Read this article about Russia

Try to keep an open mind, and resist the urge to mock and think about what is being said and what we can do to be smarter. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/inside-russias-attempt-to-hack-2018-and-2020

I think the writer has some common sense conclusions about the current administration and their intentions that Conservative folks will not like but I hope we can all (most?) agree on the underlying problem. And it's working.....hooo boy is it working.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Try to keep an open mind, and resist the urge to mock and think about what is being said and what we can do to be smarter. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/inside-russias-attempt-to-hack-2018-and-2020

I think the writer has some common sense conclusions about the current administration and their intentions that Conservative folks will not like but I hope we can all (most?) agree on the underlying problem. And it's working.....hooo boy is it working.

It certainly has worked. They've sowed discord.

1/2 the country is still in a daily outrage 2 years after an election.

And here's the facts no matter how many "scalps" Bob wants to credit to Mueller:

It's often been observed that special counsel Robert Mueller, assigned to investigate alleged Trump-Russia collusion in the 2016 presidential campaign, has yet to charge anyone with a crime involving Trump-Russia collusion in the 2016 presidential campaign.

The biggest of Mueller's indictments, that of one-time Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, has no connection at all to collusion. And until a few days ago, it appeared to have no connection to Donald Trump, either.

Now, though, Mueller has revealed why he believes the Manafort prosecution is related to the 2016 Trump campaign. It's a small part, a very small part, of the overall charges against Manafort. And it has nothing to do with any actions by the candidate – now the president – himself.

Despite the fact highlighted above the vast majority of people on this board believe otherwise. Russia has succeeded. Not in electing Trump but in duping a large group of Americans.

Byron York: Mueller reveals tenuous link between Manafort charges and Trump

Let's be clear. Here's the actual things Mueller has been retained as special council to investigate:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

That is different than your bolded text.

The truth will set us all free, and we're going to get it.

LooseGoose wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Try to keep an open mind, and resist the urge to mock and think about what is being said and what we can do to be smarter. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/inside-russias-attempt-to-hack-2018-and-2020

I think the writer has some common sense conclusions about the current administration and their intentions that Conservative folks will not like but I hope we can all (most?) agree on the underlying problem. And it's working.....hooo boy is it working.

It certainly has worked. They've sowed discord.

1/2 the country is still in a daily outrage 2 years after an election.

And here's the facts no matter how many "scalps" Bob wants to credit to Mueller:

It's often been observed that special counsel Robert Mueller, assigned to investigate alleged Trump-Russia collusion in the 2016 presidential campaign, has yet to charge anyone with a crime involving Trump-Russia collusion in the 2016 presidential campaign.

The biggest of Mueller's indictments, that of one-time Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, has no connection at all to collusion. And until a few days ago, it appeared to have no connection to Donald Trump, either.

Now, though, Mueller has revealed why he believes the Manafort prosecution is related to the 2016 Trump campaign. It's a small part, a very small part, of the overall charges against Manafort. And it has nothing to do with any actions by the candidate – now the president – himself.

Despite the fact highlighted above the vast majority of people on this board believe otherwise. Russia has succeeded. Not in electing Trump but in duping a large group of Americans.

Byron York: Mueller reveals tenuous link between Manafort charges and Trump

thanks for the mainstream media link.

I should not be surprised that you missed the point goose. The article is not about Trump colluding with Russia or Democrats believing that.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I should not be surprised that you missed the point goose. The article is not about Trump colluding with Russia or Democrats believing that.

I was just going to say that.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I should not be surprised that you missed the point goose. The article is not about Trump colluding with Russia or Democrats believing that.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I should not be surprised that you missed the point goose. The article is not about Trump colluding with Russia or Democrats believing that.

Is that as bad as showing outrage on a supreme Court nominee before one has actually been nominated?

LooseGoose wrote:

Most of the people reacting will be as well informed as these people.

Idiots....and they fucking vote.

https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=11100



All brainwashed like Bob that any Conservative is a racist.   Fools.

LooseGoose wrote:
1/2 the country is still in a daily outrage 2 years after an election.

Really? Do you see this outrage on a daily basis in Mio? Do you have some examples?

And are you counting people in the "1/2" that are still outraged by Hillary?

NigelUno wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:
1/2 the country is still in a daily outrage 2 years after an election.

Really?  Do you see this outrage on a daily basis in Mio?  Do you have some examples?

And are you counting people in the "1/2" that are still outraged by Hillary?  

 Goose seems consistently more outraged than anyone I know. I kind of worry about the guy.

hang in there, Goose!!  

Rocinante wrote:Let's be clear. Here's the actual things Mueller has been retained as special council to investigate:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

That is different than your bolded text.

The truth will set us all free, and we're going to get it.

That's not what Orange Fuckface & Senile Rudy would have you believe. WITCH HUNT!!!

Heat Miser wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Let's be clear. Here's the actual things Mueller has been retained as special council to investigate:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

That is different than your bolded text.

The truth will set us all free, and we're going to get it.

That's not what Orange Fuckface & Senile Rudy would have you believe. WITCH HUNT!!!

they also tell the deplorables that Mueller, Rosenstein, et al. are Democrats.

As I've said before, Russia has attempted to interfere with every election of ours, as well as internal politics in general, for the last 70 years, probably longer. And we've done the same to them. And let's not even get into how much both the US and Russia have meddled and very strongly influenced the outcome of elections and internal politics in other countries.

People being so aghast about Russia doing this is the funny part. I mean, we all know that there IS a former KGB hard-liner running things there for quite a few years now. Are we really pretending to be this naive? Hacking, twitter bots, etc. The onus is on us as a nation to prevent that.

Russia has been doing that shit since the 1930s. However, what is new is how the Democrats latched onto their meddling in an attempt to explain away how their candidate lost.

And they have kept feeding that line and have sowed more discord and distrust than the Russians could have ever done on their own.

Here's another thing our counter-intelligence sucks and pretty much always has. We need to beef that up and protect our assets and go on the offensive every once in awhile.

Oh my god you guys are dumb. What is new is people freaking out about it? Wtf.

Its a template to instill doubt about the efficacy of democracy and its working in the US. Not as well in the UK or Germany because they have decided Putin's IRA's purpose is to dismantle modern democracy.

Did anyone read and understand the article?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Did anyone read and understand the article?

Yeah I think we pretty much covered it.
Russia has been doing this shit forever
They're gonna do it again
We should either stop them, fuck them up in return or both.

Ok. Great. I still don't think that's the point. 

I think the point is HOW they're doing it now, and how so many people are falling for it and how we all need to be more diligent about BS proofing the information we're consuming and the sources it is coming from. Both sides.

Both sides wbh. Not the guys actively protecting the (witting or unwitting) foreign agent. But both sides.

Yes both sides. I'm sure none of us that oppose Trump have ever read a headline on Twitter or Facespace or somewhere and freaked out. And then when that information actually was distilled down it was completely misleading and/or blatantly false. I know I have. A few times I was diligent enough to actually track it down and realize why it was false/misleading but I'm sure there are other times that I didn't.

So then the problem is social media. Which makes sense because their profit motive is to keep you scrolling and clicking and fake news makes that more likely. People are basically stupid. There’s a few of us who actuallly read and dig, but the vast majority want to live in their echo chamber, and worse, they will fight you to not admit they’ve been fooled. That’s why leaders are needed that can regulate businesses that take advantage of how fucking stupid we are. But instead we have cowards that worship the almighty market and this weird new generation of psycho tech god-men. Dystopian.

Honestly dude I don't disagree that social media is a HUGE HUGE part of the problem. There is a cynical slice of me that says the only way to save our Democracy is to get rid of the internet. The flipside, as I've posted here before, is without the information flow, we would be blind to the vile, dirty shit that our leaders are doing. I am starting to believe - sometimes, maybe, that the benefit of the former outweighs the latter.

I tend to agree. But it needs to be controlled.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Honestly dude I don't disagree that social media is a HUGE HUGE part of the problem. There is a cynical slice of me that says the only way to save our Democracy is to get rid of the internet. The flipside, as I've posted here before, is without the information flow, we would be blind to the vile, dirty shit that our leaders are doing. I am starting to believe - sometimes, maybe, that the benefit of the former outweighs the latter.

It’s simple. We as a people have gotten ahead of our skis as far as being able to handle technology. We see the funny film clips of the daily show asking idiots at Trump rallies about the space force,and we’ve seen Fox News interview morons about a Supreme Court Justice that hadn’t been picked. We can blow it off, but those people exist. So, get them a nice shiny computer, get them internet access, get them in front of face book, and they will believe anything. We cant slow progress, and we cant take the internet away from idiots. So, here we are. I don’t have an answer, but I have opinions

Yeah, and the funny thing about those is they are heavily edited because they are for "entertainment". In some cases you're probably getting responses to questions that weren't even answered on camera. All it does is deepen the rift.

There are a few people who benefit from manipulating our stupidity. It’s not the Russians. They think it is. Just like we think it is.

Rocinante wrote:There are a few people who benefit from manipulating our stupidity. It’s not the Russians. They think it is. Just like we think it is.

You’re talking about our American oligarchs, aren’t you?

DWags wrote:

Rocinante wrote:There are a few people who benefit from manipulating our stupidity. It’s not the Russians. They think it is. Just like we think it is.

You’re talking about our American oligarchs, aren’t you?

I think American and not American have been meaning less and less to to the people I’m referring to for quite a while now.

We keep being warned of some one world government conspiracy when there is a global cabal already pulling all the strings. They are so few and we are so many and if we’d just wake up and see that, all their power is gone.

It’s fucked up because if I say too much about what I think. I’m the wacky conspiracy guy. But I’ve been drifting in this direction for a while now and what’s the saying? When presented with many hypotheses, the simplest is most often the correct one? I keep coming round to the same conclusion.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Ok. Great. I still don't think that's the point. 

I think the point is HOW they're doing it now, and how so many people are falling for it and how we all need to be more diligent about BS proofing the information we're consuming and the sources it is coming from. Both sides.

But they're using the same tactics that they've used for most of the last century, as well. The means of disseminating it has evolved with technology, but it's essentially the same tactics. Create and nurture discord, distrust, and division. But let's keep in mind that we've made it awfully easy for them, with so much distrust and division on our own. Look no further than tSwill Bin.

On the one hand, the internet and social media make it so much easier to reach so many more people. On the other hand, in the past it may have been coming from your direct peers. Imagine 40 years ago you're on MSU's campus, and there are flyers being posted, you hear people talking, maybe there's a rally, and it's all coming from other regular students, guys and girls that are just like you...or so they appear. Makes it easy to buy what they're saying.

Absolutely, we need to be more diligent in what we see/read/believe. The idea of "Fake News" has been bastardized to the point that Trump's followers use it to mean any news that they don't like is fake news, but we should all take a certain amount of that skepticism. On this board, everyone is skeptical of something that the other side posts, but seem to 100% accept whatever someone on their own side posts. As one of the more politically neutral and cynical people here, I just think you're all full of shit all the time.

Rocinante wrote:It’s fucked up because if I say too much about what I think. I’m the wacky conspiracy guy. But I’ve been drifting in this direction for a while now and what’s the saying? When presented with many hypotheses, the simplest is most often the correct one? I keep coming round to the same conclusion.

The fact that you think that a global cabal is the simplest explanation is what makes you wacky.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Rocinante wrote:It’s fucked up because if I say too much about what I think. I’m the wacky conspiracy guy. But I’ve been drifting in this direction for a while now and what’s the saying? When presented with many hypotheses, the simplest is most often the correct one? I keep coming round to the same conclusion.

The fact that you think that a global cabal is the simplest explanation is what makes you wacky.

I guarantee you can't find a more plausible one.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Ok. Great. I still don't think that's the point. 

I think the point is HOW they're doing it now, and how so many people are falling for it and how we all need to be more diligent about BS proofing the information we're consuming and the sources it is coming from. Both sides.

But they're using the same tactics that they've used for most of the last century, as well. The means of disseminating it has evolved with technology, but it's essentially the same tactics. Create and nurture discord, distrust, and division. But let's keep in mind that we've made it awfully easy for them, with so much distrust and division on our own. Look no further than tSwill Bin.

On the one hand, the internet and social media make it so much easier to reach so many more people. On the other hand, in the past it may have been coming from your direct peers. Imagine 40 years ago you're on MSU's campus, and there are flyers being posted, you hear people talking, maybe there's a rally, and it's all coming from other regular students, guys and girls that are just like you...or so they appear. Makes it easy to buy what they're saying.

Absolutely, we need to be more diligent in what we see/read/believe. The idea of "Fake News" has been bastardized to the point that Trump's followers use it to mean any news that they don't like is fake news, but we should all take a certain amount of that skepticism. On this board, everyone is skeptical of something that the other side posts, but seem to 100% accept whatever someone on their own side posts. As one of the more politically neutral and cynical people here, I just think you're all full of shit all the time.

Oh, and...



Glad you're above it all, cool guy.

Rocinante wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
The fact that you think that a global cabal is the simplest explanation is what makes you wacky.

I guarantee you can't find a more plausible one.

For what exactly?

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

I guarantee you can't find a more plausible one.

For what exactly?

Read the thread. I'm not going to handhold you through it. Unless you really want to talk, but I don't get the impression you do.

Rocinante wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
For what exactly?

Read the thread. I'm not going to handhold you through it. Unless you really want to talk, but I don't get the impression you do.

I have, but didn't know if you were talking general, wide ranging, Anti-pasta type cabals controlling everything, or a specific aspect. The thread is more specific, so going off that, I'd say it's simple and plausible that the Russians want to divide us and create internal distrust and turmoil for their own purposes (i.e., weaken the global superpower thus increasing their own stature). Nothing about a global cabal screams simple to me, and I have trouble considering it plausible that such a thing could be kept secret.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

Read the thread. I'm not going to handhold you through it. Unless you really want to talk, but I don't get the impression you do.

I have, but didn't know if you were talking general, wide ranging, Anti-pasta type cabals controlling everything, or a specific aspect. The thread is more specific, so going off that, I'd say it's simple and plausible that the Russians want to divide us and create internal distrust and turmoil for their own purposes (i.e., weaken the global superpower thus increasing their own stature). Nothing about a global cabal screams simple to me, and I have trouble considering it plausible that such a thing could be kept secret.

It's not really kept secret, is it? Money in governments all over the planet.

Rocinante wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
I have, but didn't know if you were talking general, wide ranging, Anti-pasta type cabals controlling everything, or a specific aspect. The thread is more specific, so going off that, I'd say it's simple and plausible that the Russians want to divide us and create internal distrust and turmoil for their own purposes (i.e., weaken the global superpower thus increasing their own stature). Nothing about a global cabal screams simple to me, and I have trouble considering it plausible that such a thing could be kept secret.

It's not really kept secret, is it? Money in governments all over the planet.

A cabal is, by definition, secret.

Money influencing governments does not equal a cabal. It's just people/companies acting in their own self interest. You said that the simplest explanation is usually correct? How is it more simple to think that several people/companies would get together and secretly agree on a course of action that would have to involve compromises of different views, as opposed to each person/company doing what benefits their own interests?

Point taken. But there is a lot of coordination, including well funded political action groups. And although they are visible, and sometimes we can see who funds them. Their activities are opaque to say the least and although each “member” might be acting in self interest, the common interest is less regulation and keeping the populace distracted with wedge issues. So I don’t think your characterization fits the facts as I see them.