Fuck it- statues

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

You really are determined to be on the same side of this issue as Donnie, huh?

There it is. And you wonder why people don’t want to attempt legitimate conversation. What’s life like on the opposite side of the same coin?

kingstonlake wrote:When do the book burnings start?

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

There it is. And you wonder why people don’t want to attempt legitimate conversation. What’s life like on the opposite side of the same coin?

What are you talking about? Take a look at your own conduct for a second. You keep posting non-sequiturs, refuse to elaborate, and get all pissy when you receive pushback.

Get your head out of your ass.

Turtleneck wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:When do the book burnings start?

Do you even read, bro?

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

What are you talking about? Take a look at your own conduct for a second. You keep posting non-sequiturs, refuse to elaborate, and get all pissy when you receive pushback.

Get your head out of your ass.

Push back? LOL, you just told someone they were determined to be on the same side of an issue As Trump for having a different opinion on something than you do.

You’re the other side of the same coin.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

Push back? LOL, you just told someone they were determined to be on the same side of an issue As Trump for having a different opinion on something than you do.

You’re the other side of the same coin.

No, I don't tell people they're on team Trump when they disagree with me. I tell people they are on team Trump when they agree with Donald Trump, as you seem to when it comes to statues and monuments.

What coin is that?

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

No, I don't tell people they're on team Trump when they disagree with me. I tell people they are on team Trump when they agree with Donald Trump, as you seem to when it comes to statues and monuments.

What coin is that?

Except that I don't agree with him. Wait..... you’re a Bernie bro, right? Refresh my memory.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

Except that I don't agree with him. Wait..... you’re a Bernie bro, right? Refresh my memory.

Maybe I'm unclear on your position because you refuse to elucidate it. Help me out. Are you for or against tearing down statues of problematic historical figures?

Not that it matters, I prefer Bernie to Biden, but I am firmly in the #YangGang if I have to align myself with any of them.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Maybe I'm unclear on your position because you refuse to elucidate it. Help me out. Are you for or against tearing down statues of problematic historical figures?

Not that it matters, I prefer Bernie to Biden, but I am firmly in the #YangGang if I have to align myself with any of them.

I couldn’t be more against tearing down “problematic” statues. Way to vague. As I’ve stated in the past I completely understand tearing down statues of confederate soldiers or generals. I personally don’t viewing them as anything but historical references.  I can understand why some would view them as honoring the memory of racism and have no problem with them coming down. I also think any federal facility or base named after a confederate general should be re-named.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

I couldn’t be more against tearing down “problematic” statues. Way to vague. As I’ve stated in the past I completely understand tearing down statues of confederate soldiers or generals. I personally don’t viewing them as anything but historical references.  I can understand why some would view them as honoring the memory of racism and have no problem with them coming down. I also think any federal facility or base named after a confederate general should be re-named.

So tearing down Confederate statues is okay, but you think Columbus is a bridge too far, then? I disagree, and I am prepared to discuss the merits of Columbus, but you've made it clear that you want no part of that discussion.

steveschneider wrote:I still think there needs to be a process around taking down these statues. You can't just have a mob going around ripping down statues.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

So tearing down Confederate statues is okay, but you think Columbus is a bridge too far, then? I disagree, and I am prepared to discuss the merits of Columbus, but you've made it clear that you want no part of that discussion.

Yes, I think it’s a bridge to far. Also you don’t think he discovered the lands he discovered so...... why bother

kingstonlake wrote:

steveschneider wrote:I still think there needs to be a process around taking down these statues. You can't just have a mob going around ripping down statues.

Apparently if anyone views them as “problematic”, it’s ok.

kingstonlake wrote:Breaking news. Nothing can be discovered that was already there. Sorry dudes who discovered elements, sorry dudes who discovered minerals, sorry people who discovered planets, sorry people who discovered new species. In that time and era it literally was discovering a new world. Just because people lived there doesn’t mean it was t discovered. Spoiler alert. Europeans didn’t come here until it was discovered.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:Breaking news. Nothing can be discovered that was already there. Sorry dudes who discovered elements, sorry dudes who discovered minerals, sorry people who discovered planets, sorry people who discovered new species. In that time and era it literally was discovering a new world. Just because people lived there doesn’t mean it was t discovered. Spoiler alert. Europeans didn’t come here until it was discovered.

If someone claims to have discovered a mineral, but people had been using that mineral for hundreds of years, the person claiming to have discovered it would be laughed out of the room.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

If someone claims to have discovered a mineral, but people had been using that mineral for hundreds of years, the person claiming to have discovered it would be laughed out of the room.

You’re going to extraordinary lengths to be offended by a statue of Columbus.  

Btw I discovered a great new fishing hole over the weekend in the U.P. I hope that doesn’t offend you.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

You’re going to extraordinary lengths to be offended by a statue of Columbus.  

Btw I discovered a great new fishing hole over the weekend in the U.P. I hope that doesn’t offend you.

I'm not offended by the statue, nor am I offended by it being torn down. I recognize that he is a symbol of colonialism and oppression to many, however, and I am accordingly sympathetic to their antipathy for him. To indigenous peoples, he personifies the sine qua non of the genocide of their people and culture. Compared to that, what do us white guys really lose from having the statue come down?

Enjoy your fishing.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:
I'm not offended by the statue, nor am I offended by it being torn down. I recognize that he is a symbol of colonialism and oppression to many, however, and I am accordingly sympathetic to their antipathy for him. To indigenous peoples, he personifies the sine qua non of the genocide of their people and culture. Compared to that, what do us white guys really lose from having the statue come down?

Enjoy your fishing.

As I said likewise concerning native Americans. People are making quite the leap tying Columbus to the oppression of others. Applying today’s definition of oppression to standards of 500 years ago is ridiculous. We did that as a nation 200-300 years after he discovered what lay across the Atlantic.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

As I said likewise concerning native Americans. People are making quite the leap tying Columbus to the oppression of others. Applying today’s definition of oppression to standards of 500 years ago is ridiculous. We did that as a nation 200-300 years after he discovered what lay across the Atlantic.

I don't think it's that big of a leap to tie Columbus to oppression. He brought captives back with him on his return voyage to Europe. Pretty clearly oppression, and also an ominous statement of intent.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

I don't think it's that big of a leap to tie Columbus to oppression. He brought captives back with him on his return voyage to Europe. Pretty clearly oppression, and also an ominous statement of intent.

500 years ago......When slavery was common place in the world. Should we erase every known symbol of US presidents, governors, senators, representatives, etc before blacks and women were allowed to vote? Jesus, people spend every minute of every day trying to being offended.

Jake from State Farm wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

500 years ago......When slavery was common place in the world. Should we erase every known symbol of US presidents, governors, senators, representatives, etc before blacks and women were allowed to vote? Jesus, people spend every minute of every day trying to being offended.

Why not? The people that are bitching about the statues coming down probably never even had a clue the statues existed before they made the news. Hell, I'd be willing to bet most of them blew off the only history class they ever had.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

I don't think it's that big of a leap to tie Columbus to oppression. He brought captives back with him on his return voyage to Europe. Pretty clearly oppression, and also an ominous statement of intent.

500 years ago......When slavery was common place in the world. Should we erase every known symbol of US presidents, governors, senators, representatives, etc before blacks and women were allowed to vote? Jesus, people spend every minute of every day trying to being offended.

kingstonlake wrote:

Jake from State Farm wrote:

Why not? The people that are bitching about the statues coming down probably never even had a clue the statues existed before they made the news. Hell, I'd be willing to bet most of them blew off the only history class they ever had.

That’s kinda cringe worthy, bro.

Jake from State Farm wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

That’s kinda cringe worthy, bro.

I was thinking more along the lines of the MAGA Confederate waving flag bunch that are whining about their racist Civil War hero/loser statues being removed. I'm sure there's plenty of other statues that could and should remain.

Come to think of it. How do these statues MAGA? Do they really want to go back to relive slavery and the Civil War?

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

500 years ago......When slavery was common place in the world. Should we erase every known symbol of US presidents, governors, senators, representatives, etc before blacks and women were allowed to vote? Jesus, people spend every minute of every day trying to being offended.

kingstonlake wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Don’t be a lazy poster Trav!

Jake from State Farm wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of the MAGA Confederate waving flag bunch that are whining about their racist Civil War hero/loser statues being removed. I'm sure there's plenty of other statues that could and should remain.

Come to think of it. How do these statues MAGA? Do they really want to go back to relive slavery and the Civil War?

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

Don’t be a lazy poster Trav!

It’s a lot more work to go find a gif than to type “you sound pretty offended rn” tbh

As I’ve stated in the past I completely understand tearing down statues of confederate soldiers or generals. I personally don’t viewing them as anything but historical references. I can understand why some would view them as honoring the memory of racism and have no problem with them coming down. I also think any federal facility or base named after a confederate general should be re-named.

kingstonlake wrote:Anyone want to join me in toppling the statues of father Marquette in and around the state? THEY MUST COME DOWN.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:Anyone want to join me in toppling the statues of father Marquette in and around the state? THEY MUST COME DOWN.

I don’t know what you’re babbling about but this sounds awfully snowflake offended tbh I’m sorry that you’re so hurt

MiamiSpartan wrote:The Spartan statues on campus need to come down as they are a symbol of the oppression and brutal enslavement of the Helots.

Cameron wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I don’t know what you’re babbling about but this sounds awfully snowflake offended tbh I’m sorry that you’re so hurt

He's all worked up about these statues. He must really love Columbus...

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:Anyone want to join me in toppling the statues of father Marquette in and around the state? THEY MUST COME DOWN.

I don’t know what you’re babbling about but this sounds awfully snowflake offended tbh I’m sorry that you’re so hurt

kingstonlake wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I don’t know what you’re babbling about but this sounds awfully snowflake offended tbh I’m sorry that you’re so hurt

Why would you? You guys don’t even know when you’re being mocked.