No worries. Environment will now be saved. They threw soup at the Mona Lisa.

Motown Spartan wrote:

Cameron wrote:"You have the right to protest, but only quietly and in designated areas." - the US Constitution, probably

Close. The People have the right to peacefully assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances.  

Sort of why storming the US Capital to stop the certification of the EC votes is an insurrection, not just a protest.

Cameron wrote:"You have the right to protest, but only quietly and in designated areas." - the US Constitution, probably

I mean if you want to protest by breaking laws or shoving people off of stages, disrupting commerce blocking roads and bridges which creates huge safety hazards, nobody is going to stop you.

My point has always been, are you trying to bring attention to your cause? If so, are the actions you taking going to make neutral citizens side with you?

I’m all for civil disobedience. It’s always saved us from the tyranny of both the minority and majority.

DWags wrote:

Cameron wrote:There is a tussle in progress as the clip starts, not clear how it started. I wouldn't be at all surprised if "security" or similar was the one to initiate actual physical contact. In pretty much every video of a protestor just yelling, it ends with them being forcibly dragged away by one or more dudes in suits.

The protesters were invited on stage? Because if they weren’t, a line was crossed.

Anyway, it’s going to get way worse. We all know that. I’m mentally prepared for scenes of cars running over protesters blocking roads. Bodies broken getting shoved from stages. I understand that many people accept that as a progressive step toward settling an issue. We’ve all lived it before. Songs have been written about it. Songs will be. I always hope for peaceful resolution like Montgomery, but understand that’ those a few and far between.

Songs won’t be. That’s actually a fairly large grievance of mine that I think would help. Music now and really for the last several decades, is devoid of any real substantive message. Why? Because capitalism Ultimately destroys everything it touches. It’s more profitable to write a song about dancing in a bar or a breakup than it is to write about any actual issues. But imagine if Taylor swift started writing about climate change. The effect would be massive. Alas, won’t happen.

Anyway I really don’t give a shit that Lisa Murkowski and an oil exec had a sad time at their jerk off press conference. I think you’re massively overstating it

DWags wrote:

Cameron wrote:There is a tussle in progress as the clip starts, not clear how it started. I wouldn't be at all surprised if "security" or similar was the one to initiate actual physical contact. In pretty much every video of a protestor just yelling, it ends with them being forcibly dragged away by one or more dudes in suits.

The protesters were invited on stage?  Because  if they weren’t, a line was crossed.

Anyway, it’s going to get way worse. We all know that. I’m mentally prepared for scenes of cars running over protesters blocking roads. Bodies broken getting shoved from stages.  I understand that many people accept that as a progressive step toward settling an issue.  We’ve all lived it before.  Songs have been written about it. Songs will be.  I always hope for peaceful resolution like Montgomery, but understand that’ those a few and far between.  

ohhh... we should start a list of favorite protest songs.

I've always been a big fan of Masters of War.

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good?
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could?
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And if you can find one that is any good written since 2000 you get bonus points

We were in a war for 2 decades there must be something

Bruce did a couple...

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

DWags wrote:
The protesters were invited on stage? Because if they weren’t, a line was crossed.

Anyway, it’s going to get way worse. We all know that. I’m mentally prepared for scenes of cars running over protesters blocking roads. Bodies broken getting shoved from stages. I understand that many people accept that as a progressive step toward settling an issue. We’ve all lived it before. Songs have been written about it. Songs will be. I always hope for peaceful resolution like Montgomery, but understand that’ those a few and far between.

Songs won’t be. That’s actually a fairly large grievance of mine that I think would help. Music now and really for the last several decades, is devoid of any real substantive message. Why? Because capitalism Ultimately destroys everything it touches. It’s more profitable to write a song about dancing in a bar or a breakup than it is to write about any actual issues. But imagine if Taylor swift started writing about climate change. The effect would be massive. Alas, won’t happen.

Anyway I really don’t give a shit that Lisa Murkowski and an oil exec had a sad time at their jerk off press conference. I think you’re massively overstating it

Has nothing to do with Markowski. Could be Harbaugh. It’s the action. Mix up the sides or people. Doesn’t matter to me.

But, no worries, I believe by next January we will be looking back at these protests as fluffy nice ones. Hope I’m wrong.

American Idiot, Green Day, 2004
We The People, A Tribe Called Quest, 2016
This Is America, Childish Gambino, 2018
Thought And Prayers, Drive By Truckers, 2020

I think it's more the loss of our shared experiences than it is the lack of artistry.

Trapper Gus wrote:Bruce did a couple...

I'll go with "Devils and Dust" as my favorite.

Motown Spartan wrote:American Idiot, Green Day, 2004
We The People, A Tribe Called Quest, 2016
This Is America, Childish Gambino, 2018
Thought And Prayers, Drive By Truckers, 2020

I think it's more the loss of our shared experiences than it is the lack of artistry.

dig the Truckers inclusion.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:And if you can find one that is any good written since 2000 you get bonus points

Green Day American idiot

Black eyed peas where is the love

Lady Gaga born this way


And

Yeah, it's out there, but not as ubiquitous as music was in the 90's and before. Too many other options. My parents were familiar with the music we listened to in the 80's and 90's because that is what was on the radio and they had no other choice. I have no idea what my daughter listens to because I would have to go find it and I don't listen to the radio. I listen by genre.

I have a lot to add on the music front, but we're going to grab a drink and pick up some Middle Eastern food.

To be continued..

Every Rise Against album

DWags wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Songs won’t be. That’s actually a fairly large grievance of mine that I think would help. Music now and really for the last several decades, is devoid of any real substantive message. Why? Because capitalism Ultimately destroys everything it touches. It’s more profitable to write a song about dancing in a bar or a breakup than it is to write about any actual issues. But imagine if Taylor swift started writing about climate change. The effect would be massive. Alas, won’t happen.

Anyway I really don’t give a shit that Lisa Murkowski and an oil exec had a sad time at their jerk off press conference. I think you’re massively overstating it

Has nothing to do with Markowski. Could be Harbaugh. It’s the action. Mix up the sides or people. Doesn’t matter to me.

But, no worries, I believe by next January we will be looking back at these protests as fluffy nice ones. Hope I’m wrong.

You’re, uh, joking when you say it has nothing to do worth Murkowski right? What do you think she is some innocent little Senator showing up with the oil company to praise their destroying of the planet of which she can do nothing about? Come on dwags

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

DWags wrote:


Has nothing to do with Markowski. Could be Harbaugh. It’s the action. Mix up the sides or people. Doesn’t matter to me.

But, no worries, I believe by next January we will be looking back at these protests as fluffy nice ones. Hope I’m wrong.

You’re, uh, joking when you say it has nothing to do worth Murkowski right? What do you think she is some innocent little Senator showing up with the oil company to praise their destroying of the planet of which she can do nothing about? Come on dwags

Environmental protest has everything to do with an petro state and she is one of their Senators

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

DWags wrote:


Has nothing to do with Markowski. Could be Harbaugh. It’s the action. Mix up the sides or people. Doesn’t matter to me.

But, no worries, I believe by next January we will be looking back at these protests as fluffy nice ones. Hope I’m wrong.

You’re, uh, joking when you say it has nothing to do worth Murkowski right? What do you think she is some innocent little Senator showing up with the oil company to praise their destroying of the planet of which she can do nothing about? Come on dwags

Don’t like her, don’t like the company, am opposed to everything they stand for.

I’m against violence in protests. I won’t green light it ever. So, have at me.

DWags wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

You’re, uh, joking when you say it has nothing to do worth Murkowski right? What do you think she is some innocent little Senator showing up with the oil company to praise their destroying of the planet of which she can do nothing about? Come on dwags

Don’t like her, don’t like the company, am opposed to everything they stand for.

I’m against violence in protests. I won’t green light it ever. So, have at me.

Again. You’re not for violence. You’re not for throwing soup. You’re not for Starbucks

You just want people to eat shit deal with it and keep their mouths shut and not fuck shit up for you.

By the way, watched the video. It’s pretty clear that what happened is the protesters got on stage to shout her out and they’re the ones being pushed off. They aren’t the ones that initiated the violence when they’re the ones being thrown to the ground. But sure, let’s blame protesters and not the senators heavy handed security.

I remember on Wells when Bullwrinkle used to respond with when he was owned. Interesting to see that tactic here...

Privileged old upper middle class white guy who doesn't like any disruptions to the status quo because his TDS is acting up. Truly despicable.

Come on cam, I read a post that said I want people to just shut up and eat shit. That’s funny. I’m not going to waste my time arguing with that made up shit. You can’t reason with the adult equivalent of throwing a tantrum, making up shit, pulling crap out of the air and saying that’s what I want. It’s a losing battle and I don’t have the energy.

I know there’s a climate crisis. I know we need to do more for our children and theirs. I’m not against protests. But you yourself thought the soup and the people who closed traffic down were not great tactics. You posted that in this thread. The POS murkowski was one of the few republicans who came out against gassing and rubber bullets used to clear a path for Trump to walk from the whitehouse to a church and hold a Bible upside down before an election. Shit like that doesn’t win votes

All I’m saying is that tends to turn people off of your cause. I’m against violence. This group has disrupted Buttigieg and Granholm. But Biden allowed a meeting with Podesta in December with this group. If they become violent, I don’t think they’ll get many more face to face meetings with our clean energy guy. I might be wrong.

I think, but I’m not sure that groups like the Environmental Law Institute and the climate judiciary project are doing more with less disruption. I just won’t get behind violence or endangerment at these events.

You can accuse me of whatever, I can take it, but I sincerely believe there is a need to win the hearts of people. If those people stood in front of the stage and screamed vs jumping up on it, I believe there is more sympathy today for them. Disagree with me on that all you want, I’ll respect your opinion. I’m not smart enough to figure out other ways to bring about climate change. Wish I was.

Dwags the thing is I don’t actually think that that’s what you think.

It is what you sound like though. I’m trying told hold up a mirror for you.

The nature of protest at some point has to be inconvenient for someone. If it’s not, all you have is someone yelling on a street corner that serves no purpose. Go ahead and name any protest ever and try to think of who it was inconvenient for. Fuck the tamest of all, Rosa parks, was inconvenient for the person that legitimately believed they belonged at the front of the bus. How violent would that have been if Lisa murkowski’s security were in charge of where people sat?

So again it’s always going to come back to what form of protest are you actually comfortable with then if not going directly at two sources of the problem being protested?

I also think you place Murkowski in the same category as Cheney (they are both vile pieces of shit) because being anti trump is ultimately the only thing you care sbout in any public figure. At the end of the day more than not wanting buffoons as president is going to be required of public officials though

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Dwags the thing is I don’t actually think that that’s what you think.

II’m trying told hold up a mirror for you.





I also think you place Murkowski in the same category as Cheney because being anti trump is ultimately the only thing you care sbout in any public figure.

Noted.and thanks for trying to enlighten me and explain to me what I think and look for in candidates. Appreciate it.

DWags wrote:Come on cam, I read a post that said I want people to just shut up and eat shit. That’s funny. I’m not going to waste my time arguing with that made up shit. You can’t reason with the adult equivalent of throwing a tantrum, making up shit, pulling crap out of the air and saying that’s what I want. It’s a losing battle and I don’t have the energy.

I know there’s a climate crisis. I know we need to do more for our children and theirs. I’m not against protests. But you yourself thought the soup and the people who closed traffic down were not great tactics. You posted that in this thread. The POS murkowski was one of the few republicans who came out against gassing and rubber bullets used to clear a path for Trump to walk from the whitehouse to a church and hold a Bible upside down before an election. Shit like that doesn’t win votes

All I’m saying is that tends to turn people off of your cause. I’m against violence. This group has disrupted Buttigieg and Granholm. But Biden allowed a meeting with Podesta in December with this group. If they become violent, I don’t think they’ll get many more face to face meetings with our clean energy guy. I might be wrong.

I think, but I’m not sure that groups like the Environmental Law Institute and the climate judiciary project are doing more with less disruption. I just won’t get behind violence or endangerment at these events.

You can accuse me of whatever, I can take it, but I sincerely believe there is a need to win the hearts of people. If those people stood in front of the stage and screamed vs jumping up on it, I believe there is more sympathy today for them. Disagree with me on that all you want, I’ll respect your opinion. I’m not smart enough to figure out other ways to bring about climate change. Wish I was.

That's true, I didn't like the soup protest, because I wanted them to inconvenience someone who actually had some ability to influence relevant policy.

Like a US Senator, for example...

Nails it. Absolutely nails it.

[tw]1784063418800185588?s=46&t=o_-92Ldle66XHQBlJVUMFQ[/tw]

DWags wrote:Nails it. Absolutely nails it.

[tw]1784063418800185588?s=46&t=o_-92Ldle66XHQBlJVUMFQ[/tw]

See if you can ever get this out of your mind: When Trump is talking he either waves his hands like he's playing the accordion or he clenches his hands like he's jerking two guys off.

Nails it. Absolutely nails it.