Re: 2022 Midterm & Michigan Elections - Who Ya Got Winning?

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-07, 18:10

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Parts of the Democratic Party have abandoned the neoliberal model, right now the most important part of the party which has abandoned it is named Joe Biden.
Parts of the Democratic Party have abandoned Joe Biden. They’re called Progressives.

Progressives have been his strongest supporters. The moderates threw his BBB plan under the bus, and have made this election far too close.

by **kingstonlake** 2022-11-07, 18:35

Cameron was right.

by PennSpartan 2022-11-07, 19:35

Trapper Gus wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:
Parts of the Democratic Party have abandoned Joe Biden. They’re called Progressives.

Progressives have been his strongest supporters. The moderates threw his BBB plan under the bus, and have made this election far too close.

2022 Midterm & Michigan Elections - Who Ya Got Winning? - Page 24 2803167989

The ones who said he shouldn’t run in 2024?

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 08:17

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Progressives have been his strongest supporters. The moderates threw his BBB plan under the bus, and have made this election far too close.
The ones who said he shouldn’t run in 2024?

Not the same thing at all. Progressives supported Biden's policies, unlike moderates. I'm sure there are moderates who don't support a second Biden term, too.

2022 Midterm & Michigan Elections - Who Ya Got Winning? - Page 24 Screen61

by sεяεηιτλ 2022-11-08, 08:18

Who should I vote for for Michigan State board of trustees? Anyone have strong opinions? I think we need to clean house as much as possible but I thought i heard the democratic candidates are batshit crazy, not sure though

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 08:21

sεяεηιτλ wrote:Who should I vote for for Michigan State board of trustees? Anyone have strong opinions? I think we need to clean house as much as possible but I thought i heard the democratic candidates are batshit crazy, not sure though

https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t24631-who-should-i-vote-for-msu-bot

by sεяεηιτλ 2022-11-08, 08:25

Trapper Gus wrote:
sεяεηιτλ wrote:Who should I vote for for Michigan State board of trustees? Anyone have strong opinions? I think we need to clean house as much as possible but I thought i heard the democratic candidates are batshit crazy, not sure though

https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t24631-who-should-i-vote-for-msu-bot

It's a good thought, but doesn't answer my question really. Not truly. This is the one position where I'm probably willing to vote for an R if they are sane, but I'm not seeing it here, not in this election at least.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 08:32

sεяεηιτλ wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t24631-who-should-i-vote-for-msu-bot

It's a good thought, but doesn't answer my question really. Not truly. This is the one position where I'm probably willing to vote for an R if they are sane, but I'm not seeing it here, not in this election at least.

Pretty sure some of the Republicans on the board were those who wanting to fire Stanley over his covid policies.

Talking to one insider I was told that the big fight at the University is between the Business College and the rest of the Colleges, which might be why demoting the Business School Dean (with cause) caused such a fuss.

Cannot help you much, and it should be no surprise that I vote straight Democratic since my personal belief is that the current Republican Party, ever since it needlessly impeached Bill Clinton, has no goal other than gaining power for the extremely wealthy, and that is not in the interests of 99.9999% of the people in the country, so I cannot vote for Republicans.

by PennSpartan 2022-11-08, 08:49

Trapper Gus wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:
The ones who said he shouldn’t run in 2024?

Not the same thing at all. Progressives supported Biden's policies, unlike moderates. I'm sure there are moderates who don't support a second Biden term, too.

The classic simpleton progressive response. “If you aren’t a progressive, you’re a Republican”. Rolling Eyes

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 08:52

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Not the same thing at all. Progressives supported Biden's policies, unlike moderates. I'm sure there are moderates who don't support a second Biden term, too.

The classic simpleton progressive response. “If you aren’t a progressive, you’re a Republican”.

Not what I said at all, Penn.

by **kingstonlake** 2022-11-08, 09:02

PennSpartan wrote:
The classic simpleton progressive response. “If you aren’t a progressive, you’re a Republican”.

This is the same guy who says moderates determine all elections. His reasoning being they’ll vote for a party running 60% election deniers because they’re mad at student debt relief. Bitter old man, unhappy, mad at life and voting against his interest. Welcome to America.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2022-11-08, 09:04

my East Lansing precinct was a mad house.

funny how the conversations with other folks at the precinct changes over the years. We used to talk about the kids, their ballet recital, soccer camps, plans for the holidays., etc. Now the conversations are about how the kids are doing, where they live now, our health, retirement, etc.

it's cool but in some ways a little bittersweet.

by PennSpartan 2022-11-08, 09:07

Trapper Gus wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:
The classic simpleton progressive response. “If you aren’t a progressive, you’re a Republican”.

Not what I said at all, Penn.

You didn’t have to. Your comic strip did.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 09:08

kingstonlake wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:
The classic simpleton progressive response. “If you aren’t a progressive, you’re a Republican”.

This is the same guy who says moderates determine all elections. His reasoning being they’ll vote for a party running 60% election deniers because they’re mad at student debt relief. Bitter old man, unhappy, mad at life and voting against his interest. Welcome to America.

To be fair, for all his bluster Penn votes for Democratic Candidates only. He may be holding his nose as he does so, and he would rather the Democratic Candidates were less progressive, but he does hold the line.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 09:09

Robert J Sakimano wrote:my East Lansing precinct was a mad house.

funny how the conversations with other folks at the precinct changes over the years. We used to talk about the kids, their ballet recital, soccer camps, plans for the holidays., etc. Now the conversations are about how the kids are doing, where they live now, our health, retirement, etc.

it's cool but in some ways a little bittersweet.

It's called life, Bob.

Have you gotten to the "grandkids" stage yet?

by **NigelUno** 2022-11-08, 09:13

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:23 pages and it breaks down pretty simply if you ask me.

If abortion is really important to you you're voting Dem
If inflation is really important to you, you're voting republican

Say goodbye to the house and senate and hello to two years of chaos and higher cable news network ratings.

Yep. That's why the mainstream media works so hard to elect Republicans.

Everything is a business. And the chaos model makes money for a lot of people.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 09:14

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Not what I said at all, Penn.
You didn’t have to. Your comic strip did.

Ahhh ....

Comic strips are call "Comic" because they are meant to be comedy, which have an element of truth, but are extravagations.

You may not see that all the issues listed in that strip are policy positions which really cannot be ignored. What the solutions are may be varied, but they all need solutions.

by PennSpartan 2022-11-08, 09:16

Trapper Gus wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

This is the same guy who says moderates determine all elections. His reasoning being they’ll vote for a party running 60% election deniers because they’re mad at student debt relief. Bitter old man, unhappy, mad at life and voting against his interest. Welcome to America.

To be fair, for all his bluster Penn votes for Democratic Candidates only. He may be holding his nose as he does so, and he would rather the Democratic Candidates were less progressive, but he does hold the line.

I will proudly vote for Josh Shapiro and Matt Cartwright today. I’ll probably break out in a sweat as I fill in the oval for Fetterman. At least after today I never have to look at his damn hoodie again.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 09:19

NigelUno wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Yep. That's why the mainstream media works so hard to elect Republicans.

Everything is a business. And the chaos model makes money for a lot of people.

Government is in place because while businesses can provide significant benefits to many involved, the profit motive does not provide the best outcomes in all cases.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 09:20

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

To be fair, for all his bluster Penn votes for Democratic Candidates only. He may be holding his nose as he does so, and he would rather the Democratic Candidates were less progressive, but he does hold the line.
I will proudly vote for Josh Shapiro and Matt Cartwright today. I’ll probably break out in a sweat as I fill in the oval for Fetterman. At least after today I never have to look at his damn hoodie again.

Hopefully you do, six years from now.

by PennSpartan 2022-11-08, 09:27

Trapper Gus wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:
I will proudly vote for Josh Shapiro and Matt Cartwright today. I’ll probably break out in a sweat as I fill in the oval for Fetterman. At least after today I never have to look at his damn hoodie again.

Hopefully you do, six years from now.

He’ll either be in a suit and tie in the Senate or washed up. Maybe he can go back to being mayor of Braddock. But it only pays $150 a year and he’s got 3 or 4 kids. Yikes.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 09:31

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Hopefully you do, six years from now.
He’ll either be in a suit and tie in the Senate or washed up. Maybe he can go back to being mayor of Braddock. But it only pays $150 a year and he’s got 3 or 4 kids. Yikes.

Fair enough, though it may be a signature "go to" move during campaigning.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2022-11-08, 09:34

Robert J Sakimano wrote:my East Lansing precinct was a mad house.

funny how the conversations with other folks at the precinct changes over the years. We used to talk about the kids, their ballet recital, soccer camps, plans for the holidays., etc. Now the conversations are about how the kids are doing, where they live now, our health, retirement, etc.

it's cool but in some ways a little bittersweet.

It's called life, Bob.

yeah, I've heard of that.

Have you gotten to the "grandkids" stage yet?

not yet.. thankfully. Our daughter just turned 23 and I feel like a kid might get in the way of grad school. 2022 Midterm & Michigan Elections - Who Ya Got Winning? - Page 24 502811600

2022 Midterm & Michigan Elections - Who Ya Got Winning? - Page 24 502811600

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 09:37

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:my East Lansing precinct was a mad house.

funny how the conversations with other folks at the precinct changes over the years. We used to talk about the kids, their ballet recital, soccer camps, plans for the holidays., etc. Now the conversations are about how the kids are doing, where they live now, our health, retirement, etc.

it's cool but in some ways a little bittersweet.

It's called life, Bob.
yeah, I've heard of that.

Have you gotten to the "grandkids" stage yet?
not yet.. thankfully. Our daughter just turned 23 and I feel like a kid might get in the way of grad school.

It depends.

One of my in-law's family has female two MD's and both had their first child while in medical school. For woman the biological clock keeps ticking.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 09:43

Hi Penn - don't panic.

Republicans have put their plan in place to claim that the Pennsylvania Senate race has been stolen if Democrat John Fetterman wins it. On Tuesday morning—literally Election Day—following a lawsuit by Republicans, Philadelphia’s three-member elections board voted to reinstate a process that will make vote-counting take longer in Philadelphia than in the rest of the state. A Democratic winning margin would be expected to come from, yes, Philadelphia. Meanwhile, Republicans are reviving Donald Trump’s 2020 argument that votes counted later are somehow suspect. They’re making sure the largest pool of Democratic votes in the state gets counted more slowly, and then they will take that slowness as reason to claim the election is being stolen from Republicans.

by Rick Saunders 2022-11-08, 09:48

PennSpartan wrote:
I will proudly vote for Josh Shapiro and Matt Cartwright today. I’ll probably break out in a sweat as I fill in the oval for Fetterman. At least after today I never have to look at his damn hoodie again.

I'd be happy to have him wear his hoodie on the senate floor.

My friend (a well known political scientist and election expert) says Fetterman likely has a 300K vote lead in mail-ins right now (which as you know cannot be counted until today in PA) but still thinks Oz will win. My other friend (a well known pollster and co-worker with the first friend) thinks its going to be Fetterman. That's how close it looks to a couple of experts.

Right now inflation is a proxy issue for the real issue that people cannot or do not clearly express. There is little correlation between inflation and election outcome in mid-term elections since 1950. There is very high correlation between election outcome and mid-term elections and disposable income. Since 1950 there has never been a data point as bad as the current one for the president's party on disposable income. It is literally off the charts.

by sεяεηιτλ 2022-11-08, 09:50

Trapper Gus wrote:Hi Penn - don't panic.

Republicans have put their plan in place to claim that the Pennsylvania Senate race has been stolen if Democrat John Fetterman wins it. On Tuesday morning—literally Election Day—following a lawsuit by Republicans, Philadelphia’s three-member elections board voted to reinstate a process that will make vote-counting take longer in Philadelphia than in the rest of the state. A Democratic winning margin would be expected to come from, yes, Philadelphia. Meanwhile, Republicans are reviving Donald Trump’s 2020 argument that votes counted later are somehow suspect. They’re making sure the largest pool of Democratic votes in the state gets counted more slowly, and then they will take that slowness as reason to claim the election is being stolen from Republicans.

This is completely surprising, said no one except election deniars.

It's so extremely reprehensible when you can see the strategy from a mile away. But it's crap like this that shows me plainly that I am on the right side of history and that I am an American whereas these disgusting ugly Republicans are on the wrong side and are truly not American to their core.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2022-11-08, 09:53

sεяεηιτλ wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:Hi Penn - don't panic.

This is completely surprising, said no one except election deniars.

It's so extremely reprehensible when you can see the strategy from a mile away. But it's crap like this that shows me plainly that I am on the right side of history and that I am an American whereas these disgusting ugly Republicans are on the wrong side and are truly not American to their core.

and the mainstream media will play right into the anti-American playbook.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 09:58

Rick Saunders wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:
I will proudly vote for Josh Shapiro and Matt Cartwright today. I’ll probably break out in a sweat as I fill in the oval for Fetterman. At least after today I never have to look at his damn hoodie again.

I'd be happy to have him wear his hoodie on the senate floor.

My friend (a well known political scientist and election expert) says Fetterman likely has a 300K vote lead in mail-ins right now (which as you know cannot be counted until today in PA) but still thinks Oz will win. My other friend (a well known pollster and co-worker with the first friend) thinks its going to be Fetterman. That's how close it looks to a couple of experts.

Right now inflation is a proxy issue for the real issue that people cannot or do not clearly express. There is little correlation between inflation and election outcome in mid-term elections since 1950. There is very high correlation between election outcome and mid-term elections and disposable income. Since 1950 there has never been a data point as bad as the current one for the president's party on disposable income. It is literally off the charts.

A slight ray of sunshine for you - not at all confident it is real, however, here it is -

Republicans have finally decided that voting early DOES actually matter, and they are starting to panic about the early vote numbers. Why are they getting scared? TargetEarly just updated, and this my friends is what a Blue Wave looks like:

2022 Midterm & Michigan Elections - Who Ya Got Winning? - Page 24 Screen62

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/11/7/2134318/-MSNBC-is-a-Mess-GQP-in-a-Panic-Dems-Dominating-Early-Vote

by Rick Saunders 2022-11-08, 10:09

Trapper Gus wrote:
Rick Saunders wrote:

I'd be happy to have him wear his hoodie on the senate floor.

My friend (a well known political scientist and election expert) says Fetterman likely has a 300K vote lead in mail-ins right now (which as you know cannot be counted until today in PA) but still thinks Oz will win. My other friend (a well known pollster and co-worker with the first friend) thinks its going to be Fetterman. That's how close it looks to a couple of experts.

A slight ray of sunshine for you - not at all confident it is real, however, here it is -

Republicans have finally decided that voting early DOES actually matter, and they are starting to panic about the early vote numbers. Why are they getting scared? TargetEarly just updated, and this my friends is what a Blue Wave looks like:

My friends really are both acknowledging that conditions are unpredictable.

An anecdote with miniscule meaning: A person I am extremely close to works at a local, large retirement community. Almost all mailings to the residents are republican mailings. Many of the elderly residents this year are mailing ballots and have asked this person to check the ballot to be sure it is completed correctly and valid. This person doesn't really want to look at these ballots but has noted an unusual frequency of democratic votes. Just a story. No one knows what's going on with any confidence.

by **kingstonlake** 2022-11-08, 10:19

Trapper Gus wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

This is the same guy who says moderates determine all elections. His reasoning being they’ll vote for a party running 60% election deniers because they’re mad at student debt relief. Bitter old man, unhappy, mad at life and voting against his interest. Welcome to America.

To be fair, for all his bluster Penn votes for Democratic Candidates only. He may be holding his nose as he does so, and he would rather the Democratic Candidates were less progressive, but he does hold the line.

Which (if true… I’m skeptical) only illustrates what a hateful person he is about people within his own party.

Cam was right.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 10:24

kingstonlake wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

To be fair, for all his bluster Penn votes for Democratic Candidates only. He may be holding his nose as he does so, and he would rather the Democratic Candidates were less progressive, but he does hold the line.

Which (if true… I’m skeptical) only illustrates what a hateful person he is about people within his own party.

Cam was right.

I understand your skepticism, however, whenever the discussions in threads have gotten down to brass tacks Penn has always stated he is voting for Democratic candidates, and he has often said he is a proud member of the Democratic Party. He rails on about Progressives, and he hates some of the elected Progressives, but he hates Republicans far more. (Not sure what he would do if really faced with Sanders as a Presidential candidate, leave the ballot blank is my guess)

I do wish he would hold back his opinions a bit, or express them differently ...

However, he isn't entirely wrong about the need for a "big tent" Democratic Party, though he doesn't express that.

For some unknown reason he is like a dog which has been beat all its life and now reacts to everyone by cringing.

by **kingstonlake** 2022-11-08, 10:44

Trapper Gus wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Which (if true… I’m skeptical) only illustrates what a hateful person he is about people within his own party.

Cam was right.

I understand your skepticism, however, whenever the discussions in threads have gotten down to brass tacks Penn has always stated he is voting for Democratic candidates, and he has often said he is a proud member of the Democratic Party. He rails on about Progressives, and he hates some of the elected Progressives, but he hates Republicans far more. (Not sure what he would do if really faced with Sanders as a Presidential candidate, leave the ballot blank is my guess)

I do wish he would hold back his opinions a bit, or express them differently ...

However, he isn't entirely wrong about the need for a "big tent" Democratic Party, though he doesn't express that.

For some unknown reason he is like a dog which has been beat all its life and now reacts to everyone by cringing.

Yeah his posting history definitely illustrates that.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-08, 10:51

kingstonlake wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I understand your skepticism, however, whenever the discussions in threads have gotten down to brass tacks Penn has always stated he is voting for Democratic candidates, and he has often said he is a proud member of the Democratic Party. He rails on about Progressives, and he hates some of the elected Progressives, but he hates Republicans far more. (Not sure what he would do if really faced with Sanders as a Presidential candidate, leave the ballot blank is my guess)

I do wish he would hold back his opinions a bit, or express them differently ...

However, he isn't entirely wrong about the need for a "big tent" Democratic Party, though he doesn't express that.

For some unknown reason he is like a dog which has been beat all its life and now reacts to everyone by cringing.

Yeah his posting history definitely illustrates that.

I didn't say he hates their policy positions, often he is in line with their more rational positions, (aka positions on actually doing stuff) when we are not talking about all the RWNJ conspiracy theories. My feeling is that he has bought into the neoliberal viewpoint which was Jimmy Carter's & Bill Clinton's unfortunate contribution to serious Democratic ideas.

However, be that as it may, he emphatically states what I posted above, that he is a proud Democratic Party member and only votes for Democratic candidates. When challenged on that he can become very bombastic and annoying.

by **Rocinante** 2022-11-08, 11:12

It’s not about progressivism, Penn. it’s about realism. The fear, grievance, and blame message is powerful. Throughout human history. The only way to counter it is with a mission. Often that mission is a war, but fuck that. The mission that Trump plugged into, but stupidly abandoned because… well Republicans, is the message that the working class is getting screwed by “wall street” or whatever you want to call the oligarchical class. It works. But because most career politicians work for these guys, they change the antagonist to “liberals” or “illegals” or whatever, and that works too, for some, and for a while. A massive mobilization of the working class across racial lines is the only way to secure a future free of fascism without open conflict.

I’ll just keep smoking my pipe I guess.

by aualum06 2022-11-08, 11:34

There's going to be a lot of social media meltdown if Gretchen wins

by **duffy munn** 2022-11-08, 12:00

aualum06 wrote:There's going to be a lot of social media meltdown if Gretchen wins

I have honestly not been following the news, polling and such. do you think she wins?

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2022-11-08, 12:04

duffy munn wrote:
aualum06 wrote:There's going to be a lot of social media meltdown if Gretchen wins

I have honestly not been following the news, polling and such. do you think she wins?

I suspect Big Gretch wins.. so does Benson. I think the Nessel race will be closer because she's the only of the three running against a white male.

by the way, all GOP candidates are election deniers. 2022 Midterm & Michigan Elections - Who Ya Got Winning? - Page 24 502811600

I suspect all proposals will pass, including prop 3. Despite evidence to the contrary, I do believe there are more decent people in Michigan than there are racist, bigoted misogynists.

overall, I think Michigan will be in good shape. Not as confident on the national level. The hold the lies/misinformation the mainstream media has on it's gullible viewers is pretty strong.

by aualum06 2022-11-08, 12:04

duffy munn wrote:
aualum06 wrote:There's going to be a lot of social media meltdown if Gretchen wins

I have honestly not been following the news, polling and such. do you think she wins?

I would be pretty surprised if she didn't

by PennSpartan 2022-11-08, 12:33

This is going to be a mess:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3724626-fetterman-sues-over-mail-in-ballots/amp/

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