National Bureau of Economic Research: Police Shootings Show No Racial Bias, Research Organization Study Finds

I couldn't tell whether to put this in the media bias thread or one of the "omg everyone is killing blacks" threads. So I did the selfish thing and made my own.

Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of Force but Not in Shootings

NY Times wrote:A new study confirms that black men and women are treated differently in the hands of law enforcement. They are more likely to be touched, handcuffed, pushed to the ground or pepper-sprayed by a police officer, even after accounting for how, where and when they encounter the police.

But when it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias.

“It is the most surprising result of my career,” said Roland G. Fryer Jr., the author of the study and a professor of economics at Harvard. The study examined more than 1,000 shootings in 10 major police departments, in Texas, Florida and California.

The result contradicts the image of police shootings that many Americans hold after the killings (some captured on video) of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo.; Tamir Rice in Cleveland; Walter Scott in South Carolina; Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, La.; and Philando Castile in Minnesota.

Does this change, in any way, the narrative of the organizations that rely on these sorts of falsities to be true in order to legitimately exist and monetize on them?

What I mean is... are police still the pro-white privilege neo-nazi organizations that MSNBC/CNN/NPR paint them as (as indicated in their softball interviews with BLM and related groups)? Or is there any change of view... do these organizations take the kid gloves off and start asking the obvious questions? Or is it the most likely scenario, I fear.... ignore it long enough for some other incident that can be painted in a certain way to get back to business? This is a big cash cow for corporate media. Studies coming out proving the narrative they've been selling for years isn't true can't code well for their talking pieces... and yes, I understand the study also suggests black people are handled "more roughly". But I find it interesting that cops would go out of their way to be rough... but won't go out of their way to be lethal. Perhaps other reasons... using correlation... could explain? I don't know...

Interesting....

In the media bias thread you reference, you had no use for statistical analyses or peer reviewed studies of media bias. So why should this analysis be treated as gospel, X? Why should this one study, which the author clearly states should not be taken as definitive evidence, change an entire discourse rather then simply be a part of an ongoing discourse?

It is interesting that the study found racial bias in non-lethal use of force but not lethal use of force. Is this a flaw in the methodology? If racial bias motivates non-lethal use force, which suggests a willingness to create or unnecessarily escalate confrontation based on race, what explains this distinction? How to police suddenly disengage that racial bias that led to  creating or unnecessarily escalating confrontation in the first place?

Overall, do you not think there is an issue with the sample size? It is based on 10 municipalities in three states. Furthermore, to get at a more complete conclusion, the author correctly compares moments when officers did shoot versus moments when they did not shoot. However, when he does this, his study is based on one municipality. Part of the problem is that the evidence used in this study is limited to what police departments voluntarily surrendered to the researchers, which naturally limits the scope of the study. Do you think that is a good enough sample size to make a generalization about policing nation-wide? Even the author says, because of the small sample, it should not taken as definitive proof.

There are other studies that have reached the opposite conclusion. For example, the study linked below found that unarmed Blacks were 3.5 times more likely to be shot than unarmed whites.

A geographically-resolved, multi-level Bayesian model is used to analyze the data presented in the U.S. Police-Shooting Database (USPSD) in order to investigate the extent of racial bias in the shooting of American civilians by police officers in recent years. In contrast to previous work that relied on the FBI’s Supplemental Homicide Reports that were constructed from self-reported cases of police-involved homicide, this data set is less likely to be biased by police reporting practices. County-specific relative risk outcomes of being shot by police are estimated as a function of the interaction of: 1) whether suspects/civilians were armed or unarmed, and 2) the race/ethnicity of the suspects/civilians. The results provide evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being {black, unarmed, and shot by police} is about 3.49 times the probability of being {white, unarmed, and shot by police} on average. Furthermore, the results of multi-level modeling show that there exists significant heterogeneity across counties in the extent of racial bias in police shootings, with some counties showing relative risk ratios of 20 to 1 or more. Finally, analysis of police shooting data as a function of county-level predictors suggests that racial bias in police shootings is most likely to emerge in police departments in larger metropolitan counties with low median incomes and a sizable portion of black residents, especially when there is high financial inequality in that county. There is no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141854

Anyway, the points is that these study should be part of the discourse rather than assumed to be gospel to the point that we change the discourse to fit a single finding.

This isn't treated as gospel. It is created as one more piece of evidence along with FBI, state, local, and national crime survey data to indicate a theme.

You're assuming there is racial motivation for the use of non-lethal force. What would be the motivation for such? What does the officer gain by using who he uses force against by race? Considering the socio-political climate, of course, too? Perhaps one explanation is that due to the far more frequent encounter between police and the black community due to the much higher rate of crime that is reported... struggles are going to ensue that do not necessarily end in a fatality.

I'm trying to figure out what you believe the motivation for someone to get out of bed and say... you know what, at the risk of my life, my job, my family, my reputation, etc.... I'm going to fuck with some niggers today and hopefully kill one. That's just on my agenda. If that's what you believe is occurring... what is the motivation for that? What does the officer gain out of looking for that scenario?

I do think there's an issue with the same size. Same thing as when they used only Chicago years ago to make America look as bad as Baghdad. It's bad in certain neighborhoods. But for the vast majority of Americans.... it's as safe or safer than the (majority white) Euro countries they wish to be like and thinking... well, if we just hand over our personal rights to a government everything will be great.

But okay. I'll play your game for a bit. Cops are blood thirsty racists that are out to kill black people because they hate them for the color of their skin as their culture. What do these cops gain every day by going out and indiscriminately killing black people? Let's answer that first.

xsanguine wrote:This isn't treated as gospel. It is created as one more piece of evidence along with FBI, state, local, and national crime survey data to indicate a theme.

You're assuming there is racial motivation for the use of non-lethal force. What would be the motivation for such? What does the officer gain by using who he uses force against by race? Considering the socio-political climate, of course, too? Perhaps one explanation is that due to the far more frequent encounter between police and the black community due to the much higher rate of crime that is reported... struggles are going to ensue that do not necessarily end in a fatality.

I'm trying to figure out what you believe the motivation for someone to get out of bed and say... you know what, at the risk of my life, my job, my family, my reputation, etc.... I'm going to fuck with some niggers today and hopefully kill one. That's just on my agenda. If that's what you believe is occurring... what is the motivation for that? What does the officer gain out of looking for that scenario?

I do think there's an issue with the same size. Same thing as when they used only Chicago years ago to make America look as bad as Baghdad. It's bad in certain neighborhoods. But for the vast majority of Americans.... it's as safe or safer than the (majority white) Euro countries they wish to be like and thinking... well, if we just hand over our personal rights to a government everything will be great.

But okay. I'll play your game for a bit. Cops are blood thirsty racists that are out to kill black people because they hate them for the color of their skin as their culture. What do these cops gain every day by going out and indiscriminately killing black people? Let's answer that first.

xsanguine wrote:This isn't treated as gospel. It is created as one more piece of evidence along with FBI, state, local, and national crime survey data to indicate a theme.

You're assuming there is racial motivation for the use of non-lethal force. What would be the motivation for such? What does the officer gain by using who he uses force against by race? Considering the socio-political climate, of course, too? Perhaps one explanation is that due to the far more frequent encounter between police and the black community due to the much higher rate of crime that is reported... struggles are going to ensue that do not necessarily end in a fatality.

I'm trying to figure out what you believe the motivation for someone to get out of bed and say... you know what, at the risk of my life, my job, my family, my reputation, etc.... I'm going to fuck with some niggers today and hopefully kill one. That's just on my agenda. If that's what you believe is occurring... what is the motivation for that? What does the officer gain out of looking for that scenario?

I do think there's an issue with the same size. Same thing as when they used only Chicago years ago to make America look as bad as Baghdad. It's bad in certain neighborhoods. But for the vast majority of Americans.... it's as safe or safer than the (majority white) Euro countries they wish to be like and thinking... well, if we just hand over our personal rights to a government everything will be great.

But okay. I'll play your game for a bit. Cops are blood thirsty racists that are out to kill black people because they hate them for the color of their skin as their culture. What do these cops gain every day by going out and indiscriminately killing black people? Let's answer that first.

X, you wrote the following:

xsanguine wrote:Does this change, in any way, the narrative of the organizations that rely on these sorts of falsities to be true in order to legitimately exist and monetize on them?

You asked for a single study to change an entire discourse. That was my point. You want it to be treated as gospel, which is evidenced by you asking for a single study to change an entire discourse. All I can do is respond to your words.

Why do you think I am assuming racial bias in the use of non-lethal force? I am not assuming racial bias in the non-lethal use of force. My question was based on the fact that the study you linked to found racial bias in the use non-lethal force. Your question is better directed at the researchers. Did you even bother to read what you posted?

I enjoy the way you tap dance around the sample size issue, and then misrepresent comparative crime data. Did you know that violent crime is defined differently in the US than the UK? The UK has a much more expansive definition of violent crime, and therefore a higher violent crime rate.

You last paragraph is a fucking joke, X. There is not much else to say. However, I do not think you fully understand how racism or other forms of discriminatory or prejudicial behavior works. Much of the time it probably happens in the form of implicit bias. Many people do not get up in the morning and say, "I am going to go screw with some black kids today." But it happens out of a manifestation of their implicit bias.

I want to get to the bottom of this.

I've been put in the hospital because of my race, I'll called honkey, cracker, etc. etc. in front of white teachers, black teachers, no one does shit. In fact, the black teachers would pick the students they most identified with. No problem, though, just an observation. The day before her and two of her boyfriends took a desk and threw it at the back of my head....."Taqeesha.... sit your ass down and do your work and leave that boy alone." That's about the support I got. But you're right. I don't understand discrimination or prejudice.

I just want to know what you think motivates black police to get up in the morning and then make a stop ready to risk their families, their reputation, their jobs, prison, etc.... just to "get one over on those fucking blacks!"

What motivation are the police working off of that causes them to leave blacks alone?

What motivation would a black cop have to chuckle observe when he watches a black kid sucker punch a white kid and when he's unconscious steal the money out of her pocket?

What lack of motivation would a cop have when you point to an individual literally riding away with a bike you own that they pried from a steel gate




Then.... what motivation do blacks have for existing as such an incredibly high crimes against other blacks?

If it's so ridiculous a question, seems easy.

I understand racism perfectly well. It's impossible to be racially targeted by a minority because I am white and therefore do not qualify for racial attacks.

How does these states, arrests, national crime survey, and anecdotal evidence all seem to add up?

If you're seeing white people committing so much more crime that blacks that is skewing the data. How often are you calling the cops to arrest these white people committing crimes so that the numbers jives.

From what I was told by Roc.... whites and blacks commit the same amount of crimes relative to their ratio.... which means there's way too many crimes to start counting that go unreported in the white community.

I'm asking what their motivation is to risk all of these things waking up in the morning just to kill black kids. What are they getting out of it?

People don't just do things just because. I have yet to see a motivation presented by BLM or anything else.... all I hear is...."White people hate blacks, that's why they kill us."
Assuming that is true. Why do white people hate blacks?

And also, just to be clear.... whites make up 66% of the population, blacks makes up 12% (or 13% depending on who you ask). But they commit the same amount of crime accounting for their population, right?

I offered some solid responses. You ignored most of them and now you're rambling about Roc, this, that, and whatever else. I guess you win.

Turtleneck wrote:I offered some solid responses. You ignored most of them and now you're rambling about Roc, this, that, and whatever else. I guess you win.

I might have missed the response and I'm sorry. If I did miss it would you mind C&P'ing it?

I'm asking what their motivation is to risk all of these things waking up in the morning just to kill black kids. What are they getting out of it?

People don't just do things just because. I have yet to see a motivation presented by BLM or anything else.... all I hear is...."White people hate blacks, that's why they kill us."
Assuming that is true. Why do white people hate blacks?

xsanguine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:I offered some solid responses. You ignored most of them and now you're rambling about Roc, this, that, and whatever else. I guess you win.

I might have missed the response and I'm sorry. If I did miss it would you mind C&P'ing it?

I'm asking what their motivation is to risk all of these things waking up in the morning just to kill black kids. What are they getting out of it?

People don't just do things just because. I have yet to see a motivation presented by BLM or anything else.... all I hear is...."White people hate blacks, that's why they kill us."
Assuming that is true. Why do white people hate blacks?

You really like to over simply things.

I wrote about implicit bias in one of my earlier posts. I am not going to do your learning for you, but this was in response to you carrying on about people being actively motivated to engage in racists behavior. In regards to policing, Implicit bias combined with over-policing and the statistics you like to cite about crime rates in the black community, can lead to unconscious racism that manifests into visibly negative outcomes.

I am not looking to get into a pointless back-and-forth with you, X. I already told you that you won. I'm out.

So I realized I've been generalizing. I have a very good black anarchist friend (UM alumni... but he's cool) and if I would have said this in front of him he would have checked him. He wouldn't have gone all full Roc or Dwags and use the word racism like it's his new favorite word (which is fine, that's the trend these days.

I did a google search some time ago and was searching black lives matter and for a few pages it was all anti-Black Lives Matter stuff... and it wasn't whities. It was black dudes. And it wasn't black dudes... it was brothas. They have some support but most these black people seem to think they're morons.

So when I'm going on and on... I don't mean your normal guy just doing his thing. I'm taking about Michael Brown. I'm talking about people that stifle free speech events. Clearly people don't care about them as much they're made to seem. The people I'm referring to is those BLM supporters and people that a similar MO as Michael Brown.

Turtleneck wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

I might have missed the response and I'm sorry. If I did miss it would you mind C&P'ing it?

I'm asking what their motivation is to risk all of these things waking up in the morning just to kill black kids. What are they getting out of it?

People don't just do things just because. I have yet to see a motivation presented by BLM or anything else.... all I hear is...."White people hate blacks, that's why they kill us."
Assuming that is true. Why do white people hate blacks?

You really like to over simply things.

I wrote about implicit bias in one of my earlier posts. I am not going to do your learning for you, but this was in response to you carrying on about people being actively motivated to engage in racists behavior. In regards to policing, Implicit bias combined with over-policing and the statistics you like to cite about crime rates in the black community, can lead to unconscious racism that manifests into visibly negative outcomes.

I am not looking to get into a pointless back-and-forth with you, X. I already told you that you won. I'm out.

But these crime stats are just Janice in the office downtown writing what she thinks happened. Everything is compiled.... it's matched with the National Crime Survey. The levels correlate.

I can't see how acknowledging 'hate fact's leads to unconscious racism. Dude, either the numbers are right or wrong. If the crime stats are wrong. Then show me the data. If all of these state/local/federal are right.... maybe there's not such a big problem with the cops being put in violent situations with a group of people showing to be incredibly more violent then all other people.... I'm not saying that;s....

I don't even care anymore. I'm going to go smoke weed and watch podcasts that make number.

I'm willing to allow you to bestow upon me whatever responsibility it is of mine for these killings. I'm part of the evil white privilege and therefore as part of some unsaid language we wink and nod when we need to kill the next black kid. I know what's not what you believe... but fill in the blanks, call me whatever you want to call me at this point, it hasn't stopped you in the past...

But what is the motivation for cops to create these huge media circuses, effectivelly sacrificing their social reputation, possibly being fired and possibly unhirable, death threats, everyone hating you. What is the motivation or what drives these cops to make these decisions?

The closets I've got is bias. Well, why would there be a bias? Why on earth would there be a bias regarding which neighborhoods experience more crime than otherwise? Would cops patrol these neighborhoods more or less?

So bias because of the crimes reported in black neighborhoods (not magically appearing and being artificially created by racist white police precincts) but calls actually made by blacks against blacks.

So I'm all for getting rid of over policing. Maybe it works.

These neighborhoods, virtually always black neighborhoods, experience the highest of crime rates based on the crimes reported BY black residence AGAINST black residence. Not whites outside of the neighborhood making reports on behalf of their precinct. That would then fall under the white precinct.

So we mentioned over policing and militarization. I agree.

I don't think taking police out of the most dangerous neighborhoods (which against are black neighborhoods, where black residents are reporting black assailants) will have a good effect. Maybe take aware their military equipment. It may have a psychological effect a generation or two down the road when no one has seen a tank in 15 minutes.

What is going to stop the bulk of the crime that is supposedly an epidemic in this country, which is mainly caused by one particular group in isolated parts of cities across the country?

What do we do? Do we pull cops out? I doubt that'll work... what else do we do? You think I'm trolling... but I'm asking you... knowing these facts as they are.... what is your suggestion?

It's hard because have to figure out who's statement's we're talking seriously.

Are we talking BLM or Barack Obama or the Democrats?

If it's BLM there's probably quite the party going on... doubt I'm allowed in. Dunno about the others.

When I do a google search there's a lot of backlash from black people (not white blacks... but real brotas) against BLM. Thank god. I've followed so many more challenge since that search. I like hearing about contemporary aims at freedom from a black perspective.

I like that they give me something rather than "Well, it's happening, you can either believe it or remain ignorant and this conversation is over. You're not a True(TM) believer.
Seems more like a religion than a political discussion.

When is the last time you witnesse'd racism? Not just prejudice... but racism racism?