Stanley being forced out

Not living in Michigan, I wasn’t aware of this. Fill me in, please.

Sources: MSU board gives school president until Tuesday to agree to step down

https://www.freep.com/story/news/education/2022/09/11/msu-board-president-stanley-resignation/69485016007/

Imma move this to the other board as I don’t think it’s particularly political.

According to his contract, if MSU fires him for cause, they do not owe him any additional money. However, if he resigns he is eligible for one additional year of salary. He signed a new contract in 2021 that raised his yearly salary to $960,000.

Principle or profit. He's on the clock.

No idea if this is warranted or not, but the BoTs have been looking for an excuse going back to the search for the AD. Some were left with bruised feelings despite getting who they wanted.

tGreenWay wrote:No idea if this is warranted or not, but the BoTs have been looking for an excuse going back to the search for the AD. Some were left with bruised feelings despite getting who they wanted.

And we remain as dysfunctional as ever.

It’s probably about a majority of the BOT being butt hurt about his handling of the Gupta situation and hearing from donors to Broad School of Business.

Stanley may not be perfect but he was hired to clean up after the disastrous end of LAKS tenure where she landed the cyclotron but had a sexual voyeur as Dean of the School of Osteopathic Medicine and a sexual deviant on staff as an athletic trainer.

They let LAKS go on her merry way not wanting to upset the apple cart as the BOT, the AD and other admin at the medical school also turned blind eyes to what was happening for decades.

[tw]1569074228326199297[/tw]

Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1569074228326199297[/tw]

Interesting. Seems like the BoT is always a clusterF@&$ at MSU.

Some bizarre things going on behind closed doors, it seems - with the BoT. The faculty senate chair released a statement and she seemed frustrated with the lack of transparency, not to mention the suddenness of the BoT request for his resignation.

Strange.

I hadn't heard anything about this either.

It all seems shady.

Dendrobates wrote:I hadn't heard anything about this either.

It all seems shady.

seems commensurate with a political dick measuring contest behind closed doors with the BoT. I wouldn't be shocked to find out something was leaked and there was a "put up or shut up" moment.

I have a good friend who is a high level administrator, but I'm not about to bother her with a 'what the fuck is going on' text. She has plenty of other stuff to worry about.

Will be interesting to see how things transpire. A couple of these BoT folks might be eating crow by Tuesday? We shall see.

[tw]1569116365092691968?t=S8-_78OGTRUmGFvPlBsE2w&s=19[/tw]

PennSpartan wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1569074228326199297[/tw]

Interesting. Seems like the BoT is always a clusterF@&$ at MSU.

Can’t seem to stop themselves from sticking their noses into everything. While there was a period of a few years where it seemed as if the Board knew to stop micromanaging, in my lifetime the BoTs have done enough to keep a dark cloud hanging over our school more often than not, and it’s come from both sides of the political aisle.

Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1569074228326199297[/tw]

From what I understand, the only thing Gupta did wrong was not regurgitate the reports from a couple of his subordinates which were also submitted through the proper channels (Gupta's report would just be redundant. And I'm not even sure that Gupta was wrong, as there seems to be some thought that he wasn't required to in this case.

But if Stanley was overzealous about that, it still doesn't seem like much of a firing offense for Stanley. And if Gupta was unjustly fired, the 3rd party investigation should clear that up and get him his job back, no?

duffy munn wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:No idea if this is warranted or not, but the BoTs have been looking for an excuse going back to the search for the AD. Some were left with bruised feelings despite getting who they wanted.

And we remain as dysfunctional as ever.

Very disappointed in this. It’s embarrassing frankly.

It's looking more and more like petty politics on behalf of the board.

Chairperson Diane Byrum says Stanley has her full support and that the board (or at least those trying to oust him) are basically acting like children and in a way that does not reflect campus leaders.

I suspect it's less related to Gupta and more related to the aggressiveness by which he implemented COVID measurements, masking, etc.

Ya gotta remember, a certain party is trying to overtake public education and the government so they can implement their special brand of the dark ages and the only way they can do that is to create chaos with lies and misinformation.

If Bob is right I'm guessing they found out that MSU has studies on Critical Race Theory in its Law School.

Here’s the LSJ link to BOT Chair Byram calling out the leaders of the coup.

Of course the veil of No Comment is now in use because the BOT coup leader(s) who had gun powder for breakfast before shooting their mouth(s) off to the Freep reporters about their power play are now silent.  

None of the assholes want to own up to their bright idea and reasons for it once their grand plan saw the light of day.

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2022/09/12/dianne-byrum-condemns-effort-remove-michigan-state-university-president-samuel-stanley-jr/69487626007/

It should be MSU BoT 101 to be taught that you don't talk to the Detroit Media.

DWags wrote:

duffy munn wrote: And we remain as dysfunctional as ever.

Very disappointed in this. It’s embarrassing frankly.

The one time I finally thought we had it right with LAKS and Hollis turned out bad too.

Things must be heating up.

Trevor (and/or his minion mods) nuked the Stanley thread.

GRR Spartan wrote:Things must be heating up.

Trevor (and/or his minion mods) nuked the Stanley thread.

It's still there, just moving down the page.

100% political, as I suggested on Sunday when the story broke. It's basically an attempt at an academic coup.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:100% political, as I suggested on Sunday when the story broke. It's basically an attempt at an academic coup.

It's kind of ironic that his reported political differences with Gupta are why he was looking for an excuse to fire him, and now the Board are doing the same thing to him.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:100% political, as I suggested on Sunday when the story broke. It's basically an attempt at an academic coup.

It's kind of ironic that his reported political differences with Gupta are why he was looking for an excuse to fire him, and now the Board are doing the same thing to him.

yeah.. just ridiculous.

Vassar and O’Keefe are the bomb throwers.  Both elected in 2020.  Had Mossalam pulled in 60,000 more votes (0.5% of votes he would still be on the BOT.

Vassar is Joel Ferguson redux but with a UCLA undergrad and Wayne State PhD.  She’s got her agenda(s) and the hell with anyone who gets in her way.

O’Keefe has an MSU accounting degree and an MBA from Wayne State.  Looks like he’s a friend of Gupta .

We are stuck with both of these power hungry rookies until January 2029.

Is there an explanation for BoT dysfunction and confusion at MSU? Different players same results year after year. Sort of like the Lions.

President, Trustees in Standoff at Michigan State
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/09/15/president-trustees-standoff-michigan-state

Turtleneck wrote:Is there an explanation for BoT dysfunction and confusion at MSU? Different players same results year after year. Sort of like the Lions.

President, Trustees in Standoff at Michigan State
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/09/15/president-trustees-standoff-michigan-state

Reading this it appears that the BoT probably didn't follow the requirements in signing the Title IX compliance letter that the State requires from the MSU President & Bot (Does the State require this for other public Universities?) and the President was informed.  He then started a remedial action to strengthen the process, which the BoT is pissed off about, and now they are attacking him with whatever they can.  

The Dean of Broad was reportedly seen witnessing a Title IX violation but did not report it, justifying his demotion (I assume he is still on the faculty), and the BoT has grabbed this, along with the some of the faculty, to attack the President.  (Having some insight into university politics, in general, these tensions are typical of all Universities)

Needed results -

1 - Stronger processes to insure the BoT follows the law.
2 - More training for faculty on Title IX reporting.

Likely results - a shit show fanned by the press.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:Is there an explanation for BoT dysfunction and confusion at MSU? Different players same results year after year. Sort of like the Lions.

President, Trustees in Standoff at Michigan State
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/09/15/president-trustees-standoff-michigan-state

Reading this it appears that the BoT probably didn't follow the requirements in signing the Title IX compliance letter that the State requires from the MSU President & Bot (Does the State require this for other public Universities?) and the President was informed.  He then started a remedial action to strengthen the process, which the BoT is pissed off about, and now they are attacking him with whatever they can.  

The Dean of Broad was seem witnessing a Title IX violation but did not report it, justifying his demotion (I assume he is still on the faculty), and the BoT has grabbed this, along with the some of the faculty, to attack the President.  (Having some insight into university politics, in general, these tensions are typical of all Universities)

Needed results -

1 - Stronger processes to insure the BoT follows the law.
2 - More training for faculty on Title IX reporting.

Likely results - a shit show fanned by the press.

The bolded part is wrong, though, from what Ive heard from people in the know.  And I'm not criticizing you for posting that, as the article says that (and references another article).  But just clarifying that Gupta was not present at this party and so he didn't witness anything.  Others that work under Gupta witnessed it and reported it to Gupta, as well as through the proper channels outside of the Broad school. Gupta didn't report it, because he had nothing to add to their reports, it would just be saying the same thing they said.  The incident was pretty minor, with no complaints filed, so I'm not sure that Gupta was necessarily required to file his own report regurgitating what he was told.  If he was required to, it is still just a bureaucratic technicality that he violated.  Doesn't seem worthy to demote or fire a Dean of one of your top colleges.  So yes, Stanley was wrong in how he handled that, and the investigation would probably rectify that.  By the same token, no, that shouldn't be cause for firing Stanley either.

Stanley had political differences with Gupta and may have been looking for any reason to demote or fire him.  Some members of the BoT have political differences with Stanley and may be looking for any reason to fire him.  Both unjustified, and seemingly based more on political differences than actions.  It's a sad commentary on where we are as a country.

What a mess.

Okay. - the rest is speculation, but just to think about

However, the President didn't take the action, the Provost did, as it is her decision.  She may have her own political reasons, or it might be alleged that she and the President are in a conspiracy, however, if there is blame, she is the person to blame.  One should assume there are robust processes for an action of this type, so if there are not then yes, the President and the BoT are at fault.  The only role the President might have is to review her decision before it is executed, though that is speculation on my part.

Comment - The reporting on the what of the why follows from the provost's statement, however the full details are not included, the faculties' complaint about lack of transparency being germane here, though that this one person's HR records that transparency demand is questionable, so it cannot say this was the only case of non-reporting, and without knowing the requirements of reporting for a Dean regarding the staff of a college his witnessing may or may not matter.

Further Comment - Everyone is going to have an opinion, and the robustness of the process should be there to sort this out.  (If it is not then the President and the  BoT are totally at fault) This should have nothing to do with a political difference between the former Dean and the President, and which may be, for all we know, the former Dean's supporters shooting back about his removal.

Final comment - Gupta and his allies may be more at fault for this mess than the Provost, at least from what we know.

Beyond final comment - The Press, in print, try to get it right.  If the reporters are following press ethics, then they do have sources who said to them what they reported, including Gupta's being at this party and witnessing this one incident.  That does not mean that those sources were correct, but now we are into how to find out what happened and what people saw.

What's the latest on this dumbfuckery? Is he in, or out?

Jake from State Farm wrote:What's the latest on this dumbfuckery? Is he in, or out?

Here's how I'm reading it: You ever see one of those fights on youtube at a burgerking, where everyone is screaming at each other over a whopper, and nobody is listening to each other and the employees and customers are mad as hell but not making any sense whatsoever? So inevitably it goes to blow and everyone looks like an ass and when they're done both sides are convinced it was the other side that made them do this shit? Yeah, that's the BOT at MSU, and a bunch of people have their cell phones out recording it and putting it on the internet.

Go Green

Jake from State Farm wrote:What's the latest on this dumbfuckery? Is he in, or out?

Even in this UofM does it better, they just have the President being sexually involved with his personal assistant.

Though MSU has moved from be accused of being too lax to being accused of being too strict.

Is Stanley flat yet?

Trapper Gus wrote:Okay. - the rest is speculation, but just to think about

However, the President didn't take the action, the Provost did, as it is her decision.  She may have her own political reasons, or it might be alleged that she and the President are in a conspiracy, however, if there is blame, she is the person to blame.  One should assume there are robust processes for an action of this type, so if there are not then yes, the President and the BoT are at fault.  The only role the President might have is to review her decision before it is executed, though that is speculation on my part.

Comment - The reporting on the what of the why follows from the provost's statement, however the full details are not included, the faculties' complaint about lack of transparency being germane here, though that this one person's HR records that transparency demand is questionable, so it cannot say this was the only case of non-reporting, and without knowing the requirements of reporting for a Dean regarding the staff of a college his witnessing may or may not matter.

Further Comment - Everyone is going to have an opinion, and the robustness of the process should be there to sort this out.  (If it is not then the President and the  BoT are totally at fault) This should have nothing to do with a political difference between the former Dean and the President, and which may be, for all we know, the former Dean's supporters shooting back about his removal.

Final comment - Gupta and his allies may be more at fault for this mess than the Provost, at least from what we know.

Beyond final comment - The Press, in print, try to get it right.  If the reporters are following press ethics, then they do have sources who said to them what they reported, including Gupta's being at this party and witnessing this one incident.  That does not mean that those sources were correct, but now we are into how to find out what happened and what people saw.

A law firm is currently investigating it as an independent third party.

I would think that it's all stuff that could be verified pretty easily one way or another, so those details will all shake out.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:Okay.  - the rest is speculation, but just to think about

However, the President didn't take the action, the Provost did, as it is her decision.  She may have her own political reasons, or it might be alleged that she and the President are in a conspiracy, however, if there is blame, she is the person to blame.  One should assume there are robust processes for an action of this type, so if there are not then yes, the President and the BoT are at fault.  The only role the President might have is to review her decision before it is executed, though that is speculation on my part.

Comment - The reporting on the what of the why follows from the provost's statement, however the full details are not included, the faculties' complaint about lack of transparency being germane here, though that this one person's HR records that transparency demand is questionable, so it cannot say this was the only case of non-reporting, and without knowing the requirements of reporting for a Dean regarding the staff of a college his witnessing may or may not matter.

Further Comment - Everyone is going to have an opinion, and the robustness of the process should be there to sort this out.  (If it is not then the President and the  BoT are totally at fault) This should have nothing to do with a political difference between the former Dean and the President, and which may be, for all we know, the former Dean's supporters shooting back about his removal.

Final comment - Gupta and his allies may be more at fault for this mess than the Provost, at least from what we know.

Beyond final comment - The Press, in print, try to get it right.  If the reporters are following press ethics, then they do have sources who said to them what they reported, including Gupta's being at this party and witnessing this one incident.  That does not mean that those sources were correct, but now we are into how to find out what happened and what people saw.

A law firm is currently investigating it as an independent third party.

I would think that it's all stuff that could be verified pretty easily one way or another, so those details will all shake out.

At this point, other than law enforcement with the power of "lying under oath" being a crime this is the best we are likely to get.

On Wednesday, Crain’s Detroit Business reported (paywall) that, according to MSU documents, Gupta’s forced departure was related to an incident in which a business school faculty leader got drunk at a party for MBA students and inappropriately danced and touched some students. The report said Gupta was told of the misconduct and failed to report it to university leaders as required.

https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/confused-about-michigan-state-president-controversy-read

There is also this - “

I faithfully complied with this Michigan certification process the last two years and reviewed all the Title IX reports that were required,” Stanley said Tuesday. “Contrary to information previously provided to me, in June of this year, just June 2022, I was notified that some of our board members may not have actually complied with their part of the state requirement in 2021.”

If what he says is correct, then the BoT are fighting for their creditability and they may be facing legal consequences, having nothing to do with Gupta.

Trapper Gus wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
A law firm is currently investigating it as an independent third party.

I would think that it's all stuff that could be verified pretty easily one way or another, so those details will all shake out.

At this point, other than law enforcement with the power of "lying under oath" being a crime this is the best we are likely to get.

I did read one report saying that Gupta was knowledgeable of the incident, which suggests he wasn't a witness of it.

https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/confused-about-michigan-state-president-controversy-read

It hardly requires an oath under penalty of perjury. It's a party. It isn't relying on one witness. If Gupta was there, many people saw him. Are dozens of people going to lie one way or another? I have trouble believing that that many will be so hard core partisan about this to do that. And that's all assuming that he was alone and off the grid the whole time.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

At this point, other than law enforcement with the power of "lying under oath" being a crime this is the best we are likely to get.

I did read one report saying that Gupta was knowledgeable of the incident, which suggests he wasn't a witness of it.

https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/confused-about-michigan-state-president-controversy-read

It hardly requires an oath under penalty of perjury.  It's a party.  It isn't relying on one witness.  If Gupta was there, many people saw him.  Are dozens of people going to lie one way or another?  I have trouble believing that that many will be so hard core partisan about this to do that.  And that's all assuming that he was alone and off the grid the whole time.

Sorry but I often edit these to clarify, I added the quote about Crain's to what you quoted.

The Crain's Business report, as quoted by Michigan Bridge, sounds like he was informed of it, but didn't report it.  Without knowing the policy, ourselves this seems like weak sauce, but if there is a zero-tolerance policy in place for Title IX, and there may be based on MSU's past history, maybe it is enough.

As to being under oath, when people say things, they seldom recant them, there is their ego involved.

man, that noise from a whiny minority sure got quiet in a hurry, didn't it?

Just read a couple of days ago that Stanley resubmitted the 2021 compliance and also the 2022 compliance,  after an internal review which was to ensure that the BoT members knew what their roles & responsibilities were regarding their review of Title IX case files.

Also read that the independent Law Firm, which was brought in, by the BoT I think, didn't say much about compliance for 2021 & 2022, but found a number of places in which the process could be brought up to more robust processes, aka "Best Practice", mostly about communication with the BoT members regarding the documentation of the cases and what the BoT members roles are in the review process.  No word on how many would be followed.

Gupta's demotion also seems to be in some sort of review process?