Re: Israel war

by **Motown Spartan** Mon 15 Apr 2024 - 14:09

DWags wrote:Piggy backing on Travis Starbucks post.

Does doing this help the cause?

[tw]1779903922762830094?s=46&t=o_-92Ldle66XHQBlJVUMFQ[/tw]

No, it hurts it. It draws the wrong kind of attention to the cause and just annoys people.

by **DWags** Mon 15 Apr 2024 - 14:39

I’m thinking at some point during these stoppages an ambulance gets choked. Then someone dies. Do organizers get charged?

by TravelinMan Mon 15 Apr 2024 - 15:00

DWags wrote:I’m thinking at some point during these stoppages an ambulance gets choked. Then someone dies. Do organizers get charged?

Involuntary manslaughter, probably? Depends on specific state laws, of which, I know nothing of California.

by **Floyd Robertson** Mon 15 Apr 2024 - 16:15

Caravan was stopped en route to the Ambassador Bridge this afternoon.

by **DWags** Mon 15 Apr 2024 - 16:29

Floyd Robertson wrote:Caravan was stopped en route to the Ambassador Bridge this afternoon.

It will happen though Floyd. I see where people were getting out and walking to O’Hare airport in Chicago because they blocked the road getting into the airport

Are they sitting around saying, “hey I got a great idea, let’s disrupt traffic, that will get people to put pressure on congressional people in our favor”. Great! “Do we have any volunteers to go to the school board meeting and threaten to murder them tonight?” That should help too.

by **Floyd Robertson** Mon 15 Apr 2024 - 17:04

DWags wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Caravan was stopped en route to the Ambassador Bridge this afternoon.

It will happen though Floyd. I see where people were getting out and walking to O’Hare airport in Chicago because they blocked the road getting into the airport

Are they sitting around saying, “hey I got a great idea, let’s disrupt traffic, that will get people to put pressure on congressional people in our favor”. Great! “Do we have any volunteers to go to the school board meeting and threaten to murder them tonight?” That should help too.

Peaceful protest is great, attempting to shut down an international border not so much.

by AvgMSUJoe Mon 15 Apr 2024 - 20:29

What happened to occupying "wall street"... I didnt mind it when the loopy progressives where pissing off the bankers. Every couple years, they find something their echo chamber works them up for.

by TravelinMan Mon 15 Apr 2024 - 22:17

AvgMSUJoe wrote:What happened to occupying "wall street"... I didnt mind it when the loopy progressives where pissing off the bankers. Every couple years, they find something their echo chamber works them up for.

Ha ha! I haven’t thought of those dirty hippies in years. What a bunch of cucks they turned out to be. They’re all probably living in some cholera ridden tent city somewhere in California by now.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 16 Apr 2024 - 7:30

Floyd Robertson wrote:Caravan was stopped en route to the Ambassador Bridge this afternoon.

Was it protestors or immigrants?

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 16 Apr 2024 - 7:33

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

The Taliban offered up Bin Ladin on a platter in exchange for the US not invading. Bush should have taken that. The idea this is a war on terror was stupid when Bush first said it and is stupid now. (He wanted a war to get elected in 2004) It should have been a police action.

That is my opinion.

Which is different from what sovereign countries have justification to do.

However, for those who "buy into" the war on terror the US was justified in invading Afghanistan. Also, in shooting missiles at (suspected) locations of the leadership of various terrorists with the collateral damage which occurs. For those of us who don't buy into it the US is wrong to be doing this. It should have been a Seal Team action from the git go, and all further actions also should be just that.

The question of what any country has the justification to do is different from the question of what the smartest thing for them is to do.

BTW the article only says that Bin Ladin was in Pakistan most of the time. Where was he when he wasn't there?

I’m sorry I know that I yell at people that make ww2 references because they can think of anything better but alas,

For those who “buy into” anti semitism the holocaust was justified

Like what are you even talking about? I don’t care if they bought into something. They were wrong.

Take the L

Whatever, dude.

I'm trying to talk about what is justified when a country is attacked, you don't care.

by TravelinMan Tue 16 Apr 2024 - 9:12

Trapper Gus wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I’m sorry I know that I yell at people that make ww2 references because they can think of anything better but alas,

For those who “buy into” anti semitism the holocaust was justified

Like what are you even talking about? I don’t care if they bought into something. They were wrong.

Take the L

Whatever, dude.

I'm trying to talk about what is justified when a country is attacked, you don't care.

This again goes back to my finding it highly curious that people think there are "rules" to war.

I call this the "Fuck around and find out" diplomatic policy. It's kind of like walking up and punching Mike Tyson. He might ignore you. He might laugh at you. Or he might kill you.

In the immortal words of Taylor Swift, you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

I'll also quote Hitler (go ahead, flame away) "Winners don't need to explain anything."

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 16 Apr 2024 - 9:16

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Whatever, dude.

I'm trying to talk about what is justified when a country is attacked, you don't care.

This again goes back to my finding it highly curious that people think there are "rules" to war.

I call this the "Fuck around and find out" diplomatic policy. It's kind of like walking up and punching Mike Tyson. He might ignore you. He might laugh at you. Or he might kill you.

In the immortal words of Taylor Swift, you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

I'll also quote Hitler (go ahead, flame away) "Winners don't need to explain anything."

You are correct in that countries can, and have, done whatever they have the sovereign power to do.

The UN Charter includes respecting other nation's established borders, and we all can see that is violated regularly; however, it is a fig leaf which acknowledges the ideal or international rules.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 16 Apr 2024 - 9:48

AP wrote:The U.N. human rights office called on Israeli security forces to immediately end their active participation in and support for attacks by Jewish settlers on Palestinians in the occupied West Bank.

The statement Tuesday follows a wave of settler attacks on Palestinian towns and villages in the West Bank triggered by the killing of a 14-year-old Israeli boy in what authorities say was a militant attack.

by **DWags** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 8:44

Bruce Pearl

[tw]1780322254175244347?s=46&t=o_-92Ldle66XHQBlJVUMFQ[/tw]

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 9:01

Both Cameron and Germany’s Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock were in Israel on separate visits to meet with top officials on Wednesday. The two European countries, which are among Israel’s closest allies, have urged restraint. Cameron said “it’s clear the Israelis are making a decision to act” against Iran, but he hoped they would do so “in a way that is smart as well as tough and also does as little as possible to escalate this conflict.” He spoke after meeting with Israel’s President Isaac Herzog, whose office is mainly ceremonial.P wrote:Both Cameron and Germany’s Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock were in Israel on separate visits to meet with top officials on Wednesday. The two European countries, which are among Israel’s closest allies, have urged restraint.

Cameron said “it’s clear the Israelis are making a decision to act” against Iran, but he hoped they would do so “in a way that is smart as well as tough and also does as little as possible to escalate this conflict.” He spoke after meeting with Israel’s President Isaac Herzog, whose office is mainly ceremonial.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 9:59

HEATHER COX RICHARDSON wrote:In the leadup to the attack, Arab countries shared intelligence and radar tracking, opened their airspace while closing it to Iran, and even supplied forces to withstand Iran’s attack. According to David S. Cloud, Dov Lieber, Stephen Kalin, and Summer Said of the Wall Street Journal, in March 2022, top military officials from Israel and Arab countries met in Egypt at the invitation of U.S. Marine General Frank McKenzie, then the top U.S. commander in the region, to discuss coordination against Iran’s growing military capabilities.

That prospective coordination had never been tested, but the fact that Arab states stood alongside Israel against Iran highlights changing dynamics in the Middle East. In the aftermath of the attack, a source connected to the Saudi royal family charged Iran with instigating the Gaza war to stop normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. Hamas, the Houthis in Yemen, and Hezbollah in Lebanon are Iran’s proxies.

For all the bitchin about and name calling of Joe Biden this is why he is the best President we have had since FDR.

Without the diplomacy engineered and driven by Biden this defense of Israel doesn't happen. Israel is hit with some of these bombs and fires back in minutes to hours. An all-out hot war escalates in the Mideast.

Israel still will be doing something, sometime, but Biden stopped that from happening, bigger and faster, in the past when Iran bombed Israel, and united much of the Mideast, at least for 8 hours, against Iran.

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/april-16-2024

by **DWags** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 10:09

Trapper Gus wrote:
HEATHER COX RICHARDSON wrote:In the leadup to the attack, Arab countries shared intelligence and radar tracking, opened their airspace while closing it to Iran, and even supplied forces to withstand Iran’s attack. According to David S. Cloud, Dov Lieber, Stephen Kalin, and Summer Said of the Wall Street Journal, in March 2022, top military officials from Israel and Arab countries met in Egypt at the invitation of U.S. Marine General Frank McKenzie, then the top U.S. commander in the region, to discuss coordination against Iran’s growing military capabilities.

That prospective coordination had never been tested, but the fact that Arab states stood alongside Israel against Iran highlights changing dynamics in the Middle East. In the aftermath of the attack, a source connected to the Saudi royal family charged Iran with instigating the Gaza war to stop normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. Hamas, the Houthis in Yemen, and Hezbollah in Lebanon are Iran’s proxies.

For all the bitchin about and name calling of Joe Biden this is why he is the best President we have had since FDR.

Without the diplomacy engineered and driven by Biden this defense of Israel doesn't happen. Israel is hit with some of these bombs and fires back in minutes to hours. An all-out hot war escalates in the Mideast.

Israel still will be doing something, sometime, but Biden stopped that from happening, bigger and faster, in the past when Iran bombed Israel, and united much of the Mideast, at least for 8 hours, against Iran.

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/april-16-2024

Right on.

by **Cameron** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 15:09

Yes, everything is going spectacularly in the region, and Joe Biden deserves credit rather than blame for the state of things, which are uniformly positive.

What fucking world do you bootlickers live in?

by **Motown Spartan** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 15:21

Cameron wrote:Yes, everything is going spectacularly in the region, and Joe Biden deserves credit rather than blame for the state of things, which are uniformly positive.

What fucking world do you bootlickers live in?

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 15:34

Motown Spartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:Yes, everything is going spectacularly in the region, and Joe Biden deserves credit rather than blame for the state of things, which are uniformly positive.

What fucking world do you bootlickers live in?

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

He called him the best President since FDR, which is silly nonsense. It is something he’s said before and will say again, because he treats Biden as his perfect catholic hero just like a maga person does for Trump. It’s the very definition of bootlicker.

by **Cameron** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 15:39

Motown Spartan wrote:
Cameron wrote:Yes, everything is going spectacularly in the region, and Joe Biden deserves credit rather than blame for the state of things, which are uniformly positive.

What fucking world do you bootlickers live in?

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

No, it means exactly what I think it means. You may disagree with my assessment of its applicability to certain individuals, but I have a firm handle on its definition. Do you?

by **Motown Spartan** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 15:50

Cameron wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

No, it means exactly what I think it means. You may disagree with my assessment of its applicability to certain individuals, but I have a firm handle on its definition. Do you?

Yes I do. It’s not just someone who heaps praise on someone else. The praise is insincere and intended to gain favor.

Like Wormtongue in Lord of the Rings.

by TravelinMan Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 16:04

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

He called him the best President since FDR, which is silly nonsense. It is something he’s said before and will say again, because he treats Biden as his perfect catholic hero just like a maga person does for Trump. It’s the very definition of bootlicker.

It also implies FDR was a good president, which is laughable.

by **Motown Spartan** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 16:05

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

He called him the best President since FDR, which is silly nonsense. It is something he’s said before and will say again, because he treats Biden as his perfect catholic hero just like a maga person does for Trump. It’s the very definition of bootlicker.

No it’s not. Regardless, he keeps using it to describe anyone that supports Biden and refuses to capitulate to Cameron’s take that Biden could end this whole thing in a second by snapping his fingers.

by **Cameron** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 16:07

Trapper very much comports himself like someone trying desperately to gain Joe Biden's favor. Joe Biden being completely oblivious to his very existence doesn't seem particularly relevant to me. It is possible for someone to be both obsequious and sincere. And rather more pathetic, in my estimation.

by **Cameron** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 16:12

Motown Spartan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

He called him the best President since FDR, which is silly nonsense. It is something he’s said before and will say again, because he treats Biden as his perfect catholic hero just like a maga person does for Trump. It’s the very definition of bootlicker.

No it’s not. Regardless, he keeps using it to describe anyone that supports Biden and refuses to capitulate to Cameron’s take that Biden could end this whole thing in a second by snapping his fingers.

I use it to describe people who think Genocide Joe somehow deserves fawning praise for any part of his foreign policy vis a vis Israel.

If someone disagrees with me that Biden using the US's considerable leverage to moderate Israel's ongoing atrocities in Gaza would be successful >>> not a bootlicker.

If someone asserts that Genocide Joe is handling this perfectly and doing everything he possibly could be >>> bootlicker.

I can replace "bootlicker" with "neck deep in Genocide Joe's colon" if you'd prefer, but it's not quite as pithy.

by **DWags** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 16:14

Since FDR

Truman
Obama
Eisenhower
Johnson
Clinton
Biden
Reagan
H Dubya
Carter
Ford
George W
Nixon
Trump

I didn’t miss Kennedy. If you want to put him with Johnson that’s fine. If he’s stand alone it’s a tough rating.

Presidents ranked by character and honor since FDR
Carter
Eisenhower

Nobody else.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 16:17

DWags wrote:Since FDR

Truman
Obama
Eisenhower
Johnson
Clinton
Biden
Reagan
H Dubya
Carter
Ford
George W
Nixon
Trump

I didn’t miss Kennedy. If you want to put him with Johnson that’s fine. If he’s stand alone it’s a tough rating.

Presidents ranked by character and honor since FDR
Carter
Eisenhower

Nobody else.

Reagan is the worst president of all time.

Possibly exaggerating. But bottom 5 easily. A true monster.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 16:18

Significantly worse than Trump. Who was embarrassing more than anything.

by **Cameron** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 16:26

Cameron wrote:I can replace "bootlicker" with "neck deep in Genocide Joe's colon" if you'd prefer, but it's not quite as pithy.

Come to think of it, I have used "simp" before, and it does have a bit of a ring to it. I'm happy to make that change if it pleases the committee.

by **DWags** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 16:30

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Significantly worse than Trump. Who was embarrassing more than anything.

If you asked me to rank them on long term effect, I’d agree. As a rank while in office it’s a tougher rank. I had everything I could do to separate Nixon from what he accomplished while in office. He was such a pos. Escalated the war, then ended. Clean air and water acts. Endangered species. Deescalated ballistic and strategic missiles with Russia. Opened China. I don’t know. I have no problem with you shuffling this list around. I was considering while in office vs long term. But you have a legit point regarding Reagan.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 17:13

Cameron wrote:Yes, everything is going spectacularly in the region, and Joe Biden deserves credit rather than blame for the state of things, which are uniformly positive.

What fucking world do you bootlickers live in?

Joe Biden has thousands of issues on his plate, the war in the mideast is a few hundred of them.

He is the first President since probably Truman who understands what really drives the US economy and first since FDR to try to move it in a fundamentally positive direction.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 17:46

As to the mideast who would have thought that all those countries would cooperate to help protect Israel. If you don't see the brilliance of the diplomacy that pulled that together I don't know what to say.

Also Biden is diplomatically putting Netanyahu and his crew in a box. Israel is now beholden to a bunch of countries that Israel doesn't consider friends because they protected Israel. That was a big time move by Biden.

by TravelinMan Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 18:00

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
DWags wrote:Since FDR

Truman
Obama
Eisenhower
Johnson
Clinton
Biden
Reagan
H Dubya
Carter
Ford
George W
Nixon
Trump

I didn’t miss Kennedy. If you want to put him with Johnson that’s fine. If he’s stand alone it’s a tough rating.

Presidents ranked by character and honor since FDR
Carter
Eisenhower

Nobody else.

Reagan is the worst president of all time.

Possibly exaggerating. But bottom 5 easily. A true monster.

How many people did Reagan put into internment camps?

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 18:16

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Significantly worse than Trump. Who was embarrassing more than anything.

If you asked me to rank them on long term effect, I’d agree. As a rank while in office it’s a tougher rank. I had everything I could do to separate Nixon from what he accomplished while in office. He was such a pos. Escalated the war, then ended. Clean air and water acts. Endangered species. Deescalated ballistic and strategic missiles with Russia. Opened China. I don’t know. I have no problem with you shuffling this list around. I was considering while in office vs long term. But you have a legit point regarding Reagan.

Reagan, correctly, is ranked as the most transformational President since FDR. His transformation was highly negative for all but the top 10%, but mostly it was good for the very top.

Biden is the first President since Reagan who has been pushing the underlying concepts back towards the New Deal and the New Deal was what built this country.

This is why he is the best since FDR.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 18:20

TravelinMan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Reagan is the worst president of all time.

Possibly exaggerating. But bottom 5 easily. A true monster.

How many people did Reagan put into internment camps?

You mean other than the racism he used to win two elections?

by sεяεηιτλ Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 18:29

Cameron wrote:Trapper very much comports himself like someone trying desperately to gain Joe Biden's favor. Joe Biden being completely oblivious to his very existence doesn't seem particularly relevant to me. It is possible for someone to be both obsequious and sincere. And rather more pathetic, in my estimation.

Trapper is a self admitted bootlicker but let me just point out the irony of you calling out anyone else on this crap. You are among the worst personalities here in a multitude of ways, spazzy mc spazzerson

by **Motown Spartan** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 18:32

TravelinMan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Reagan is the worst president of all time.

Possibly exaggerating. But bottom 5 easily. A true monster.

How many people did Reagan put into internment camps?

Reagan ignored the AIDS epidemic and nearly 100,000 died while he asked the surgeon general to write a report about it.

1,862 people died from medical reasons that were in internment camps.

100,000 > 1,862

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 18:37

sεяεηιτλ wrote:
Cameron wrote:Trapper very much comports himself like someone trying desperately to gain Joe Biden's favor. Joe Biden being completely oblivious to his very existence doesn't seem particularly relevant to me. It is possible for someone to be both obsequious and sincere. And rather more pathetic, in my estimation.

Trapper is a self admitted bootlicker but let me just point out the irony of you calling out anyone else on this crap. You are among the worst personalities here in a multitude of ways, spazzy mc spazzerson

I am absolutely partisan regarding Joe Biden & Democratics, since in our political system it is a binary choice and for the last 44 years the Republicans have jumped the shark as far as the ideals this country was founded upon are concerned.

As for being a "bootlicker" that would depend on the definition, of which there have been a couple.

by sεяεηιτλ Wed 17 Apr 2024 - 18:51

Cameron wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

No it’s not. Regardless, he keeps using it to describe anyone that supports Biden and refuses to capitulate to Cameron’s take that Biden could end this whole thing in a second by snapping his fingers.

I use it to describe people who think Genocide Joe somehow deserves fawning praise for any part of his foreign policy vis a vis Israel.

If someone disagrees with me that Biden using the US's considerable leverage to moderate Israel's ongoing atrocities in Gaza would be successful >>> not a bootlicker.

If someone asserts that Genocide Joe is handling this perfectly and doing everything he possibly could be >>> bootlicker.

I can replace "bootlicker" with "neck deep in Genocide Joe's colon" if you'd prefer, but it's not quite as pithy.

see... gosh you are just terrible

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