Re: Grading Michigan State Football

by **DWags** 2021-09-05, 15:57

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
DWags wrote:

Dantonio woke up a sleeping giant he proved to America that Michigan State is capable of winning the Big Ten on the regular he did things that no other coach including the great Nick Saban could do at Michigan State he proved to both coaches and recruits that it’s able to be done at our school. His final years here where a shit show, but he rattled the big boy cages and he made a name for Michigan State that nobody else could do

Yeah, not sure why some super fans can’t acknowledge both that he built us up and tore us down but the emotional investment may block people from thinking logically about the last few years he was here. Fair. We are humans.

I think it’s just the super negative people that solely focus on his last year. It’s easy to ignore them, as they want to just drag you into their negativity. To the point, Dantonio didn’t leave on a good note, but what he proved can happen at msu is invaluable. That’s important. Until him, it really wasn’t believed nationally that msu was capable. If Saban couldn’t do it, it couldn’t be done. Coaches parents and recruits now think differently. I don’t think a program can put a value on that. Its not just his Rosebowl, his cotton bowl his playoff appearance, his big ten championships, his owning of Michigan his beating #1 OSU twice that matters. It’s the recognition that it’s possible at msu to do those things that’s important.
To MSU’s credit, they’re now throwing money around to back that up. Dantonio didn’t have it.

Add all that up and we still could be fifth in the east the next two years. But nobody can say msu isn’t capable of getting there. We’re not in that boat anymore.

by **The Pantry** 2021-09-05, 16:13

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Program was a mess when tucker came in and it’s not really debatable but y’all can have your opinions about the glory years before said mess

Glad I'm not you living in your short term world wanting immediate gratification. Yeah, the last couple seasons weren't great but you claiming Dantonio wrecked the program is more than naive.

by **NigelUno** 2021-09-05, 16:31

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
The Pantry wrote:
Can't build anything without a solid foundation. Dantonio set the footing. Up to Mel to build on it.

The fuck are you talking about in this entire thread? Playoffs? Alabama? Dantonio destroyed any foundation before he left in case you weren’t paying attention.

“Up to Mel to build on it” back to you in the studio, Steve.

Dantonio changed expectations for every MSU fan (including you).

by **duffy munn** 2021-09-05, 17:01

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
DWags wrote:

Dantonio woke up a sleeping giant he proved to America that Michigan State is capable of winning the Big Ten on the regular he did things that no other coach including the great Nick Saban could do at Michigan State he proved to both coaches and recruits that it’s able to be done at our school. His final years here where a shit show, but he rattled the big boy cages and he made a name for Michigan State that nobody else could do

Yeah, not sure why some super fans can’t acknowledge both that he built us up and tore us down but the emotional investment may block people from thinking logically about the last few years he was here. Fair. We are humans.

Yeah the end went poorly and Tucker faces a challenge. But again you completely dismiss the history of MSU football. I also think many believe the failure outweighs the incredible accomplishments.

Hopefully as time passes you will appreciate how good we had it for that run. And how improbable it was.

History will smile on the Dantonio era. Let's put it this way: nobody talks about how bad MSU was at the end of the Duffy Daugherty but they all remember he was on the cover of Time magazine.

by **steveschneider** 2021-09-05, 17:36

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
DWags wrote:

Dantonio woke up a sleeping giant he proved to America that Michigan State is capable of winning the Big Ten on the regular he did things that no other coach including the great Nick Saban could do at Michigan State he proved to both coaches and recruits that it’s able to be done at our school. His final years here where a shit show, but he rattled the big boy cages and he made a name for Michigan State that nobody else could do

Yeah, not sure why some super fans can’t acknowledge both that he built us up and tore us down but the emotional investment may block people from thinking logically about the last few years he was here. Fair. We are humans.

We ride the highs and the lows. The best part about any high is when you are on the way up. Feels like we are heading that way (I think) and I'm feeling euphoric about MSU football again. At some point we will crash out again but for now I'm going to ride the wave.

by **InTenSity** 2021-09-05, 21:07

Wait until Izzo retires. This fanbase will explode.

by **The Pantry** 2021-09-05, 21:15

InTenSity wrote:Wait until Izzo retires. This fanbase will explode.

Jud built that foundation. I hope Tom is prepping an understudy.

by **Rocinante** 2021-09-05, 21:32

Dantonio might have had a few bad years but the good ones far outweigh it. And he built the reputation that allows someone like Tuck to come in and recruit. I don’t think shitting on him is justified.

by **Turtleneck** 2021-09-05, 21:37

NigelUno wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

The fuck are you talking about in this entire thread? Playoffs? Alabama? Dantonio destroyed any foundation before he left in case you weren’t paying attention.

“Up to Mel to build on it” back to you in the studio, Steve.

Dantonio changed expectations for every MSU fan (including you).

Not me.

4-8

by AvgMSUJoe 2021-09-05, 21:44

Water finds its level.... MSU was a 6-6 team for 40 years. Dantonio changed that for better part of a decade. Sucked for 2 years....
High school kids now remember when MSU was the shit and challenged tOSU and made the final four, won big tens... believe it or not, this is still the hey day. Until the kids can't remember MSU was good there is something to build on.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2021-09-05, 21:45

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

Steve, what is Dantonio's traditional offense, what is Tressel ball, and how would that have made the game closer?

I'd agree with this definition.

"Tressel-ball" to many Ohio State fans means coaching in a conservative manner that relies on a stout defense and good special teams while minimizing offensive mistakes to win football games. "

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/291729-tressel-ball-under-fire-bad-coaching-equals-bad-offense

If we see Tressel ball last Friday the name of the game would have been to shell up on offense run the ball and eat up minutes and punt. Probably would have been content to hang in the 20's and try to win it with defense from the second quarter out.

Also, with Tressel ball the offense isn't that mixed up and predictable. Gives the opposing defense an advantage.

This just isn't the case. First of all, the key words in the description of Tressel Ball that you had to look up is "stout defense". We don't have that. Maybe with your so called Tressel Ball we would have scored in the 20s, but the thing is we would have given up single digits.

But why does Tressel Ball mean you won't score? OSU used to score a lot more than 30 points regularly, and we did in plenty of games, too. Both MD and JT had plenty of blowouts, so it's just silly to make assumptions about how the NU game would have gone.

For example, the conservative offense part of the Tressel Ball description that you looked up. Does tressel ball ask RBs to take a knee when they break into the open? We had 37 run plays to 25 pass plays, right? And not many deep pass plays either. A pretty conservative offensive game plan. In fact, most of the big runs by KWIII were not designed where they went. They were not schematic successes. It was KWIII's vision and ability that broke those open when the designed hole was blocked.

tl;dr - it's not X's and O's, it's the Jerry and Joes.

by **steveschneider** 2021-09-05, 22:05

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

I'd agree with this definition.

"Tressel-ball" to many Ohio State fans means coaching in a conservative manner that relies on a stout defense and good special teams while minimizing offensive mistakes to win football games. "

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/291729-tressel-ball-under-fire-bad-coaching-equals-bad-offense

If we see Tressel ball last Friday the name of the game would have been to shell up on offense run the ball and eat up minutes and punt. Probably would have been content to hang in the 20's and try to win it with defense from the second quarter out.

Also, with Tressel ball the offense isn't that mixed up and predictable. Gives the opposing defense an advantage.

This is a whole lot of nonsense, I'm sorry. First of all, the key words in the description of Tressel Ball that you had to look up is "stout defense". We don't have that. Maybe with your so called Tressel Ball we would have scored in the 20s, but the thing is we would have given up single digits.

But why does Tressel Ball mean you won't score? OSU used to score a lot more than 30 points regularly, and we did in plenty of games, too. Both MD and JT had plenty of blowouts, so it's just silly to make assumptions about how the NU game would have gone.

For example, the conservative offense part of the Tressel Ball description that you looked up. Does tressel ball ask RBs to take a knee when they break into the open? We had 37 run plays to 25 pass plays, right? And not many deep pass plays either. A pretty conservative offensive game plan. In fact, most of the big runs by KWIII were not designed where they went. They were not schematic successes. It was KWIII's vision and ability that broke those open when the designed hole was blocked.

tl;dr - it's not X's and O's, it's the Jerry and Joes.

That I had to look up? Pfft. Okay.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2021-09-05, 22:09

Is saying he kinda shit the bed shitting on him? I just think it’s fair to say and the knee jerk reaction to saying he did is almost some sort of insecure defensive mechanism in my opinion. Guy is a legend but the legend is the legend

by TrapperGus 2021-09-06, 08:13

Pervis Muldoon wrote:Hello, Spartan fans! While you enjoyed the game from your casual, non-expert perspective, I spent twelve hours rewatching every play multiple times, then I compiled and triple-checked my notes on each player and coach so I could accurately evaluate all contributors from the standpoints of structure, game-planning, in-game adjustments, decision-making and execution. This enabled me to precisely deliver a pass/fail grade for the Michigan State football team as a whole. My grade for Game 1: pass.

I'm thinking it was more: run

by **NigelUno** 2021-09-06, 09:24

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Is saying he kinda shit the bed shitting on him? I just think it’s fair to say and the knee jerk reaction to saying he did is almost some sort of insecure defensive mechanism in my opinion. Guy is a legend but the legend is the legend

The whole 'He burned it to the ground and destroyed the foundation' is a bit much for me.

That you're pissed off with 7-6 seasons means he raised your level of expectations for the program. That level (or foundation) remains.

by MSU addict 2021-09-06, 10:38

Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth... There is no spoon.

To me, arguing about a football program's "foundation" seems odd. If a foundation exists it is at the university level not in a coaches legacy.

College football is changing at an incredible pace right now. NIL, the transfer portal, playoff expansion, conference realignment, COVID, the BLM movement, a myriad of things really.

We should appreciate everything that Dantonio did for MSU but know that Mel Tucker's success will have more to do with how he manages the transfer portal than what Dantonio left him in the cupboard.

by TrapperGus 2021-09-06, 12:23

MSU addict wrote:Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth... There is no spoon.

To me, arguing about a football program's "foundation" seems odd. If a foundation exists it is at the university level not in a coaches legacy.

College football is changing at an incredible pace right now. NIL, the transfer portal, playoff expansion, conference realignment, COVID, the BLM movement, a myriad of things really.

We should appreciate everything that Dantonio did for MSU but know that Mel Tucker's success will have more to do with how he manages the transfer portal than what Dantonio left him in the cupboard.

Dantonio did great things at MSU, in terms of program building a number of facility upgrades happened on his watch, which really is the main thing. His style of recruiting stopped working, especially after other coaches caught on to how good a talent spotter he was and started offering the people he was offering.

Tucker looks like he might be the right person for the new era of collage football being much more like the NFL. Recruit and keep the good ones, get rid of the average and bad ones and use the portal to bring in talent. It is a new world, one I think Mark probably hates.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-09-06, 16:28

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by AvgMSUJoe 2021-09-06, 19:08

MSU addict wrote:
We should appreciate everything that Dantonio did for MSU but know that Mel Tucker's success will have more to do with how he manages the transfer portal than what Dantonio left him in the cupboard.

The fact that the kids might even consider transferring to msu is a feather in Dantonio's cap. That shouldn't be discounted.
How many 4 stars would transfer to a JLS lead 500 team?

by TrapperGus 2021-09-06, 19:18

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
MSU addict wrote:
We should appreciate everything that Dantonio did for MSU but know that Mel Tucker's success will have more to do with how he manages the transfer portal than what Dantonio left him in the cupboard.
The fact that the kids might even consider transferring to msu is a feather in Dantonio's cap. That shouldn't be discounted.
How many 4 stars would transfer to a JLS lead 500 team?

Oh, now you all are starting to attach the guy who create what CMD built on. So who recruited Hoyer?

by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-09-06, 20:53

[tw]1434920039841415174[/tw]

by **Turtleneck** 2021-09-07, 00:02

Michigan State Football: 3 hot takes from impressive win at Northwestern

https://spartanavenue.com/2021/09/06/michigan-state-football-hot-takes-impressive-win-northwestern/

by TrapperGus 2021-09-07, 08:06

Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1434920039841415174[/tw]

Is being above the trend line good? Or bad?

by **NigelUno** 2021-09-07, 08:13

TrapperGus wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1434920039841415174[/tw]

Is being above the trend line good? Or bad?

Being in the upper right quadrant is good.

by TrapperGus 2021-09-07, 08:31

NigelUno wrote:
TrapperGus wrote:

Is being above the trend line good? Or bad?

Being in the upper right quadrant is good.

Thanks, so the trend line is mostly meaningless.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-09-13, 12:25

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by Pervis Muldoon 2021-09-13, 19:48

Still analyzing interior offensive line play. I'll have the Game Two grade later tonight.

by Pervis Muldoon 2021-09-13, 22:45

Thank you for your patience. I had to search the dark web to find another angle of a second-down run in the third quarter. Game two grade: pass.

by **Nordic** 2021-09-13, 22:53

Pervis Muldoon wrote:Thank you for your patience. I had to search the dark web to find another angle of a second-down run in the third quarter. Game two grade: pass.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2021-09-13, 23:00

2-0

A+

by **Heat Miser** 2021-09-13, 23:07

Renew those Swill memberships now, before the price goes up!

by **The Pantry** 2021-09-15, 15:29

Michigan State football S Xavier Henderson graded as No. 1 safety in nation

by **steveschneider** 2021-09-15, 15:32

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:2-0

A+

If we go 3-0 with a win vs the Hurricanes you can officially color me impressed.

by **The Pantry** 2021-09-19, 15:22

20 in AP poll
21 in Coaches

by AvgMSUJoe 2021-09-19, 16:07

Pervis Muldoon wrote:Thank you for your patience. I had to search the dark web to find another angle of a second-down run in the third quarter. Game two grade: pass.

Wonder what Pervis will grade them out this game... just refreshing the shit out of this thread until I hear.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-09-20, 11:05

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by **The Pantry** 2021-09-20, 12:38

I like the comment "Is the other Kenneth Walker?"

by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-09-21, 12:58

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by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-09-21, 13:15

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by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-09-21, 14:10

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