Re: Student Loans

by **Jake from State Farm** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 14:14

kingstonlake wrote:This debate is so stupid. Back to the point. Who gives a shit (well some do) if someone gets a $10,000 subsidy on a student loan?

Billionaires? Afraid it might mess with their tax cuts somehow.

by **Turtleneck** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 14:25

Jake from State Farm wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:This debate is so stupid. Back to the point. Who gives a shit (well some do) if someone gets a $10,000 subsidy on a student loan?

Billionaires? Afraid it might mess with their tax cuts somehow.

And 30k millionaires who think kissing billionaire ass will make them a billionaire too, or at least look like one.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 14:29

kingstonlake wrote:This debate is so stupid. Back to the point. Who gives a shit (well some do) if someone gets a $10,000 subsidy on a student loan?

Yes.

I think it should be the entire loan.

by TravelinMan Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 14:46

kingstonlake wrote:This debate is so stupid. Back to the point. Who gives a shit (well some do) if someone gets a $10,000 subsidy on a student loan?

Why stop at $10K? Give 'em $50K. Give 'em $100K. Heck, give EVERYONE $100K, whether they have student loans or not. Free money for everyone. What could possibly be the harm?

by **Jake from State Farm** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:00

TravelinMan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:This debate is so stupid. Back to the point. Who gives a shit (well some do) if someone gets a $10,000 subsidy on a student loan?

Why stop at $10K? Give 'em $50K. Give 'em $100K. Heck, give EVERYONE $100K, whether they have student loans or not. Free money for everyone. What could possibly be the harm?

Universities are basically printing money when it comes to tuition, so why not?

by **kingstonlake** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:03

TravelinMan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:This debate is so stupid. Back to the point. Who gives a shit (well some do) if someone gets a $10,000 subsidy on a student loan?

Why stop at $10K? Give 'em $50K. Give 'em $100K. Heck, give EVERYONE $100K, whether they have student loans or not. Free money for everyone. What could possibly be the harm?

I'm down. What are you proposing. Total loan forgiveness on government issued student loans?

Count me in.

by **Turtleneck** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:05

Trapper Gus wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:This debate is so stupid. Back to the point. Who gives a shit (well some do) if someone gets a $10,000 subsidy on a student loan?

Yes.

I think it should be the entire loan.

I agree but that also has to be paired with significant reform in higher education, or else we will just be in the same spot again down the road.

by TravelinMan Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:06

kingstonlake wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Why stop at $10K? Give 'em $50K. Give 'em $100K. Heck, give EVERYONE $100K, whether they have student loans or not. Free money for everyone. What could possibly be the harm?

I'm down. What are you proposing. Total loan forgiveness on government issued student loans?

Count me in.

You guys aren't thinking big enough. Let's go for ALL loan forgiveness. Mortgages, cars, student loans, the dude who did 90 days same as cash for his sectional sofa - you name it. All loans should be forgiven. Think of all the Sociologists we'll create. It will be glorious.

by **GRR Spartan** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:11

Looks like TravelinMan is in full troll mode today.

Has the allegedly successful computer science grad must have made some bad business decisions?

Typical attempt to shift from economic logic to ridiculous after having been exposed as the Swill’s poster boy of the “I GOT MINE SO FUCK YOU” Brigade

by **kingstonlake** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:21

TravelinMan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I'm down. What are you proposing. Total loan forgiveness on government issued student loans?

Count me in.

You guys aren't thinking big enough. Let's go for ALL loan forgiveness. Mortgages, cars, student loans, the dude who did 90 days same as cash for his sectional sofa - you name it. All loans should be forgiven. Think of all the Sociologists we'll create. It will be glorious.

Can you make me a case where forgiving all loans is a good idea? I'm willing to listen. But I'll be up front with you. It's gonna have to be a really well thought out presentation. But I will give it fair consideration on the merits.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:46

How about banning interest on student loans, retroactively.

by TravelinMan Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:54

kingstonlake wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

You guys aren't thinking big enough. Let's go for ALL loan forgiveness. Mortgages, cars, student loans, the dude who did 90 days same as cash for his sectional sofa - you name it. All loans should be forgiven. Think of all the Sociologists we'll create. It will be glorious.

Can you make me a case where forgiving all loans is a good idea? I'm willing to listen. But I'll be up front with you. It's gonna have to be a really well thought out presentation. But I will give it fair consideration on the merits.

Roads and sewers???

by **kingstonlake** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:55

TravelinMan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Can you make me a case where forgiving all loans is a good idea? I'm willing to listen. But I'll be up front with you. It's gonna have to be a really well thought out presentation. But I will give it fair consideration on the merits.

Roads and sewers???

That's not a compelling argument.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 15:57

Does TM know that student loans have loan shark terms?

by **kingstonlake** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 16:00

Trapper Gus wrote:Does TM know that student loans have loan shark terms?

Handing out 6 digit loans to unemployed 18 year olds who are still hungover from their graduation party. lol!

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 16:01

TravelinMan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I'm down. What are you proposing. Total loan forgiveness on government issued student loans?

Count me in.

You guys aren't thinking big enough. Let's go for ALL loan forgiveness. Mortgages, cars, student loans, the dude who did 90 days same as cash for his sectional sofa - you name it. All loans should be forgiven. Think of all the Sociologists we'll create. It will be glorious.

Government loans, sure. It seems like that is the deal everyone but the students gets anyway.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 16:02

kingstonlake wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:Does TM know that student loans have loan shark terms?

Handing out 6 digit loans to unemployed 18 year olds who are still hungover from their graduation party.

Then adding the interest to the loan amount indefinatly.

by TravelinMan Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 16:43

kingstonlake wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Roads and sewers???

That's not a compelling argument.

Student Loans - Page 8 Madagscar-penguins

by TravelinMan Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 17:50

Trapper Gus wrote:Does TM know that student loans have loan shark terms?

Maybe a more important question is, "Did the borrowers know?"

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 17:57

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:Does TM know that student loans have loan shark terms?

Maybe a more important question is, "Did the borrowers know?"

Wouldn't it be predatory lending if they were not informed by the lender?

Of course the students don't have a choice. It is take the loan or sit on the corner with a begging sign.

by TravelinMan Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 18:00

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Maybe a more important question is, "Did the borrowers know?"

Wouldn't it be predatory lending if they were not informed by the lender?

Of course the students don't have a choice. It is take the loan or sit on the corner with a begging sign.

Or it could be dumbasses signing things blindly.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 18:03

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Wouldn't it be predatory lending if they were not informed by the lender?

Of course the students don't have a choice. It is take the loan or sit on the corner with a begging sign.

Or it could be dumbasses signing things blindly.

Under the law it is the leaders responsibility to ensure the borrower is made completely aware of the terms, including the maximum interest which might be paid on the loan.

by **kingstonlake** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 18:20

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Wouldn't it be predatory lending if they were not informed by the lender?

Of course the students don't have a choice. It is take the loan or sit on the corner with a begging sign.

Or it could be dumbasses signing things blindly.

You sound like a a pleasure and genuinely honest person to business with.

by **Turtleneck** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 18:24

kingstonlake wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Or it could be dumbasses signing things blindly.

You sound like a a pleasure and genuinely honest person to business with.

Bro has def rolled back a few odometers in his day. Or not. I don’t know.

by **kingstonlake** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 18:41

Turtleneck wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

You sound like a a pleasure and genuinely honest person to business with.

Bro has def rolled back a few odometers in his day. Or not. I don’t know.

Probably owned his fair share of Government Motors trucks.

by TravelinMan Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 18:58

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Or it could be dumbasses signing things blindly.

Under the law it is the leaders responsibility to ensure the borrower is made completely aware of the terms, including the maximum interest which might be paid on the loan.

Reminds me of the old saying, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them understand the legal terms.”

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 19:07

As a freedom-lovin' patriot, all of these poor scumbags need to suck it up and work hard like I did.

Also, I have a truck that I can't afford to put gas in and I wholeheartedly blame other people for my decisions.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 19:14

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Under the law it is the leaders responsibility to ensure the borrower is made completely aware of the terms, including the maximum interest which might be paid on the loan.

Reminds me of the old saying, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them understand the legal terms.”

Adding interest to a loans principle is a loan shark move and is not legal.*

* except for student loans

by TravelinMan Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 19:16

Robert J Sakimano wrote:As a freedom-lovin' patriot, all of these poor scumbags need to suck it up and work hard like I did.

Also, I have a truck that I can't afford to put gas in and I wholeheartedly blame other people for my decisions.

You can't afford gas for your truck? You need me to Venmo you a few bucks?

by **DWags** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 22:25

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

It's not that I don't think we need sociologists. We probably do? I don't know. I've never needed one personally, and I don't have any on speed dial for emergencies. But yeah, I'm gonna assume they're useful for something.

What I don't understand is the thought process in a young person's mind that says, I'm going to spend a bunch of money I don't have to learn something that won't leave me with any decent career prospects. I guess it's just approaching it from the other side of the coin.

You guys are saying, "Oh, we need this. Society needs this. Therefore it's OK people do it." And I'm asking, "How does anyone decide to do this given that society doesn't pay well for this?"

You know the answer to that.

Who cares if he does or not. This character he’s created on this board says he doesn’t get it. So if he’s a real person fuck it, he won’t ever get it.

Can you imagine sitting at a table with a character like that and having a beer? Jesus. Just kill me.

Seriously, you find yourself in a room of people you sit down at a table, and his Personna that this guy has created is a real person sitting with people like him and they’re talking about poor people and asking questions like why the fuck would they take that job?

I mean, can you think about what you would feel like sitting there with people like that for fucks sake‘s? The thing is, I really know people like that exist, I’ve made it through life, trying to avoid most of them.

by **Turtleneck** Mon 12 Jun 2023 - 22:53

"In higher education and elsewhere, the commercializing ethos of infantilization encourages and is encouraged by a political ideology of privatization that delegitimizes adult public goods such as critical thinking and public citizenship (once the primary objectives of higher education) in favor of self-involved private choice and narcissistic personal gain."

"We sow as individuals what we would not necessarily choose to reap as a community. We are trapped in an individualistic consumer culture in which public goods that belong to us as citizens are not part of the accounting. The fate of capitalism and the fate of citizens no longer converge."

Benjamin Barber, Consumed, 2007.

Some people are slaves to consumer capitalism and are, without even realizing it, willing to let everything go to shit to protect it.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Tue 13 Jun 2023 - 8:19

DWags wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

You know the answer to that.

Who cares if he does or not. This character he’s created on this board says he doesn’t get it. So if he’s a real person fuck it, he won’t ever get it.

Can you imagine sitting at a table with a character like that and having a beer? Jesus. Just kill me.

Seriously, you find yourself in a room of people you sit down at a table, and his Personna that this guy has created is a real person sitting with people like him and they’re talking about poor people and asking questions like why the fuck would they take that job?

I mean, can you think about what you would feel like sitting there with people like that for fucks sake‘s? The thing is, I really know people like that exist, I’ve made it through life, trying to avoid most of them.

dude kinda freaked me out yesterday when he said "we'd probably be friends in real life"..... Shocked

I was like, 'yikes, man.. whatever gives you that impression, I need to do something about. Now". Student Loans - Page 8 502811600

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 13 Jun 2023 - 8:21

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
DWags wrote:

Who cares if he does or not. This character he’s created on this board says he doesn’t get it. So if he’s a real person fuck it, he won’t ever get it.

Can you imagine sitting at a table with a character like that and having a beer? Jesus. Just kill me.

Seriously, you find yourself in a room of people you sit down at a table, and his Personna that this guy has created is a real person sitting with people like him and they’re talking about poor people and asking questions like why the fuck would they take that job?

I mean, can you think about what you would feel like sitting there with people like that for fucks sake‘s? The thing is, I really know people like that exist, I’ve made it through life, trying to avoid most of them.
dude kinda freaked me out yesterday when he said "we'd probably be friends in real life".....

I was like, 'yikes, man.. whatever gives you that impression, I need to do something about. Now".

Well I'm not sure, but I have MAGA "friends". We just avoid talking about politics, or starving people.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Tue 13 Jun 2023 - 8:23

Trapper Gus wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
dude kinda freaked me out yesterday when he said "we'd probably be friends in real life".....

I was like, 'yikes, man.. whatever gives you that impression, I need to do something about. Now".

Well I'm not sure, but I have MAGA "friends". We just avoid talking about politics, or starving people.

we steer clear of those types. As I said yesterday, one of the very most important keys to happiness and contentment is to surround yourself with folks who you share values with, and who inspire you to be a better version of yourself.

that's how we choose to live and how we raised our daughter.. who, apparently, is going to be moving in with us anytime now because according to our republican/libertarian MAGA friend, she's a total failure at life. Student Loans - Page 8 502811600

by **kingstonlake** Tue 13 Jun 2023 - 8:57

Student loan forgiveness will cost roughly 30 billion
Oil subsidy costs are roughly 20 billion annually

2022 Profits....
Conoco Phillips made 18.75 billion
ExxonMobil made 55 billion
Shell made 40 billion
Chevron made 36.5 billion
Total Energies made 35.2 billion

But $10,000...... Makes me angry

by TravelinMan Tue 13 Jun 2023 - 9:31

DWags wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

You know the answer to that.

Who cares if he does or not. This character he’s created on this board says he doesn’t get it. So if he’s a real person fuck it, he won’t ever get it.

Can you imagine sitting at a table with a character like that and having a beer? Jesus. Just kill me.

Seriously, you find yourself in a room of people you sit down at a table, and his Personna that this guy has created is a real person sitting with people like him and they’re talking about poor people and asking questions like why the fuck would they take that job?

I mean, can you think about what you would feel like sitting there with people like that for fucks sake‘s? The thing is, I really know people like that exist, I’ve made it through life, trying to avoid most of them.

I would never talk about these things IRL. That would be rude.

But when I'm surrounded by people who have clearly made some very bad choices in life, it does make my little inside voice start to question things. And who better to actually voice these questions to than the caring, empathetic left wing socialists of tSwill?

I would never ask a Feminist Studies major with a minor in French Lit. why they should be bailed out. But I can ask you, Bob, Trap, and the others here and get a different perspective. It's interesting. It's the whole Ted Lasso be curious, not judgmental thing.

by AvgMSUJoe Tue 13 Jun 2023 - 9:40

TravelinMan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Who cares if he does or not. This character he’s created on this board says he doesn’t get it. So if he’s a real person fuck it, he won’t ever get it.

Can you imagine sitting at a table with a character like that and having a beer? Jesus. Just kill me.

Seriously, you find yourself in a room of people you sit down at a table, and his Personna that this guy has created is a real person sitting with people like him and they’re talking about poor people and asking questions like why the fuck would they take that job?

I mean, can you think about what you would feel like sitting there with people like that for fucks sake‘s? The thing is, I really know people like that exist, I’ve made it through life, trying to avoid most of them.

I would never talk about these things IRL. That would be rude.

But when I'm surrounded by people who have clearly made some very bad choices in life, it does make my little inside voice start to question things. And who better to actually voice these questions to than the caring, empathetic left wing socialists of tSwill?

I would never ask a Feminist Studies major with a minor in French Lit. why they should be bailed out. But I can ask you, Bob, Trap, and the others here and get a different perspective. It's interesting. It's the whole Ted Lasso be curious, not judgmental thing.

I get ya. If I didn't allow myself to deal with Rs, Id be a shut-in (in my county).
And really most of them aren't bad people per se, they have been bamboozled, and if they have the good sense to not bring that shit up in "polite company", then I can too.
Of course after you get to know them, their is usually a awkward conversation "Hey, are you a psycho?"... but that comes later.

by **kingstonlake** Tue 13 Jun 2023 - 9:41

TravelinMan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Who cares if he does or not. This character he’s created on this board says he doesn’t get it. So if he’s a real person fuck it, he won’t ever get it.

Can you imagine sitting at a table with a character like that and having a beer? Jesus. Just kill me.

Seriously, you find yourself in a room of people you sit down at a table, and his Personna that this guy has created is a real person sitting with people like him and they’re talking about poor people and asking questions like why the fuck would they take that job?

I mean, can you think about what you would feel like sitting there with people like that for fucks sake‘s? The thing is, I really know people like that exist, I’ve made it through life, trying to avoid most of them.

I would never talk about these things IRL. That would be rude.

But when I'm surrounded by people who have clearly made some very bad choices in life, it does make my little inside voice start to question things. And who better to actually voice these questions to than the caring, empathetic left wing socialists of tSwill?

I would never ask a Feminist Studies major with a minor in French Lit. why they should be bailed out. But I can ask you, Bob, Trap, and the others here and get a different perspective. It's interesting. It's the whole Ted Lasso be curious, not judgmental thing.

I think the issue here is where some people draw the line when looking at the big picture. Take for instance the oil subsidizing. You could remove the subsidizing in whole to pay for debt forgiveness and they would still be in profit by double digit billions. To me it's just an odd place to draw the line in the sand. But it's where we as a society have now been programmed to focus our angst. It's easier to be mad at something you can put a face on, like your neighbor. ExxonMobil Mobil corporate headquarters not so much.

by TravelinMan Tue 13 Jun 2023 - 9:44

kingstonlake wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I would never talk about these things IRL. That would be rude.

But when I'm surrounded by people who have clearly made some very bad choices in life, it does make my little inside voice start to question things. And who better to actually voice these questions to than the caring, empathetic left wing socialists of tSwill?

I would never ask a Feminist Studies major with a minor in French Lit. why they should be bailed out. But I can ask you, Bob, Trap, and the others here and get a different perspective. It's interesting. It's the whole Ted Lasso be curious, not judgmental thing.

I think the issue here is where some people draw the line when looking at the big picture. Take for instance the oil subsidizing. You could remove the subsidizing in whole to pay for debt forgiveness and they would still be in profit by double digit billions. To me it's just an odd place to draw the line in the sand. But it's where we as a society have now been programmed to focus our angst. It's easier to be mad at something you can put a face on, like your neighbor. ExxonMobil Mobil corporate headquarters not so much.

Well, I'm against the oil subsidies, too. So it's not like I'm choosing where to draw a line. That line is WAY in the back against the wall.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 13 Jun 2023 - 9:48

TravelinMan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I think the issue here is where some people draw the line when looking at the big picture. Take for instance the oil subsidizing. You could remove the subsidizing in whole to pay for debt forgiveness and they would still be in profit by double digit billions. To me it's just an odd place to draw the line in the sand. But it's where we as a society have now been programmed to focus our angst. It's easier to be mad at something you can put a face on, like your neighbor. ExxonMobil Mobil corporate headquarters not so much.

Well, I'm against the oil subsidies, too. So it's not like I'm choosing where to draw a line. That line is WAY in the back against the wall.

The thing is there has to be regulation to even create a market-based economy, and with regulation the government picks types of businesses to promote. You and I have touched on this in early discussions, so I know you know this.

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