Israel war

Cameron wrote:I realize that literally everything even remotely political is all about Donald Trump to you, because you have a pretty textbook case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. Your last post was about a Trump gaffe, had literally NOTHING to do with Israel or Gaza. I get that you want to dismiss opposition to Biden's tactics as white privilege so you can simply hand wave it away, but that's pretty textbook bad faith argument.

In summary, go fuck yourself.

Thanks

Yours truly,
The russian echo chamber involved in american politics

Intensity isn’t wrong about white privilege. And it kind of gave me an idea. What do white privileged people love as much as their white privileged? Money. Let’s do the math. 100k uncommitted votes. The DNC offers $50 bucks per absentee ballot. What is that 5 million dollars?


Boom Biden wins Michigan. You know he’d get at least 70k of those ballots.

What’s worse? Dying in the Gaza Strip at the hands of Israel or living under Hamas in the Gaza Strip? I’ll grant you that Israel plays a large role for the living conditions the GS. But is living under Hamas really an upgrade? It’s verifiably a human rights violation living under their rule. End this shit and both parties accept the green line from 1946 or whatever that is. Whatever, I kinda stopped caring because there will NEVER be a solution that Israel won’t break as far as advancement in territories they they feel they have a right to, and Palestine not having factions that will commit terrorists acts against Israeli civilians over. Cause bible or Koran something

lol the whole idea of electing Donald Trump to stop the war in Gaza. Good grief. A) exhibit 1a why the Palestinian movement desperately needs better leadership and B) prime example while the far left loses. Nobody likes a political arsonist!

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:
Have I not made it clear that I am entirely willing to suffer the consequences if Israel does not cease its genocide in the face of maximal pressure from their closest ally? I am entirely willing to suffer those consequences.

You don't know what those consequences might be, how far are you willing to go? The total destruction of our government, way of life & the death of 50% of our population?

We don't know what's at stake here, guy, so a willingness to give it up is ignorant drivel.

This is your best post in this thread.

steveschneider wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

You don't know what those consequences might be, how  far are you willing to go?  The total destruction of our government, way of life & the death of 50% of our population?  

We don't know what's at stake here, guy, so a willingness to give it up is ignorant drivel.

This is your best post in this thread.

Only because Cameron has gone off to a undefendable position.

The loss of life in Gaza is unforgivable, sure.

His expecting Biden to tear up the international order, which would be the possible result of the US knifing Israel in the back, is ignorant, and he has no idea what results would be.

He is a child crying without an adult perspective of the damages of the solutions he is proposing to what he wants stopped with equal significant events on ongoing in several places around the world.

https://earlywarningproject.ushmm.org/ongoing-mass-killing

(He is also being a bit of child with his reputation downvotes, as if they really mattered, against many posters who disagree with him)

Trapper Gus wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

This is your best post in this thread.

Only because Cameron has gone off to a undefendable position.

The loss of life in Gaza is unforgivable, sure.

His expecting Biden to tear up the international order, which would be the possible result of the US knifing Israel in the back, is ignorant, and he has no idea what results would be.

He is a child crying without an adult perspective of the damages of the solutions he is proposing to what he wants stopped will equal significant events on ongoing in several places around the world.

Biden was seen walking out of the whitehouse with a copy of this book:

Possible:  how we survive and thrive in an age of conflict.  By William Ury


So some sharp CNN reporters got Ury on for an interview. Probabythe best interview I’ve seen in a while. I’ll be buying the Harvard professors book


I won’t go on about the interview, the point is, it’s that wild people are throwing stones at Biden, I guarantee he’s doing everything you can to negotiate something reasonable between two very unreasonable parties

Kingston is right, the people of Gazza are screwed and always have been.  

Unfortunately, there is no cease-fire guy out there.  But it seems to me there are some really naïve people in this world, and they don’t understand what’s coming if Trump gets thrown into the mix  

For the people of Gaza, I hope Biden can get something done before he loses the Trump in November.  I think most of the adults in our country do.   It takes a lot a d I know Biden is responsibly working on it.  No matter how much the crazies are going to stamp their feet.

DWags wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Only because Cameron has gone off to a undefendable position.

The loss of life in Gaza is unforgivable, sure.

His expecting Biden to tear up the international order, which would be the possible result of the US knifing Israel in the back, is ignorant, and he has no idea what results would be.

He is a child crying without an adult perspective of the damages of the solutions he is proposing to what he wants stopped will equal significant events on ongoing in several places around the world.

Biden was seen walking out of the whitehouse with a copy of this book:

Possible:  how we survive and thrive in an age of conflict.  By William Ury


So some sharp CNN reporters got Ury on for an interview. Probabythe best interview I’ve seen in a while. I’ll be buying the Harvard professors book


I won’t go on about the interview, the point is, it’s that wild people are throwing stones at Biden, I guarantee he’s doing everything you can to negotiate something reasonable between two very unreasonable parties

Kingston is right, the people of Gazza are screwed and always have been.  

Unfortunately, there is no cease-fire guy out there.  But it seems to me there are some really naïve people in this world, and they don’t understand what’s coming if Trump gets thrown into the mix  

For the people of Gaza, I hope Biden can get something done before he loses the Trump in November.  I think most of the adults in our country do.   It takes a lot a d I know Biden is responsibly working on it.  No matter how much the crazies are going to stamp their feet.

Biden isn't losing to Trump, no matter how hard the MSM tries to make that happen. (tNYT poll out today - "Is Biden/Trump too old to be President" )

It would be my guess that Biden knows everything that is in that book already, reading it is more reassurance that he and his team are doing everything possible, or maybe the author gave it to him as an expert who has been pulled in to provide guidance.

Trapper Gus wrote:

His expecting Biden to tear up the international order, which would be the possible result of the US knifing Israel in the back, is ignorant, and he has no idea what results would be.

International order? What does that even mean? Order in whose eyes? Are they a NATO member or something?

Knifing Israel in the back? lol that’s just boot licking my man. Ain’t nobody talking about sending 35 billion in military aide to Palestine. THAT would be knifing someone in the back.

kingstonlake wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

His expecting Biden to tear up the international order, which would be the possible result of the US knifing Israel in the back, is ignorant, and he has no idea what results would be.

International order? What does that even mean? Order in whose eyes? Are they a NATO member or something?

Knifing Israel in the back? lol that’s just boot licking my man. Ain’t nobody talking about sending 35 billion in military aide to Palestine. THAT would be knifing someone in the back.

Cameron wants Biden to fix this, somehow. If you think that could be done cleanly, which we all know Biden has been trying to do, rather than Cameron's one idea of cutting off all aid to Israel, which yes, is knifing Israel in the back and causing every other US supported country to wonder how reliable the US is if they get in trouble, then please do tell.

Trapper Gus wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

International order? What does that even mean? Order in whose eyes? Are they a NATO member or something?

Knifing Israel in the back? lol that’s just boot licking my man. Ain’t nobody talking about sending 35 billion in military aide to Palestine. THAT would be knifing someone in the back.

Cameron wants Biden to fix this, somehow. If you think that could be done cleanly, which we all know Biden has been trying to do, rather than Cameron's one idea of cutting off all aid to Israel, which yes, is knifing Israel in the back and causing every other US supported country to wonder how reliable the US is if they get in trouble, then please do tell.

That’s a fun way of putting it.

And maybe people thinking that our aid isn’t unconditional isn’t the worst thing in the world. I mean why would we want people thinking that they can take our money and do whatever the fuck they want? Nonsense argument.

Trapper Gus wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

International order? What does that even mean? Order in whose eyes? Are they a NATO member or something?

Knifing Israel in the back? lol that’s just boot licking my man. Ain’t nobody talking about sending 35 billion in military aide to Palestine. THAT would be knifing someone in the back.

Cameron wants Biden to fix this, somehow.  If you think that could be done cleanly, which we all know Biden has been trying to do, rather than Cameron's one idea of cutting off all aid to Israel, which yes, is knifing Israel in the back and causing every other US supported country to wonder how reliable the US is if they get in trouble, then please do tell.

lol. This ends when Israel says it ends.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wants Biden to fix this, somehow.  If you think that could be done cleanly, which we all know Biden has been trying to do, rather than Cameron's one idea of cutting off all aid to Israel, which yes, is knifing Israel in the back and causing every other US supported country to wonder how reliable the US is if they get in trouble, then please do tell.

That’s a fun way of putting it.

And maybe people thinking that our aid isn’t unconditional isn’t the worst thing in the world. I mean why would we want people thinking that they can take our money and do whatever the fuck they want? Nonsense argument.

It is what Cam has been saying, so that part is on him.

There is more at stake for the US, in its relationship with Israel, even if none of our posters know what else is at stake, than just what Irael is doing in Gaza.  Every reasonable rational poster should be willing to accept that.

We don't know, nor can we know everything that is at stake.  We do know from past revelations that Israel passes on top-secret eyes-only intelligence reports to the US, including the one Trump blew the cover on the source at the start of his term by passing it on to the country being spied on, Russia.

While US aid isn't unconditional, neither should the US be making line in the sand demands.  Take it or leave it negotiation tactics are not a good idea if you are trying to sell a car.  They are a much worse idea in international diplomacy.

kingstonlake wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wants Biden to fix this, somehow.  If you think that could be done cleanly, which we all know Biden has been trying to do, rather than Cameron's one idea of cutting off all aid to Israel, which yes, is knifing Israel in the back and causing every other US supported country to wonder how reliable the US is if they get in trouble, then please do tell.

lol. This ends when Israel says it ends.

Agreed.

The US doesn't have as much leverage as Cam thinks.

Israel maintains a working relationship with Russia to keep the US in line.

I'm not sure Israel has condemned Russia Ukraine invasion. Last time I knew they hadn't.

kingstonlake wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wants Biden to fix this, somehow.  If you think that could be done cleanly, which we all know Biden has been trying to do, rather than Cameron's one idea of cutting off all aid to Israel, which yes, is knifing Israel in the back and causing every other US supported country to wonder how reliable the US is if they get in trouble, then please do tell.

lol. This ends when Israel says it ends.

A couple of truths. 1. Both sides are insane. 2. One side of this insanity probably is a bit more reasonable than the other.

Maybe I’m crazy for using the term reasonable when talking about this.

Trapper Gus wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

lol. This ends when Israel says it ends.

Agreed.  

The US doesn't have as much leverage as Cam thinks.  

Israel maintains a working relationship with Russia to keep the US in line.

I'm not sure Israel has condemned Russia Ukraine invasion.  Last time I knew they hadn't.

I’m sure harsh words with a blank check in your hands, and vetoing cease fires is solid evidence that “We all know Biden has been trying to end this”.

Haven't been able to post an interesting report from the MSM, nor, because I have other commitments can I provide a link right now, though this is out there, so it shouldn't be that hard it find, but...

The leader of one of the parties which opposes Netanyahu in Israel is visiting various countries, including the US where he will meet with Senate & House leaders and VP Harris, all against Netanyahu's wishes.

This is a BFD.

kingstonlake wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Agreed.  

The US doesn't have as much leverage as Cam thinks.  

Israel maintains a working relationship with Russia to keep the US in line.

I'm not sure Israel has condemned Russia Ukraine invasion.  Last time I knew they hadn't.

I’m sure harsh words with a blank check in your hands, and vetoing cease fires is solid evidence that “We all know Biden has been trying to end this”.

Oh please, we don't have a clue as to what is being said privately.

kingstonlake wrote: This ends when Israel says it ends.

That's right.

Probably 80% of the work is done. 20% (including Rafah) to go.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

That’s a fun way of putting it.

And maybe people thinking that our aid isn’t unconditional isn’t the worst thing in the world. I mean why would we want people thinking that they can take our money and do whatever the fuck they want? Nonsense argument.

It is what Cam has been saying, so that part is on him.

There is more at stake for the US, in its relationship with Israel, even if none of our posters know what else is at stake, than just what Irael is doing in Gaza.  Every reasonable rational poster should be willing to accept that.

We don't know, nor can we know everything that is at stake.  We do know from past revelations that Israel passes on top-secret eyes-only intelligence reports to the US, including the one Trump blew the cover on the source at the start of his term by passing it on to the country being spied on, Russia.

While US aid isn't unconditional, neither should the US be making line in the sand demands.  Take it or leave it negotiation tactics are not a good idea if you are trying to sell a car.  They are a much worse idea in international diplomacy.

This is just you doing that thing you do where you trust Biden unequivocally because you like him. And you’re asking everyone else to have that same unequivocal trust, which is absurd.

Take it or leave it when the other option is genocide is good, actually.

Trapper Gus wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

I’m sure harsh words with a blank check in your hands, and vetoing cease fires is solid evidence that “We all know Biden has been trying to end this”.

Oh please, we don't have a fucking clue as to what is being said privately.

Did I have the facts wrong?

Also a big fan of saying that other countries, who support a cease fire, would be upset by the us calling for a ceasefire.

I guess that’s that kind of nonsense that comes out when the guy that can’t figure out sarcasm on a message board without being told it’s sarcasm is the one that lectures everyone about the nuances of foreign policy.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wants Biden to fix this, somehow. If you think that could be done cleanly, which we all know Biden has been trying to do, rather than Cameron's one idea of cutting off all aid to Israel, which yes, is knifing Israel in the back and causing every other US supported country to wonder how reliable the US is if they get in trouble, then please do tell.

That’s a fun way of putting it.

And maybe people thinking that our aid isn’t unconditional isn’t the worst thing in the world. .

I always thought we did get something back for our aid. That there are conditions. (Beyond private American companies who put trillions back into our economy from foreign companies using public money to purchase weapons from the U.S.).

I get and agree with your point. There has to be some conditions attached to all of this. But the day after Hitler pulled the trigger, the United States and the Soviets started setting up a quid pro quo relationship with as many countries as we could. Hell Taft and Knox implemented “dollar diplomacy” back in 1909. While we probably had conditions tacked on to all of our economic help, I don’t think there were many instances where we didn’t benefit from the aid we gave.

You can stop reading but I’m going to list the companies I’ve researched that benefit the most from Israel purchases since October 7
AeroVironment

A military drone manufacturer headquartered in Arlington, Virginia.
Around Oct. 30, Israel requested to purchase 200 AeroVironment Switchblade 600 Kamikaze drones, an advanced direct fire loitering missile system that acts as a “suicide drone.”

Agilite

A private Israeli manufacturer of tactical gear and body armor that, since Oct. 7, has repeatedly advertised the use of its equipment by the Israeli military in its ground invasion of Gaza. On Dec. 6, for example, the company posted a photo of Israeli soldiers outfitted in Agilite tactical gear with the caption "Search and destroy #swordsofiron." The company's equipment is sold by at least 34 retailers in the U.S. and can be purchased through U.S. contracting procurement vehicles.

AM General

A manufacturer of military vehicles based in South Bend, Indiana. The company's High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV or Humvee) has been used by the Israeli military in Gaza. The armor for these vehicles is made by Plasan

The Boeing Company

The world's fifth largest weapons manufacturer, Boeing manufactures F-15 fighter jets and Apache AH-64 attack helicopters, which the Israeli Air Force has used extensively in all of its attacks on Gaza and Lebanon, including in 2023.
Boeing also manufactures multiple types of unguided small diameter bombs

It feels like a Dresden bombing type thing. You've won. We know it, you know it, they know it. Maybe the end game is making sure you’ve cultivated two generations of Palestinians who will hate you to the point of intermittent terror attacks that allow you to come crawling to the US for 35 billion a year so you can keep the cycle going.

Maybe this just boils down to la forced Jewish state at that latitude and longitude is a bad idea.

Biden perfect, orange man bad, we can't stop the genocide because reasons.

I feel like most of you have brain damage.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

That’s a fun way of putting it.

And maybe people thinking that our aid isn’t unconditional isn’t the worst thing in the world. I mean why would we want people thinking that they can take our money and do whatever the fuck they want? Nonsense argument.

It is what Cam has been saying, so that part is on him.

There is more at stake for the US, in its relationship with Israel, even if none of our posters know what else is at stake, than just what Irael is doing in Gaza.  Every reasonable rational poster should be willing to accept that.

We don't know, nor can we know everything that is at stake.  We do know from past revelations that Israel passes on top-secret eyes-only intelligence reports to the US, including the one Trump blew the cover on the source at the start of his term by passing it on to the country being spied on, Russia.

While US aid isn't unconditional, neither should the US be making line in the sand demands.  Take it or leave it negotiation tactics are not a good idea if you are trying to sell a car.  They are a much worse idea in international diplomacy.

That is a lie. I never said anything about cutting off aid to anyone because they got in trouble. I said we should cut off aid to Israel because they are currently perpetrating a genocide.

Trapper Gus wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

lol. This ends when Israel says it ends.

Agreed.  

The US doesn't have as much leverage as Cam thinks.  

Israel maintains a working relationship with Russia to keep the US in line.

I'm not sure Israel has condemned Russia Ukraine invasion.  Last time I knew they hadn't.

Good, let Russia send them military aid and aid and abet their genocide instead of us. But I don't think Russia really has a ton of extra military capacity to spare at the moment.

And of course Israel can't condemn what Russia is doing in Ukraine, what they are doing in Gaza is worse.

DWags wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

That’s a fun way of putting it.

And maybe people thinking that our aid isn’t unconditional isn’t the worst thing in the world. .

I always thought we did get something back for our aid. That there are conditions.   (Beyond private American companies who put trillions back into our economy from foreign companies using public money to purchase weapons from the U.S.).

I get and agree with your point.  There has to be some conditions attached to all of this.  But the day after Hitler pulled the trigger, the United States and the Soviets  started setting up a quid pro quo relationship with as many countries as we could.  Hell Taft and Knox implemented “dollar diplomacy” back in 1909.  While we probably had conditions tacked on to all of our economic help, I don’t think there were many instances where we didn’t benefit from the aid we gave.  

You can stop reading but I’m going to list the companies I’ve researched that benefit the most from Israel purchases since October 7
AeroVironment

A military drone manufacturer headquartered in Arlington, Virginia.
Around Oct. 30, Israel requested to purchase 200 AeroVironment Switchblade 600 Kamikaze drones, an advanced direct fire loitering missile system that acts as a “suicide drone.”

Agilite

A private Israeli manufacturer of tactical gear and body armor that, since Oct. 7, has repeatedly advertised the use of its equipment by the Israeli military in its ground invasion of Gaza. On Dec. 6, for example, the company posted a photo of Israeli soldiers outfitted in Agilite tactical gear with the caption "Search and destroy #swordsofiron." The company's equipment is sold by at least 34 retailers in the U.S. and can be purchased through U.S. contracting procurement vehicles.

AM General

A manufacturer of military vehicles based in South Bend, Indiana. The company's High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV or Humvee) has been used by the Israeli military in Gaza. The armor for these vehicles is made by Plasan

The Boeing Company

The world's fifth largest weapons manufacturer, Boeing manufactures F-15 fighter jets and Apache AH-64 attack helicopters, which the Israeli Air Force has used extensively in all of its attacks on Gaza and Lebanon, including in 2023.
Boeing also manufactures multiple types of unguided small diameter bombs

Right, it would be irresponsible to stop the genocide or cut off aid, because the military industrial complex might suffer for it.

That's really dumb.

Talib on CNN: “ I am incredibly scared of a second term of Donald Trump, our democracy is at stake”

Reporter: “ will you vote for Biden in November?”


Doesn’t answer and walks away


She shouldn’t be scared of bad orange man I guess.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

It is what Cam has been saying, so that part is on him.

There is more at stake for the US, in its relationship with Israel, even if none of our posters know what else is at stake, than just what Irael is doing in Gaza.  Every reasonable rational poster should be willing to accept that.

We don't know, nor can we know everything that is at stake.  We do know from past revelations that Israel passes on top-secret eyes-only intelligence reports to the US, including the one Trump blew the cover on the source at the start of his term by passing it on to the country being spied on, Russia.

While US aid isn't unconditional, neither should the US be making line in the sand demands.  Take it or leave it negotiation tactics are not a good idea if you are trying to sell a car.  They are a much worse idea in international diplomacy.

This is just you doing that thing you do where you trust Biden unequivocally because you like him. And you’re asking everyone else to have that same unequivocal trust, which is absurd.

Take it or leave it when the other option is genocide is good, actually.

I know that it is more complex than just what you guys are seeing on your teevees, and that your accusations of who I trust or don't trust are you guys acting out.

[tw]1764336527050510439?s=20[/tw]

Cameron wrote:[tw]1764336527050510439?s=20[/tw]

https://khanna.house.gov/about/about-rep-khanna

Okay, read up on his positions and education history and though okay I'm still not a fan.

Not every foreign policy problem can be solved just by supporting human rights, as he suggests.  Sometimes the better answer to someone shooting at someone is to give the good guys the ability to shoot back, or to shoot back yourself.

He education in Economics, UofChi and teaching at Stanford, both very Conservative Free Market type schools, and his positions on Econonic issues are as about as Conservative as a person can be in the Democratic Party.  Obama, whose administration he worked in, was a disaster in that he did nothing to advance progressive econonics.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:[tw]1764336527050510439?s=20[/tw]

https://khanna.house.gov/about/about-rep-khanna

Okay, read up on his positions and education history and though okay I'm still not a fan.

Not every foreign policy problem can be solved just by supporting human rights, as he suggests.  Sometimes the better answer to someone shooting at someone is to give the good guys the ability to shoot back, or to shoot back yourself.

He education in Economics, UofChi and teaching at Stanford, both very Conservative Free Market type schools, and his positions on Econonic issues are as about as Conservative as a person can be in the Democratic Party.  Obama, whose administration he worked in, was a disaster in that he did nothing to advance progressive econonics.

Citation needed.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

https://khanna.house.gov/about/about-rep-khanna

Okay, read up on his positions and education history and though okay I'm still not a fan.

Not every foreign policy problem can be solved just by supporting human rights, as he suggests.  Sometimes the better answer to someone shooting at someone is to give the good guys the ability to shoot back, or to shoot back yourself.

He education in Economics, UofChi and teaching at Stanford, both very Conservative Free Market type schools, and his positions on Econonic issues are as about as Conservative as a person can be in the Democratic Party.  Obama, whose administration he worked in, was a disaster in that he did nothing to advance progressive econonics.

Citation needed.

Included in the link I provided

Why do I have to provide links and you don't?

The link you provided says nothing about being conservative. It does use the word progressive.

Khanna is a strong supporter of the labor movement and has pushed for policies like the PRO Act to ensure that no one with a full-time job needs to rely on food stamps, housing vouchers, or other welfare. He is also one of only a few members of Congress to refuse contributions from PACs and lobbyists. He supports a 12-year term limit for Members of Congress, 18 years for Supreme Court Justices, and a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United. Since arriving in Congress, he has had five bills signed into law.

That doesn't sound very conservative to me.

Cameron wrote:The link you provided says nothing about being conservative. It does use the word progressive.

Khanna is a strong supporter of the labor movement and has pushed for policies like the PRO Act to ensure that no one with a full-time job needs to rely on food stamps, housing vouchers, or other welfare. He is also one of only a few members of Congress to refuse contributions from PACs and lobbyists. He supports a 12-year term limit for Members of Congress, 18 years for Supreme Court Justices, and a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United. Since arriving in Congress, he has had five bills signed into law.

That doesn't sound very conservative to me.

The link I provided went through the economic positions he supports had his economic education, all of which scream neo-liberal economics, basically Bill Clinton's "middle way" of turning everything over the corporations.    Plus, for as everyone who pays attention knows, the University of Chicago & Standford are two of the centers of conservative economic thought, so that plus he lack of support for progressive economics in his statement of positions on his congressional "bio" means he is way to the right of AOC, Senator Warren and Senator Sanders.

He may be talking the talk (actually he isn't in the details) but he sure isn't walking the walk.

Don't misinterpret this, as some of you do, just because he isn't a fav of mine doesn't mean I don't support his re-election bid. I do. We need all the Democratics in Congress we can get. I just wish he was a real progressive and not a Clinton middle way guy in sheep's clothing.

[tw]1764288596440211768[/tw]

It needs to be said, here.

Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to make deals to get what he wants.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

DWags wrote:



A couple of truths. 1. Both sides are insane. 2. One side of this insanity probably is a bit more reasonable than the other.

Maybe I’m crazy for using the term reasonable when talking about this.

yep.

the difference is one side of the insanity is an entire government of a country. The other side of the insanity is a terrorist organization within the country.

which is worse is debatable probably depends on your libertarian/republican 'pro-life' christian views.

keep in mind, I'm only on day two of my Trump Derangement Syndrome antibiotic. 8 more days to go, so check back and see if my impression of libertarian/republican 'pro-life' christians then.

Hamas isn't a small group of nut jobs with rocket launchers. Hamas has been the de facto governing body in the Gaza Strip since 2007, when it ousted the Palestinian Authority from power.

This factual correction in no way implies support for any side of this conflict.