Re: Regardless of your feelings on abortion...

by Guest 2015-08-23, 09:38

Ass Dan wrote:
Dr. Strangelove wrote:Spin any way you want it comes down to PP traffics in dead baby parts

Can't care. If it leads to a cure for deadly diseases then I'm fine with it. Those babies are dead anyways.

So you're ok with killing the helpless to possibly cure a disease? If you've been following the videos as they've been released the babies aren't dead until they stop the hearts outside the mother. That's pure murder.

by **Tim Wakefield** 2015-08-23, 10:48

Looks like this firework of a thread is about to go off.

I'm all for "rights of women" or whatever justification is used for abortion (I personally think it's wrong in 99% of cases but w/e), but at what cost does those rights come? Killing babies when they're outside the mother's womb? That makes me sick.

I guess the thing that bothers me the most about abortion is that the vast majority are due to convenience. If a woman was raped, a victim of incest, or will die from complications, then obviously an abortion is in order and is probably the right decision. All too often though, I think they get pregnant by accident and want to get out of it by killing the baby. It's not for "lack of respect for women" that I hate the concept of abortion, it's the fact that a baby is being KILLED to avoid taking responsibility in most cases. I guess that makes me an asshole.

by **DWags** 2015-08-23, 11:13

Tim Wakefield wrote:Looks like this firework of a thread is about to go off.

I'm all for "rights of women" or whatever justification is used for abortion (I personally think it's wrong in 99% of cases but w/e), but at what cost does those rights come? Killing babies when they're outside the mother's womb? That makes me sick.

I guess the thing that bothers me the most about abortion is that the vast majority are due to convenience. If a woman was raped, a victim of incest, or will die from complications, then obviously an abortion is in order and is probably the right decision. All too often though, I think they get pregnant by accident and want to get out of it by killing the baby. It's not for "lack of respect for women" that I hate the concept of abortion, it's the fact that a baby is being KILLED to avoid taking responsibility in most cases. I guess that makes me an asshole.

We've all heard about the freakonomics article. Here it is. I don't have an answer, but I don't think it's as easy as "convenience". If a kid can't be raised properly, what effect will they have on our society as an unwanted person? Way too complicated to figure out or come up with an answer to. Murder rates have dropped since Roe V. Wade. Why? Who knows, freakonomics has an opinion, but probably not an answer.

Did Roe V.Wade bring down murder rates and crime?

by Guest 2015-08-23, 12:18

Tim Wakefield wrote:I guess the thing that bothers me the most about abortion is that the vast majority are due to convenience. If a woman was raped, a victim of incest, or will die from complications, then obviously an abortion is in order and is probably the right decision.

Not to pick a fight with you but with the "exceptions" arguments in general.

Why is an abortion "obviously in order"?

What other circumstance do we endorse a mother killing her child to save herself?

Why should the child die in the case of rape or incest? Did the innocent child commit either act? Obviously they didn't, yet they should suffer the ultimate punishment? In essence what you're saying here is "This man raped this woman, so let's kill this child.", yeah that makes sense.

Sorry folks I think the normal "exceptions" that people mindlessly endorse are not so simple if you think about them and whether they're right.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-08-23, 13:23

LooseGoose wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:I guess the thing that bothers me the most about abortion is that the vast majority are due to convenience. If a woman was raped, a victim of incest, or will die from complications, then obviously an abortion is in order and is probably the right decision.
Not to pick a fight with you but with the "exceptions" arguments in general.

Why is an abortion "obviously in order"?

What other circumstance do we endorse a mother killing her child to save herself?

Why should the child die in the case of rape or incest? Did the innocent child commit either act? Obviously they didn't, yet they should suffer the ultimate punishment? In essence what you're saying here is "This man raped this woman, so let's kill this child.", yeah that makes sense.

Sorry folks I think the normal "exceptions" that people mindlessly endorse are not so simple if you think about them and whether they're right.

Stupid, bad, post. You really don't get why women that are raped would have an abortion? Seriously?

It blows my mind that people still think this way.

by Guest 2015-08-23, 15:30

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:
Not to pick a fight with you but with the "exceptions" arguments in general.

Why is an abortion "obviously in order"?

What other circumstance do we endorse a mother killing her child to save herself?

Why should the child die in the case of rape or incest? Did the innocent child commit either act? Obviously they didn't, yet they should suffer the ultimate punishment? In essence what you're saying here is "This man raped this woman, so let's kill this child.", yeah that makes sense.

Sorry folks I think the normal "exceptions" that people mindlessly endorse are not so simple if you think about them and whether they're right.

Stupid, bad, post. You really don't get why women that are raped would have an abortion? Seriously?
It blows my mind that people still think this way.

Oh I get why they would like to have one. The question is whether they morally have the right to terminate a life. I don't know why someone wondering that would blow your mind.

Do you believe the woman has the right to execute her rapist? If not, then tell me why she should have the right to terminate the life of this innocent child. The way the law is structured today she doesn't legally have the right to lay a finger on the guilty while being encouraged to terminate the life of the innocent. Somehow that doesn't blow your mind.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-08-23, 15:44

LooseGoose wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Stupid, bad, post. You really don't get why women that are raped would have an abortion? Seriously?
It blows my mind that people still think this way.
Oh I get why they would like to have one. The question is whether they morally have the right to terminate a life. I don't know why someone wondering that would blow your mind.

Do you believe the woman has the right to execute her rapist? If not, then tell me why she should have the right to terminate the life of this innocent child. The way the law is structured today she doesn't legally have the right to lay a finger on the guilty while being encouraged to terminate the life of the innocent. Somehow that doesn't blow your mind.

Because we are a civilized society and don't just kill anyone that does us wrong, allowing the law of the land to take care of it in court with evidence and facts?

Because it is her body and she shouldn't be forced to have a child? The rapist walks to jail while she has a child to take care of the rest of her life - or deal with the psychological effects of it by having birth or putting the child up for adoption.

It's pretty simple, not sure why people are so concerned with what females do with their own body. Don't get an abortion if you don't believe in it. Stay the hell out of people's businesses and lives. Small government, less power, right? Oh wait, that's only when it fits your agenda.

by Guest 2015-08-23, 15:48

Some facts for my friend BobS when he arrives:

Abortions per day in the US - 3000 Approx.
Firearms Homicides per day in the US - 31 Approx
People killed by police per day in the US - 3 Approx.

If you really want to fight to save innocent lives that should tell you where to start.
==========

More black babies were aborted in NY over the last number of years than were born.

2013 Born 24,758 Aborted 31,328

Couldn't find exact numbers for other years but they're similar. Why does the Democrat party support these killers of black children? Does BobS join Planned Parenthood in celebrating these milestones in "women's health"?

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-08-23, 15:52

Goose, say these "children" (can you even call them that?) are born.. who is going to support them? feed them? give them opportunities to get an education?

Chances are, the mother or father can't. You going to? The government?

by Guest 2015-08-23, 15:55

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:
Oh I get why they would like to have one. The question is whether they morally have the right to terminate a life. I don't know why someone wondering that would blow your mind.

Do you believe the woman has the right to execute her rapist? If not, then tell me why she should have the right to terminate the life of this innocent child. The way the law is structured today she doesn't legally have the right to lay a finger on the guilty while being encouraged to terminate the life of the innocent. Somehow that doesn't blow your mind.
Because we are a civilized society and don't just kill anyone that does us wrong, allowing the law of the land to take care of it in court with evidence and facts?
Because it is her body and she shouldn't be forced to have a child? The rapist walks to jail while she has a child to take care of the rest of her life - or deal with the psychological effects of it by having birth or putting the child up for adoption.

It's pretty simple, not sure why people are so concerned with what females do with their own body. Don't get an abortion if you don't believe in it. Stay the hell out of people's businesses and lives. Small government, less power, right? Oh wait, that's only when it fits your agenda.

So the child shouldn't be protected by those same laws?

You ignore the psychological effect of having an abortion, they're very real and well documented.

You refer to her own body, the problem with that argument is that the child isn't her body. So you in this case you believe the government should abdicate it's constitutional role as the protector of the weak vs the strong?

by **Gomer** 2015-08-23, 15:56

It's pointless to have this discussion when one side wants to refer to a lump of cells as a child.

When taking about this, it's crucial to use accurate terminology. Otherwise a zygote becomes a child and birth control becomes baby murder.

It is not a child until it has been born.

by Guest 2015-08-23, 16:00

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Goose, say these "children" (can you even call them that?) are born.. who is going to support them? feed them? give them opportunities to get an education?

Chances are, the mother or father can't. You going to? The government?

I'm more than willing to do all I can, there are many others that would do the same. I'd much rather spend the $$ on children than about 85% of the other crap the government spends money on.

With 35 million or so abortions in the US since Roe v Wade who knows what we've lost? What advances in science, technology, literature, etc - all gone for in most cases the convenience of the parents. And while we can argue the minuscule role the "exceptions" play all day long the vast majority of these children have been brutally dismembered and vacuumed up for convenience.

by Guest 2015-08-23, 16:01

Gomer wrote:It's pointless to have this discussion when one side wants to refer to a lump of cells as a child.

When taking about this, it's crucial to use accurate terminology. Otherwise a zygote becomes a child and birth control becomes baby murder.

It is not a child until it has been born.

Regardless of your feelings on abortion... - Page 2 CNGDhvRUkAADMnf

by **Gomer** 2015-08-23, 16:05

LooseGoose wrote:
Gomer wrote:It's pointless to have this discussion when one side wants to refer to a lump of cells as a child.

When taking about this, it's crucial to use accurate terminology. Otherwise a zygote becomes a child and birth control becomes baby murder.

It is not a child until it has been born.

Again.

If you have to rely on semantics to shore up your argument, well that sorta tells you how shitty your argument is.

That's your prerogative though.

by **Rocinante** 2015-08-23, 16:09

I'm talking about the travesty of justice that is that judge allowing the activists to release illegally gotten footage. This is something that could ruin this company and will certainly lead to a lawsuit. I hope the judge or the state gets sued too. Like I said regardless of the subject matter, to just disregard the law like this is chaos. We have law for a reason.

by **Rocinante** 2015-08-23, 16:10

Also, it isn't even Monday yet!

by **GRR Spartan** 2015-08-23, 16:17

GOP had majorities in the House and Senate, Bush2 in the White House and a probable 5-4 majority in the Supreme Court.

They did nothing but threaten. When do they talk about repeal? After there was a Democrat in the White House hey started the whole exercise again knowing they couldn't override a veto. The GOP plays the anti-abortion folks like violins.

Personally I'm reasonably sure Goose and Mason Delhi Guy are good folks. We just disagree with this issue. In a perfect world no women would ever see a reason for an abortion and we would have a robust social safety net to help care for children born into less than ideal economic circumstances. But we don't have that.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2015-08-23, 16:30

Rocinante wrote:Also, it isn't even Monday yet!

This. Does nobody care about rules anymore???

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-08-23, 16:31

Rocinante wrote:Also, it isn't even Monday yet!

This is just the pregame.

by **tGreenWay** 2015-08-23, 20:02

Less than four hours till monday! Regardless of your feelings on abortion... - Page 2 3434560931

by **Cym Jim** 2015-08-23, 21:52

If I truly believed they were routinely killing babies at several clinics in my town, I'd be beating their door down and stopping them. On the other hand, if I was just pretending to believe that to score political points, and knew instead that they were just removing small clumps on cells from women's' uteruses, I'd probably just grumble about it on the internet.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2015-08-24, 00:03

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2015-08-24, 00:07

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2015-08-24, 00:10

The beginning of this video is pretty much what I picture Bob's Monday morning is like knowing that this thread is waiting.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2015-08-24, 00:20

Okay. So. Seriously though. Can someone tell me why we can't just give out free birth control (be it pills, condoms, whatever) to anyone and everyone that wants it all of the time? Loosegoose will mention 3000 abortions per day at least 6 more times in this thread. That seems like a reasonable and effective way to try to reduce that number extremely significantly.

If you really are as appalled as you profess to be about abortion (and I believe that you are) then why aren't you willing to start by taking the first step to at least reduce them first? By no means would it eliminate them altogether... But I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that that number would be significantly reduced. You can't act appalled but not be willing to take what seems like such an obvious first step to eliminating it.

by **tGreenWay** 2015-08-24, 00:54

I've kinda lost interest in discussing this now.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2015-08-24, 01:01

tGreenWay wrote:I've kinda lost interest in discussing this now.

We've been discussing this for like 20 years in this country and you lose interest over a weekend?

Such a greenway thing to do.

by **Rocinante** 2015-08-24, 01:07

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:I've kinda lost interest in discussing this now.
We've been discussing this for like 20 years in this country and you lose interest over a weekend?

Such a greenway thing to do.

Plus it's still an hour away from midnight here.

by **tGreenWay** 2015-08-24, 01:11

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:I've kinda lost interest in discussing this now.
We've been discussing this for like 20 years in this country and you lose interest over a weekend?

Such a greenway thing to do.

There was such a big buildup, and I was kind of hoping everyone would be here by now to thrash this out and change each other's minds on the subject. Instead, Roc's in another thread professing his homosexual love for a rock star, and not one person from RTL or Op Rescue or even the Catholic Church has shown up to tell you why free birth control is evil or me why teaching kids abstinence is far superior to actual sex education.
All in all, this Monday morning slugfest has been a real yawner.

by **tGreenWay** 2015-08-24, 01:14

Rocinante wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
We've been discussing this for like 20 years in this country and you lose interest over a weekend?

Such a greenway thing to do.

Plus it's still an hour away from midnight here.

This is a Spartan board, you Grohl lover you. We observe East Lansing time and operate thusly. Therefore, it is now after midnight in EL and that means it's Monday.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2015-08-24, 01:25

tGreenWay wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
We've been discussing this for like 20 years in this country and you lose interest over a weekend?

Such a greenway thing to do.

There was such a big buildup, and I was kind of hoping everyone would be here by now to thrash this out and change each other's minds on the subject. Instead, Roc's in another thread professing his homosexual love for a rock star, and not one person from RTL or Op Rescue or even the Catholic Church has shown up to tell you why free birth control is evil or me why teaching kids abstinence is far superior to actual sex education.
All in all, this Monday morning slugfest has been a real yawner.

I'm 100% sure that's because I just have the definitive answer of "let's just give everyone free birth control" and no one has a reasonable argument against it. Sorry for ruining fun and making everything better.

by **tGreenWay** 2015-08-24, 01:30

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

There was such a big buildup, and I was kind of hoping everyone would be here by now to thrash this out and change each other's minds on the subject. Instead, Roc's in another thread professing his homosexual love for a rock star, and not one person from RTL or Op Rescue or even the Catholic Church has shown up to tell you why free birth control is evil or me why teaching kids abstinence is far superior to actual sex education.
All in all, this Monday morning slugfest has been a real yawner.
I'm 100% sure that's because I just have the definitive answer of "let's just give everyone free birth control" and no one has a reasonable argument against it. Sorry for ruining fun and making everything better.

Yeah, you pretty much spoiled my plans. I was going to stay up all night and skip work all day. I really thought we'd have a 24-hour slugfest. You really screwed things up with your logic. I guess I'll go to bed and get ready for work in a few hours. Damn you, Travis.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-08-24, 11:22

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Okay. So. Seriously though. Can someone tell me why we can't just give out free birth control (be it pills, condoms, whatever) to anyone and everyone that wants it all of the time? Loosegoose will mention 3000 abortions per day at least 6 more times in this thread. That seems like a reasonable and effective way to try to reduce that number extremely significantly.

If you really are as appalled as you profess to be about abortion (and I believe that you are) then why aren't you willing to start by taking the first step to at least reduce them first? By no means would it eliminate them altogether... But I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that that number would be significantly reduced. You can't act appalled but not be willing to take what seems like such an obvious first step to eliminating it.

We should keep teaching abstinence and keep actual sex education out of our schools. That'll work.

by **Gomer** 2015-08-24, 11:25

Looks like we shot our wad early.

We're gonna have to abort this thread in a few weeks.

by **Snake Plissken** 2015-08-24, 11:36

Gomer wrote:Looks like we shot our wad early.

We're gonna have to abort this thread in a few weeks.

I've got a coat hangar

by **Snake Plissken** 2015-08-24, 11:41

LooseGoose wrote:" />

FIFY

by **Snake Plissken** 2015-08-24, 11:42

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Okay. So. Seriously though. Can someone tell me why we can't just give out free birth control

I can't speak for all religions but Catholics don't believe in birth control.

by **Gomer** 2015-08-24, 11:54

Or masturbation for that matter. Diddling altar boys though...

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-08-24, 14:12

This thread would have been more fun with Bob.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2015-08-24, 14:14

Snake Plissken wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Okay. So. Seriously though. Can someone tell me why we can't just give out free birth control
I can't speak for all religions but Catholics don't believe in birth control.

And they are free to not use it... But the rest of us should have the option to pick it up for free anywhere and everywhere.

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