Re: The armed white guys got off, the peaceful red guys are getting arrested in droves.

by **Rocinante** 10/30/2016, 6:03 pm

xsanguine wrote:
Rocinante wrote:

You're the only one generalizing white people.

I am? I was taking your lead

Really? Please quote my generalization about white people.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 6:06 pm

Rocinante wrote:
And that is the most typical white response ever.

by **Rocinante** 10/30/2016, 6:10 pm

Don't break the law and you won't get (insert the police injustice here) is a repose that has been used to death. Pretty much exclusively by whites. It's not a generalization when it's the truth.

White people are pussies is a generalization.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 6:13 pm

It's not a generalization when it's the truth.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 6:22 pm

"Most typical black response ever" would be racist (with the new definition of racism; nu-racism).

Replace black with white and it's alllllllll good.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 6:27 pm

Rocinante wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Are you disputing the truth of it?
Listen, simpleton. If there were white people exercising civil disobedience in the face of what they felt was an unjust situation.... You're damn right I think they'd be treated differently.

You want to narrowly define it as "derp don't break the law and you won't get in trouble" that's just you putting your white blinders on and being willfully ignorant. So basically fuck you if you're going to do that.

Still not disputing the truth of the statement.

And this is RICH in light of the above post.

Rocinante wrote:You're the only one generalizing white people.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 6:28 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
DWags wrote:

Isn't this also for a for profit company and not a public entity

Eminent domain is not limited to public projects. Eminent domain can be exercised when the project is private development assumed to serve a public purpose. This comes from Kelo v. City of New London (2005) when the Supreme Court upheld eminent domain being used to seize property for a private condominium and hotel project in New London, CT.

Kelo was a travesty of justice. And was never built, just destroyed the neighborhood.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 6:31 pm

It's okay to generalize whites cause it earns you points with your "team", which is what matters when you have a strong desire to be part of a group. Must be that cuckold gene.... hence, white people are pussies.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 6:32 pm

DWags wrote:There have been 3,300 incidents of leaks in pipelines since 2010. The pipeline is going under the main source of drinking water for ten thousand people. It also is going to go either near by or on a burial ground.

I try to be objective in these things. I get eminent domain shit, and it is important. But I wonder how I'd react and what I'd do if it went under my drinking water source and was pumping that shit through my dads cemetery or near it. Regardless of my skin color I might revert to civil disobedience too.

Do you have a link for the leak stat? I'd like to read it. I'm not disputing it, just curious as to what they're counting.

Part of me resents how crass some of these "protesters" are. Have you followed the saga around the pipeline under the Straights?
The company that owns it wanted to upgrade some of the supports to help prevent possible leaks, the "activists" were opposing this because they want it removed. So I guess their motivation was that a leak into the Great Lakes fucking up our water would be good for their cause of removing the pipeline. What kind of fucked up logic is that?

by **Turtleneck** 10/30/2016, 6:32 pm

LooseGoose wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

Eminent domain is not limited to public projects. Eminent domain can be exercised when the project is private development assumed to serve a public purpose. This comes from Kelo v. City of New London (2005) when the Supreme Court upheld eminent domain being used to seize property for a private condominium and hotel project in New London, CT.

Kelo was a travesty of justice. And was never built, just destroyed the neighborhood.

I did not know it wasn't built! Wow. That really is terrible. Poor Ms. Kelo lost her house for nothing.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 6:51 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Kelo was a travesty of justice. And was never built, just destroyed the neighborhood.

I did not know it was built! Wow. That really is terrible. Poor Ms. Kelo lost her house for nothing.

The whole neighborhood lost their homes - they destroyed it. The last I read something may have finally been being built there but the original project was never built.

I despise Eminent domain. I've seen it used as a weapon in small towns. It should be the very last resort for public projects and NEVER for private projects.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 6:53 pm

PICKET: '05 Kelo decision a failure; CT site remains a dump

Five Years After Kelo The Sweeping Backlash Against One of the Supreme Court’s Most-Despised Decisions

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 6:54 pm

Amen, LG

by Guest 10/30/2016, 7:30 pm

Well a Google search tells me the "3300 leaks" statistic comes from here:

Map Displays Five Years of Oil Pipeline Spills

You can't see the underlying data. My guess is that the huge majority of those leaks are drips like your garage floor. So yes, a leak but far from a disaster. If someone has access to their data I'd love to see it.

Here are a couple of other views:

1st up from ThinkProgress which would generally make Bob look like a conservative:

Data: Oil Trains Spill More Often, But Pipelines Spill Bigger

They are for trains then no oil. Might make things safer but that's not happening for a long time.

And then ProPublica:

Pipelines Explained: How Safe are America’s 2.5 Million Miles of Pipelines

The administration first delayed the permit for the pipeline on environmental grounds, but has left the door open to future proposals for Keystone’s northern route. Construction on the southern route is already underway, sparking fierce opposition from some landowners and environmentalists.

The problem, protesters say, is that any route will pose hazards to the public. While pipeline operator TransCanada has declared that Keystone will be the safest pipeline ever built in North America, critics are skeptical.

“It's inevitable that as pipelines age, as they are exposed to the elements, eventually they are going to spill,” said Tony Iallonardo of the National Wildlife Federation. “They’re ticking time bombs."

Critics of the Keystone proposal point to the hundreds of pipeline accidents that occur every year. They charge that system wide, antiquated pipes, minimal oversight and inadequate precautions put the public and the environment at increasing risk. Pipeline operators point to billions of dollars spent on new technologies and a gradual improvement over the last two decades as proof of their commitment to safety.

Pipelines are generally regarded as a safe way to transport fuel, a far better alternative to tanker trucks or freight trains. The risks inherent in transporting fuel through pipelines are analogous to the risks inherent in traveling by airplane. Airplanes are safer than cars, which kill about 70 times as many people a year (highway accidents killed about 33,000 people in 2010, while aviation accidents killed 472). But when an airplane crashes, it is much more deadly than any single car accident, demands much more attention, and initiates large investigations to determine precisely what went wrong.

The same holds true for pipelines. Based on fatality statistics from 2005 through 2009, oil pipelines are roughly 70 times as safe as trucks, which killed four times as many people during those years, despite transporting only a tiny fraction of fuel shipments. But when a pipeline does fail, the consequences can be catastrophic (though typically less so than airplane accidents), with the very deadliest accidents garnering media attention and sometimes leading to a federal investigation.

Other measures focus on preventing leaks and ruptures in the first place. The industry already uses robotic devices called "smart pigs" to crawl through a pipeline, clearing debris and taking measurements to detect any problems. But not all pipelines can accommodate smart pigs, and operators don’t routinely run the devices through every line.

Just last month, a smart pig detected a “small anomaly” in the existing Keystone pipeline, prompting TransCanada to shut down the entire line. Environmentalists pointed out that this is not the first time TransCananda has called for a shut down, and won’t be the last.

And again in that last paragraph "environmentalists" seem upset that pipeline operators are using new technology to monitor and fix pipelines. I guess a problem fixed before it becomes a leak ruins their protest. Hypocrites.

by **DWags** 10/30/2016, 7:36 pm

LooseGoose wrote:Well a Google search tells me the "3300 leaks" statistic comes from here:

Map Displays Five Years of Oil Pipeline Spills

You can't see the underlying data. My guess is that the huge majority of those leaks are drips like your garage floor. So yes, a leak but far from a disaster. If someone has access to their data I'd love to see it.

Here are a couple of other views:

1st up from ThinkProgress which would generally make Bob look like a conservative:

Data: Oil Trains Spill More Often, But Pipelines Spill Bigger

They are for trains then no oil. Might make things safer but that's not happening for a long time.

And then ProPublica:

Pipelines Explained: How Safe are America’s 2.5 Million Miles of Pipelines

The administration first delayed the permit for the pipeline on environmental grounds, but has left the door open to future proposals for Keystone’s northern route. Construction on the southern route is already underway, sparking fierce opposition from some landowners and environmentalists.

The problem, protesters say, is that any route will pose hazards to the public. While pipeline operator TransCanada has declared that Keystone will be the safest pipeline ever built in North America, critics are skeptical.

“It's inevitable that as pipelines age, as they are exposed to the elements, eventually they are going to spill,” said Tony Iallonardo of the National Wildlife Federation. “They’re ticking time bombs."

Critics of the Keystone proposal point to the hundreds of pipeline accidents that occur every year. They charge that system wide, antiquated pipes, minimal oversight and inadequate precautions put the public and the environment at increasing risk. Pipeline operators point to billions of dollars spent on new technologies and a gradual improvement over the last two decades as proof of their commitment to safety.

Pipelines are generally regarded as a safe way to transport fuel, a far better alternative to tanker trucks or freight trains. The risks inherent in transporting fuel through pipelines are analogous to the risks inherent in traveling by airplane. Airplanes are safer than cars, which kill about 70 times as many people a year (highway accidents killed about 33,000 people in 2010, while aviation accidents killed 472). But when an airplane crashes, it is much more deadly than any single car accident, demands much more attention, and initiates large investigations to determine precisely what went wrong.

The same holds true for pipelines. Based on fatality statistics from 2005 through 2009, oil pipelines are roughly 70 times as safe as trucks, which killed four times as many people during those years, despite transporting only a tiny fraction of fuel shipments. But when a pipeline does fail, the consequences can be catastrophic (though typically less so than airplane accidents), with the very deadliest accidents garnering media attention and sometimes leading to a federal investigation.

Other measures focus on preventing leaks and ruptures in the first place. The industry already uses robotic devices called "smart pigs" to crawl through a pipeline, clearing debris and taking measurements to detect any problems. But not all pipelines can accommodate smart pigs, and operators don’t routinely run the devices through every line.

Just last month, a smart pig detected a “small anomaly” in the existing Keystone pipeline, prompting TransCanada to shut down the entire line. Environmentalists pointed out that this is not the first time TransCananda has called for a shut down, and won’t be the last.

And again in that last paragraph "environmentalists" seem upset that pipeline operators are using new technology to monitor and fix pipelines. I guess a problem fixed before it becomes a leak ruins their protest. Hypocrites.

Can you honestly say you'd be happy with that under your water source? Dad's gravesite? You can guarantee me safety, that wouldn't please me at all. It's not there for a year, but decades. How much more would it cost to divert it?

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 7:37 pm

Weird, a keystone oil and gas truck just pulled into my hotel parking lot. Not sure what this means.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 7:40 pm

DWags wrote:Can you honestly say you'd be happy with that under your water source? Dad's gravesite? You can guarantee me safety, that wouldn't please me at all. It's not there for a year, but decades. How much more would it cost to divert it?

Wags? There already are pipelines under us all over the US. Building new, safer pipelines to replace old ones makes sense.

Divert it to where? There's always going to be someone yelling NIMBY.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 7:44 pm

Answering my own question above - any oil not carried in pipelines is carried by train or truck. So in essence it's an out of sight, out of mind solution. There is no big target for protesters to go after even though the danger isn't out of your backyard at all and according to most statistics you're now in even more danger from spills and accidents. Congrats on that "solution"!!

by **DWags** 10/30/2016, 7:44 pm

LooseGoose wrote:
DWags wrote:Can you honestly say you'd be happy with that under your water source? Dad's gravesite? You can guarantee me safety, that wouldn't please me at all. It's not there for a year, but decades. How much more would it cost to divert it?

Wags? There already are pipelines under us all over the US. Building new, safer pipelines to replace old ones makes sense.

Divert it to where? There's always going to be someone yelling NIMBY.

I'm asking you goose. Would you like it at your dad's grave or under your water source?

by **Rocinante** 10/30/2016, 7:44 pm

xsanguine wrote:It's okay to generalize whites cause it earns you points with your "team", which is what matters when you have a strong desire to be part of a group. Must be that cuckold gene.... hence, white people are pussies.

White speaks from privilege, so you're right it's okay to make statements about whiteness. Check your privilege bro.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 7:47 pm

DWags wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Wags? There already are pipelines under us all over the US. Building new, safer pipelines to replace old ones makes sense.

Divert it to where? There's always going to be someone yelling NIMBY.

I'm asking you goose. Would you like it at your dad's grave or under your water source?

Well my Dad doesn't have a grave, nor will I so that's not a good example for me. And as stated earlier there are already pipelines under the Great Lakes (the source of water for much of the State) and crisscrossing the state. There's a large pipeline just west of me so again depending on the spill that situation already exists.

The solution is to monitor the pipelines we have better and build new ones to replace the old ones.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 7:48 pm

Wags? Tell me pipelines aren't under you and I right now?

The armed white guys got off, the peaceful red guys are getting arrested in droves. - Page 2 Pipelines

The armed white guys got off, the peaceful red guys are getting arrested in droves. - Page 2 Pipelines

by **Rocinante** 10/30/2016, 7:50 pm

So again I will point out that my point is not that pipeline are right or wrong. I work in the energy industry. It's the huge difference in how the white power structure treats non white civil disobedience.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 7:51 pm

The existing one seems to miss us by a few states

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 7:51 pm

Rocinante wrote:So again I will point out that my point is not that pipeline are right or wrong. I work in the energy industry. It's the huge difference in how the white power structure treats non white civil disobedience.

Heh

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 7:53 pm

We should switch over to a black power structure like Africa has. Or an Asian one like china. Perhaps a Hispanic one like Brazil. Then we wouldn't have such violence and mistreatment of civilians.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 7:56 pm

Roc, out of curiosity, what is it about those bastard whites that makes them pieces of shit unlike those of African, Asian, middle eastern and Hispanic nations? What is naturally evil about those peckerwoods?

by Guest 10/30/2016, 8:03 pm

xsanguine wrote:The existing one seems to miss us by a few states

The existing Keystone pipeline does but the state is covered by other pipelines. In answering the question Wags was asking - where in Michigan is your water not in danger of contamination?

We should all support enhanced monitoring of existing lines and replacing old ones with new why would we make it difficult for companies to do that?

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 8:04 pm

I know. I'm just being a contrarian dick like usual.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 8:08 pm

I hired this marine from Texas to help me on these rewires and he won't stop going on about his days serving. Never wastes an opportunity to mention his confirmed kills or medals or whatever else and like GRR, thinks if you weren't a trust fund politicians attack dog you don't know anything about anything. Luckily he can run cable like a motherfucker (and works for peanuts).

by **Rocinante** 10/30/2016, 8:09 pm

xsanguine wrote:I know. I'm just being a contrarian dick like usual.

No you're being willfully ignorant. Oppression is deplorable no matter what color it comes in. We live in America, so on the most deep seeded level, it's white. You know this. Theorizing here: I think your decision to deny or ignore or make light of it is rooted in a fear that if the white power structure didn't exist, you'd have trouble competing.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 8:11 pm

Rocinante wrote:
xsanguine wrote:I know. I'm just being a contrarian dick like usual.

No you're being willfully ignorant. Oppression is deplorable no matter what color it comes in. We live in America, so on the largest, most deep seeded way, it's white. You know this. Theorizing here: I think your decision to deny or ignore or make light of it is rooted in a fear that if the white power structure didn't exist, you'd have trouble competing.

And why would I have trouble competing? I'd love to hear this.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 8:17 pm

What I'm getting at is you keep blaming white people for everyone's problems when the consistent variable seems to be 'power structure' itself. Yet you don't seem concerned with that, just white people this and white people that... as if your knowledge stops where the edge of your bubble does. I don't know where you grew up or who you've worked with but I've found it's pretty easy to compete within any group where you're the minority in that group. You just have to play the game differently. There's plenty of black people that compete just fine and excel within "white power structures" because they recognize the cultural differences and operate accordingly. Hispanics are a great example and have a reputation of running circles around their white counterparts in certain industries.

by **DWags** 10/30/2016, 8:27 pm

LooseGoose wrote:
DWags wrote:

I'm asking you goose. Would you like it at your dad's grave or under your water source?

Well my Dad doesn't have a grave, nor will I so that's not a good example for me. And as stated earlier there are already pipelines under the Great Lakes (the source of water for much of the State) and crisscrossing the state. There's a large pipeline just west of me so again depending on the spill that situation already exists.

The solution is to monitor the pipelines we have better and build new ones to replace the old ones.

I know. However it's just a yes or no.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 8:31 pm

Just face it, roc. All you see is race. Instead of focusing on the root of the problem you fixate on aesthetics. You're never going to solve any of the problems if you scratch the surface and think you struck gold with the problem. Just like these guys said in another thread (or maybe this one), you can replace 100% of the people in government and the problem will re manifest itself over a short time. You can fight for eliminating white people from this power structure and all you're going to get is another oppressive system that just looks darker.

by Guest 10/30/2016, 8:31 pm

DWags wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Well my Dad doesn't have a grave, nor will I so that's not a good example for me. And as stated earlier there are already pipelines under the Great Lakes (the source of water for much of the State) and crisscrossing the state. There's a large pipeline just west of me so again depending on the spill that situation already exists.

The solution is to monitor the pipelines we have better and build new ones to replace the old ones.

I know. However it's just a yes or no.

In a perfect world, no. But you know better than that.

Our entire economy functions on oil & gas and the reality is that all of these pipelines exist. They aren't going away, so why not work to make them safer?

by **Rocinante** 10/30/2016, 8:43 pm

"you keep blaming white people for everyone's problems"

Okay man.

by **Rocinante** 10/30/2016, 8:44 pm

xsanguine wrote:Just face it, roc. All you see is race. Instead of focusing on the root of the problem you fixate on aesthetics. You're never going to solve any of the problems if you scratch the surface and think you struck gold with the problem. Just like these guys said in another thread (or maybe this one), you can replace 100% of the people in government and the problem will re manifest itself over a short time. You can fight for eliminating white people from this power structure and all you're going to get is another oppressive system that just looks darker.

And now we begin the long nightmarish descent into your libertarian wet dream...

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 8:45 pm

Keep fighting those evil honkies, Roc. It's in your best interest.

by **xsanguine** 10/30/2016, 8:46 pm

Rocinante wrote:
xsanguine wrote:Just face it, roc. All you see is race. Instead of focusing on the root of the problem you fixate on aesthetics. You're never going to solve any of the problems if you scratch the surface and think you struck gold with the problem. Just like these guys said in another thread (or maybe this one), you can replace 100% of the people in government and the problem will re manifest itself over a short time. You can fight for eliminating white people from this power structure and all you're going to get is another oppressive system that just looks darker.

And now we begin the long nightmarish descent into your libertarian wet dream...

Its certainly easier to just blame a race of people for the problems. You and David Duke seem to have something in common.

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