Fuck it- statues

LooseGoose wrote:I repeat over and over to you that I don't watch any television news at all.    You insist on coming on here and calling me a liar repeatedly.  I don't appreciate it and think you're an ass to continue.   Tells me you're a petty little bitch that gets amused by irritating me.  Someday perhaps you'll have the balls to look me in the eye and call me a liar, when you do I'll at least have a bit of respect for you.

LooseGoose wrote:I repeat over and over to you that I don't watch any television news at all.    You insist on coming on here and calling me a liar repeatedly.  I don't appreciate it and think you're an ass to continue.   Tells me you're a petty little bitch that gets amused by irritating me.  Someday perhaps you'll have the balls to look me in the eye and call me a liar, when you do I'll at least have a bit of respect for you.

NigelUno wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:I repeat over and over to you that I don't watch any television news at all.    You insist on coming on here and calling me a liar repeatedly.  I don't appreciate it and think you're an ass to continue.   Tells me you're a petty little bitch that gets amused by irritating me.  Someday perhaps you'll have the balls to look me in the eye and call me a liar, when you do I'll at least have a bit of respect for you.

You get amused by calling a high school kid "Little Hitler".  Does that make you a petty little bitch?

In March, the City Commission voted 5-1 to relocate the Fountain of the Pioneers from its flagship park and develop a plan for putting something new in its place. It was a victory for activists who brought renewed vigor to an effort to recognize the controversial fountain's impact on indigenous people.

Though public debate has persisted since the monument was established, City Commissioners agreed that the figures of a Native American in headdress head-to-head with a westward-gazing pioneer do more harm than good.

The fountain was placed on the National Register of Historic Places in 2016. It will not be automatically removed from the register, but could be delisted by petition in the future.

LooseGoose wrote:Erasing history instead of teaching it, it's sort of like burning books you disagree with.   

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Erasing history instead of teaching it, it's sort of like burning books you disagree with.   

No, it really isn't.  Not even close.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:I can't wait to hear how Goose's screwed up brain equates lost NASCAR sponsorships to statues.

Dr. Strangelove wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-africa-46552614



Racist' Gandhi statue removed from University of Ghana

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Large swaths of history have been erased now that the statues are gone. No one remembers. The books have had their pages wiped. I’m not even sure which memories we were trying to hold on to. It’s all gone. So sad.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Large swaths of history have been erased now that the statues are gone. No one remembers. The books have had their pages wiped. I’m not even sure which memories we were trying to hold on to. It’s all gone. So sad.

I can't even remember who won the Civil War any more. SAD!

kingstonlake wrote:Probably not popular but I don’t think they should be removed. I visited some civil war history (statues) down south. I didn’t get a feeling of “white pride” or anything. It was just an overall feeling of being exposed to history  It was just different. Reminding us of a dark time isn’t glorifying it imho. It’s educating us on what was wrong and what shouldn’t be repeated. Funny thing was I saw many black people with their kids visiting. I’m guessing educating them on history. Hint early I think there’s a ton of faux outrage from whites on this. I would totally understand and respect people of color having issues with the statues though. I guess it’s all in the eyes of the beholder.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:Probably not popular but I don’t think they should be removed. I visited some civil war history (statues) down south. I didn’t get a feeling of “white pride” or anything. It was just an overall feeling of being exposed to history  It was just different. Reminding us of a dark time isn’t glorifying it imho. It’s educating us on what was wrong and what shouldn’t be repeated. Funny thing was I saw many black people with their kids visiting. I’m guessing educating them on history. Hint early I think there’s a ton of faux outrage from whites on this. I would totally understand and respect people of color having issues with the statues though. I guess it’s all in the eyes of the beholder.

Statues generally seem celebratory to me. We don't have statues of Hitler to teach about the Nazis.

Tear the statues of traitors down. They lost.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Statues generally seem celebratory to me. We don't have statues of Hitler to teach about the Nazis.

Tear the statues of traitors down. They lost.

If you view a statue or monument as a celebration then I can see your point. I just don’t view them as a celebration. To me it’s a recognition of our nations history. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

If you view a statue or monument as a celebration then I can see your point. I just don’t view them as a celebration. To me it’s a recognition of our nations history. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Like Travis said, we haven't built statues for all the enemies we've vanquished as a nation. Just confederates. We didn't build a statue of Benedict Arnold. We didn't build statues of a bunch of random generals that fought to keep us under British colonial rule.

I think you just don't really understand what statues are.

kingstonlake wrote:We also have Vietnam statues, monuments or memorials which pretty much acknowledges the same thing. I’m sure many of the names on the wall were guilty of war crimes Yet no clamoring to bring them down. I’m sure there are or will be gulf war Monuments. We have WWII monuments. We imprisoned Japanese for being Japanese. I’m sure the list is longer than we’d like to admit. George Custer? You have to be very careful when applying today’s standards and morality to past history.

Frank Ricard wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:A really good article that points out the mistakes of the "slippery slope" and historical arguments that justify keeping the statues up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/08/15/why-slippery-slope-arguments-should-not-stop-us-from-removing-confederate-monuments/?utm_term=.553c1b520ec6

With that said, I will make one point that justifies keeping them up. If they come down but that history is not preserved elsewhere, such as in a museum, I would prefer they stay up. Taking them down and not preserving that history is dangerous. It allows us to forget the mistakes of the past, and thus facilitates a certain laziness about always working to improve the society we live in.

---------------------------------- Below is my sarcastic response --------------------------------

These statues are like participation trophies. You know, the trophies you get when you lose but people feel like you deserve something anyway. We do not memorialize losers in this country. We are a country of winners. Heros do not get caught, and losers do not get statues.

Stick to your sarcastic side.  

Look, the only reason the vast majority of the monuments even exists is to remind minorities, especially Blacks, to stay in their place.  It's a reminder that whitey is in charge, no matter how the Civil War ended.  If we need them to remind our racist history, then put the goddamn things in a museum someplace, not to honor them, but to come to grips with the prejudice they represent.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:We also have Vietnam statues, monuments or memorials which pretty much acknowledges the same thing. I’m sure many of the names on the wall were guilty of war crimes Yet no clamoring to bring them down. I’m sure there are or will be gulf war Monuments. We have WWII monuments. We imprisoned Japanese for being Japanese. I’m sure the list is longer than we’d like to admit. George Custer? You have to be very careful when applying today’s standards and morality to past history.

We should take down names of people guilty of war crimes if we know they are guilty of war crimes.

kingstonlake wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

We should take down names of people guilty of war crimes if we know they are guilty of war crimes.

I don’t view memorials, statues, or monuments of the Vietnam war as a celebration.

kingstonlake wrote:Andrew Jackson has a sweet statue.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Like Travis said, we haven't built statues for all the enemies we've vanquished as a nation. Just confederates. We didn't build a statue of Benedict Arnold. We didn't build statues of a bunch of random generals that fought to keep us under British colonial rule.

I think you just don't really understand what statues are.

I don’t think you understand how people may not view a statue as a celebration.

kingstonlake wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

We should take down names of people guilty of war crimes if we know they are guilty of war crimes.

I don’t view memorials, statues, or monuments of the Vietnam war as a celebration.

kingstonlake wrote:Andrew Jackson has a sweet statue.

kingstonlake wrote:William Henry Harrison has a sweet statue.

kingstonlake wrote:So does Zachary Taylor.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

I don’t think you understand how people may not view a statue as a celebration.

Statues are built to honor or venerate the subject. This is not my opinion, this is fact.

kingstonlake wrote:

I don’t view memorials, statues, or monuments of the Vietnam war as a celebration.

Memorials =/= statues

kingstonlake wrote:Andrew Jackson has a sweet statue.

He was president, the statue was built to honor him.

kingstonlake wrote:William Henry Harrison has a sweet statue.

He was president, the statue was built to honor him.

kingstonlake wrote:So does Zachary Taylor.

He was president, the statue was built to honor him.

Setting aside valid arguments about whether or not statues of some of these presidents ought to come down, you're proving my point that they were put up in the first place to honor the subject.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Statues are built to honor or venerate the subject. This is not my opinion, this is fact.



Memorials =/= statues



He was president, the statue was built to honor him.



He was president, the statue was built to honor him.



He was president, the statue was built to honor him.

Setting aside valid arguments about whether or not statues of some of these presidents ought to come down, you're proving my point that they were put up in the first place to honor the subject.

Why did I visit statues, memorials, or monuments in the south? To honor them? Why did I visit battle fields? To honor the confederacy?The answer is no. It’s obvious why statues were built in the 1800’s. But it’s 2020.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:We also have Vietnam statues, monuments or memorials which pretty much acknowledges the same thing. I’m sure many of the names on the wall were guilty of war crimes Yet no clamoring to bring them down. I’m sure there are or will be gulf war Monuments. We have WWII monuments. We imprisoned Japanese for being Japanese. I’m sure the list is longer than we’d like to admit. George Custer? You have to be very careful when applying today’s standards and morality to past history.

We should take down names of people guilty of war crimes if we know they are guilty of war crimes.