Re: tOfficial Star Wars The Force Awakens Thread (This Thread Contains SPOILERS. You have been warned.)

[MiamiSpartan]

It's kind of funny when people are pissed about it being too much like Episode IV. The prequels didn't follow the same formula and people hated them. Now this did follow that formula and some people (a small minority, thank God) are still pissed. "We want the same....but different. But not different like before....a different kind of different." To put it in Star War terms, they're basically like Han saying, "Keep your distance Chewy, but don't look like you're trying to keep your distance...I don't know, fly casual."

As for OTPT's complaints, if you're looking for a deep plot, great dialogue, and great acting across the board, the Star Wars franchise, starting with Episode IV, has never been the place to turn. If you want a cool action flick, where you set your brain in a jar for a couple of hours and enjoy the battles and visuals, then Star Wars is pretty damn good for that, especially the originals and now Episode VII.

[steveschneider]

It's kind of funny when people are pissed about it being too much like Episode IV. The prequels didn't follow the same formula and people hated them. Now this did follow that formula and some people (a small minority, thank God) are still pissed. "We want the same....but different. But not different like before....a different kind of different." To put it in Star War terms, they're basically like Han saying, "Keep your distance Chewy, but don't look like you're trying to keep your distance...I don't know, fly casual."

As for OTPT's complaints, if you're looking for a deep plot, great dialogue, and great acting across the board, the Star Wars franchise, starting with Episode IV, has never been the place to turn. If you want a cool action flick, where you set your brain in a jar for a couple of hours and enjoy the battles and visuals, then Star Wars is pretty damn good for that, especially the originals and now Episode VII.

Maybe the plots are weak, but the characters are very strong. Great characters and great conflict and enough mystery to keep me wanting more. Also, I'll defend the acting in Star Wars. I think it's one of those things that people love to attack, I think the style of the dialogue is more to blame than the acting. Obi Wann was played by Sir Alec Guinness, a straight across the board legendary actor. The first series had ton brits trained in the theater. I think it's just the stilted dialogue that makes them come off bad.

I thought this film reprised enough of the old stuff, but still had plenty of new stuff to make me happy. The story of Finn was such a great move imo. A storm trooper defecting, and that moment the blood was on his head was powerful even with his mask on I could tell what was happening.

[steveschneider]

BTW, how long is it supposed to take for episode 8? Hoping this isn't one of those long ass waits the Lucas put us through in the 70's and 80's.

[InTenSity]

BTW, how long is it supposed to take for episode 8? Hoping this isn't one of those long ass waits the Lucas put us through in the 70's and 80's.

Probably 2 years. Disney wants to put out a new Star Wars movie every year for about the next 15 years. I'll take it back if they haven't started filming for 2 yet, but I'd say no longer than 3 years.

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

BTW, how long is it supposed to take for episode 8? Hoping this isn't one of those long ass waits the Lucas put us through in the 70's and 80's.

Probably 2 years. Disney wants to put out a new Star Wars movie every year for about the next 15 years. I'll take it back if they haven't started filming for 2 yet, but I'd say no longer than 3 years.

Going to push them out like Hunger games?

[MiamiSpartan]

BTW, how long is it supposed to take for episode 8? Hoping this isn't one of those long ass waits the Lucas put us through in the 70's and 80's.

May 2017.  I don't recall the exact date off the top of my head, but they announced it several months ago, because it will be released on the 40th anniversary (to the day) of the original.  I believe filming is already under way.

Wasn't the wait between Empire and Jedi due at least in part because of the car accident that Mark Hamil was in, that required some facial reconstruction?  I don't know, back then we didn't have the internets to fact check, we just took what was said on the playground at face value.  Though it may also have had to do with Ford's schedule, as he would have been doing Raiders of the Lost Ark between those two.

[MiamiSpartan]

Probably 2 years. Disney wants to put out a new Star Wars movie every year for about the next 15 years. I'll take it back if they haven't started filming for 2 yet, but I'd say no longer than 3 years.

Going to push them out like Hunger games?

There will be 3 in this series (including The Force Awakens), but they're going to be doing stand alone movies from the Star Wars universe, that will be back story on characters that we already know, starting with Han Solo. Though they're in the middle of casting for that, so it probably won't be out before Episode VIII. There's been speculation that there will be a Yoda movie, as well.

[MiamiSpartan]

It's kind of funny when people are pissed about it being too much like Episode IV. The prequels didn't follow the same formula and people hated them. Now this did follow that formula and some people (a small minority, thank God) are still pissed. "We want the same....but different. But not different like before....a different kind of different." To put it in Star War terms, they're basically like Han saying, "Keep your distance Chewy, but don't look like you're trying to keep your distance...I don't know, fly casual."

As for OTPT's complaints, if you're looking for a deep plot, great dialogue, and great acting across the board, the Star Wars franchise, starting with Episode IV, has never been the place to turn. If you want a cool action flick, where you set your brain in a jar for a couple of hours and enjoy the battles and visuals, then Star Wars is pretty damn good for that, especially the originals and now Episode VII.

Maybe the plots are weak, but the characters are very strong. Great characters and great conflict and enough mystery to keep me wanting more. Also, I'll defend the acting in Star Wars. I think it's one of those things that people love to attack, I think the style of the dialogue is more to blame than the acting. Obi Wann was played by Sir Alec Guinness, a straight across the board legendary actor. The first series had ton brits trained in the theater. I think it's just the stilted dialogue that makes them come off bad.

I thought this film reprised enough of the old stuff, but still had plenty of new stuff to make me happy. The story of Finn was such a great move imo. A storm trooper defecting, and that moment the blood was on his head was powerful even with his mask on I could tell what was happening.

I didn't mean that the plots were necessarily weak, just that they aren't deep, complex plots. The original was nominated for Best Picture, but I think that was largely due to the originality of the story and the advances in special effects. I also didn't mean to say that all of the acting was bad. Mark Hamil was not really any better than the dork that played Anakin. Carrie Fisher wasn't very good either. There's a reason neither had much of an acting career beyond those. Of course, Alec Guinness was already a great actor, and Harrison Ford turned out to be great. Even looking back at them now, you can see how Ford was just head and shoulders above Hamil and Fisher. I don't mean that to detract from the movies AT ALL. As you said, the characters were great, and they embody those characters. But I'm hardly an expert on acting, so I may be completely full of shit.

In the prequels, the Anakin adult was awful (the kid wasn't great, but he was an 8 year old kid, so I don't expect much). But I thought Ewan MacGregor did a good job, as did Liam Neeson and Ian MacDiarmid (sp?). Natalie Portman was decent, as well, but she got stuck with so much sappy dialogue between her and Anakin that it hurt her overall. She was better in Episode I, despite being just a kid herself, without having to do the forced love relationship. Overall, the previous six films were a mixed bag on acting. Episode VII probably has the best acting of all of them. The main characters of Finn and Rey were both very good. Some say that Kylo/Ben wasn't good, but I think that's how he was supposed to be. With the mask on, he seemed better, IMO.

[steveschneider]

BTW, how long is it supposed to take for episode 8? Hoping this isn't one of those long ass waits the Lucas put us through in the 70's and 80's.

May 2017. I don't recall the exact date off the top of my head, but they announced it several months ago, because it will be released on the 40th anniversary (to the day) of the original. I believe filming is already under way.

Wasn't the wait between Empire and Jedi due at least in part because of the car accident that Mark Hamil was in, that required some facial reconstruction? I don't know, back then we didn't have the internets to fact check, we just took what was said on the playground as face value. Though it may also have had to do with Ford's schedule, as he would have been doing Raiders of the Lost Ark between those two.

I have no idea, I just remember they took forever and as a kid it was brutal. I recall one summer seeing a photo from the set of Return of the Jedi in People Magazine at my aunts house and it got me really fired up. At that point it was still called Revenge of the Jedi. Even after that it seemed like it took forever for the film to be completed.

[Cym Jim]

The story of Finn was such a great move imo. A storm trooper defecting, and that moment the blood was on his head was powerful even with his mask on I could tell what was happening.

Subtle, wasn't it.

I dunno, I know stormtroopers have always been portrayed as kinda dumb, but I found revealing supposedly one of their more thoughtful members as a boring spaz with no personality, kinda shattered their mystique a little.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Hamill's accident was between the original and Empire. That's why they added the Wampa scene.

Star Wars 77
Empire 80
Jedi 83

Phantom 99
Clones 02
Sith 05

Ep seven 15
Ep eight 17
Ep nine 19

Rogue One 16
Han Solo 18
Boba Fett 20

[MiamiSpartan]

Hamill's accident was between the original and Empire. That's why they added the Wampa scene.

Star Wars 77
Empire 80
Jedi 83

Phantom 99
Clones 02
Sith 05

Ep seven 15
Ep eight 17
Ep nine 19

Rogue One 16
Han Solo 18
Boba Fett 20

I didn't realize the first standalone movie was coming out next year. I guess I've heard so many more references about Han Solo's standalone movie that I assumed it was the first one.

[steveschneider]

http://nypost.com/2015/12/18/george-lucas-brilliant-ex-wife-was-secret-weapon-in-original-star-wars/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

Interesting read and a good explanation as to why the prequels sucked so bad.

[Heat Miser]

Just saw it & what a disappointment. Visually it was fine, but the plot was mostly repackaged parts of episodes 4 - 6:

1. We need another "Death Star"...but bigger. Like planet sized! With an even bigger "gun". Don't worry about the financing.
2. Darth [fill in the blank]? Check. Be sure to change the mask & suit a bit & modify his light sabre. Don't forget to give him a master...but bigger.
3. Need a new bar scene. Everybody loved that one the first time around.
4. Must blow up new "Death Star" via "secret" weakness. No Ewoks though.
5. Send our new hero off to see Yod...I mean Luke to complete her training in the next movie. Surprised they didn't hide Luke in the Degoba system.
6. Bring back the "IT'S A TRAP" dude. Everybody loves him.
7. Reverse the father & son conflict! Genius!
8. Billy Dee Williams not available? Replace with an old lady with big glasses.
9. Hide a critical message in a droid. Change the droid & make it a map instead. Done & done.

Totally unimaginative story.

[steveschneider]

Just saw it & what a disappointment. Visually it was fine, but the plot was mostly repackaged parts of episodes 4 - 6:

1. We need another "Death Star"...but bigger. Like planet sized! With an even bigger "gun". Don't worry about the financing.
2. Darth [fill in the blank]? Check. Be sure to change the mask & suit a bit & modify his light sabre. Don't forget to give him a master...but bigger.
3. Need a new bar scene. Everybody loved that one the first time around.
4. Must blow up new "Death Star" via "secret" weakness. No Ewoks though.
5. Send our new hero off to see Yod...I mean Luke to complete her training in the next movie. Surprised they didn't hide Luke in the Degoba system.
6. Bring back the "IT'S A TRAP" dude. Everybody loves him.
7. Reverse the father & son conflict! Genius!
8. Billy Dee Williams not available? Replace with an old lady with big glasses.
9. Hide a critical message in a droid. Change the droid & make it a map instead. Done & done.

Totally unimaginative story.

I thought the part when Rey grabbed the light saber was a reprisal of the cave of evil from empire strikes back.

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

Just saw it & what a disappointment. Visually it was fine, but the plot was mostly repackaged parts of episodes 4 - 6:

1. We need another "Death Star"...but bigger. Like planet sized! With an even bigger "gun". Don't worry about the financing.
2. Darth [fill in the blank]? Check. Be sure to change the mask & suit a bit & modify his light sabre. Don't forget to give him a master...but bigger.
3. Need a new bar scene. Everybody loved that one the first time around.
4. Must blow up new "Death Star" via "secret" weakness. No Ewoks though.
5. Send our new hero off to see Yod...I mean Luke to complete her training in the next movie. Surprised they didn't hide Luke in the Degoba system.
6. Bring back the "IT'S A TRAP" dude. Everybody loves him.
7. Reverse the father & son conflict! Genius!
8. Billy Dee Williams not available? Replace with an old lady with big glasses.
9. Hide a critical message in a droid. Change the droid & make it a map instead. Done & done.

Totally unimaginative story.

Prepare your anus for the nerdz

[The_Dude]

Just saw it & what a disappointment. Visually it was fine, but the plot was mostly repackaged parts of episodes 4 - 6:

1. We need another "Death Star"...but bigger. Like planet sized! With an even bigger "gun". Don't worry about the financing.
2. Darth [fill in the blank]? Check. Be sure to change the mask & suit a bit & modify his light sabre. Don't forget to give him a master...but bigger.
3. Need a new bar scene. Everybody loved that one the first time around.
4. Must blow up new "Death Star" via "secret" weakness. No Ewoks though.
5. Send our new hero off to see Yod...I mean Luke to complete her training in the next movie. Surprised they didn't hide Luke in the Degoba system.
6. Bring back the "IT'S A TRAP" dude. Everybody loves him.
7. Reverse the father & son conflict! Genius!
8. Billy Dee Williams not available? Replace with an old lady with big glasses.
9. Hide a critical message in a droid. Change the droid & make it a map instead. Done & done.

Totally unimaginative story.

Totally agree. Lots of nostalgic scenes.. Han and his son...bar scene...Poe running the gauntlet..new Death Star just bigger

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

Didn't think anyone could nail it better than I did but Heat goes and drops that bomb.

Sunshine optimists.

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

Bl0wers. Nevermimd, fuck Heat too!

[DWags]

Just saw it & what a disappointment. Visually it was fine, but the plot was mostly repackaged parts of episodes 4 - 6:

1. We need another "Death Star"...but bigger. Like planet sized! With an even bigger "gun". Don't worry about the financing.
2. Darth [fill in the blank]? Check. Be sure to change the mask & suit a bit & modify his light sabre. Don't forget to give him a master...but bigger.
3. Need a new bar scene. Everybody loved that one the first time around.
4. Must blow up new "Death Star" via "secret" weakness. No Ewoks though.
5. Send our new hero off to see Yod...I mean Luke to complete her training in the next movie. Surprised they didn't hide Luke in the Degoba system.
6. Bring back the "IT'S A TRAP" dude. Everybody loves him.
7. Reverse the father & son conflict! Genius!
8. Billy Dee Williams not available? Replace with an old lady with big glasses.
9. Hide a critical message in a droid. Change the droid & make it a map instead. Done & done.

Totally unimaginative story.

Well, I'm not going. Sounds like the hateful 8 for me.

[AnomanderRake]

Just saw it & what a disappointment. Visually it was fine, but the plot was mostly repackaged parts of episodes 4 - 6:

1. We need another "Death Star"...but bigger. Like planet sized! With an even bigger "gun". Don't worry about the financing.
2. Darth [fill in the blank]? Check. Be sure to change the mask & suit a bit & modify his light sabre. Don't forget to give him a master...but bigger.
3. Need a new bar scene. Everybody loved that one the first time around.
4. Must blow up new "Death Star" via "secret" weakness. No Ewoks though.
5. Send our new hero off to see Yod...I mean Luke to complete her training in the next movie. Surprised they didn't hide Luke in the Degoba system.
6. Bring back the "IT'S A TRAP" dude. Everybody loves him.
7. Reverse the father & son conflict! Genius!
8. Billy Dee Williams not available? Replace with an old lady with big glasses.
9. Hide a critical message in a droid. Change the droid & make it a map instead. Done & done.

Totally unimaginative story.

The Plot was extremely lazy but I still enjoyed the movie. I thought they could have done completely without the Starkiller base deal aka the new death star.

[InTenSity]

Just saw it & what a disappointment. Visually it was fine, but the plot was mostly repackaged parts of episodes 4 - 6:

1. We need another "Death Star"...but bigger. Like planet sized! With an even bigger "gun". Don't worry about the financing.
2. Darth [fill in the blank]? Check. Be sure to change the mask & suit a bit & modify his light sabre. Don't forget to give him a master...but bigger.
3. Need a new bar scene. Everybody loved that one the first time around.
4. Must blow up new "Death Star" via "secret" weakness. No Ewoks though.
5. Send our new hero off to see Yod...I mean Luke to complete her training in the next movie. Surprised they didn't hide Luke in the Degoba system.
6. Bring back the "IT'S A TRAP" dude. Everybody loves him.
7. Reverse the father & son conflict! Genius!
8. Billy Dee Williams not available? Replace with an old lady with big glasses.
9. Hide a critical message in a droid. Change the droid & make it a map instead. Done & done.

Totally unimaginative story.

The Plot was extremely lazy but I still enjoyed the movie. I thought they could have done completely without the Starkiller base deal aka the new death star.

Hopefully that is the last time there is a 'Starkiller', also, apparently in the EU, there was a character named that, so could have been in homage to it.
I view this episode as a reboot. Play it safe, get people excited for the movies again. The next 2 movies are what will make or break it. They'll have to move away from the recipe that the Originals used. There can't be redemption for Kylo Ren, there has to be more with the Knights of...I forget what they were called. There is a lot of potential, but if the following 2 movies basically follow the OT it will do more harm than good.

[Watch Out Pylon!]

Hopefully they kill off Leia before the next movie. Her scenes really sucked and her face was botoxed to near paralysis.

[Turtleneck]

Just saw it & what a disappointment. Visually it was fine, but the plot was mostly repackaged parts of episodes 4 - 6:

1. We need another "Death Star"...but bigger. Like planet sized! With an even bigger "gun". Don't worry about the financing.
2. Darth [fill in the blank]? Check. Be sure to change the mask & suit a bit & modify his light sabre. Don't forget to give him a master...but bigger.
3. Need a new bar scene. Everybody loved that one the first time around.
4. Must blow up new "Death Star" via "secret" weakness. No Ewoks though.
5. Send our new hero off to see Yod...I mean Luke to complete her training in the next movie. Surprised they didn't hide Luke in the Degoba system.
6. Bring back the "IT'S A TRAP" dude. Everybody loves him.
7. Reverse the father & son conflict! Genius!
8. Billy Dee Williams not available? Replace with an old lady with big glasses.
9. Hide a critical message in a droid. Change the droid & make it a map instead. Done & done.

Totally unimaginative story.

I think that was kind of the point. I can see it would be annoying, but it did not bother me too much. This was clearing the table of the prequels and getting back to Star Wars.

[Rocinante]

I was not impressed. My friend said it best. "It's like how Obama got the Nobel peace prize just for not being George Bush."

[Turtleneck]

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

Whos worse the movie or Christians

Wait what

[Travis of the Cosmos]

Whos worse the movie or Christians

Wait what

You're like really aggressive about hating this movie. That's fine. But maybe chill out kid.

Also, you still haven't answered my rebuttal to your complaint.

[Turtleneck]

Whos worse the movie or Christians

Wait what

C) OTPT whining about Christians and the movie

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

Whos worse the movie or Christians

Wait what

You're like really aggressive about hating this movie. That's fine. But maybe chill out kid.

Also, you still haven't answered my rebuttal to your complaint.

Sorry. I'm chill. Seasns gwmfeemmmm

[CORNER BLITZ]

"I'd really love to see a movie about financing"

-weirdos

[Rocinante]

The firing of that gun would have knocked that planet out of orbit #newtonsthirdlawbitches

Somebody needs to do a meme of leia reacting to things and just have her with the same face all the time... cuz... you know... plastic surgery/botox/whatever the fuck carrie fisher did to her mug.

[MiamiSpartan]

The firing of that gun would have knocked that planet out of orbit #newtonsthirdlawbitches

Meh, I think that sucking all the energy from an entire fucking sun into the planet's innards would have been a hell of a lot more problematic.

Of course, let's not confuse the laws of physics of our universe with the laws of physics in the Star Wars universe.

[Turtleneck]

The story of Finn was such a great move imo. A storm trooper defecting, and that moment the blood was on his head was powerful even with his mask on I could tell what was happening.

Subtle, wasn't it.

I dunno, I know stormtroopers have always been portrayed as kinda dumb, but I found revealing supposedly one of their more thoughtful members as a boring spaz with no personality, kinda shattered their mystique a little.

In the past, they were clones. The stormtroopers in The Force Awakens are not clones, and therefore have some individual agency. That is a pretty cool addition and something people cruised right by in their criticisms (if I am correct).

The firing of that gun would have knocked that planet out of orbit #newtonsthirdlawbitches

Meh, I think that sucking all the energy from an entire fucking sun into the planet's innards would have been a hell of a lot more problematic.  

Of course, let's not confuse the laws of physics of our universe with the laws of physics in the Star Wars universe.

Not really a response to you as much as others above, but since it is along the same lines....the Death Star reboot does not bother me in the slightest. It is about balance of power. For example, imagine if the US, following WWII, was the only country to develop the technology required for a strategic nuclear weapons arsenal. Out of fear, the rest of the world would not be in position to resist US demands to any great degree. However, the USSR developed the same technology, and during the Cold War the world saw a stalemate between its two greatest powers.

In the Star Wars universe that technology equates to being able to destroy another planet. Those opposed to the Republic - first the Empire and now the First Order - will always be pursuing that technology, which would render the Republic and resistance movement useless. They are not looking for a balance of power or a stalemate. They want a complete and absolute advantage. This is about pursuing weapons so great that the rest of the galaxy more-or-less has to surrender or face planet level extinction (and it is a credible threat since the technology was deployed). Not pursuing that sort of technology would have been a real problem for the plot.

[MiamiSpartan]

Subtle, wasn't it.

I dunno, I know stormtroopers have always been portrayed as kinda dumb, but I found revealing supposedly one of their more thoughtful members as a boring spaz with no personality, kinda shattered their mystique a little.

In the past, they were clones. The stormtroopers in The Force Awakens are not clones, and therefore have some individual agency. That is a pretty cool addition and something people cruised right by in their criticisms (if I am correct).

My nephew said that in Star Wars Rebels (an animated series on DisneyXD, which supposedly takes place a little bit after Episode III), that regular kids are trained to be stormtroopers. It would make sense if they stopped using clones after the Boba Fett's dad was killed. So are they really clones in Episodes 4-6?

On the other hand, I question what my nephew said (maybe they were training to be something else within the Empire), because Kylo tells Hux (I think after they failed to get BB8) that perhaps he should have used clones, and Hux says something about his troopers being better than clones. So I agree with you, that's an interesting development. Speaking of Hux he could be an interesting non-sith bad guy if they develop him, which it seems like they will. I feel like they want to do something with him that Episodes 5 and 6 couldn't do with Gran Moff Tarkin since he got killed off in the original (but grew into a popular baddie anyway).

[Turtleneck]

At the end of episode III, they are clones because it was the clones implanted with executing Order 66. I just assumed that the clones carried over into Episodes IV-VI. I don't remember any suggestion to the contrary in Episodes IV-VI, and the exchange you cited between Hux and Kylo Ren also led me to believe it had always been clones to that point.

I think there could be an interesting rivalry between Hux and Kylo Ren. Hux does not have much confidence in the Force, and is also likely to jockey for a leadership position ahead of Kylo Ren.

[steveschneider]

Hopefully they kill off Leia before the next movie. Her scenes really sucked and her face was botoxed to near paralysis.

Harrison Ford looks like he has looks like has hair plugs and work done on his face as well. Such is Hollywood.

[MiamiSpartan]

At the end of episode III, they are clones because it was the clones implanted with executing Order 66. I just assumed that the clones carried over into Episodes IV-VI. I don't remember any suggestion to the contrary in Episodes IV-VI, and the exchange you cited between Hux and Kylo Ren also led me to believe it had always been clones to that point.

Episodes 4-6 didn't mention anything one way or another about the stormtroopers, probably because they didn't delve into who they were at all. Also, possibly because Lucas didn't know/care, other than making them faceless soldiers/henchmen. I always felt he kind of backed into making them the clones referred to in The Clone Wars, but supposedly he had the whole stories laid out in his head, so who knows. But I do agree with you that the exchange between Kylo and Ren indicate that they were supposed to be clones in Eps 4-6. Besides, I won't take hearsay from an 8 year old about what was in a cartoon at face value.

[steveschneider]

What is up with the ability for all the ships to conveniently just jump to hyper space in the new film? All the ships were just skipping around the galaxy effortlessly.

In previous films it was something that took careful calculations

Han Solo: Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it.

[Watch Out Pylon!]

What is up with the ability for all the ships to conveniently just jump to hyper space in the new film? All the ships were just skipping around the galaxy effortlessly.

In previous films it was something that took careful calculations

Han Solo: Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it.

Interstellar cruise control?

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