Russia and Trump

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:So you already have Trump calling the CIA report about Russian interference ridiculous. There is a bi-partisan effort to investigate this issue further. Trump is off to an awesome start. Can't wait until he actually gets in office.

Here's a Fox News link so I don't get accused of spreading fake news...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/12/cia-report-russia-interference-in-2016-race-divides-republicans.html

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:So you already have Trump calling the CIA report about Russian interference ridiculous. There is a bi-partisan effort to investigate this issue further. Trump is off to an awesome start. Can't wait until he actually gets in office.

Here's a Fox News link so I don't get accused of spreading fake news...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/12/cia-report-russia-interference-in-2016-race-divides-republicans.html

(2) There were plenty of barbs directed at the former Soviet Union, whose downfall Vladimir Putin once called the great tragedy of the 20th century. Trump noted that in 1939 Poland was invaded "by Nazi Germany from the west and the Soviet Union from the east"; he made reference to the Katyn forest massacre of Polish leaders by the Soviets, the responsibility for which was denied for decades by Russians; he vividly and at considerable length described how the Red Army paused before Warsaw and let the Wehrmacht perpetrate a "hell on earth" massacre of Poles. During the Cold War, he said, "You stood in solidarity against oppression, against a lawless secret police, against a cruel and wicked system that impoverished your cities and your souls. And you won. Poland prevailed. Poland will always prevail."

These are not words that former KGB agent Vladimir Putin — whom some liberals still seem to regard as Trump's puppeteer — likes to hear, or memories he likes to hear evoked.

(3) More than these historic references, Putin must dislike Trump's call for Russia to "cease its destabilizing activities in Ukraine and elsewhere and its support for hostile regimes —including Syria and Iran."

And Putin must dislike also Trump's promise to secure "your access to alternative sources of energy, so Poland and its neighbors are never again held hostage to a single supplier of energy." The alternative source, of course, is liquefied natural gas plentifully provided by America's fracking revolution and being offloaded from ships in Poland's port on the Baltic Sea. The "single supplier" is Putin's Russia, which has exerted pressure on European countries by threatening to shut off (and in at least one case actually shutting off) the flow of gas in pipelines from Russia.

(6) Trump announced that the United States will sell the most advanced Patriot missile defense systems to Poland. This is a reversal of the policy of the Obama administration, which in 2009 abruptly abandoned the American commitment to station missile defense batteries in Poland and the Czech Republic — a decision that so irritated the Polish government of the time that its president reportedly refused to accept a midnight telephone call from then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announcing the decision.

LooseGoose wrote:yeah he's Putin's puppet.....this is tougher than anything Putin has seen in the last 10 years.

Trump's 'remarkable' speech in Poland

(2) There were plenty of barbs directed at the former Soviet Union, whose downfall Vladimir Putin once called the great tragedy of the 20th century. Trump noted that in 1939 Poland was invaded "by Nazi Germany from the west and the Soviet Union from the east"; he made reference to the Katyn forest massacre of Polish leaders by the Soviets, the responsibility for which was denied for decades by Russians; he vividly and at considerable length described how the Red Army paused before Warsaw and let the Wehrmacht perpetrate a "hell on earth" massacre of Poles. During the Cold War, he said, "You stood in solidarity against oppression, against a lawless secret police, against a cruel and wicked system that impoverished your cities and your souls. And you won. Poland prevailed. Poland will always prevail."

These are not words that former KGB agent Vladimir Putin — whom some liberals still seem to regard as Trump's puppeteer — likes to hear, or memories he likes to hear evoked.

(3) More than these historic references, Putin must dislike Trump's call for Russia to "cease its destabilizing activities in Ukraine and elsewhere and its support for hostile regimes —including Syria and Iran."

And Putin must dislike also Trump's promise to secure "your access to alternative sources of energy, so Poland and its neighbors are never again held hostage to a single supplier of energy." The alternative source, of course, is liquefied natural gas plentifully provided by America's fracking revolution and being offloaded from ships in Poland's port on the Baltic Sea. The "single supplier" is Putin's Russia, which has exerted pressure on European countries by threatening to shut off (and in at least one case actually shutting off) the flow of gas in pipelines from Russia.

(6) Trump announced that the United States will sell the most advanced Patriot missile defense systems to Poland. This is a reversal of the policy of the Obama administration, which in 2009 abruptly abandoned the American commitment to station missile defense batteries in Poland and the Czech Republic — a decision that so irritated the Polish government of the time that its president reportedly refused to accept a midnight telephone call from then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announcing the decision.

Go ahead boys and tell me more of your Russian fantasies.....

LooseGoose wrote:yeah he's Putin's puppet.....this is tougher than anything Putin has seen in the last 10 years.

Trump's 'remarkable' speech in Poland

(2) There were plenty of barbs directed at the former Soviet Union, whose downfall Vladimir Putin once called the great tragedy of the 20th century. Trump noted that in 1939 Poland was invaded "by Nazi Germany from the west and the Soviet Union from the east"; he made reference to the Katyn forest massacre of Polish leaders by the Soviets, the responsibility for which was denied for decades by Russians; he vividly and at considerable length described how the Red Army paused before Warsaw and let the Wehrmacht perpetrate a "hell on earth" massacre of Poles. During the Cold War, he said, "You stood in solidarity against oppression, against a lawless secret police, against a cruel and wicked system that impoverished your cities and your souls. And you won. Poland prevailed. Poland will always prevail."

These are not words that former KGB agent Vladimir Putin — whom some liberals still seem to regard as Trump's puppeteer — likes to hear, or memories he likes to hear evoked.

(3) More than these historic references, Putin must dislike Trump's call for Russia to "cease its destabilizing activities in Ukraine and elsewhere and its support for hostile regimes —including Syria and Iran."

And Putin must dislike also Trump's promise to secure "your access to alternative sources of energy, so Poland and its neighbors are never again held hostage to a single supplier of energy." The alternative source, of course, is liquefied natural gas plentifully provided by America's fracking revolution and being offloaded from ships in Poland's port on the Baltic Sea. The "single supplier" is Putin's Russia, which has exerted pressure on European countries by threatening to shut off (and in at least one case actually shutting off) the flow of gas in pipelines from Russia.

(6) Trump announced that the United States will sell the most advanced Patriot missile defense systems to Poland. This is a reversal of the policy of the Obama administration, which in 2009 abruptly abandoned the American commitment to station missile defense batteries in Poland and the Czech Republic — a decision that so irritated the Polish government of the time that its president reportedly refused to accept a midnight telephone call from then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announcing the decision.

Go ahead boys and tell me more of your Russian fantasies.....

NigelUno wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:yeah he's Putin's puppet.....this is tougher than anything Putin has seen in the last 10 years.

Trump's 'remarkable' speech in Poland






Go ahead boys and tell me more of your Russian fantasies.....

How'd Tough Guy Trump do today?

GRR Spartan wrote:Sec of State just told us no sense dwelling in the past, US / Russia relations are too important to screw up with accusations of meddling in US elections.

Essentially, Move along. Nothing to see here.

LooseGoose wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:Sec of State just told us no sense dwelling in the past, US / Russia relations are too important to screw up with accusations of meddling in US elections.

Essentially, Move along. Nothing to see here.

In other words - get over your unhealthy obsession.

In winning the Cold War, President Ronald Reagan repeatedly touted the superiority of freedom over communism, and called the USSR the Evil Empire.

Yet, when President Obama delivered his address in Cairo, no such moral courage could be found. Instead of condemning the oppression of women and gays in many Muslim nations, and the systematic violations of human rights, or the financing of global terrorism, President Obama tried to draw an equivalency between our human rights record and theirs.

LooseGoose wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:Sec of State just told us no sense dwelling in the past, US / Russia relations are too important to screw up with accusations of meddling in US elections.

Essentially, Move along. Nothing to see here.

In other words - get over your unhealthy obsession.

LooseGoose wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:Sec of State just told us no sense dwelling in the past, US / Russia relations are too important to screw up with accusations of meddling in US elections.

Essentially, Move along. Nothing to see here.

In other words - get over your unhealthy obsession.

Turtleneck wrote:Finally, it was a joke when Trump said, "We empower women as pillars of our society and of our success," This is a man with a history of mostly objectifying women.

LooseGoose wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:Finally, it was a joke when Trump said, "We empower women as pillars of our society and of our success," This is a man with a history of mostly objectifying women.

Yeah, you're so right.   You'd never find a guy like that entrusting his campaign to 2 women.


For An Alleged ‘Sexist’, Donald Trump Sure Does Put A Lot Of Trust In Women

LooseGoose wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:Finally, it was a joke when Trump said, "We empower women as pillars of our society and of our success," This is a man with a history of mostly objectifying women.

Yeah, you're so right.   You'd never find a guy like that entrusting his campaign to 2 women.


For An Alleged ‘Sexist’, Donald Trump Sure Does Put A Lot Of Trust In Women

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Yeah, you're so right.   You'd never find a guy like that entrusting his campaign to 2 women.


For An Alleged ‘Sexist’, Donald Trump Sure Does Put A Lot Of Trust In Women

For the record goose, do you think a man could have strong smart women who are huge assets to his company and still be a piece of shit sexual predator?

Cause frankly, I think there's something within you that prevents you from thinking that through. Sorry brother, but it's precisely that blindness that perpetuates and helps keep women down and forgives bullies who abuse them. See Fox News.

LooseGoose wrote:

DWags wrote:

For the record goose, do you think a man could have strong smart women who are huge assets to his company and still be a piece of shit sexual predator?

Cause frankly, I think there's something within you that prevents you from thinking that through. Sorry brother, but it's precisely that blindness that perpetuates and helps keep women down and forgives bullies who abuse them. See Fox News.

Yes. But that wasn't the question I was responding to so it's unfair to apply my answer to a completely different question.

LooseGoose wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:Finally, it was a joke when Trump said, "We empower women as pillars of our society and of our success," This is a man with a history of mostly objectifying women.

Yeah, you're so right.   You'd never find a guy like that entrusting his campaign to 2 women.


For An Alleged ‘Sexist’, Donald Trump Sure Does Put A Lot Of Trust In Women

DWags wrote:Kelly Ann just spent a half hour on CNN saying Jr's setting up the Russian meeting to get dirt on Clinton was no big deal because, here it comes, nothing worthwhile came out of the meeting.

-not that it was set up
-not that it happened
-not that it was supposed to be a meeting to get damaging information
-not that he's always denied any type of meeting.

But only that it wasn't a very productive meeting.

These people are in charge, and they have followers.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:that lying sack of shit.

Turtleneck wrote:I did not find the speech to be all that remarkable. I suppose you could say it was Trump's best foreign policy speech to date, but at this point that is a fairly low bar to get across.

In an August 2016 foreign policy speech, Trump was critical of Obama for not using a 2009 speech in Egypt as an opportunity to address oppressive Middle Eastern regimes. Trump said:

In winning the Cold War, President Ronald Reagan repeatedly touted the superiority of freedom over communism, and called the USSR the Evil Empire.

Yet, when President Obama delivered his address in Cairo, no such moral courage could be found. Instead of condemning the oppression of women and gays in many Muslim nations, and the systematic violations of human rights, or the financing of global terrorism, President Obama tried to draw an equivalency between our human rights record and theirs.

Trump has been given the same opportunity twice. In Saudi Arabia, he could have addressed "the oppression of women and gays in many Muslim nations," but opted not to do so. In Poland, Trump had an opportunity to address the policies of Poland's ruling Law and Justice Party, which includes a crackdown on free speech, exerting state control over independent media, and judicial interference among others.

11. A Trump official’s least egregious quality ends up being portrayed as his most egregious quality. There were any number of reasons to be highly worried about the presence of Mike Flynn in the Trump administration, from his bellicose posture toward Iran, to his outlandish views on the alleged threat posed by Islam. Conversing with the Russian ambassador about reducing tensions would very clearly not have been on the “reasons to be worried about Flynn” list. Likewise, Jeff Sessions is a troubling figure for a whole host of reasons, ranging from his hawkishly retrograde attitude about Drug Prohibition to his dicey history on racial matters. That he spoke to the Russian Ambassador in September 2016 would not be on the “reasons to be worried about Sessions” list.

12. The overall political climate gets further degraded and warped without any commensurate upside.

13. Repeat.

LooseGoose wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:that lying sack of shit.

That's just not very nice.

As Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz stated yesterday, “it is unlikely that attendance at the meeting violated any criminal statute.” Well said, Mr. Dershowitz.

And yet, the media would have you believe that the meeting Trump Jr. described as “literally just a wasted 20 minutes” is a smoking gun that will inevitably take President Trump, his administration and his entire family down forever.

In reality, Trump Jr.’s emails show he has nothing to hide.

Further to this point, Trump Jr. went on “Hannity” last night to speak specifically about his actions. Granted, Sean Hannity is not always interested in giving a complete, unvarnished account of what happens in Trump World and his questions are softballs, but Trump Jr. made some important points nonetheless — namely, the fact that there was no subsequent follow-up or contact with the Russian lawyer and “nothing to tell” then-candidate Trump. Therefore, unless you decide to believe he is lying, there was no “collusion.” The holy grail is still missing.

This overeagerness to find a smoking gun ignores the fact that the Constitution's standard for impeachment and removal from office is not the criminal code but "high crimes and misdemeanors" — breaches of the public trust serious enough that two-thirds of senators feel justified in overriding the results of a presidential election.

That standard was not met in 1999, when most Republicans believed former President Bill Clinton's lies under oath — clearly a criminal offense — justified removal, but most Democrats believed his misbehavior was irrelevant to his official conduct.

There's no bipartisan consensus now that Trump should go, and an obvious political peril, as House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has recognized, in Democrats' campaigning not just for a check on the president — the usual off-year opposition theme — but for a futile 1999-style impeachment trial. Overreach is not usually good politics.

LooseGoose wrote:Sounds like this place - except here the realization it's overblown never strikes.

The Basic Formula For Every Shocking Russia/Trump Revelation

11. A Trump official’s least egregious quality ends up being portrayed as his most egregious quality. There were any number of reasons to be highly worried about the presence of Mike Flynn in the Trump administration, from his bellicose posture toward Iran, to his outlandish views on the alleged threat posed by Islam. Conversing with the Russian ambassador about reducing tensions would very clearly not have been on the “reasons to be worried about Flynn” list. Likewise, Jeff Sessions is a troubling figure for a whole host of reasons, ranging from his hawkishly retrograde attitude about Drug Prohibition to his dicey history on racial matters. That he spoke to the Russian Ambassador in September 2016 would not be on the “reasons to be worried about Sessions” list.

12. The overall political climate gets further degraded and warped without any commensurate upside.

13. Repeat.

Turtleneck wrote:

Another reason is I’ve found the whole feeding frenzy unappealing. The Democrats are clearly in full partisan mode, framing every inconvenient, benign, or even potentially exculpatory detail as a smoking gun. The whole “hacked the election” formulation, used both by the Democrats and by allegedly objective reporters, is a misleading bit of hyperbole. Is “meddled with” or “interfered in” too big a concession to reality? This is all true.

Meanwhile, there’s no shortage of hyperbole among those most eager to defend Trump on the Russia story. I’ve lost count of how many adjectives Sean Hannity uses to describe the media these days. I think it’s the “Alt-Left, Globalist Mainstream, Deep State, Destroy Trump, Get a Two-Liter Bottle of Pepsi When You Order a MAGA Pizza Media” now. More seriously, the rush to say there’s nothing to the collusion story is a mirror of the rush to insist the story is everything. There’s just not much room to say, “Maybe there’s something here. Let’s wait and see.” This is you.

What I just don’t understand is how conservatives can mock, scoff at, and ridicule the idea there might be some legs to this story when Donald Trump does everything he can to make it look like there might be a there there. He fired the FBI director. He told the Russian ambassador he did it to thwart the Russia investigation. He told Lester Holt the same thing. Donald Trump is clearly obsessed with the Russia story and with forging a bromance with Vladimir Putin. Both his son and his son-in-law have ties to Russia and keep having to revise their denials, making anyone who believed them in the first place look foolish. This is also true. Time-and-time again, you do not address why the president and his staff do so much to keep the story going. If you cannot see that, you are no more likely to be able to have a reasoned conversation than the people you are criticizing.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/449366/donald-trump-jr-russia-why-not-just-wait-and-see

LooseGoose wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

they are all incredibly stupid or just liars

DWags wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

they are all incredibly stupid or just liars

Yes.

Turtleneck wrote:

DWags wrote:

Yes.

I did not leave room for the possibility of being both.

LooseGoose wrote:"Reckless and unworthy".....and Dems wonder why the NYT has a credibility problem with Rs.

Russia is an unsavory player. In December, Vladimir Putin’s party tried to steal a parliamentary election; this month, he faced fraud charges from international observers after his own re-election as president. He has cracked down on critics and restricted democracy. His support for President Bashar al-Assad of Syria is unconscionable.

But Russia can’t be wished away or denounced away. It has to be challenged and the relationship managed with vigilance and skepticism. The administration was right to express concerns about the stolen parliamentary election — drawing verbal attacks on Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton — and to try to publicly shame the Kremlin on Syria. Mr. Obama also needs to more firmly support democracy in Russia and remind Mr. Putin that many obstacles to cooperation are of his own making.