Re: Israel war

by **Motown Spartan** Fri 29 Mar 2024 - 9:05

Zurn wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

About 3.5 million remain, most of which have fled. So it’s working! Go genocide!

Well, first of all, genocide generally refers to killing people not fleeing people.

Second of all, of the people that have fled, the vast vast vast majority are still in Gaza and so my number remains correct with about 5 1/2 million people still living in Gaza and the West Bank

As I have posted many times, on the left the narrative is key, not the truth. The narrative is that there is a genocide happening in Palestine. The truth is that the same number of people live in Gaza and the West Bank today as were there on Oct 7.

Genocide means a lot more than killing people. Basically, disrupting their ability to be a society.

Genocide

by **Trapper Gus** Fri 29 Mar 2024 - 9:14

Zurn wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

About 3.5 million remain, most of which have fled. So it’s working! Go genocide!

Well, first of all, genocide generally refers to killing people not fleeing people.

Second of all, of the people that have fled, the vast vast vast majority are still in Gaza and so my number remains correct with about 5 1/2 million people still living in Gaza and the West Bank

As I have posted many times, on the left the narrative is key, not the truth. The narrative is that there is a genocide happening in Palestine. The truth is that the same number of people live in Gaza and the West Bank today as were there on Oct 7.

The RWNJ's are still saying there was election fraud in 2020 and Trump won the election with zero evidence, Israel has wantonly slaughtered over 30,000 Palestinians, yet your big this is ragging about that instead of about the RWNJ's claiming the election was stolen.

by Zurn Fri 29 Mar 2024 - 9:16

Motown Spartan wrote:

Genocide means a lot more than killing people. Basically, disrupting their ability to be a society.

Killing is literally a part of the word.

Your definition "disrupting their ability to be a society" would lead us to say that the Allies were committing genocide by bombing Nazi Germany.

by **Motown Spartan** Fri 29 Mar 2024 - 9:34

Zurn wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

Genocide means a lot more than killing people. Basically, disrupting their ability to be a society.

Killing is literally a part of the word.

Your definition "disrupting their ability to be a society" would lead us to say that the Allies were committing genocide by bombing Nazi Germany.

Part of the word. You said it was the definition. And no, the allies didn’t indiscriminately destroy Germany or kill Germans. As a matter of fact they tried very hard to preserve German culture.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Fri 29 Mar 2024 - 11:09

Motown Spartan wrote:
Zurn wrote:

How is that genocide coming along? On October 7 there were about 5.5 million Arabs living in Gaza and the West Bank. How many are there now? Given the genocide I suspect many less.

Great point, thanks for bringing it up.

About 3.5 million remain, most of which have fled. So it’s working! Go genocide!

isn't it odd.. though quite typical... that the 'pro-life' guy trivializes war atrocities, the murder of human beings as "how's that genocide thing coming along"?

by **Cameron** Fri 29 Mar 2024 - 15:36

State Department Spokesman Urged to Resign Over 'Despicable' Attack on UN Expert

"Matthew Miller should be forced to resign for trying to endanger the life of a U.N. official with falsehoods," Ashish Prashar, a spokesperson for Gaza Voices, said in a statement. Albanese said earlier this week that she has faced threats following the publication of her report accusing Israel of committing genocide in the Gaza Strip.

Rohan Talbot, director of advocacy and campaigns at Medical Aid for Palestinians, called the State Department spokesman's remarks a "truly despicable, Trumpian smearing of a principled human rights expert."

"Note the lack of substantive rebuttals of her careful analysis, and the resort to ad hominem attacks," Talbot wrote on social media. "Not the sign of a confident administration."

He should definitely resign. I think MSNBC is hiring...

by **Cameron** Fri 29 Mar 2024 - 15:59

[tw]1773794507928035580?s=20[/tw]

I haven't read the paywalled WaPo article, and Bezos already gets enough of my money, so I'll let one of you Biden simps do the honors and tell me why this is a good thing, actually.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat 30 Mar 2024 - 8:42

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-03-30-2024-c0ab29bb92b859e22c927ae82637192b

by **Cameron** Sat 30 Mar 2024 - 10:16

Israel seems to be disregarding the UN resolution and doing nothing more to let more aid in, yet we continue to ship weapons. Why? All I can think is that Genocide Joe is fine with what they're doing.

For those of you with children, if they were cutting their sibling with scissors and blocking you from putting any band aids on the cuts and spitting in your eye when you told them to stop, would you keep giving them sharp scissors when their current ones get dull? What kind of dumbassery is this?

by **Trapper Gus** Sat 30 Mar 2024 - 10:42

Cameron wrote:Israel seems to be disregarding the UN resolution and doing nothing more to let more aid in, yet we continue to ship weapons. Why? All I can think is that Genocide Joe is fine with what they're doing.

For those of you with children, if they were cutting their sibling with scissors and blocking you from putting any band aids on the cuts and spitting in your eye when you told them to stop, would you keep giving them sharp scissors when their current ones get dull? What kind of dumbassery is this?

The weapons being moved into the US Armory in Israel were scheduled over a year ago. They are stored in Israel as the US Military's Armory on the eventually of a war in the mideast on which the US needs them.

I see the political words from politicians on this issue but have no belief they are being honest or if they know what they are talking about.

Israel produces most of its own weapons, Iron Dome being the possible exception, and exports weapons to other country.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/27/gaza-war-puts-us-extensive-weapons-stockpile-in-israel-under-scrutiny

https://www.justsecurity.org/91213/the-war-reserve-stockpile-allies-israel-explained-why-congress-should-not-expand-it/

All I'm getting out of this is that Israel probably, but not certainly, is using weapons for the US stores of weapons in Israel.

by **Cameron** Sat 30 Mar 2024 - 11:17

From your Guardian link:

Israel now appears to be receiving munitions from the stockpile in significant quantities for use in its war on Gaza, yet there has been little transparency about transfers from the arsenal.

In interviews with the Guardian, multiple former US officials familiar with American security assistance to Israel have described how the stockpile enables expedited arms transfers to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It can also shield movements of US weapons from public and congressional oversight, they said.

Josh Paul, who recently resigned from the state department in protest at Washington’s continued lethal assistance for Israel, said the proposed changes to the stockpile were part of a drive by the Biden administration to find new ways to supply Israel.

Describing internal US deliberations in October, he said: “There was a press from the White House to say essentially we need to figure out every possible [legal] authority that we could give Israel that would get it weapons as fast as possible.”

Paul, who until October worked on the US’s foreign arms transfers, said he was concerned by the expedited process as it could bypass the state department’s pre-transfer controls. “There’s no review of human rights, there’s no review of regional balance, there’s none of the conventional arms transfer policy review that would normally happen,” he said. “Essentially, it’s take what you can and we’ll sort it out later.”

Now, the White House is seeking to use its supplemental spending request to further relax rules related to WRSA-I, a move that senators led by Elizabeth Warren have said would harm their ability to “determine whether US assistance is contributing to disproportionate civilian harm”.

Sure doesn't seem like Genocide Joe is too concerned with what Israel is doing with these weapons. "Expedite" and "bypass" don't exactly sound like restraint, do they?

by **Cameron** Sat 30 Mar 2024 - 11:20

Insofar as we don't know how many arms and munitions have actually been transferred, that would also seem to be down to the Biden Administration's lack of transparency.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat 30 Mar 2024 - 12:24

Cameron wrote:From your Guardian link:

Israel now appears to be receiving munitions from the stockpile in significant quantities for use in its war on Gaza, yet there has been little transparency about transfers from the arsenal.

In interviews with the Guardian, multiple former US officials familiar with American security assistance to Israel have described how the stockpile enables expedited arms transfers to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It can also shield movements of US weapons from public and congressional oversight, they said.

Josh Paul, who recently resigned from the state department in protest at Washington’s continued lethal assistance for Israel, said the proposed changes to the stockpile were part of a drive by the Biden administration to find new ways to supply Israel.

Describing internal US deliberations in October, he said: “There was a press from the White House to say essentially we need to figure out every possible [legal] authority that we could give Israel that would get it weapons as fast as possible.”

Paul, who until October worked on the US’s foreign arms transfers, said he was concerned by the expedited process as it could bypass the state department’s pre-transfer controls. “There’s no review of human rights, there’s no review of regional balance, there’s none of the conventional arms transfer policy review that would normally happen,” he said. “Essentially, it’s take what you can and we’ll sort it out later.”

Now, the White House is seeking to use its supplemental spending request to further relax rules related to WRSA-I, a move that senators led by Elizabeth Warren have said would harm their ability to “determine whether US assistance is contributing to disproportionate civilian harm”.

Sure doesn't seem like Genocide Joe is too concerned with what Israel is doing with these weapons. "Expedite" and "bypass" don't exactly sound like restraint, do they?

All that can be seen is speculation, not really enought to start calling people names over.

In addition, one needs an expert in the agreements and US laws passed to know what the US options, as executed as a matter of law, are.

Too many people are running off with ignorance as to the laws, treaties, agreements, etc about the US/Israel relationships.

Thus far the MSM isn't much help in understanding it.

Both the Guardian and the other link I provided are more conjecture & speculation than analysis.

Here is a link, which I have not read, which details some public parts of the relationship...

https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-israel-2/#:~:text=ECONOMIC%20TIES&text=Several%20treaties%20and%20agreements%2C%20including,become%20Israel's%20largest%20trading%20partner.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat 30 Mar 2024 - 15:34

News from the other side of this war...

https://apnews.com/article/iran-palestinians-leader-israel-islamic-jihad-nakhalah-d507575f170f47e87432a48d4606ec03

by **Trapper Gus** Sat 30 Mar 2024 - 16:04

Quite a bit of history about why Israel is important to the US in on this link

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93United_States_relations

by **Cameron** Sat 30 Mar 2024 - 21:54

[tw]1774156898729689558?s=20[/tw]

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon 1 Apr 2024 - 12:51

as one of our 'pro-life' friends here likes to say, mocking the death of thousands, "how's that genocide going"??

looks like his fellow 'pro-life' christians want to accelerate death and destruction.

"We shouldn’t be spending a dime on humanitarian aid," Walberg said. "It should be like Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Get it over quick."

given the choice, what would jesus choose: humanitarian aid or nuclear weapons?

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

by **Cameron** Mon 1 Apr 2024 - 13:08

If there were any justice in this world, people like that would no longer be welcome in polite company. Absolutely heinous.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon 1 Apr 2024 - 13:12

Cameron wrote:If there were any justice in this world, people like that would no longer be welcome in polite company. Absolutely heinous.

agree completely.

by Zurn Mon 1 Apr 2024 - 13:37

Motown Spartan wrote: And no, the allies didn’t indiscriminately destroy Germany or kill Germans. As a matter of fact they tried very hard to preserve German culture.

The people of Dresden beg to differ.

by **GRR Spartan** Mon 1 Apr 2024 - 14:07

CNN reporting Iran is protesting the attack of an Iranian consulate in Syria that killed 7 including a top commander in Iran’s Revolutionary Guard.

Don’t know why Netanyahu didn’t start killing Iranian advisers to Hamas and assassinating Hamas leadership that’s been living in luxury in Doha Qatar.

Hamas 3 most powerful leaders, Ismail Haniyeh, Moussa Abu Marduk and Khaled Marshal whose combine personal worths is $11B are doing okay in Doha. Far from the shelling and killing going on in Gaza.

by **Motown Spartan** Mon 1 Apr 2024 - 14:29

Zurn wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote: And no, the allies didn’t indiscriminately destroy Germany or kill Germans. As a matter of fact they tried very hard to preserve German culture.

The people of Dresden beg to differ.

Yeah, that was horrific. And if you think I’m going to defend every action taken by the American military or government you’re sadly mistaken. And if you argument against claims of genocide are actions taken by others at a time and place in the past before both of us were born, well, that’s a losing argument.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 1 Apr 2024 - 15:21

Zurn wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote: And no, the allies didn’t indiscriminately destroy Germany or kill Germans. As a matter of fact they tried very hard to preserve German culture.

The people of Dresden beg to differ.

Dresden was a transportation hub and a military base, which was a strong point that the allies would have to take by frontal assault. Collateral damage of the air raids is estimated at 20k to 25k, out of 1.6 million.

FWIW bombing of civilian areas was avoided when possible during the Second World War but it was not, at that time, considered a war crime.

by **Cameron** Mon 1 Apr 2024 - 16:23

AIPAC Says We’re Not Starving In Gaza. How Dare They?

Every day, I look at my son’s face and wonder if I will ever be able to get him enough food, or even milk. Will there ever be a night where he doesn’t cry himself to sleep with hunger? Will there ever be a day when he has had enough to eat? I try to keep him cheerful even as he goes hungry. I try to put a smile on his face even when there are no reasons for any of us to be smiling. I try to keep him, and my family, safe from everything that’s happening, even though there is no way for us to be truly safe right now. I feel weak, and helpless, and naïve, over and over again. And the world is watching all of this happen—watching us slowly die. The only conclusion we can reach is that our lives don’t matter all that much.

by **Cameron** Tue 2 Apr 2024 - 11:27

World Central Kitchen halts operations in Gaza after strike kills staff

According to WCK, the workers who died were Australian, Polish, British, Palestinian and a dual US-Canadian citizen.

I understand that we apparently don't care about Palestinians dying, but how many US citizens is Israel allowed to kill before Genocide Joe stops shipping weapons?

by TravelinMan Tue 2 Apr 2024 - 11:34

Cameron wrote:World Central Kitchen halts operations in Gaza after strike kills staff

According to WCK, the workers who died were Australian, Polish, British, Palestinian and a dual US-Canadian citizen.

I understand that we apparently don't care about Palestinians dying, but how many US citizens is Israel allowed to kill before Genocide Joe stops shipping weapons?

I don't mean to victim blame, but if you're a U.S. citizen, why in the name of all that is holy have you not gotten out of there by now? NOT a good place to hang out these days, guys.

by **Cameron** Tue 2 Apr 2024 - 12:01

Because they are brave and selfless people who wanted to do good in the world. Blame the IDF for deliberately targeting aid and aid workers, and the Biden Administration for aiding and abetting them. But don't blame the victims for not being sufficiently self interested to prioritize their safety over doing necessary and important humanitarian work.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Tue 2 Apr 2024 - 12:41

Cameron wrote:Because they are brave and selfless people who wanted to do good in the world. Blame the IDF for deliberately targeting aid and aid workers, and the Biden Administration for aiding and abetting them. But don't blame the victims for not being sufficiently self interested to prioritize their safety over doing necessary and important humanitarian work.

yeah, victim blaming isn't a good look. It's right up there with "so how's that genocide going" while Palestinians are being slaughtered and humanitarian workers being murdered.

also, now that I mention it, what's up with all of the do-gooders participating in humanitarian missions?

don't they know that if they really wanted to live the word of god, they would support genocide and promote the christian faith by purchasing bibles from a convicted rapist?

by msugolfguy Tue 2 Apr 2024 - 12:49

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Cameron wrote:Because they are brave and selfless people who wanted to do good in the world. Blame the IDF for deliberately targeting aid and aid workers, and the Biden Administration for aiding and abetting them. But don't blame the victims for not being sufficiently self interested to prioritize their safety over doing necessary and important humanitarian work.
yeah, victim blaming isn't a good look. It's right up there with "so how's that genocide going" while Palestinians are being slaughtered and humanitarian workers being murdered.

also, now that I mention it, what's up with all of the do-gooders participating in humanitarian missions?

don't they know that if they really wanted to live the word of god, they would support genocide and promote the christian faith by purchasing bibles from a convicted rapist?

What's next doctors without borders?!??!

by Zurn Wed 3 Apr 2024 - 8:25

Trapper Gus wrote:

FWIW bombing of civilian areas was avoided when possible during the Second World War but it was not, at that time, considered a war crime.

Firebombing the city center of Dresden at night was a helluva way to avoid the bombing of civilian areas.

by **Cameron** Wed 3 Apr 2024 - 8:29

Convenient to be litigating Dresden instead of Gaza right now, eh RQA?

-------
Since too many posts were made, this topic has been divided automatically. You can find the rest of this topic here :
https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t25978-israel-war

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