Re: tOfficial MSU Basketball Recruiting Thread: Class of 2018

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2017-12-07, 19:41

Actually I don't think the family moved. From my understanding the kid is 18 and the family got him an apartment in Clarkston.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-07, 19:42

"The MHSAA handbook has seven clauses that define an "athletically motivated" transfer, and Johnson said No. 7 specifically applied to Kithier's case. That clause reads: "The student seeks to participate with teammates or coaches with whom he/she participated in non-school competition during the preceding 12 months.""

Seems clear cut reading that?

by MattyFresh 2017-12-07, 19:44

As Floyd had said MHSAA=NCAA

by **Tim Wakefield** 2017-12-07, 19:48

Herbie Green wrote:"The MHSAA handbook has seven clauses that define an "athletically motivated" transfer, and Johnson said No. 7 specifically applied to Kithier's case. That clause reads: "The student seeks to participate with teammates or coaches with whom he/she participated in non-school competition during the preceding 12 months.""

Seems clear cut reading that?

yeah it does. Bummer

There was a similar situation at East Grand Rapids with the Grady family a while back. I was too young to know specifics but EGR was definitely poaching kids. From 7th grade to 8th grade basketball, they had almost an entire different team. My dad said something about the Gradys being scumbags. Anyone know the story on that?

by MattyFresh 2017-12-07, 19:51

I am not fired up about it, he should of transferred to like that IMG academy and not missed a minute lol

by **tGreenWay** 2017-12-07, 19:51

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:"The MHSAA handbook has seven clauses that define an "athletically motivated" transfer, and Johnson said No. 7 specifically applied to Kithier's case. That clause reads: "The student seeks to participate with teammates or coaches with whom he/she participated in non-school competition during the preceding 12 months.""

Seems clear cut reading that?

yeah it does. Bummer

There was a similar situation at East Grand Rapids with the Grady family a while back. I was too young to know specifics but EGR was definitely poaching kids. From 7th grade to 8th grade basketball, they had almost an entire different team. My dad said something about the Gradys being scumbags. Anyone know the story on that?

Jackass.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-07, 19:56

Come on - they say they explored all these school districts and then in the end it just so happened that the one with the #1 ranked team that has his AAU teammate and future college teammate was the best fit socially and academically?
I suppose you can disagree with the rule and its intentions but it seems like exactly the kind of thing they are trying to stop and had a specific clause to base the ruling. Interesting he originally got 90 days, Clarkston appeals and then they up it to 180 days.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-07, 20:03

And WTF didn't they read these rules during all this "research"?

by MattyFresh 2017-12-07, 20:04

Herbie Green wrote:And WTF didn't they read these rules during all this "research"?

having read that clause they must've thought they could pull a fast one on the gun slinging MHSAA

by **By-Tor** 2017-12-07, 20:52

It all came down to Dakota not signing his transfer. A bunch of petty, drunk old men denying an 18 year old kid the chance to play hoops where he wants. Pretty sad.

by **By-Tor** 2017-12-07, 21:07

Clarkston won by 4 tonight by the way in a game against Flint CarmanAinsworth. D1 athletes littered all over the floor. Clarkston was down 12 in early 4th.

by **steveschneider** 2017-12-07, 21:09

Can’t believe it. Probably the dumbest rule I’ve ever seen.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2017-12-07, 21:22

MattyFresh wrote:As Floyd had said MHSAA=NCAA

This is a bit of a stretch.

by **Turtleneck** 2017-12-07, 21:25

tGreenWay wrote:
Tim Wakefield wrote:

yeah it does. Bummer

There was a similar situation at East Grand Rapids with the Grady family a while back. I was too young to know specifics but EGR was definitely poaching kids. From 7th grade to 8th grade basketball, they had almost an entire different team. My dad said something about the Gradys being scumbags. Anyone know the story on that?

Jackass.

Wake, I am sorry GreenWay called your father a name. He has been lashing out lately.

by **NigelUno** 2017-12-07, 21:27

By-Tor wrote:It all came down to Dakota not signing his transfer. A bunch of petty, drunk old men denying an 18 year old kid the chance to play hoops where he wants. Pretty sad.

Coaches can change schools. Or AD's. Or teachers.

But, kids?

Hell no. tOfficial MSU Basketball Recruiting Thread: Class of 2018 - Page 10 502811600

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2017-12-07, 21:57

Wonder what duff has to say about this rule.

by **DWags** 2017-12-07, 21:58

Tim Wakefield wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:"The MHSAA handbook has seven clauses that define an "athletically motivated" transfer, and Johnson said No. 7 specifically applied to Kithier's case. That clause reads: "The student seeks to participate with teammates or coaches with whom he/she participated in non-school competition during the preceding 12 months.""

Seems clear cut reading that?

yeah it does. Bummer

There was a similar situation at East Grand Rapids with the Grady family a while back. I was too young to know specifics but EGR was definitely poaching kids. From 7th grade to 8th grade basketball, they had almost an entire different team. My dad said something about the Gradys being scumbags. Anyone know the story on that?

Freshman football coach at EGR and huge booster (a field is named after him) has “rental houses” in the district. Mehney is the name I think. Anyway it was found that a lot of pretty good football players from the GR area tended to have addresses at this guys rental houses.

David Evans Jr had about 1500 yards and 15 touchdowns in 2013. Him and his dad were paying 200 a month for the house. It was way more involved but former coaches and players who were real estate agents were helping too. EGR is pretty slick.

by **NigelUno** 2017-12-07, 22:03

Maybe he'll go to La Lu.

by **steveschneider** 2017-12-07, 22:10

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Wonder what duff has to say about this rule.

He read me the riot act last time about rules. I learned he's a big fan of people following the rules even though they are terrible rules.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2017-12-07, 22:21

From what I'm reading elsewhere the rule cited is rarely enforced. Example given was that Tillman and one of his HS teammates were also AAU teammates before they transferred in to the HS.

by **By-Tor** 2017-12-07, 22:31

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:From what I'm reading elsewhere the rule cited is rarely enforced. Example given was that Tillman and one of his HS teammates were also AAU teammates before they transferred in to the HS.

MHSSA gonna have a lawsuit on their hands.

by **Turtleneck** 2017-12-07, 22:34

Did moving the girl's basketball season to the fall destroy the world like the MHSAA said it would?

by aualum06 2017-12-07, 23:26

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:From what I'm reading elsewhere the rule cited is rarely enforced. Example given was that Tillman and one of his HS teammates were also AAU teammates before they transferred in to the HS.

Depends on what is reported by what schools. No good way to police this stuff. Recruiting and school of choice are both slick slopes

by **DWags** 2017-12-07, 23:53

Turtleneck wrote:Did moving the girl's basketball season to the fall destroy the world like the MHSAA said it would?

I know you meant “to the winter” and while it had no major effect, it was a bitch for AD’s getting officials. I remember when the mesas just kept spending money on the law suit and every AD I knew would laugh that it was a slam dunk. No way was the mhsaa winning.

by **Turtleneck** 2017-12-08, 00:14

Oh, yeah, from the fall to winter. I have no idea how the world survived.

by **kingstonlake** 2017-12-08, 07:29

Herbie Green wrote:Come on - they say they explored all these school districts and then in the end it just so happened that the one with the #1 ranked team that has his AAU teammate and future college teammate was the best fit socially and academically?
I suppose you can disagree with the rule and its intentions but it seems like exactly the kind of thing they are trying to stop and had a specific clause to base the ruling. Interesting he originally got 90 days, Clarkston appeals and then they up it to 180 days.

Actually, yes. Seems like a great fit. Transferring to a school where know a kid you'll be spending the next five years with in a social, athletic, and academic surrounding. Honestly I can't think of an easier transition.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-08, 07:42

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:From what I'm reading elsewhere the rule cited is rarely enforced. Example given was that Tillman and one of his HS teammates were also AAU teammates before they transferred in to the HS.

He had to sit out a semester and I don't think he objected. Perhaps if you do then the MHSAA digs deeper.

by **steveschneider** 2017-12-08, 07:45

Herbie Green wrote:"The MHSAA handbook has seven clauses that define an "athletically motivated" transfer, and Johnson said No. 7 specifically applied to Kithier's case. That clause reads: "The student seeks to participate with teammates or coaches with whom he/she participated in non-school competition during the preceding 12 months.""

Seems clear cut reading that?

Who filed the claim? Was it his former coach or school? Pretty shameful if that’s the case.

by **duffy munn** 2017-12-08, 07:50

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Wonder what duff has to say about this rule.

The rule is dumb. Not doing enough research and violating it is dumber.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-08, 08:10

kingstonlake wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:Come on - they say they explored all these school districts and then in the end it just so happened that the one with the #1 ranked team that has his AAU teammate and future college teammate was the best fit socially and academically?
I suppose you can disagree with the rule and its intentions but it seems like exactly the kind of thing they are trying to stop and had a specific clause to base the ruling. Interesting he originally got 90 days, Clarkston appeals and then they up it to 180 days.

Actually, yes. Seems like a great fit. Transferring to a school where know a kid you'll be spending the next five years with in a social, athletic, and academic surrounding. Honestly I can't think of an easier transition.

I see both sides of this. It is a dick move to his former teammates but I can't pretend to know his personal circumstances with that coach or other issues with the school. And if he moves he moves and there shouldn't be anything they can do about it - except that there is a specific rule that makes him inelgible and he was blatantly obvious in violation.
I guess you have to take your green goggles off to see it from the other side.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2017-12-08, 08:16

Herbie Green wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Actually, yes. Seems like a great fit. Transferring to a school where know a kid you'll be spending the next five years with in a social, athletic, and academic surrounding. Honestly I can't think of an easier transition.

I see both sides of this. It is a dick move to his former teammates but I can't pretend to know his personal circumstances with that coach or other issues with the school. And if he moves he moves and there shouldn't be anything they can do about it - except that there is a specific rule that makes him inelgible and he was blatantly obvious in violation.
I guess you have to take your green goggles off to see it from the other side.

I get the specific rule, but it's still inappropriate for public high schools. These aren't scholarship athletes who signed a LOI and accepted tuition for play.

by **kingstonlake** 2017-12-08, 08:30

Herbie Green wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Actually, yes. Seems like a great fit. Transferring to a school where know a kid you'll be spending the next five years with in a social, athletic, and academic surrounding. Honestly I can't think of an easier transition.

I see both sides of this. It is a dick move to his former teammates but I can't pretend to know his personal circumstances with that coach or other issues with the school. And if he moves he moves and there shouldn't be anything they can do about it - except that there is a specific rule that makes him inelgible and he was blatantly obvious in violation.
I guess you have to take your green goggles off to see it from the other side.

I'm addressing the angle of your speculation. Not anything to do with glasses.

by **steveschneider** 2017-12-08, 08:33

Herbie Green wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Actually, yes. Seems like a great fit. Transferring to a school where know a kid you'll be spending the next five years with in a social, athletic, and academic surrounding. Honestly I can't think of an easier transition.

I see both sides of this. It is a dick move to his former teammates but I can't pretend to know his personal circumstances with that coach or other issues with the school. And if he moves he moves and there shouldn't be anything they can do about it - except that there is a specific rule that makes him inelgible and he was blatantly obvious in violation.
I guess you have to take your green goggles off to see it from the other side.

I think it’s a good life lesson for his former teammates. People leave, transfer and move on to better situations all of the time in life. Instead of their coach being petty and spiteful he should teach those kids to play the game with a chip on their shoulder.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-08, 08:38

kingstonlake wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

I see both sides of this. It is a dick move to his former teammates but I can't pretend to know his personal circumstances with that coach or other issues with the school. And if he moves he moves and there shouldn't be anything they can do about it - except that there is a specific rule that makes him inelgible and he was blatantly obvious in violation.
I guess you have to take your green goggles off to see it from the other side.

I'm addressing the angle of your speculation. Not anything to do with glasses.

yeah but the entire angle is based on playing with a future MSU teammate

by **NigelUno** 2017-12-08, 08:48

Herbie Green wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I'm addressing the angle of your speculation. Not anything to do with glasses.

yeah but the entire angle is based on playing with a future MSU teammate

So, what?

If they gave him a more severe punishment than others who transferred for "athletically motivated" reasons, they are being coerced into doing so by petty, vindictive adults. I would guess there's a possibility they will get sued.

Coaches can leave at any time for better opportunities. Same with AD's, administrators, teachers, etc.

Why shouldn't a kid be able to transfer?

by **kingstonlake** 2017-12-08, 08:54

Herbie Green wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I'm addressing the angle of your speculation. Not anything to do with glasses.

yeah but the entire angle is based on playing with a future MSU teammate

That seems to matter to you.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-08, 08:56

kingstonlake wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

yeah but the entire angle is based on playing with a future MSU teammate

That seems to matter to you.

huh?

by **kingstonlake** 2017-12-08, 08:59

Well, Dakota certainly looks like the bitch in this saga............

Similarly, the Dakota basketball program has benefited from transfers, including a pair of 2017 graduates in Jermaine Jackson Jr. (Mt. Clemens) and Jack Ballantyne (Warren De La Salle). Jackson transferred to Dakota as a junior and Ballantyne did so as a senior. Both now play for the University of Detroit Mercy.

by **kingstonlake** 2017-12-08, 09:17

Apparently the chatter in the area points to the basketball and asst football coaches son is the point guard over the objections of more than a few.... Also they granted a kid named Morris a transfer to a rival who was a good QB on the football team......which opened the door for a new QB....you guessed it the same coaches kid. The same kid who's the point guard on the basketball team, the coaches son.

Also of note Tuocco, the Dakota basketball coach was arrested for DUI and script meds not prescribed to himself.

by Herbie Green 2017-12-08, 09:26

NigelUno wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

yeah but the entire angle is based on playing with a future MSU teammate

So, what?

If they gave him a more severe punishment than others who transferred for "athletically motivated" reasons, they are being coerced into doing so by petty, vindictive adults. I would guess there's a possibility they will get sued.

Coaches can leave at any time for better opportunities. Same with AD's, administrators, teachers, etc.

Why shouldn't a kid be able to transfer?

Good point, maybe they should not only ignore all transfer rules but take it a step further and start paying them salaries so they are treated the same as the paid professionals.

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