Re: Israel war

by AvgMSUJoe 2024-04-17, 19:05

Motown Spartan wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

How many people did Reagan put into internment camps?

Reagan ignored the AIDS epidemic and nearly 100,000 died while he asked the surgeon general to write a report about it.

1,862 people died from medical reasons that were in internment camps.

100,000 > 1,862

Who the fuck knows in Central America???

by **Motown Spartan** 2024-04-18, 08:47

Zurn wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

Reagan ignored the AIDS epidemic and nearly 100,000 died while he asked the surgeon general to write a report about it.

1,862 people died from medical reasons that were in internment camps.

100,000 > 1,862

I'm just a neutral observer here but you hold Reagan responsible for AIDS deaths?

I hold Reagan responsible for treating it like a joke and allowing it to escalate out of control. Instead, he waited five years to do anything and mostly kept the reports away from the public.

So yeah, I hold him responsible because he could have directed the necessary resources to keep it under control. But, gay people were dying so Republicans were happy.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-18, 08:56

Motown Spartan wrote:
Zurn wrote:

I'm just a neutral observer here but you hold Reagan responsible for AIDS deaths?

I hold Reagan responsible for treating it like a joke and allowing it to escalate out of control. Instead, he waited five years to do anything and mostly kept the reports away from the public.

So yeah, I hold him responsible because he could have directed the necessary resources to keep it under control. But, gay people were dying so Republicans were happy.

Similar to Trump ending common sense measures to control the spread of covid once he found out that deaths were mostly happening in minority demographics.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-04-18, 08:56

Zurn wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

Reagan ignored the AIDS epidemic and nearly 100,000 died while he asked the surgeon general to write a report about it.

1,862 people died from medical reasons that were in internment camps.

100,000 > 1,862

I'm just a neutral observer here but you hold Reagan responsible for AIDS deaths?

Israel war - Page 5 200w.gif?cid=6c09b952bszdgd7fnsnl8y4xq4zv8d0fj3vl3vr7wlifcdbs&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w

by **Motown Spartan** 2024-04-18, 09:03

In 1987 Reagan also stated that morality and medicine would have the same affect in the AIDS.

1987 was 7 years after the first cases in the United States and that cuck did nothing except blame gay people.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-18, 09:09

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

How many people did Reagan put into internment camps?

You mean other than the racism he used to win two elections?

FDR rounded up Asian people and put them into CAMPS and you think Reagan was the racist?!? Congratulations. That is the single dumbest thing I think you've ever posted, bar none. And that truly is saying something.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-18, 09:50

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

You mean other than the racism he used to win two elections?

FDR rounded up Asian people and put them into CAMPS and you think Reagan was the racist?!? Congratulations. That is the single dumbest thing I think you've ever posted, bar none. And that truly is saying something.

Trump's about face on covid when he learned that it was killing minorities is well known. His constant racist remarks could fill volumes.

The US military was concerned regarding spying by Japanese agents who were of course, mostly of Japanese descent, at a time when Japan had the ability to invade the west coast, and actually did put agents and a scouting unit ashore.

There are some differences there.

Furthermore the order FDR signed simple turned the west coast into a military zone, it was lower level military officers who decided to intern people of Japonese descent in these areas. FDR never signed any order to do so.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-18, 09:56

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

FDR rounded up Asian people and put them into CAMPS and you think Reagan was the racist?!? Congratulations. That is the single dumbest thing I think you've ever posted, bar none. And that truly is saying something.

Trump's about face on covid when he learned that it was killing minorities is well known. His constant racist remarks could fill volumes.

The US military was concerned regarding spying by Japanese agents who were of course, mostly of Japanese descent, at a time when Japan had the ability to invade the west coast, and actually did put agents and a scouting unit ashore.

There are some differences there.

Furthermore the order FDR signed simple turned the west coast into a military zone, it was lower level military officers who decided to intern people of Japonese descent in these areas. FDR never signed any order to do so.

"Hey, Hitler never personally loaded anyone into an over - that was the SS who handled that." - Trapper Gus....(if he found out Hitler was a Democrat)

Jesus Christ, Trap. Your views on this are abhorrent. You really need to stop and think about what you're defending here.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-04-18, 10:02

Trapper you actually don’t need to defend internment camps in order to praise a Democrat. They were obviously wrong and obviously a stain on fdr. By itself it doesn’t necessarily make him a bad president, but the term bad is subjective of course and I could see how someone could think that it does make him bad (I don’t agree but it’s not the worst opinion I’ve read today and it’s not even noon)

It also doesn’t make him worse than Reagan who destroyed the middle class and led directly to many many of the problems that we face today.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-18, 10:06

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Trump's about face on covid when he learned that it was killing minorities is well known. His constant racist remarks could fill volumes.

The US military was concerned regarding spying by Japanese agents who were of course, mostly of Japanese descent, at a time when Japan had the ability to invade the west coast, and actually did put agents and a scouting unit ashore.

There are some differences there.

Furthermore the order FDR signed simple turned the west coast into a military zone, it was lower level military officers who decided to intern people of Japonese descent in these areas. FDR never signed any order to do so.

"Hey, Hitler never personally loaded anyone into an over - that was the SS who handled that." - Trapper Gus....(if he found out Hitler was a Democrat)

Jesus Christ, Trap. Your views on this are abhorrent. You really need to stop and think about what you're defending here.

FDR wasn't giving speeches demanding Japanese be rounded up and put in camps, while Hitler was, in speeches, demanding the elimination of Jews, and other non-Ariain(sp) peoples.

(Pretty close to Trump calling non white people "animals" who then, presumably do not have human rights and can be put in camps and killed)

BTW you have jumped into the internet rule that says if you bring Hitler into the argument you have lost. (Goodwin's Law)

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-18, 10:21

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Trapper you actually don’t need to defend internment camps in order to praise a Democrat. They were obviously wrong and obviously a stain on fdr. By itself it doesn’t necessarily make him a bad president, but the term bad is subjective of course and I could see how someone could think that it does make him bad (I don’t agree but it’s not the worst opinion I’ve read today and it’s not even noon)

It also doesn’t make him worse than Reagan who destroyed the middle class and led directly to many many of the problems that we face today.

Well I am saying that those camps were not ordered directly by FDR, which other posters are implying; and thus are not evidence of FDR's racial views one way or the other.

Beyond that, with the US military being concerned about Japan invading the west coast, I do not have the direct background to determine the need to separate Japanese Americans from the general population on the west coast, both to limit communication by possible spies, and for their own protection. It should have been handled much better, that is a given, but it wasn't an action which was 100% not justified, either.

We, today, have the hindsight of history and have forgotten the fear of invasion.

BTW I am pretty uncomfortable with the direction a discussion of FDR's performance as President has taken in this thread, and will say as the final thing in this thread that all Presidents make some mistakes, but those should be weighted against the good choices they make.

I think the intermittent camp thing is a stupid argument with regards to FDR's overall performance, and is often brought up by people who want to ignore the good things he did as a "gotcha".

by **GRR Spartan** 2024-04-18, 10:59

I think TravelinMan and Zurn are sitting in some office trolling websites. Might be one and the same.

Pot stirrers repeating the same alternate facts and gotcha’s, always counter. By now it might be one person overseeing and monitoring bot responses.

by **Motown Spartan** 2024-04-18, 11:09

To be fair, the word Japan or any reference to any ethnic group whatsoever does not appear anywhere in Order 9066.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-18, 12:28

Trapper Gus wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Trapper you actually don’t need to defend internment camps in order to praise a Democrat. They were obviously wrong and obviously a stain on fdr. By itself it doesn’t necessarily make him a bad president, but the term bad is subjective of course and I could see how someone could think that it does make him bad (I don’t agree but it’s not the worst opinion I’ve read today and it’s not even noon)

It also doesn’t make him worse than Reagan who destroyed the middle class and led directly to many many of the problems that we face today.

Well I am saying that those camps were not ordered directly by FDR, which other posters are implying; and thus are not evidence of FDR's racial views one way or the other.

Beyond that, with the US military being concerned about Japan invading the west coast, I do not have the direct background to determine the need to separate Japanese Americans from the general population on the west coast, both to limit communication by possible spies, and for their own protection. It should have been handled much better, that is a given, but it wasn't an action which was 100% not justified, either.

We, today, have the hindsight of history and have forgotten the fear of invasion.

BTW I am pretty uncomfortable with the direction a discussion of FDR's performance as President has taken in this thread, and will say as the final thing in this thread that all Presidents make some mistakes, but those should be weighted against the good choices they make.

I think the intermittent camp thing is a stupid argument with regards to FDR's overall performance, and is often brought up by people who want to ignore the good things he did as a "gotcha".

You're uncomfortable with the direction of the discussion because it clashes with your belief that Democrats are infallible. No single president did more to erode civil rights than FDR.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-18, 12:30

Motown Spartan wrote:To be fair, the word Japan or any reference to any ethnic group whatsoever does not appear anywhere in Order 9066.

"enemy aliens"

So yes, Japanese Americans were affected the most, but the order was vague enough that they could basically round up whomever they wanted. That's not better.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-18, 12:30

so have y'all changed your minds yet because, I gotta tell you, there is a wealth of persuasive arguments being made within the construct of the finest minds tSwill has to offer.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-18, 13:23

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Well I am saying that those camps were not ordered directly by FDR, which other posters are implying; and thus are not evidence of FDR's racial views one way or the other.

Beyond that, with the US military being concerned about Japan invading the west coast, I do not have the direct background to determine the need to separate Japanese Americans from the general population on the west coast, both to limit communication by possible spies, and for their own protection. It should have been handled much better, that is a given, but it wasn't an action which was 100% not justified, either.

We, today, have the hindsight of history and have forgotten the fear of invasion.

BTW I am pretty uncomfortable with the direction a discussion of FDR's performance as President has taken in this thread, and will say as the final thing in this thread that all Presidents make some mistakes, but those should be weighted against the good choices they make.

I think the intermittent camp thing is a stupid argument with regards to FDR's overall performance, and is often brought up by people who want to ignore the good things he did as a "gotcha".

You're uncomfortable with the direction of the discussion because it clashes with your belief that Democrats are infallible. No single president did more to erode civil rights than FDR.

No, because racism is a third rail on this board and I don't want to see bannings.

I would argue that the end of reconstruction by Hayes was more damaging to Civil Rights than anything FDR did. By the time FDR was elected the failures of US law as documented by CRT were systemic to the system.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-18, 13:26

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

You're uncomfortable with the direction of the discussion because it clashes with your belief that Democrats are infallible. No single president did more to erode civil rights than FDR.

No, because racism is a third rail on this board and I don't want to see bannings.

Yeah, thanks for looking out for me, pal. /s

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-18, 13:29

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

No, because racism is a third rail on this board and I don't want to see bannings.

Yeah, thanks for looking out for me, pal. /s

You are welcome.

PS read my edit to that post.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-18, 13:43

TravelinMan wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:To be fair, the word Japan or any reference to any ethnic group whatsoever does not appear anywhere in Order 9066.

"enemy aliens"

So yes, Japanese Americans were affected the most, but the order was vague enough that they could basically round up whomever they wanted. That's not better.

If the logic of the order is to be believed it is. Detaining parts of the population who may commit treason without regard to race makes more sense.

Moreover, "enemy aliens " is not in the section regarding what could be done in the "military sectors" but two sections later referring to DoJ responsibilities.

Due to how it was carried out it is unlikely there are many formal defenses of it, and plenty of people trying to show it was racist.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-04-18, 14:10

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Well I am saying that those camps were not ordered directly by FDR, which other posters are implying; and thus are not evidence of FDR's racial views one way or the other.

Beyond that, with the US military being concerned about Japan invading the west coast, I do not have the direct background to determine the need to separate Japanese Americans from the general population on the west coast, both to limit communication by possible spies, and for their own protection. It should have been handled much better, that is a given, but it wasn't an action which was 100% not justified, either.

We, today, have the hindsight of history and have forgotten the fear of invasion.

BTW I am pretty uncomfortable with the direction a discussion of FDR's performance as President has taken in this thread, and will say as the final thing in this thread that all Presidents make some mistakes, but those should be weighted against the good choices they make.

I think the intermittent camp thing is a stupid argument with regards to FDR's overall performance, and is often brought up by people who want to ignore the good things he did as a "gotcha".

You're uncomfortable with the direction of the discussion because it clashes with your belief that Democrats are infallible. No single president did more to erode civil rights than FDR.

That’s probably not right given all of the presidents that actively supported slavery.

by **DWags** 2024-04-18, 14:32

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Well I am saying that those camps were not ordered directly by FDR, which other posters are implying; and thus are not evidence of FDR's racial views one way or the other.

Beyond that, with the US military being concerned about Japan invading the west coast, I do not have the direct background to determine the need to separate Japanese Americans from the general population on the west coast, both to limit communication by possible spies, and for their own protection. It should have been handled much better, that is a given, but it wasn't an action which was 100% not justified, either.

We, today, have the hindsight of history and have forgotten the fear of invasion.

BTW I am pretty uncomfortable with the direction a discussion of FDR's performance as President has taken in this thread, and will say as the final thing in this thread that all Presidents make some mistakes, but those should be weighted against the good choices they make.

I think the intermittent camp thing is a stupid argument with regards to FDR's overall performance, and is often brought up by people who want to ignore the good things he did as a "gotcha".

You're uncomfortable with the direction of the discussion because it clashes with your belief that Democrats are infallible. No single president did more to erode civil rights than FDR.

I mean, we can go back to when we were in, or going to be in wars, acts passed under presidents were absolutely anti-civil rights. Were they needed? there's your debate. Don't just stop at FDR though. Look at all of the alien and seditions acts passed. Were they needed? My mom and dad used to tell me they couldn't get informaiton on my great aunts and uncles and grandpas during WWII because newspapers couldn't or wouldn't print ship locations where troops were etc. Needed? You tell me.

the internment camps were horrifying. Perhps the worst thing in America since slavery and the way we did and continue to treat African Americans. Were the reparations sufficient? Who knows. None of us or our families suffered in those camps.

FDR was president during two significant events that PROBABLY required the los of some civil rights. I am open to listening to your reasons why there shouldn't have been. But that's a big hurdle to explain if you ask me. Obviously FDR was as close to a dictator as we had by the 1940 election. He could have made life a ton worse for a ton of people. Sol I'd be interested in hearing whey you think civil rights, at the time, should not have been restricted. In an era of starvation, an added drought, and then total war it's tough not to say some feedoms have to be sacrificed.

by **Cameron** 2024-04-18, 14:36

[tw]1780689422167748767[/tw]

by Zurn 2024-04-18, 14:55

Motown Spartan wrote:

I hold Reagan responsible for treating it like a joke and allowing it to escalate out of control.

Tens of millions of people around the world have died from AIDS over many decades now, and you blame Reagan for it??? Crazy ....

by **Motown Spartan** 2024-04-18, 15:00

Zurn wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

I hold Reagan responsible for treating it like a joke and allowing it to escalate out of control.

Tens of millions of people around the world have died from AIDS over many decades now, and you blame Reagan for it??? Crazy .....

You’re free to read about the Reagan administration’s abhorrent response to the AIDS crisis, specifically in the United States. But I get you’re a lazy bigot and are happy about all the gays that died.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-18, 15:06

Motown Spartan wrote:
Zurn wrote:

I'm just a neutral observer here but you hold Reagan responsible for AIDS deaths?

I hold Reagan responsible for treating it like a joke and allowing it to escalate out of control.

not unlike how the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator and convicted rapist trivialized COVID and led to the death of hundreds of thousands of people.

I'm sure their deaths upsets the "pro-life" republican/libertarians.. I bet they are beside themselves in anger about it.

by **DWags** 2024-04-18, 15:33

Zurn wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

I hold Reagan responsible for treating it like a joke and allowing it to escalate out of control.

Tens of millions of people around the world have died from AIDS over many decades now, and you blame Reagan for it??? Crazy .....

RQA, I'm still waiting. No worries, this will be the last request. Thanks.

by **Cameron** 2024-04-18, 17:52

US vetoes widely supported UN resolution backing full UN membership for Palestine

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The United States vetoed a widely backed U.N. resolution on Thursday that would have paved the way for full United Nations membership for the state of Palestine.

The vote in the 15-member Security Council was 12 in favor, the United States opposed and two abstentions.

Why does Genocide Joe hate Palestine and Palestinians? Is it a racism thing or an Islamophobia thing? Either way, his bigotry is disgusting.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-18, 19:07

Cameron wrote:US vetoes widely supported UN resolution backing full UN membership for Palestine

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The United States vetoed a widely backed U.N. resolution on Thursday that would have paved the way for full United Nations membership for the state of Palestine.

The vote in the 15-member Security Council was 12 in favor, the United States opposed and two abstentions.

Why does Genocide Joe hate Palestine and Palestinians? Is it a racism thing or an Islamophobia thing? Either way, his bigotry is disgusting.

maybe he's an Islamo-Bigot-a-Phobe? Israel war - Page 5 2599972566

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-19, 08:08

Israel "maybe" launched glide bombs at Iranian targets

https://apnews.com/article/israel-iran-hamas-latest-04-19-2024-554e36a603a12f448f5cfa80c5c30bd6

by **Cameron** 2024-04-19, 09:25

[tw]1781156264208199807[/tw]

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-19, 09:39

Zurn wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: maybe he's an Islamo-Bigot-a-Phobe?

I've been told that's me or Trump.

as the old saying goes, 'you are the company you keep'.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-19, 09:42

Cameron wrote:[tw]1781156264208199807[/tw]

https://www.state.gov/briefings/department-press-briefing-april-18-2024/

The US State Department spokesperson denied that the US traded one for the other, yesterday...

by **Cameron** 2024-04-19, 09:49

And they certainly haven't demonstrated any willingness or proclivity to obfuscate and lie when it serves their needs, so I'm sure we can take that to the bank.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-19, 10:25

Cameron wrote:And they certainly haven't demonstrated any willingness or proclivity to obfuscate and lie when it serves their needs, so I'm sure we can take that to the bank.

We can say that about almost any source, dude.

They were pretty clear on this, and if reading their press release transcripts they are careful to try to say what they mean and go no further.

That doesn't mean the White House itself might not have made a deal, nor does it mean the WH made a deal.

We just have conflicting reports.

While you are questioning the State Department I am unlikely to believe that a reporter is any better.

by **DWags** 2024-04-19, 17:36

Gloves are off. Big hitters coming in. How is the left squaring this with the LGBTQ community? Wouldn’t they be instantly put to death by Hamas?

To me, the tentacles of the protests and counter protests are so much more interesting than when we took it to the streets during Vietnam and Nixon.

[tw]1781377902065369539?s=46&t=o_-92Ldle66XHQBlJVUMFQ[/tw]

by **Cameron** 2024-04-19, 18:46

One can be pro-Palestine without being pro-Hamas...

by sεяεηιτλ 2024-04-19, 20:54

Man you guys are such nancies.

Trap, be more careful with what you say. Concise too

Everyone else: no, trapper is not OK with genocide, that's not what he meant, relax

by sεяεηιτλ 2024-04-19, 20:54

Cameron wrote:One can be pro-Palestine without being pro-Hamas...

You are demonstrably both

by **Cameron** 2024-04-19, 20:57

sεяεηιτλ wrote:
Cameron wrote:One can be pro-Palestine without being pro-Hamas...

You are demonstrably both

Please quote the pro-Hamas posts I have made.

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