Re: Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-12, 11:09

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

This "Karan" is having a fit over something that will not be in place for 9 years and which has not gone through the regulation review process. To compare, 9 years ago, 2014, BEV's had about 40 miles of range, maximum and public charging was non-existent.

But as an industry guy, you should know that incremental performance gains become increasingly more difficult.

Nine years isn't that far away. I think the only "Karen" thing about this is that it will all be for naught when the next administration nullifies it in February 2025.

There are counter currents in BEV development ongoing which make this not a typical incremental development cycle, for which, if it were, you would have a totally valid point, though there are economic issues at play which could slow technical development down a bit. edit - The interesting part will be how many OEM's survive.

The development of BEV's is still, in several ways, in the "before the Model T" era if we are to use a automotive analogy.

There are four major technologies at play: Batteries; Motors; Charging Systems; & Electronics.

Batteries have evolved from Pb-Acid to Li-Ion mostly due to the development of Li-Ion for personal electronics. There are many competing technologies in development & many more being researched. This are not incremental techs but mostly revolutionary techs. Even the architecture for batteries in vehicles is being revolutionized. Many of the vehicles currently on the market are using a 400V architecture, however the industry leaders in battery architecture are using an 800V architecture due to much faster charging and longer vehicle range. (Also, it should be mentioned under vehicle architecture that sub-systems will be scrubbed for efficiencies, such as cabin heaters, will be revolutionized to heat pumps, for efficiency, which will reduce the cold temperature range reduction issues)

Motors are also under intense research & development for both increases in efficiency, reductions in weight, and different placements such as a motor at each wheel of the vehicle.

Charging Systems are seeing the same types of research and development efforts, though I have not been following these as closely, so less detail on this. I expect new systems for residential use which store charge in an in-home battery when electric rates are low and transfer the charge to the vehicle when rates are higher, also possible serving as backup power for the residences or to the grid at peak loading times.

Electronics will facilitate a number of the development listed above, and the efficiency of on vehicle electronics will be increases dramatically, helping to increase range.

How long this revolutionary period of development will last is unknown, at this time, but probably not any less time that the time from the introduction of home computers to 5G smart phones. As an Engineer, especially as an Electrical & Electronics Engineer, I find this to be a very exciting period of time.

by TravelinMan 2023-04-12, 11:43

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

But as an industry guy, you should know that incremental performance gains become increasingly more difficult.

Nine years isn't that far away. I think the only "Karen" thing about this is that it will all be for naught when the next administration nullifies it in February 2025.

There are counter currents in BEV development ongoing which make this not a typical incremental development cycle, for which, if it were, you would have a totally valid point, though there are economic issues at play which could slow technical development down a bit. edit - The interesting part will be how many OEM's survive.

The development of BEV's is still, in several ways, in the "before the Model T" era if we are to use a automotive analogy.

There are four major technologies at play: Batteries; Motors; Charging Systems; & Electronics.

Batteries have evolved from Pb-Acid to Li-Ion mostly due to the development of Li-Ion for personal electronics. There are many competing technologies in development & many more being researched. This are not incremental techs but mostly revolutionary techs. Even the architecture for batteries in vehicles is being revolutionized. Many of the vehicles currently on the market are using a 400V architecture, however the industry leaders in battery architecture are using an 800V architecture due to much faster charging and longer vehicle range. (Also, it should be mentioned under vehicle architecture that sub-systems will be scrubbed for efficiencies, such as cabin heaters, will be revolutionized to heat pumps, for efficiency, which will reduce the cold temperature range reduction issues)

Motors are also under intense research & development for both increases in efficiency, reductions in weight, and different placements such as a motor at each wheel of the vehicle.

Charging Systems are seeing the same types of research and development efforts, though I have not been following these as closely, so less detail on this. I expect new systems for residential use which store charge in an in-home battery when electric rates are low and transfer the charge to the vehicle when rates are higher, also possible serving as backup power for the residences or to the grid at peak loading times.

Electronics will facilitate a number of the development listed above, and the efficiency of on vehicle electronics will be increases dramatically, helping to increase range.

How long this revolutionary period of development will last is unknown, at this time, but probably not any less time that the time from the introduction of home computers to 5G smart phones. As an Engineer, especially as an Electrical & Electronics Engineer, I find this to be a very exciting period of time.

I got my first home computer in 1981 and I got my first 5G phone in February. So.... LOL!

Your charging systems comments address commuters who go from A to A. There's still a lot of us out here going from A to B and beyond. Not only do we need to make charging centers more ubiquitous, but more reliable, and a hell of a lot faster.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-12, 11:55

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

There are counter currents in BEV development ongoing which make this not a typical incremental development cycle, for which, if it were, you would have a totally valid point, though there are economic issues at play which could slow technical development down a bit. edit - The interesting part will be how many OEM's survive.

The development of BEV's is still, in several ways, in the "before the Model T" era if we are to use a automotive analogy.

There are four major technologies at play: Batteries; Motors; Charging Systems; & Electronics.

Batteries have evolved from Pb-Acid to Li-Ion mostly due to the development of Li-Ion for personal electronics. There are many competing technologies in development & many more being researched. This are not incremental techs but mostly revolutionary techs. Even the architecture for batteries in vehicles is being revolutionized. Many of the vehicles currently on the market are using a 400V architecture, however the industry leaders in battery architecture are using an 800V architecture due to much faster charging and longer vehicle range. (Also, it should be mentioned under vehicle architecture that sub-systems will be scrubbed for efficiencies, such as cabin heaters, will be revolutionized to heat pumps, for efficiency, which will reduce the cold temperature range reduction issues)

Motors are also under intense research & development for both increases in efficiency, reductions in weight, and different placements such as a motor at each wheel of the vehicle.

Charging Systems are seeing the same types of research and development efforts, though I have not been following these as closely, so less detail on this. I expect new systems for residential use which store charge in an in-home battery when electric rates are low and transfer the charge to the vehicle when rates are higher, also possible serving as backup power for the residences or to the grid at peak loading times.

Electronics will facilitate a number of the development listed above, and the efficiency of on vehicle electronics will be increases dramatically, helping to increase range.

How long this revolutionary period of development will last is unknown, at this time, but probably not any less time that the time from the introduction of home computers to 5G smart phones. As an Engineer, especially as an Electrical & Electronics Engineer, I find this to be a very exciting period of time.

I got my first home computer in 1981 and I got my first 5G phone in February. So..... LOL!

Your charging systems comments address commuters who go from A to A. There's still a lot of us out here going from A to B and beyond. Not only do we need to make charging centers more ubiquitous, but more reliable, and a hell of a lot faster.

Pretty much my point, this revolutionary period will be ongoing for quite a while.

Charger development, technically, isn't something I follow as closely, and the roll out of infrastructures I am only aware of at all due to the IRA. I have always agreed that it is a limiting factor in BEV taking over the vehicle marketplace, though the EIA estimated that 80% of vehicle charging will be at home.

by TravelinMan 2023-04-12, 14:32

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I got my first home computer in 1981 and I got my first 5G phone in February. So..... LOL!

Your charging systems comments address commuters who go from A to A. There's still a lot of us out here going from A to B and beyond. Not only do we need to make charging centers more ubiquitous, but more reliable, and a hell of a lot faster.

Pretty much my point, this revolutionary period will be ongoing for quite a while.

Charger development, technically, isn't something I follow as closely, and the roll out of infrastructures I am only aware of at all due to the IRA. I have always agreed that it is a limiting factor in BEV taking over the vehicle marketplace, though the EIA estimated that 80% of vehicle charging will be at home.

Which is always sort of my complaint. Hey - good news - 80% of the people should do great. What about the 20%? Well they can go fuck themselves, I guess.

Good thing I'm handy with a wrench. My ICE vehicles are going to have to outlive me.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-12, 15:53

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Pretty much my point, this revolutionary period will be ongoing for quite a while.

Charger development, technically, isn't something I follow as closely, and the roll out of infrastructures I am only aware of at all due to the IRA. I have always agreed that it is a limiting factor in BEV taking over the vehicle marketplace, though the EIA estimated that 80% of vehicle charging will be at home.

Which is always sort of my complaint. Hey - good news - 80% of the people should do great. What about the 20%? Well they can go fuck themselves, I guess.

Good thing I'm handy with a wrench. My ICE vehicles are going to have to outlive me.

Which comes back around to one of the reasons this seems, to me, to be as significant a change as the PC/Cell Phone/internet change.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/sila-titan-nano-composite-silicon-anode/

https://insideevs.com/news/662409/storedot-upcoming-batteries-make-evs-more-accessible/

https://apnews.com/article/china-auto-electric-vehicle-0ea339b7be33090b222169fd433cf51c

https://jalopnik.com/ev-transition-fossil-fuel-production-us-emissions-laws-1850334111

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/14/ask-a-scientist-the-electric-car-power-grids-shared-future/

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-16, 11:40

One point to be made about the EV revolution, it isn't just about EV's, it is about energy in general, thus the switch to renewable generation is part of it, at least as far as I am concerned.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/12/world/wind-solar-renewables-record-climate-intl/index.html

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-16, 17:09

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/16/the-25000-ev-is-coming-with-big-implications-for-car-buyers.html

So EV's at $25k are coming soon to a dealer near you.

by TravelinMan 2023-04-16, 19:20

Trapper Gus wrote:https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/16/the-25000-ev-is-coming-with-big-implications-for-car-buyers.html

So EV's at $25k are coming soon to a dealer near you.

Eh... Tesla's been promising a $30K EV for a while now. Of course, Tesla promises a lot of things that end up being delayed or cancelled, so... who knows?

The Chevy Bolt is a sardine can sized piece of shit. No thanks. Don't want to get hit by one of the new 9000 lb. Hummers in that thing. Yikes!

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-16, 21:55

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/16/the-25000-ev-is-coming-with-big-implications-for-car-buyers.html

So EV's at $25k are coming soon to a dealer near you.

Eh... Tesla's been promising a $30K EV for a while now. Of course, Tesla promises a lot of things that end up being delayed or cancelled, so... who knows?

The Chevy Bolt is a sardine can sized piece of shit. No thanks. Don't want to get hit by one of the new 9000 lb. Hummers in that thing. Yikes!

The M1 Tank weighs 50 tons plus, but not something 100% of the population needs to drive.

You lack of understanding of automotive safety engineering would fill a library.

by TravelinMan 2023-04-17, 01:14

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Eh... Tesla's been promising a $30K EV for a while now. Of course, Tesla promises a lot of things that end up being delayed or cancelled, so... who knows?

The Chevy Bolt is a sardine can sized piece of shit. No thanks. Don't want to get hit by one of the new 9000 lb. Hummers in that thing. Yikes!

The M1 Tank weighs 50 tons plus, but not something 100% of the population needs to drive.

You lack of understanding of automotive safety engineering would fill a library.

STFU. You don't need a degree in "automotive safety engineering" to understand that a 9,000 lb. SUV hitting a subcompact car in an accident would cause some serious damage. That's 9th grade physics.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-17, 07:14

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

The M1 Tank weighs 50 tons plus, but not something 100% of the population needs to drive.

You lack of understanding of automotive safety engineering would fill a library.

STFU. You don't need a degree in "automotive safety engineering" to understand that a 9,000 lb. SUV hitting a subcompact car in an accident would cause some serious damage. That's 9th grade physics.

But you do need one to understand that the subcompact is designed to protect the passengers, and, in many situations, they will walk away from the crash. At higher closing velocities weight isn't your friend for safety, either. It just means the crash impact has more energy that your heavy vehicle has to be designed to absorb to protect you.

Vehicles have to be designed to protect the occupants when the vehicle is crashed at 35 mph into a stationary wall or being hit at 35 mph from the side.

by TravelinMan 2023-04-17, 11:15

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

STFU. You don't need a degree in "automotive safety engineering" to understand that a 9,000 lb. SUV hitting a subcompact car in an accident would cause some serious damage. That's 9th grade physics.

But you do need one to understand that the subcompact is designed to protect the passengers, and, in many situations, they will walk away from the crash. At higher closing velocities weight isn't your friend for safety, either. It just means the crash impact has more energy that your heavy vehicle has to be designed to absorb to protect you.

Vehicles have to be designed to protect the occupants when the vehicle is crashed at 35 mph into a stationary wall or being hit at 35 mph from the side.

Exactly! They haven't been designed for being hit by some distracted soccer mommy driving a 9,000 lb. SUV. All the airbags in the world aren't going to save you if you're flat. LOL!

EVs are the in thing right now. I get that. But they're frickin' heavy and there's going to be some downsides to that. Higher death rates in accidents and a bigger impact on the quality of our roads are just two things that are obvious. It's OK. It doesn't make them bad. It's just something we need to look at and figure out.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-17, 12:42

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

But you do need one to understand that the subcompact is designed to protect the passengers, and, in many situations, they will walk away from the crash. At higher closing velocities weight isn't your friend for safety, either. It just means the crash impact has more energy that your heavy vehicle has to be designed to absorb to protect you.

Vehicles have to be designed to protect the occupants when the vehicle is crashed at 35 mph into a stationary wall or being hit at 35 mph from the side.

Exactly! They haven't been designed for being hit by some distracted soccer mommy driving a 9,000 lb. SUV. All the airbags in the world aren't going to save you if you're flat. LOL!

EVs are the in thing right now. I get that. But they're frickin' heavy and there's going to be some downsides to that. Higher death rates in accidents and a bigger impact on the quality of our roads are just two things that are obvious. It's OK. It doesn't make them bad. It's just something we need to look at and figure out.

Seems like we have had the discussion about vehicle weight and crashes before, but maybe it was a different poster. Also the question of weight and wear on roads was discussed, again maybe it wasn't with you.

So: f(t) = m * a(t)

Vehicles are designed for a minimum "a(t)" equivalent to the vehicle running into a solid wall at 35 mph. The protection for the occupants is due to the time it takes for the vehicle & occupants to stop moving, which is determined by how much energy the "crumple zones" absorb and how much energy the air bags and seat belts absorb from the occupants. The solid crash wall is an infinite weight vehicle. It absorbs no energy. As long as the combined speeds are less that 35 mph in a vehicle to vehicle crash the vehicles both are designed to protect their occupants. The weight of each vehicle is not a factor. Typically there will be some margin and the vehicles will protect to a higher mph.

As to the wear on the roads due to vehicle weight, that depends on the roads design. The road has an elastic weigh limit, and vehicles below that weight do negligible damage to the road. Clearly highways, designed for the weight of semis, are not going to be damaged by EV's. Neither are most paved roads with designed road beds. Gravel roads, and low quality paved roads might see some additional wear, maybe, but not much.

by **StylesGShmooth** 2023-04-17, 21:03

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Mine isn’t top range by any means, and I’ve seen 30 mph easily, so I’m sure some models can go even faster.

I asked because as a long time motorcycle rider I am wondering about safety. f(t) = ma means the force is the square of the speed, afterall. While in most states motorcyclists are required to take a MOST course to be licensed I'm guessing there are no licensing requirements for ebike riders.

Well antyhing over 750w is considered a motorcycle and thus all those laws apply. Mine, of course, is a 750. It's primarily a pedal assist bike so it doesn't start adding thrust until you start pedaling and when going that route I can easily reach upper 20s to low 30s. Of course I opted for the optional lazy man's thrust kit where you can go all motor. On flat ground I can get it a little shy of 20 mph that way. Of cousre bear in mind I am well over 300 lbs. I sense some laws and things coming soon. I'm just hoping I'm not the first DUI on an e-bike.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-20, 08:28

https://apnews.com/article/tesla-price-cut-tax-credit-a75540dc2ad3ef45d3c4e437b97b17b6

DETROIT (AP) — Tesla dropped the starting prices for its two top-selling models overnight, the company’s fourth price cut in the U.S. this year.

The company lopped $3,000, or about 6%, off the starting prices for all three versions of the Model Y small SUV, Tesla’s top-seller. It also cut $2,000, or about 5%, from the starting price of a version of the Model 3 small sedan.

Tesla could have cut the Model 3 prices to make more cars loaded with options eligible for the U.S. government’s $7,500 electric vehicle tax credit. With options, some Model 3s would exceed the government’s $55,000 price limit for cars to be eligible for the credit.

https://apnews.com/article/tesla-raise-prices-stock-drop-model-s-6a267085445c0373aee2aa6ab7c57738

DETROIT (AP) — After cutting U.S. vehicle prices four times this year, Tesla raised the cost overnight on its slow-selling more expensive models.

The hike could be an effort to appease investors, who dumped shares of Tesla on Thursday after its earnings and profit margins dropped due to previous price cuts.

https://apnews.com/article/toyota-ev-emissions-autos-toyoda-4bf350ee9df04d55815e01901e634040

TOKYO (AP) — Toyota’s new president Koji Sato has promised what he called an aggressive shift on “electrification,” while acknowledging criticism that Japan’s top automaker has fallen behind in actual volumes of electric vehicles sold compared to its rivals.

“We like to see that as people cheering Toyota on,” to play catchup in electric cars, Sato told reporters Friday at Toyota Motor Corp.’s Tokyo headquarters.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-04-21, 16:43

https://www.motortrend.com/news/sandy-munro-tesla-ev-solid-state-sodium-ion-battery/

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-05-01, 10:46

https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery/

Here is another report on an advanced battery technology. Battery tech is a hotbed of research & development currently, and it would be a surprise if new tech doesn't replace the existing tech for these. Right now Tesla is using a new tech which makes their older tech obsolete.

by TravelinMan 2023-05-01, 11:44

Trapper Gus wrote:https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery/

Here is another report on an advanced battery technology. Battery tech is a hotbed of research & development currently, and it would be a surprise if new tech doesn't replace the existing tech for these. Right now Tesla is using a new tech which makes their older tech obsolete.

I'm sure people who spent $60K+ for their spiffy new EV a couple of years ago are thrilled to learn that their technology is now "obsolete." LOL

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-05-01, 12:01

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery/

Here is another report on an advanced battery technology. Battery tech is a hotbed of research & development currently, and it would be a surprise if new tech doesn't replace the existing tech for these. Right now Tesla is using a new tech which makes their older tech obsolete.

I'm sure people who spent $60K+ for their spiffy new EV a couple of years ago are thrilled to learn that their technology is now "obsolete." LOL

They knew what they were buying and for the most part the EV's perform as promised.

My 12 year old Escape doesn't have blind spot detection, lane tracking, collision avoidance braking / steering or adaptive cruise control. Should I be pissed?

by **kingstonlake** 2023-05-01, 12:49

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:https://newatlas.com/energy/catl-500-wh-kg-condensed-battery/

Here is another report on an advanced battery technology. Battery tech is a hotbed of research & development currently, and it would be a surprise if new tech doesn't replace the existing tech for these. Right now Tesla is using a new tech which makes their older tech obsolete.

I'm sure people who spent $60K+ for their spiffy new EV a couple of years ago are thrilled to learn that their technology is now "obsolete." LOL

I still have an iPhone X. I didn't lose my mind over the iPhone 11, 12,13, or 14. They all work great Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 9 2943907172

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 9 2943907172

by TravelinMan 2023-05-01, 14:58

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I'm sure people who spent $60K+ for their spiffy new EV a couple of years ago are thrilled to learn that their technology is now "obsolete." LOL

They knew what they were buying and for the most part the EV's perform as promised.

My 12 year old Escape doesn't have blind spot detection, lane tracking, collision avoidance braking / steering or adaptive cruise control. Should I be pissed?

My personal opinions?

Blind spot detection. Nice, but super annoying when going down a narrow trail and it starts flashing like a Christmas tree at ever bush and branch you pass.

Lane tracking. No. I don't like cars that do things without my input. Not cool.

Collision avoidance. See above. Don't be doing stuff that I'm not inputting.

Adaptive cruise. I never use this. I much prefer regular cruise. I can tap the brakes myself, thanks. The only time adaptive cruise is even close to useful is when following a friend that never uses cruise control and can't seem to maintain a constant speed. I won't name names but she knows who she is.

Now... driving something as soul sucking as a 12 year old Escape? Yeah, for that alone, I think you've got reasons to be angry. But hey, to each their own. :)

by **kingstonlake** 2023-05-01, 15:14

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

They knew what they were buying and for the most part the EV's perform as promised.

My 12 year old Escape doesn't have blind spot detection, lane tracking, collision avoidance braking / steering or adaptive cruise control. Should I be pissed?

My personal opinions?

Blind spot detection. Nice, but super annoying when going down a narrow trail and it starts flashing like a Christmas tree at ever bush and branch you pass.

Lane tracking. No. I don't like cars that do things without my input. Not cool.

Collision avoidance. See above. Don't be doing stuff that I'm not inputting.

Adaptive cruise. I never use this. I much prefer regular cruise. I can tap the brakes myself, thanks. The only time adaptive cruise is even close to useful is when following a friend that never uses cruise control and can't seem to maintain a constant speed. I won't name names but she knows who she is.

Now... driving something as soul sucking as a 12 year old Escape? Yeah, for that alone, I think you've got reasons to be angry. But hey, to each their own. :)

Don't be so hard on a 12 year old Ford escape. It's currently re badged as a 2023 Ford Bronco

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-05-01, 16:12

kingstonlake wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

My personal opinions?

Blind spot detection. Nice, but super annoying when going down a narrow trail and it starts flashing like a Christmas tree at ever bush and branch you pass.

Lane tracking. No. I don't like cars that do things without my input. Not cool.

Collision avoidance. See above. Don't be doing stuff that I'm not inputting.

Adaptive cruise. I never use this. I much prefer regular cruise. I can tap the brakes myself, thanks. The only time adaptive cruise is even close to useful is when following a friend that never uses cruise control and can't seem to maintain a constant speed. I won't name names but she knows who she is.

Now... driving something as soul sucking as a 12 year old Escape? Yeah, for that alone, I think you've got reasons to be angry. But hey, to each their own. :)

Don't be so hard on a 12 year old Ford escape. It's currently re badged as a 2023 Ford Bronco

Well the 2022 Bronco Sport has better fuel economy than the 2012 Escape Hybrid, due to European engine technology advances, forced by EU requirements, should I be pissed that free market driven vehicles designed in the US like the Escape didn't have these advances?

by TravelinMan 2023-05-01, 16:15

kingstonlake wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

My personal opinions?

Blind spot detection. Nice, but super annoying when going down a narrow trail and it starts flashing like a Christmas tree at ever bush and branch you pass.

Lane tracking. No. I don't like cars that do things without my input. Not cool.

Collision avoidance. See above. Don't be doing stuff that I'm not inputting.

Adaptive cruise. I never use this. I much prefer regular cruise. I can tap the brakes myself, thanks. The only time adaptive cruise is even close to useful is when following a friend that never uses cruise control and can't seem to maintain a constant speed. I won't name names but she knows who she is.

Now... driving something as soul sucking as a 12 year old Escape? Yeah, for that alone, I think you've got reasons to be angry. But hey, to each their own. :)

Don't be so hard on a 12 year old Ford escape. It's currently re badged as a 2023 Ford Bronco

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 9 Ea2a889f-d2c3-4bce-9393-d14337b34a37-jpeg

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-05-01, 18:50

TravelinMan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Don't be so hard on a 12 year old Ford escape. It's currently re badged as a 2023 Ford Bronco

Oh please.

The Bronco Sport comes in 4 versions, and that one is not the 4by4 version.

That one doesn't even have off road tires.

In addition, it is the full-sized Bronco that is the completion for whatever sad assed 4by4 that red thing is.

by TravelinMan 2023-05-01, 19:28

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Oh please.

The Bronco Sport comes in 4 versions, and that one is not the 4by4 version.

That one doesn't even have off road tires.

In addition, it is the full-sized Bronco that is the completion for whatever sad assed 4by4 that red thing is.

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 9 Be30d5f0-6307-4b7a-8cbe-951d80aeba36-jpeg

by AvgMSUJoe 2023-05-01, 19:36

I have a trailblazer and am perfectly fine with the state of my weiner.

by TravelinMan 2023-05-01, 19:38

AvgMSUJoe wrote:I have a trailblazer and am perfectly fine with the state of my weiner.

I'm sure it blazes trails to the mall and back very well.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-05-01, 19:43

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh please.

The Bronco Sport comes in 4 versions, and that one is not the 4by4 version.

That one doesn't even have off road tires.

In addition, it is the full-sized Bronco that is the completion for whatever sad assed 4by4 that red thing is.

Weak-assed pretend Bronco, just before Ford rebadged it as the Explorer.

College roommate had a real Bronco II in the early 1970's. Had locking hubs, if you even know what those are, and a low range transfer case, and the full-sized Bronco in that time frame was a short bed F100 4x4 with a different body.

by TravelinMan 2023-05-01, 19:59

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Weak-assed pretend Bronco, just before Ford rebadged it as the Explorer.

College roommate had a real Bronco II in the early 1970's. Had locking hubs, if you even know what those are, and a low range transfer case, and the full-sized Bronco in that time frame was a short bed F100 4x4 with a different body.

Yeah. We call those the price of entry in my neighborhood. LOL!

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-05-01, 20:03

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Weak-assed pretend Bronco, just before Ford rebadged it as the Explorer.

College roommate had a real Bronco II in the early 1970's. Had locking hubs, if you even know what those are, and a low range transfer case, and the full-sized Bronco in that time frame was a short bed F100 4x4 with a different body.

Yeah. We call those the price of entry in my neighborhood. LOL!

I would question if that "Bronco" in the picture even has a transfer case.

by AvgMSUJoe 2023-05-01, 21:04

TravelinMan wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:I have a trailblazer and am perfectly fine with the state of my weiner.

I'm sure it blazes trails to the mall and back very well.

Work (occasionally), dropping the kid at school and Kroger...

You scale mountains in feet of mud on the daily?

My AWD is used 2-3 days a year, maybe?

by TravelinMan 2023-05-02, 00:13

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I'm sure it blazes trails to the mall and back very well.
Work (occasionally), dropping the kid at school and Kroger...

You scale mountains in feet of mud on the daily?

My AWD is used 2-3 days a year, maybe?

Daily? No. But I’ve done it within the last 10 days. Need to be ready for it maybe 5-6 months a year?

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-05-02, 07:26

TravelinMan wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:
Work (occasionally), dropping the kid at school and Kroger...

You scale mountains in feet of mud on the daily?

My AWD is used 2-3 days a year, maybe?

Daily? No. But I’ve done it within the last 10 days. Need to be ready for it maybe 5-6 months a year?

Unless you have a power winch on the front you aren't ready to go off road.

by TravelinMan 2023-05-02, 09:17

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Daily? No. But I’ve done it within the last 10 days. Need to be ready for it maybe 5-6 months a year?

Unless you have a power winch on the front you aren't ready to go off road.

Sounds like I’m ready then.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2023-05-02, 09:46

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 9 502811600

every time I see the big tough guys driving their trucks, muddy jeeps, etc., I think back to this article.. it's pretty classic.

You Don’t Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume

freedom ain't free.. drive your trucks and carry your guns, white men of America. Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 9 502811600

by TravelinMan 2023-05-02, 09:57

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

every time I see the big tough guys driving their trucks, muddy jeeps, etc., I think back to this article.. it's pretty classic.

You Don’t Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume

freedom ain't free.. drive your trucks and carry your guns, white men of America.

Yeah, nothing better than dirty hippies from the city gatekeeping people they know nothing about.

(To be clear, I was referring to the author of the linked article, not you Bob. I could see how some people might be confused.)

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2023-05-02, 10:22

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:

every time I see the big tough guys driving their trucks, muddy jeeps, etc., I think back to this article.. it's pretty classic.

You Don’t Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume

freedom ain't free.. drive your trucks and carry your guns, white men of America.

Yeah, nothing better than dirty hippies from the city gatekeeping people they know nothing about.

(To be clear, I was referring to the author of the linked article, not you Bob. I could see how some people might be confused.)

I didn't think you were.. I certainly ain't from the city, I ain't (normally) dirty and I ain't a hippie (whatever that even means)... Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 9 969504605

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 9 969504605

you do you, dude. Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 9 3493939353

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-05-02, 10:27

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:

every time I see the big tough guys driving their trucks, muddy jeeps, etc., I think back to this article.. it's pretty classic.

You Don’t Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume

freedom ain't free.. drive your trucks and carry your guns, white men of America.

Yeah, nothing better than dirty hippies from the city gatekeeping people they know nothing about.

(To be clear, I was referring to the author of the linked article, not you Bob. I could see how some people might be confused.)

Nothing like an emotional irrational response to an article filled with data, but that is why we love you TM.

I don't consider the full-sized pickup trucks of today to be anything other than toys. Sure, the OEM's have created a market for these things, but as a working truck they are pieces of shit, something that the article really doesn't talk about.

First and foremost, the working part of the truck, namely the bed & cab floor, are way too high to load or climb into practically, as since the main function of a pickup truck is to load up the back with stuff and take it somewhere, this is a pretty big defect.

Second, WTF, where is the 8-foot bed needed to haul sheets of almost any building material.

Third, a truck seldom needs a back seat, unless your taking workers out to a site, and even then two vehicles are a better option.

So, the authors 'mild roasting of the miss between truck functionality and what the typical, now, owner uses them for is pretty much spot on, even without reviewing the actual truck use functionality.

No wonder most truck owners use them as cars, as really that is all they are good for, IMO.

by TravelinMan 2023-05-02, 10:33

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Yeah, nothing better than dirty hippies from the city gatekeeping people they know nothing about.

(To be clear, I was referring to the author of the linked article, not you Bob. I could see how some people might be confused.)

Nothing like an emotional irrational response to an article filled with data, but that is why we love you TM.

I don't consider the full-sized pickup trucks of today to be anything other than toys. Sure, the OEM's have created a market for these things, but as a working truck they are pieces of shit, something that the article really doesn't talk about.

First and foremost, the working part of the truck, namely the bed & cab floor, are way too high to load or climb into practically, as since the main function of a pickup truck is to load up the back with stuff and take it somewhere, this is a pretty big defect.

Second, WTF, where is the 8-foot bed needed to haul sheets of almost any building material.

Third, a truck seldom needs a back seat, unless your taking workers out to a site, and even then two vehicles are a better option.

So, the authors 'mild roasting of the miss between truck functionality and what the typical, now, owner uses them for is pretty much spot on, even without reviewing the actual truck use functionality.

No wonder most truck owners use them as cars, as really that is all they are good for, IMO.

That seems to be the difference between liberals and libertarians. The far left will loudly proclaim how others should live their lives and how the choices they've made are wrong. I'll just sit and judge you silently while being thankful we all still have choices in life.

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