Abortion - Societal accepted Eugenics

CBS News‏Verified account @CBSNews  12h12 hours ago
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Iceland is on pace to virtually eliminate Down syndrome through abortion. #CBSNOA learns more, tonight at 10pm ET/PT http://cbsn.ws/2uGMd5G



"What kind of society do you want to live in?": Inside the country where Down syndrome is disappearing

Using an ultrasound, blood test and the mother's age, the test, called the Combination Test, determines whether the fetus will have a chromosome abnormality,  the most common of which results in Down syndrome. Children born with this genetic disorder have distinctive facial issues and a range of developmental issues. Many people born with Down syndrome can live full, healthy lives, with an average lifespan of around 60 years.

Other countries aren't lagging too far behind in Down syndrome termination rates. According to the most recent data available, the United States has an estimated termination rate for Down syndrome of 67 percent (1995-2011); in France it's 77 percent (2015); and Denmark, 98 percent (2015). The law in Iceland permits abortion after 16 weeks if the fetus has a deformity -- and Down syndrome is included in this category.

"aren't lagging too far behind" - selling that it's a good thing they're killing off their most weak and helpless.

Look, I'm totally against this in regards to abortion. I've worked with people with disabilities for 7 years before the current job. Wonderful humans, better than 99 percent of the population.

However I'll cliff notes this for you. When you cut the safety net it kills families that take care of these kids. I worked for an NPO that supported people with disabilities, the dollars we raised couldn't cover the support needed even for one program and it was focused on getting them jobs to get off government support ...dont even get me started with the local churches (they don't really care about the poor).

Fiscally to care for a child with a disability it'll probably run you 50,000 a year to 80,000. Only the very upper class families I supported could handle this. Without some "residistrubition" you won't attract the talent needed to help these people out, nor allow families to access support. It's why I left, I loved it but after a while working 80 hours a week for 32k with a master's, well do the math. I could easily make a case for a conservative that unless a family is making around 150k, heck they are being fiscally responsible but not taking care of a child with a disability.

Let's not even touch the education piece, that's a whole different monster.

I don't really want to start an abortion argument.

I read the story, Iceland isn't forcing women to get an abortion when they test positive for a chromosome disorder. The women and/or their S/O are making the decision. I don't have any judgement against people who make this choice. Having a child with a disability is not for everyone. I don't know how to explain it, your whole life needs to be re-evaluated or planned out and there are no guidelines like there are for 'normal' kids. As long as women aren't being forced into abortions because there is an abnormal chromosome, I don't fault them.

This is typical of the OP.

Deflect Deflect Deflect

Were the events in Charlottesville VA including the torch parade, chants of "blood and soil" the assasination of a counter demonstrator with a vehicle and the collateral damage of two policeman's deaths all Fake News?

Quiet as a church mouse for days followed by another abortion thread.

quick reminder that most "pro-life", anti-abortion advocates support the death penalty.

GRR Spartan wrote:This is typical of the OP.

Deflect Deflect Deflect

Were the events in Charlottesville VA including the torch parade, chants of "blood and soil" the assasination of a counter demonstrator with a vehicle and the collateral damage of two policeman's deaths all Fake News?

Quiet as a church mouse for days followed by another abortion thread.

I don't agree with that. It's an interesting topic but it really paints the converstive model into a corner on cost of care just on it's own. I'm not a socialist but I've seen the positive results they can produce in regards to this specific population that is coupled with community support.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:quick reminder that most "pro-life", anti-abortion advocates support the death penalty.

Well it'll be a slow death without funding.

LooseGoose wrote:CBS News‏Verified account @CBSNews  12h12 hours ago
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Iceland is on pace to virtually eliminate Down syndrome through abortion. #CBSNOA learns more, tonight at 10pm ET/PT http://cbsn.ws/2uGMd5G



"What kind of society do you want to live in?": Inside the country where Down syndrome is disappearing

Using an ultrasound, blood test and the mother's age, the test, called the Combination Test, determines whether the fetus will have a chromosome abnormality,  the most common of which results in Down syndrome. Children born with this genetic disorder have distinctive facial issues and a range of developmental issues. Many people born with Down syndrome can live full, healthy lives, with an average lifespan of around 60 years.

Other countries aren't lagging too far behind in Down syndrome termination rates. According to the most recent data available, the United States has an estimated termination rate for Down syndrome of 67 percent (1995-2011); in France it's 77 percent (2015); and Denmark, 98 percent (2015). The law in Iceland permits abortion after 16 weeks if the fetus has a deformity -- and Down syndrome is included in this category.

"aren't lagging too far behind" - selling that it's a good thing they're killing off their most weak and helpless.

they should do what we do and just put 'em on death row - let the government murder it's own citizens.. just like they do in those locales of morality like Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, North Korea..

The OP's support of "conservative" people he has supported over the years shows he Is willing to ignore the loss of life in one instance like the events in VA and pivot to his anti-abortion views when defection is required.

Typical deflection. Similar to his faux outrage about the special needs couple in Oregon losing custody of their children but again the OP is high on outrage with no real world answers.

Every time Trump steps on his own dick you can count on some threads to create some deflection by Trump's biggest cheer leader on this board.

LooseGoose wrote:CBS News‏Verified account @CBSNews  12h12 hours ago
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Iceland is on pace to virtually eliminate Down syndrome through abortion. #CBSNOA learns more, tonight at 10pm ET/PT http://cbsn.ws/2uGMd5G



"What kind of society do you want to live in?": Inside the country where Down syndrome is disappearing

Using an ultrasound, blood test and the mother's age, the test, called the Combination Test, determines whether the fetus will have a chromosome abnormality,  the most common of which results in Down syndrome. Children born with this genetic disorder have distinctive facial issues and a range of developmental issues. Many people born with Down syndrome can live full, healthy lives, with an average lifespan of around 60 years.

Other countries aren't lagging too far behind in Down syndrome termination rates. According to the most recent data available, the United States has an estimated termination rate for Down syndrome of 67 percent (1995-2011); in France it's 77 percent (2015); and Denmark, 98 percent (2015). The law in Iceland permits abortion after 16 weeks if the fetus has a deformity -- and Down syndrome is included in this category.

"aren't lagging too far behind" - selling that it's a good thing they're killing off their most weak and helpless.

Is there a reason you ignored the title and the quotes about heavy handed genetics?

I can tell you guys from first hand experience, there is very little help out there. My insurance is denying therapies because my son has Down's and the state I live in has severely cut any federal aid, so he only was able to get one service. I will say, if we made less money we'd get more help. The cynic in me says that the direction our government is heading in, there isn't going to be any help for him in the future, and that will probably put a severe fiscal responsibility upon us and maybe even my daughter.

InTenSity wrote:I can tell you guys from first hand experience, there is very little help out there. My insurance is denying therapies because my son has Down's and the state I live in has severely cut any federal aid, so he only was able to get one service. I will say, if we made less money we'd get more help. The cynic in me says that the direction our government is heading in, there isn't going to be any help for him in the future, and that will probably put a severe fiscal responsibility upon us and maybe even my daughter.

true.

Our current leadership in America is anything but "pro-life".. I'm sorry that you and your family are in the situation you're in.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

InTenSity wrote:I can tell you guys from first hand experience, there is very little help out there. My insurance is denying therapies because my son has Down's and the state I live in has severely cut any federal aid, so he only was able to get one service. I will say, if we made less money we'd get more help. The cynic in me says that the direction our government is heading in, there isn't going to be any help for him in the future, and that will probably put a severe fiscal responsibility upon us and maybe even my daughter.

true.

Our current leadership in America is anything but "pro-life".. I'm sorry that you and your family are in the situation you're in.

We're fine Bob, thank you though, although I never want anyone to feel sorry for us. Maybe if I have to ask for money in the streets, then it would be ok. I'm trying to plan our future, and without a ton of extra money each month I want to make sure that whatever I decide to do to start something for him, it is the best thing to do. IE start a mutual fund, or get Life Insurance or whatever it is.

InTenSity wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:true.

Our current leadership in America is anything but "pro-life".. I'm sorry that you and your family are in the situation you're in.

We're fine Bob, thank you though, although I never want anyone to feel sorry for us. Maybe if I have to ask for money in the streets, then it would be ok. I'm trying to plan our future, and without a ton of extra money each month I want to make sure that whatever I decide to do to start something for him, it is the best thing to do. IE start a mutual fund, or get Life Insurance or whatever it is.

I hear ya - and I know you aren't looking for sympathy. It just sucks all the way around.

Pro life right up until its time to part with money.

A lot like the outrage shown in the Oregon thread started by the OP bitching about "the progressive state" and the special needs couple whose children were removed from their home.

Lots of moral outrage while continuing to support candidates who have a goal is to eliminate or significantly shrink what's left of the social safety net so government doesn't "take money" aka taxes.

Its a facade. Its all about cutting taxes using morality.

InTenSity wrote:I can tell you guys from first hand experience, there is very little help out there. My insurance is denying therapies because my son has Down's and the state I live in has severely cut any federal aid, so he only was able to get one service. I will say, if we made less money we'd get more help. The cynic in me says that the direction our government is heading in, there isn't going to be any help for him in the future, and that will probably put a severe fiscal responsibility upon us and maybe even my daughter.

Fuck your insurance company too. Hang in there. Right wingers are evil bastards.

InTenSity wrote:I don't really want to start an abortion argument.

I read the story, Iceland isn't forcing women to get an abortion when they test positive for a chromosome disorder. The women and/or their S/O are making the decision. I don't have any judgement against people who make this choice. Having a child with a disability is not for everyone. I don't know how to explain it, your whole life needs to be re-evaluated or planned out and there are no guidelines like there are for 'normal' kids. As long as women aren't being forced into abortions because there is an abnormal chromosome, I don't fault them.

But the OP does because the President he supports won't walk away from white supremacists and his political calculus appears he's running his 2020 campaign that will need the alt right to win.

I'm no geneticist and as stated, no one is forcing people to be tested. No US governmental unit is requiring women whose tests indicate Downs Syndrome, Fragile X or other profound maladies to get an abortion.

Based on the population of individuals with Downs Syndrome and the population that has children with Downs Syndrome it's nearly impossible to breed or CRISPR (gene engineer) Downs Syndrome out of existence. Even if it was done, the people on the cutting edge of CRISPR say they have no clue what else would be affected if they were able to eliminate that particular genetic sequence. Unintended consequesnces scare the hell out of them.

It's another faux outrage thread the OP either didn't think out like the Oregon child custody thread or it's more deflection.

GRR Spartan wrote:This is typical of the OP.

Deflect Deflect Deflect

Were the events in Charlottesville VA including the torch parade, chants of "blood and soil" the assasination of a counter demonstrator with a vehicle and the collateral damage of two policeman's deaths all Fake News?

Quiet as a church mouse for days followed by another abortion thread.

Fuck you. You're an ass. Why in the hell do I need to comment on Nazis? But here just so you can go stroke yourself:

500 Nazis show up, 1000 media show up to cover them, 2500 counter protesters show up to fight them. A witches brew for trouble that I have nothing to do with on any side. You go ahead and defend the side of your choice. I'll defend none of them. They all went looking for trouble and they got it, what a shocker.

GRR Spartan wrote:Pro life right up until its time to part with money.

Up your fat ass.

I part with $$ often to help other people.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:quick reminder that most "pro-life", anti-abortion advocates support the death penalty.

Reminder 40,000 abortions since 1973 for every SINGLE death penalty carried out.

Patricia Heaton‏Verified account @PatriciaHeaton  16h16 hours ago
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Patricia Heaton Retweeted CBS News
Iceland isn't actually eliminating Down Syndrome. They're just killing everybody that has it. Big difference. #Downsyndrome #abortion

NigelUno wrote:Is there a reason you ignored the title and the quotes about heavy handed genetics?

Sorry I'm not serving you properly....or maybe you can ignore the statistics and rationalize that it's ok because it's not 100%.

85% take the tests. Nearly 100% abort. But that's ok because they're not killing all of the babies. Jeezus.

Since prenatal screening tests were introduced in Iceland in the early 2000s, the vast majority of women -- close to 100 percent -- who received a positive test for Down syndrome terminated their pregnancy.

While the tests are optional, the government states that all expectant mothers must be informed about availability of screening tests, which reveal the likelihood of a child being born with Down syndrome. Around 80 to 85 percent of pregnant women choose to take the prenatal screening test, according to Landspitali University Hospital in Reykjavik.

LooseGoose wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:This is typical of the OP.

Deflect Deflect Deflect

Were the events in Charlottesville VA including the torch parade, chants of "blood and soil" the assasination of a counter demonstrator with a vehicle and the collateral damage of two policeman's deaths all Fake News?

Quiet as a church mouse for days followed by another abortion thread.

Fuck you. You're an ass. Why in the hell do I need to comment on Nazis? But here just so you can go stroke yourself:

500 Nazis show up, 1000 media show up to cover them, 2500 counter protesters show up to fight them. A witches brew for trouble that I have nothing to do with on any side. You go ahead and defend the side of your choice. I'll defend none of them. They all went looking for trouble and they got it, what a shocker.

You should've stopped after that. Even if it was 'only' 10 Nazi's that showed up, there should be zero tolerance for it. I'm not really sure it matters how many other people showed up to stop those nazi's, it really shouldn't matter. Didn't this country go to war to stop them?

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:quick reminder that most "pro-life", anti-abortion advocates support the death penalty.

Reminder 40,000 abortions since 1973 for every SINGLE death penalty carried out.

False equivalent. But you know that

InTenSity wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:



Fuck you.   You're an ass.   Why in the hell do I need to comment on Nazis?  But here just so you can go stroke yourself:

500 Nazis show up, 1000 media show up to cover them, 2500 counter protesters show up to fight them.   A witches brew for trouble that I have nothing to do with on any side.   You go ahead and defend the side of your choice.  I'll defend none of them.  They all went looking for trouble and they got it, what a shocker.  

You should've stopped after that. Even if it was 'only' 10 Nazi's that showed up, there should be zero tolerance for it. I'm not really sure it matters how many other people showed up to stop those nazi's, it really shouldn't matter. Didn't this country go to war to stop them?

Bullshit.  Go read about 1978 Skokie, IL and the Nazis.   WWII and the Holocaust were much more real for people then that it is today. The ACLU went to the mat for the Nazis to march.  Why?   Free speech.

The other people showed up for a fight and one happened.   The press hoped for a fight for the now days of coverage they got out of it. Ratings bonanza. $$$$

So if you want to call me a nazi sympathizer because I defend their right to march then paint the ACLU with the same brush.  It's the 1st amendment.  If you don't like it then go to work and change it so no Nazis can speak.   Then maybe people can change it so I can't speak against abortion.   And Bob can change it so no one can speak in favor of the death penalty.   Once you begin limiting speech you tell me where it stops?

And as far at the counter protesters the argument seems to be they had every right to beat those people up because they're Nazis.   Again where does that end?   Is it a hate crime that they were beaten for their beliefs?  what beliefs is it ok to beat the shit out of someone for holding?   who decides that?   Where is the list I can consult?    Let's see you believe in UFOs and that's dumb so I can beat the shit out of you while the world cheers me on?   Is that the society you want?

And now go ahead and tell me you want a society without hate like those nazis.   What were the counter protesters showing the Nazis?Is that some new form of love that I'm not familiar with?   Is that the kind of loving society you want?

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Reminder 40,000 abortions since 1973 for every SINGLE death penalty carried out.

False equivalent. But you know that

I agree. Innocent babies vs convicted felons.

LooseGoose wrote:

DWags wrote:

False equivalent. But you know that

I agree. Innocent babies vs convicted felons.

Again, you know better than this.

My point RE: the press and the counter protesters is simple.

Had they ignored the fucking Nazis and allowed them their constitutionally protected march nothing would have happened. No one would have died. No one would have gotten hurt. That's essentially what's happened at 100's of Nazi marches over the past 50 years. What made this different?

My theory is the EVERYONE from the Press and the Counter Protesters knew how this would play on TV so they went in spoiling for a fight and the press wanted to be there to cover it.

It's like Intens telling me to "stop right there" with the Nazis....he's obviously unaware that this type of March has been going on for DECADES without the kind of mayhem that occurred in Charlottesville. But now it scores political points to have it break into the shit it did and then for the Press to run wall to wall with it for days.

The american people being manipulated by the press. What a shock.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:quick reminder that most "pro-life", anti-abortion advocates support the death penalty.

Reminder 40,000 abortions since 1973 for every SINGLE death penalty carried out.

life = life

I'm sorry that you find some lives more important than others.

LooseGoose wrote:My point RE: the press and the counter protesters is simple.

Had they ignored the fucking Nazis and allowed them their constitutionally protected march nothing would have happened. No one would have died. No one would have gotten hurt. That's essentially what's happened at 100's of Nazi marches over the past 50 years. What made this different?

My theory is the EVERYONE from the Press and the Counter Protesters knew how this would play on TV so they went in spoiling for a fight and the press wanted to be there to cover it.

It's like Intens telling me to "stop right there" with the Nazis....he's obviously unaware that this type of March has been going on for DECADES without the kind of mayhem that occurred in Charlottesville. But now it scores political points to have it break into the shit it did and then for the Press to run wall to wall with it for days.

The american people being manipulated by the press. What a shock.

This is actually a bit nausiating to read. But I"m not surprised by it. Nor was I surprised by Trumps lack of leadership here.

LooseGoose wrote:

DWags wrote:

False equivalent. But you know that

I agree. Innocent babies vs convicted felons.

LooseGoose wrote:5 weeks onward there is a verifiable heartbeat which for most people is the sign of a life.

convicted felons have verifiable heartbeats....

LooseGoose wrote:My point RE: the press and the counter protesters is simple.

Had they ignored the fucking Nazis and allowed them their constitutionally protected march nothing would have happened. No one would have died. No one would have gotten hurt. That's essentially what's happened at 100's of Nazi marches over the past 50 years. What made this different?

My theory is the EVERYONE from the Press and the Counter Protesters knew how this would play on TV so they went in spoiling for a fight and the press wanted to be there to cover it.

It's like Intens telling me to "stop right there" with the Nazis....he's obviously unaware that this type of March has been going on for DECADES without the kind of mayhem that occurred in Charlottesville. But now it scores political points to have it break into the shit it did and then for the Press to run wall to wall with it for days.

The american people being manipulated by the press. What a shock.

that's why we have a racist, sexist, bigoted sexual predator as President of the United States.

LooseGoose wrote:My point RE: the press and the counter protesters is simple.

Had they ignored the fucking Nazis and allowed them their constitutionally protected march nothing would have happened.   No one would have died.   No one would have gotten hurt.  That's essentially what's happened at 100's of Nazi marches over the past 50 years.  What made this different?

My theory is the EVERYONE from the Press and the Counter Protesters knew how this would play on TV so they went in spoiling for a fight and the press wanted to be there to cover it.

It's like Intens telling me to "stop right there" with the Nazis....he's obviously unaware that this type of March has been going on for DECADES without the kind of mayhem that occurred in Charlottesville.   But now it scores political points to have it break into the shit it did and then for the Press to run wall to wall with it for days.  

The american people being manipulated by the press.   What a shock.

the counter protestors had a right to protest.

they also had verifiable heartbeats - which means you should be outraged that they were murdered by a Nazi/sexual predator supporter.

LooseGoose wrote:My point RE: the press and the counter protesters is simple.

Had they ignored the fucking Nazis and allowed them their constitutionally protected march nothing would have happened. No one would have died. No one would have gotten hurt. That's essentially what's happened at 100's of Nazi marches over the past 50 years. What made this different?

My theory is the EVERYONE from the Press and the Counter Protesters knew how this would play on TV so they went in spoiling for a fight and the press wanted to be there to cover it.

It's like Intens telling me to "stop right there" with the Nazis....he's obviously unaware that this type of March has been going on for DECADES without the kind of mayhem that occurred in Charlottesville. But now it scores political points to have it break into the shit it did and then for the Press to run wall to wall with it for days.

The american people being manipulated by the press. What a shock.

I would've thought that marching with tiki torches through a campus trying to intimidate would have made the march, or whatever it was, no longer protected. Again, I didn't have much time to watch TV over the weekend. I'm not calling you a Nazi sympathizer, but it seems like you are trying to justify their actions this weekend, which is the preaching of hate, which leads to some people being able to be manipulated to the point in which they drive their car into a bunch of people.
I also find it disingenuous that these groups try to say they just want a peaceful rally, they kinda teach hate, which doesn't really work for peace.

I didn't mentioned nazi's in the quoted post.  I referenced the "Blood and Soil" chant and this thread's OP is the one who brought "500 Nazi's show up" and try to pivot to blaming Trump's reported "enemy" the media and counter protestors.

The OP assiduously avoided this board all weekend and Monday when the President gave a 2nd, delayed, response after taking criticism from both sides of the political aisle and he even used a teleprompter to do it.

The first post by the OP is about abortion and a convoluted explanation of how government could force testing.

We have known about genetic differences that produce people with Downs Syndrome for decades.  We also know that couples and women have had the option for testing to see if a child may have any number of maladies prior to birth including my wife and I since our last child was born after we were both closing in on 40.  

I will never understand how a self-indentified "conservative" retiree can sit in front of a computer screen and think his views should be one size fits all and continue to vote for "small government".

The OP's response to the special needs couple with intellectual challenges in Oregon turned out to be "leave them alone" when others and myself pointed out some of the reasons the state intervened and removed their child from their home. It appears the self labeled "conservative" has abandoned the live and let live, leave them alone credo he used for the couple in Oregon and thinks he and other zealots like him are certain embryo science will increase abortions and those affected the most shouldn't have a say in the matter.

Yet to date almost every candidate the OP has said he supports want to eliminate funding for children whose parents need help, support candidates who want to make it more difficult to afford family health care and  support legislation that allows states to let insurance companies reduce or eliminate coverage like poster InTenSity is currently experiencing.  

I think Patricia Heaton is a good actress and I disagree with her pro life position.  She's a financial success but she is no more qualified than yourself to make personal decisions with no plan to help out folks like InTenSity and his wife.

Feel free to drop more  F-bombs.  Kind of funny coming from an individual who claims the moral high ground.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:My point RE: the press and the counter protesters is simple.

Had they ignored the fucking Nazis and allowed them their constitutionally protected march nothing would have happened.   No one would have died.   No one would have gotten hurt.  That's essentially what's happened at 100's of Nazi marches over the past 50 years.  What made this different?

My theory is the EVERYONE from the Press and the Counter Protesters knew how this would play on TV so they went in spoiling for a fight and the press wanted to be there to cover it.

It's like Intens telling me to "stop right there" with the Nazis....he's obviously unaware that this type of March has been going on for DECADES without the kind of mayhem that occurred in Charlottesville.   But now it scores political points to have it break into the shit it did and then for the Press to run wall to wall with it for days.  

The american people being manipulated by the press.   What a shock.

the counter protestors had a right to protest.

they also had verifiable heartbeats - which means you should be outraged that they were murdered by a Nazi/sexual predator supporter.

This. It's bonker balls that this needs to be said but you can't play the first amendment card for one but not the other. Bonker balls. The whole country is presently bonker balls.

Sorry Loose, but the alt-right does not give a shit about your free speech argument.

Couldn't help but notice the OP wanted to blame the counter protestors.

I hear all this pro life blather with no programs.

The OP is a zealot who wants to ban abortion and uses Finland as an example of eugenics.  Its not eugenics because the Finnish couples and women who choose to terminate their pregnacy aren't forced to end that pregnancy.  They do so of they own free will and that's in a country that has a decentralized 3 tier health care system that offers better coverage than most Americans can afford.

But in the OP's "conservative" mind, US parents shoudn't have a choice to end a pregnancy and they should be responsible for any and all care including higher insurance premiums because Downs Syndome patients are born with congenital heart defects.  They also have high incidence of auto immune diseases, diabetes, coeliac disease and other maladies that occur much less frequently in the general population.

In my America, embryonic testing should be available.

No one should be forced to have tests on their unborn child.

Abortion should be an option for those who decide for whatever reasons they are unable to raise a special needs child.

If a woman or couple end up as the parent(s) of a special needs child because they chose not to have tests or had those tests and proceeded they deserve to have the state and Federal support for that special needs child for its entire life.

We have heard what difficulties InTenSity and his wife are facing and will face in the future caring for their child.  I have an acquaintance who has a Downs Syndrome child in their family.  6 children, child #5 has Downs.  

The child is now a young adult and the parents, both over 60 have him in their home again because several attempts of trasitioning to group homes failed due to emotional outbursts, punched walls, punched staff and a couple escape attempts.  The rub is the nearest sibling is 2 hours away and the rest are 4-5 up to 8 hours away.  
Who's the next care giver?
Is that family's insurance going to sky rockeyt or do they watch as they are deemed uninsurable if the ACA is repealed as a significant number of "conservative" politicians have indicated they want to see happen.

In my version of America people have a choice to be tested.  Woman has a choice to bear a child and once every child is born there is a social safety net in place so that special needs child isn't a burden on parents as get elderly and doesn't become the sole responsibility of survivors.

But that costs money and we know conservative fiscal responsibility is heartless.  
No 30 second sound bytes or heartfelt tweets by a famous actress are going to solve those issues.

It's not forcing them, it's their choice. Hubby and I decided if our baby had a disability like that, we would have choose abortion. I feel no shame about it. I have a high respect to those who raise their disabled children. it's not something I would choose for myself.

Dendrobates wrote:It's not forcing them, it's their choice. Hubby and I decided if our baby had a disability like that, we would have choose abortion. I feel no shame about it. I have a high respect to those who raise their disabled children. it's not something I would choose for myself.

Completely respect this and hope future parents are afforded this choice. My wife and I chose not to do the Amneo test with the big needle because we believe we could handle a very rough road and we were told we "tested positive" for Downs. It was kind of a stressful 6 months, and I remember after I had delivered my girl, going out in the hall and telling my family and my mom looking at me and quietly saying "is everything alright with her, and looking up at me and me saying yes and knowing she was asking me if our baby was down syndrome. Everyone knows it's very tough with a down syndrome child and nobody can tell you that's not a very hard choice. My hope is that future generations will get that choice. That we'll always have that choice.