and can get “overturned” without a single shot being fired on a single day. All the people that committed a crime that day by trespassing should be prosecuted.
No you have never called me silly names. Thanks.
Should Americans be able to protest their leaders? Absolutely. But when protest cross the line into criminal activity- they should be prosecuted and given fair trial.

So, say this actually happened...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/marjorie-taylor-greene-discussed-martial-law-trump-power/story?id=84302845

And Trump enacted "Marshal Law" because he lost... That wouldn't be a direct shot a democracy?

Not sure how anyone can support any R who bows to trump... and that's the VAST majority.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2022/04/25/division-trump-dominate-michigan-gop-doubts-surface-over-2022/7431575001/

Release all emails, text messages from every member of congress, before, during and after that “insurrection” day.
All of them. From every elected member of congress.

by **duffy munn** Tue 26 Apr 2022 - 9:20

NumbersDude wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Or answering direct questions

I don’t answer to racist that try to stereotype people

Read this back to yourself and then google the definition of irony.

by NumbersDude Tue 26 Apr 2022 - 9:24

duffy munn wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

I don’t answer to racist that try to stereotype people

Read this back to yourself and then google the definition of irony.

“Not here”
Your hypocrisy is on display again. That and your overcompensation.

You have all the traits of real racist. And I know you hate oprah. So enjoy- you racist pile of crap. Just like penn.
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by **Trapper Gus** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 7:49

NumbersDude wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:

So, say this actually happened...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/marjorie-taylor-greene-discussed-martial-law-trump-power/story?id=84302845

And Trump enacted "Marshal Law" because he lost... That wouldn't be a direct shot a democracy?

Not sure how anyone can support any R who bows to trump... and that's the VAST majority.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2022/04/25/division-trump-dominate-michigan-gop-doubts-surface-over-2022/7431575001/

Release all emails, text messages from every member of congress, before, during and after that “insurrection” day.
All of them. From every elected member of congress.

Well, we have the ones who were trying to illegally overthrow Biden's election and the ones who weren't.

What is your point?

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 7:53

NumbersDude wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

What name calling did I do?

Either way, while I'm not at all a fan of the patriot act and other acts that limit freedom, I'm more concerned with the people who attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election and supported an insurrection, gaining power where they can use those laws that are already in place, and have the power to expand on those laws, in order to consolidate their power further.

I don’t think the most powerful country in the world will and can get “overturned” without a single shot being fired on a single day. All the people that committed a crime that day by trespassing should be prosecuted.
No you have never called me silly names. Thanks.
Should Americans be able to protest their leaders? Absolutely. But when protest cross the line into criminal activity- they should be prosecuted and given fair trial.

what do you think should happen to Trump when it is shown he was leading the whole effort, (as all the evidence points that way) aka the planned riot & the planned illegal throwing out of electors from certain States where the majority of the voters voted for Biden?

by **Jake from State Farm** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 8:08

Trapper Gus wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

I don’t think the most powerful country in the world will and can get “overturned” without a single shot being fired on a single day. All the people that committed a crime that day by trespassing should be prosecuted.
No you have never called me silly names. Thanks.
Should Americans be able to protest their leaders? Absolutely. But when protest cross the line into criminal activity- they should be prosecuted and given fair trial.

what do you think should happen to Trump when it is shown he was leading the whole effort, (as all the evidence points that way) aka the planned riot & the planned illegal throwing out of electors from certain States where the majority of the voters voted for Biden?

We don't throw ex-presidents in prison so that's out of the question. We have a first amendment so we can't force him to shut his pie hole. We can ban him from running for public office through the 14th amendment. The FEC could make him forfeit any campaign funds directly tied to him and also prevent him from funding his minions.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 8:19

Jake from State Farm wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

what do you think should happen to Trump when it is shown he was leading the whole effort, (as all the evidence points that way) aka the planned riot & the planned illegal throwing out of electors from certain States where the majority of the voters voted for Biden?

We don't throw ex-presidents in prison so that's out of the question. We have a first amendment so we can't force him to shut his pie hole. We can ban him from running for public office through the 14th amendment. The FEC could make him forfeit any campaign funds directly tied to him and also prevent him from funding his minions.

Well, most ex-Presidents haven't broken the law, Trump is an exception, just like Nixon who Ford shouldn't have pardoned.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 13:33

This editorial about the power ofbthe wealthy lending itself to authorisation belongs here more than in the Twitter thread.

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2022/4/27/2094386/-Too-much-Power-in-too-few-Hands-the-path-to-Authoritarianism

by NumbersDude Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 17:18

Trapper Gus wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

I don’t think the most powerful country in the world will and can get “overturned” without a single shot being fired on a single day. All the people that committed a crime that day by trespassing should be prosecuted.
No you have never called me silly names. Thanks.
Should Americans be able to protest their leaders? Absolutely. But when protest cross the line into criminal activity- they should be prosecuted and given fair trial.

what do you think should happen to Trump when it is shown he was leading the whole effort, (as all the evidence points that way) aka the planned riot & the planned illegal throwing out of electors from certain States where the majority of the voters voted for Biden?

A protest and Insurrection are two much different things. Are there videos of orangeman telling people to go home?

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 18:02

NumbersDude wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

what do you think should happen to Trump when it is shown he was leading the whole effort, (as all the evidence points that way) aka the planned riot & the planned illegal throwing out of electors from certain States where the majority of the voters voted for Biden?

A protest and Insurrection are two much different things. Are there videos of orangeman telling people to go home?

Yes they are and this was the latter.

A "peaceful protest" doesn't attack the police without provocation, nor are people killed during or as a result of it.

A "peaceful protest" doesn't have a second paramilitary unit attacking the building from another side, using the crowd as a distraction, alla Bengazi.

The second unit, carrying zip ties to immobilized the Congesspeople & Senators they were hoping to take hostage.

All of this planned weeks in advance, working with a "War Room" which during the Insurection was located in Virgina & at The Willard Hotel in Washington, the War Room at the Willard incuding a number of the Presidents closest advisors who had been working with Trump to overthrow the elected President-Elect for months, and had orginized both the "peaceful protest", including the paramilitary, and political allies in the Congress who were willing to go along with throwing out certified electors so Trump would win.

Trump, (meanwhile, like the coward he is), was watching and cheering for the protest, riot and the attempt to take hostages on the TeeVee for 5 hours, using burner phones to call people with, while slightly more sane coconspirators begged him by phone & text messages to call it off, which he did only after VP Pence refused to be driven away from the capital by the Trump controlled Secret Service, whom Pence said directly that he didn't trust, which was after VP Pence, just before the beginning of the electoral vote count had a letter delivered to Trump saying that he was bound by his oath to God to follow the Consitution, and the Consitution did not allow the VP to throw out certain States certified electors.

Some of this was publicly known during the Insurection, which had both the riot and the plan to throw out electors in the plan, and much of the background has come out from the January 6th committee public releases, and court records.

The January 6th committee is planning for a public hearing reporting process to present what has been found, starting, I think, in May.

It should be both fascinating & horrifying.

by **MiamiSpartan** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 18:10

NumbersDude wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

what do you think should happen to Trump when it is shown he was leading the whole effort, (as all the evidence points that way) aka the planned riot & the planned illegal throwing out of electors from certain States where the majority of the voters voted for Biden?

A protest and Insurrection are two much different things. Are there videos of orangeman telling people to go home?

Yup, he told them to go home...after the battle was lost....hours after it started, and only after Pence and all the Senators and Representatives were safe.

by **duffy munn** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 18:14

MiamiSpartan wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

A protest and Insurrection are two much different things. Are there videos of orangeman telling people to go home?

Yup, he told them to go home...after the battle was lost....hours after it started, and only after Pence and all the Senators and Representatives were safe.

And he watched it all live on TV while hammering Big Macs.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 18:15

MiamiSpartan wrote:
NumbersDude wrote:

A protest and Insurrection are two much different things. Are there videos of orangeman telling people to go home?

Yup, he told them to go home...after the battle was lost....hours after it started, and only after Pence and all the Senators and Representatives were safe.

Once it was clear that there would be no hostages and that the police were gaining control of the situation. Yes, it was clear the Insurrection was failing.

by **MiamiSpartan** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 18:16

Jake from State Farm wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

what do you think should happen to Trump when it is shown he was leading the whole effort, (as all the evidence points that way) aka the planned riot & the planned illegal throwing out of electors from certain States where the majority of the voters voted for Biden?

We don't throw ex-presidents in prison so that's out of the question. We have a first amendment so we can't force him to shut his pie hole. We can ban him from running for public office through the 14th amendment. The FEC could make him forfeit any campaign funds directly tied to him and also prevent him from funding his minions.

We've never had an ex-President commit sedition and attempt to organize an insurrection. I'm not prescient, but any precedent toward that president, should go out the window.

However, I will say that it is going to be hard to throw him in prison because politics.

by **MiamiSpartan** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 18:18

Trapper Gus wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

Yup, he told them to go home...after the battle was lost....hours after it started, and only after Pence and all the Senators and Representatives were safe.

Once it was clear that there would be no hostages and that the police were gaining control of the situation. Yes, it was clear the Insurrection was failing.

Putin didn't want to take Kyiv and overthrow Zelensky, as evidenced by the fact that he told those troops to leave the area around the city.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 27 Apr 2022 - 18:21

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Jake from State Farm wrote:

We don't throw ex-presidents in prison so that's out of the question. We have a first amendment so we can't force him to shut his pie hole. We can ban him from running for public office through the 14th amendment. The FEC could make him forfeit any campaign funds directly tied to him and also prevent him from funding his minions.

We've never had an ex-President commit sedition and attempt to organize an insurrection. I'm not prescient, but any precedent toward that president, should go out the window.

However, I will say that it is going to be hard to throw him in prison because politics.

One possible outcome, if people support it, is evoking the 14th's clause to bar him from public office.

The more dangerous situation for the next election is the Republician led States which are trying to both block people from voting and to claw back the legislatures power to decide who they want for President, ignoring the popular vote.

by **Turtleneck** Wed 13 Jul 2022 - 20:06

[tw]1547380373960953856[/tw]

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 14 Jul 2022 - 8:55

tNYT wrote:Most American voters say the country’s democracy doesn’t work, a New York Times/Siena College poll found. (Especially young voters.)

by RQA Thu 14 Jul 2022 - 9:16

What happened to old NumbersDude?

by AvgMSUJoe Thu 14 Jul 2022 - 10:45

RQA wrote:What happened to old NumbersDude?

did you loose the password or something?

by **Trapper Gus** Sat 16 Jul 2022 - 9:28

And so it continues ...

https://apnews.com/article/republican-primary-losers-claim-fraud-parroting-trump-7730988a009dfa0873e8133e19232562

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