Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 14:35

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
xsanguine wrote:

It's probably the Michigan winters. Water getting in those cracks and then freezing, coupled with the peninsula aspect, is prolly what he's talking about I'd imagine.

I mean... when I was in Arizona... fantastic roads.
yeah, but you had to live in Arizona. Yikes. Not my scene.

I didn't mind it, actually enjoyed certain areas. Phoenix, Scottsdale, and Tempe were all nice. Too much police for me though.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 14:47

Heat Miser wrote:
DWags wrote:

I"d be surprised if it passed also. When it doesn't Snyder and the legislature, I'm fairly certain, will take it out on public education or something like that. They'll be paid for. Either by this tax or by robbing peter to pay paul and cutting public education and creating the need for higher tuition. I don't know, just have a feeling.

I don't think Toll roads work on a pennisula, maybe they do. I would love for somebody to tell me what's fair and I'll pay it. But I don't think I've read what's fair that I've really agreed with. Bottom line is we'll fork over money some way, and if we need too, that's fine. These roads just suck.

What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".

It's funny (not really), but when the idea of tolls was originally sold, they were supposed to stop when the bonds that paid for the building of the roads were paid off. I've yet to see that happen. I saw they did it in Atlanta, but I've never seen it in FL. I think that's because, like with the lottery & education, the new funds end up being replacement funds instead of additional funds. The budget for the items stays the same & the extra money ends up taking the place of funds siphoned off to other areas.

So I wouldn't bet on this new bill magically fixing the roads in MI, assuming it passes, but you never know, maybe the government with get something right for once. Blind squirrel, right?

Texas has toll by photograph roads too. Takes about two months for the charges to get to you, but they always do. This is from experience using a rental. Operator owned cars gets charged much quicker I would assume.

by **InTenSity** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 14:56

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:

What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".

It's funny (not really), but when the idea of tolls was originally sold, they were supposed to stop when the bonds that paid for the building of the roads were paid off. I've yet to see that happen. I saw they did it in Atlanta, but I've never seen it in FL. I think that's because, like with the lottery & education, the new funds end up being replacement funds instead of additional funds. The budget for the items stays the same & the extra money ends up taking the place of funds siphoned off to other areas.

So I wouldn't bet on this new bill magically fixing the roads in MI, assuming it passes, but you never know, maybe the government with get something right for once. Blind squirrel, right?

Texas has toll by photograph roads too. Takes about two months for the charges to get to you, but they always do. This is from experience using a rental. Operator owned cars gets charged much quicker I would assume.

I have Sunpass, which is instant. Tolls are almost double to be tolled by plate. A Sunpass costs either $4.99 for one that is a bit more permanent, and I think either $19.99 or $24.99 for a transferable pass.

by **xsanguine** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 14:59

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
xsanguine wrote:

It's probably the Michigan winters. Water getting in those cracks and then freezing, coupled with the peninsula aspect, is prolly what he's talking about I'd imagine.

I mean... when I was in Arizona... fantastic roads.
yeah, but you had to live in Arizona. Yikes. Not my scene.

Oh no, I never lived in Arizona... I considered it but never pulled the trigger. I would never be able to do it... I just can't do that kind of heat. I visited there about 10 years ago and I just recall the roads being perfect everywhere I went.

gHost is the desert dawg.

by **xsanguine** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:00

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:yeah, but you had to live in Arizona. Yikes. Not my scene.

I didn't mind it, actually enjoyed certain areas. Phoenix, Scottsdale, and Tempe were all nice. Too much police for me though.

I did like 88 degree nights... swimming at night in May was awesome.

by **MiamiSpartan** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:03

InTenSity wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:

What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".

It's funny (not really), but when the idea of tolls was originally sold, they were supposed to stop when the bonds that paid for the building of the roads were paid off. I've yet to see that happen. I saw they did it in Atlanta, but I've never seen it in FL. I think that's because, like with the lottery & education, the new funds end up being replacement funds instead of additional funds. The budget for the items stays the same & the extra money ends up taking the place of funds siphoned off to other areas.

So I wouldn't bet on this new bill magically fixing the roads in MI, assuming it passes, but you never know, maybe the government with get something right for once. Blind squirrel, right?
I thought that MDX has to have construction going on in order to have tolls. That is why the Palmetto has never been completed and there is a revolving 5 year plan of what roads are getting fixed. All I know is that even before they start construction, they make sure that the tolls get in there first. Now the Dolphin has tolls running East and West, which is kind of bullshit. I'm not even sure you can drive anywhere in Miami without going through a toll anymore. Now the only way to get anywhere south of the Dolphin to downtown, without a toll is using US1.
/endrant /sorryforhijack

For now, you can still take the Palmetto and I-75 toll Free (unless you're crossing over to Naples), but they've started work on Express lanes to cover the Palmetto, as well as I-75 all the way up to Sunrise (only 4 years till it's all done!). So that will be like I-95, which you CAN drive for free if you want to sit in heavier traffic. Otherwise, as Heat pointed out, you can pay $8 (sometimes even more) to go a few miles. That variable pricing, where the cost of the Express lanes goes up as traffic increases, is really a smart way to exploit people's frustration over traffic.

by **InTenSity** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:13

MiamiSpartan wrote:
InTenSity wrote:
I thought that MDX has to have construction going on in order to have tolls. That is why the Palmetto has never been completed and there is a revolving 5 year plan of what roads are getting fixed. All I know is that even before they start construction, they make sure that the tolls get in there first. Now the Dolphin has tolls running East and West, which is kind of bullshit. I'm not even sure you can drive anywhere in Miami without going through a toll anymore. Now the only way to get anywhere south of the Dolphin to downtown, without a toll is using US1.
/endrant /sorryforhijack
For now, you can still take the Palmetto and I-75 toll Free (unless you're crossing over to Naples), but they've started work on Express lanes to cover the Palmetto, as well as I-75 all the way up to Sunrise (only 4 years till it's all done!). So that will be like I-95, which you CAN drive for free if you want to sit in heavier traffic. Otherwise, as Heat pointed out, you can pay $8 (sometimes even more) to go a few miles. That variable pricing, where the cost of the Express lanes goes up as traffic increases, is really a smart way to exploit people's frustration over traffic.

I rarely take 95, I'm not really ever in that area, except a few times a year, and the few times I've gone through there, I take the express lanes because they have been about $0.25. I don't understand the I-75 express lanes though, unless that is going to have exits all through Miramar, Pembroke and Weston, I just can't believe that many people use the road. As it is now, the couple of times I've gone that way around 6, it isn't quite as bad as the Kendall area. I live in between the Shula and the Turnpike, so I pay just about every time I decide to go anywhere.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:20

xsanguine wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

I've been off the road for 2 years or so now but this "Michigan has the worst roads" thing has been around longer than that. It's just not so. As X says take a trip to New Jersey, Connecticut and New York then come tell me about our roads.

I'd vote for a gas/diesel or miles driven tax, let the users pay for the roads. Quit taking road money out for mass transit, bike paths and other bullshit. If people want those things, again let the users pay.

Initially I wanted to disagree with this just due to my own personal philosophy.

But it really does make the most sense. I'm not a big fan of taxes but if you're going to tax... try as hard as possible to put the tax where it'll affect those using them the most.

It doesn't make sense to raise Bob's taxes (or yours if you're referring to biking/walking as being off the roads) when Bob is doing the earth and his health some good by riding a bike to work.

while I agree with this to an extent, I'm very much an "it takes a village" kind of guy. And, yeah, I rarely drive anywhere but it's not fair to expect the delivery trucks who deliver my beer, vinyl records, etc to stores to absorb the cost associated with it.

And, yes, I understand that they pass those expenses down to the consumer - but I'm okay with helping fund improvements to my community and state that will enhance all of our lives.

I'm just voting "NO" on proposal 1 because the politicians need to do their jobs and be held accountable for their decisions.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:21

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:yeah, but you had to live in Arizona. Yikes. Not my scene.

I didn't mind it, actually enjoyed certain areas. Phoenix, Scottsdale, and Tempe were all nice. Too much police for me though.

I'm sure there are okay areas (like Flagstaff).. and it's nice to visit. I don't dig the heat, though.

by **DWags** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:22

Heat Miser wrote:
DWags wrote:

I"d be surprised if it passed also. When it doesn't Snyder and the legislature, I'm fairly certain, will take it out on public education or something like that. They'll be paid for. Either by this tax or by robbing peter to pay paul and cutting public education and creating the need for higher tuition. I don't know, just have a feeling.

I don't think Toll roads work on a pennisula, maybe they do. I would love for somebody to tell me what's fair and I'll pay it. But I don't think I've read what's fair that I've really agreed with. Bottom line is we'll fork over money some way, and if we need too, that's fine. These roads just suck.

What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".

:

Does Florida have a state income tax like Michigan? I have no idea why they have tolls in Florida. Too lazy to dig it up. However, like I say, something needs to be done here. If we don't, Snyder will take it from somewhere. Guaranteed. Whatever it is, we have to feel a bit of pain here. Something has to be done.

by **InTenSity** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:25

DWags wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:

What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".

:

Does Florida have a state income tax like Michigan? I have no idea why they have tolls in Florida. Too lazy to dig it up. However, like I say, something needs to be done here. If we don't, Snyder will take it from somewhere. Guaranteed. Whatever it is, we have to feel a bit of pain here. Something has to be done.

Florida doesn't have state income tax, but I can't get a tax deduction for using tolls.

by **DWags** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:29

InTenSity wrote:
DWags wrote:

Does Florida have a state income tax like Michigan? I have no idea why they have tolls in Florida. Too lazy to dig it up. However, like I say, something needs to be done here. If we don't, Snyder will take it from somewhere. Guaranteed. Whatever it is, we have to feel a bit of pain here. Something has to be done.
Florida doesn't have state income tax, but I can't get a tax deduction for using tolls.

How many gallons a year do you use vs. how much in tolls? If you use 1000 gallons a year at a taxed rate of 10 cents a gallon is that like 100 bucks? vs what you pay in tolls. I wonder what would be cheaper?

by **InTenSity** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:33

DWags wrote:
InTenSity wrote:
Florida doesn't have state income tax, but I can't get a tax deduction for using tolls.

How many gallons a year do you use vs. how much in tolls? If you use 1000 gallons a year at a taxed rate of 10 cents a gallon is that like 100 bucks? vs what you pay in tolls. I wonder what would be cheaper?

I was told there would be no math!!!
The car I'm driving now holds about 12 gallons, I fill up once a week/10 days, so lets say roughly 600 gallons a year. I'm paying about $650 a year in tolls, on one car, so that seems to be a little over $1 a gallon. The other car is probably about 20 gallons week/10 days so maybe 1000 gallons a year, and about the same in tolls. So about $0.65 a gallon. They average out around $0.80 a year/gallon in fees (republican for taxes).

by **Heat Miser** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:40

DWags wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:
DWags wrote:

I"d be surprised if it passed also. When it doesn't Snyder and the legislature, I'm fairly certain, will take it out on public education or something like that. They'll be paid for. Either by this tax or by robbing peter to pay paul and cutting public education and creating the need for higher tuition. I don't know, just have a feeling.

I don't think Toll roads work on a pennisula, maybe they do. I would love for somebody to tell me what's fair and I'll pay it. But I don't think I've read what's fair that I've really agreed with. Bottom line is we'll fork over money some way, and if we need too, that's fine. These roads just suck.

What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".

:

Does Florida have a state income tax like Michigan? I have no idea why they have tolls in Florida. Too lazy to dig it up. However, like I say, something needs to be done here. If we don't, Snyder will take it from somewhere. Guaranteed. Whatever it is, we have to feel a bit of pain here. Something has to be done.

As noted above, no state income tax, but sales tax is 7% in Miami & property taxes and gas prices are fairly high. On the other hand, nobody even knows what a pothole is here because they don't exist.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 15:45

Heat Miser wrote:
DWags wrote:

Does Florida have a state income tax like Michigan? I have no idea why they have tolls in Florida. Too lazy to dig it up. However, like I say, something needs to be done here. If we don't, Snyder will take it from somewhere. Guaranteed. Whatever it is, we have to feel a bit of pain here. Something has to be done.

As noted above, no state income tax, but sales tax is 7% in Miami & property taxes and gas prices are fairly high. On the other hand, nobody even knows what a pothole is here because they don't exist.

but you live in Florida.. right?

by **Heat Miser** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 16:01

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:
DWags wrote:

Does Florida have a state income tax like Michigan? I have no idea why they have tolls in Florida. Too lazy to dig it up. However, like I say, something needs to be done here. If we don't, Snyder will take it from somewhere. Guaranteed. Whatever it is, we have to feel a bit of pain here. Something has to be done.

As noted above, no state income tax, but sales tax is 7% in Miami & property taxes and gas prices are fairly high. On the other hand, nobody even knows what a pothole is here because they don't exist.
but you live in Florida.. right?

Of course. Almost 25 years now. Nobody ever said paradise wasn't expensive. Doesn't mean I don't like to bitch about it every now & then.

by **Floyd Robertson** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 16:05

steveschneider wrote:How are the roads in Michigan?

Michigan should just open up some toll booths and pay for the roads.

I generally like the idea, but I'm not sure it would work. Michigan is kind of locked in, meaning nobody drives through Michigan to get somewhere else. The Ohio turnpike works because most of the traffic, I'm guessing, is people traveling through it as fast as they can to get the hell back out of it.

I can't see Michiganders with cottages up north or on Lake Michigan being in favor of tolls for I-75 or I-96.

Got to do something about the weight limits.

by **MiamiSpartan** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 16:17

InTenSity wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
For now, you can still take the Palmetto and I-75 toll Free (unless you're crossing over to Naples), but they've started work on Express lanes to cover the Palmetto, as well as I-75 all the way up to Sunrise (only 4 years till it's all done!). So that will be like I-95, which you CAN drive for free if you want to sit in heavier traffic. Otherwise, as Heat pointed out, you can pay $8 (sometimes even more) to go a few miles. That variable pricing, where the cost of the Express lanes goes up as traffic increases, is really a smart way to exploit people's frustration over traffic.

I rarely take 95, I'm not really ever in that area, except a few times a year, and the few times I've gone through there, I take the express lanes because they have been about $0.25. I don't understand the I-75 express lanes though, unless that is going to have exits all through Miramar, Pembroke and Weston, I just can't believe that many people use the road. As it is now, the couple of times I've gone that way around 6, it isn't quite as bad as the Kendall area. I live in between the Shula and the Turnpike, so I pay just about every time I decide to go anywhere.

They are still going to have exits off the 75 express lanes at most of the regular exists (maybe even all of them). So that's one big difference from how they have 95.

You're right, it's not all that crowded on 75, and certainly nothing like a lot of other highways. It will slow up sometimes, but the only place that it consistently slows down to a crawl is Southbound in the mornings, since most people are exiting onto the Palmetto, causing a little bit of a bottleneck (but about a year ago, they expanded that exit from one late to two lanes, so it's much better than it was). But it's one of the least crowded stretches of highway in all of Dade and Broward. However, if you've heard about that new super mall they want to build that will be bigger than the Mall of America in Minnesota, that will change everything. It's supposed to be right off 75 and the Turnpike, but that was just announced a few weeks ago, and they've been planning the express lanes for a year or more.

by **Heat Miser** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 16:22

Floyd Robertson wrote:
steveschneider wrote:How are the roads in Michigan?

Michigan should just open up some toll booths and pay for the roads.

I generally like the idea, but I'm not sure it would work. Michigan is kind of locked in, meaning nobody drives through Michigan to get somewhere else. The Ohio turnpike works because most of the traffic, I'm guessing, is people traveling through it as fast as they can to get the hell back out of it.

I can't see Michiganders with cottages up north or on Lake Michigan being in favor of tolls for I-75 or I-96.

Got to do something about the weight limits.

Put a toll on 94 by the airport. Catch all the airport traffic + 100k Walverines 7 times a year. Put one on 696 somewhere. Put one on M-59 east of 75. Another somewhere on 75 South of 59. Start off at 25 cents. Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1? - Page 2 2599972566

Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1? - Page 2 2599972566

Some other tinfoil hat/big brother shit that FL does:

1. You get cheaper tolls if you buy a SunPass transponder. You set up an account & attach a credit card. Now they know where, when & how often you drive. I wonder what could be done with that type of info.

2. You're account automagically charges your credit card when the balance drops below $10. Say there are 5 million accounts. That's $50 million the government gets to sit on & make interest in perpetuity. Nice revenue stream.

by Guest Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 16:25

Floyd Robertson wrote:Got to do something about the weight limits.

This would be a big help, Michigan allows entirely too much weight on trucks.

by **DWags** Mon 13 Apr 2015 - 22:52

InTenSity wrote:
DWags wrote:

How many gallons a year do you use vs. how much in tolls? If you use 1000 gallons a year at a taxed rate of 10 cents a gallon is that like 100 bucks? vs what you pay in tolls. I wonder what would be cheaper?
I was told there would be no math!!!
The car I'm driving now holds about 12 gallons, I fill up once a week/10 days, so lets say roughly 600 gallons a year. I'm paying about $650 a year in tolls, on one car, so that seems to be a little over $1 a gallon. The other car is probably about 20 gallons week/10 days so maybe 1000 gallons a year, and about the same in tolls. So about $0.65 a gallon. They average out around $0.80 a year/gallon in fees (republican for taxes).

If they dropped the tolls and put 10 cents a gallon tax on, you'd pay less. But try putting 10 cents a gallon tax on gads.

by **Heat Miser** Tue 14 Apr 2015 - 0:38

DWags wrote:
InTenSity wrote:
DWags wrote:

How many gallons a year do you use vs. how much in tolls? If you use 1000 gallons a year at a taxed rate of 10 cents a gallon is that like 100 bucks? vs what you pay in tolls. I wonder what would be cheaper?
I was told there would be no math!!!
The car I'm driving now holds about 12 gallons, I fill up once a week/10 days, so lets say roughly 600 gallons a year. I'm paying about $650 a year in tolls, on one car, so that seems to be a little over $1 a gallon. The other car is probably about 20 gallons week/10 days so maybe 1000 gallons a year, and about the same in tolls. So about $0.65 a gallon. They average out around $0.80 a year/gallon in fees (republican for taxes).

If they dropped the tolls and put 10 cents a gallon tax on, you'd pay less. But try putting 10 cents a gallon tax on gads.

There's already an extra 10 cent per gallon tax in Dade county...plus the tolls. Why eliminate one when you're already getting both? Especially when toll collection doesn't require humans any more.

by **CORNER BLITZ** Tue 14 Apr 2015 - 2:19

So what's proposal 1 in Florida?

by **MiamiSpartan** Tue 14 Apr 2015 - 7:12

Heat Miser wrote:
DWags wrote:

If they dropped the tolls and put 10 cents a gallon tax on, you'd pay less. But try putting 10 cents a gallon tax on gads.

There's already an extra 10 cent per gallon tax in Dade county...plus the tolls. Why eliminate one when you're already getting both? Especially when toll collection doesn't require humans any more.

Is there everywhere else, too? Because Broward ususally has the same or higher gas prices.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Tue 14 Apr 2015 - 7:18

Heat Miser wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
but you live in Florida.. right?

Of course. Almost 25 years now. Nobody ever said paradise wasn't expensive. Doesn't mean I don't like to bitch about it every now & then.

yikes. I'm glad you enjoy it.

by **steveschneider** Tue 14 Apr 2015 - 15:29

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
InTenSity wrote:

Yes, its been a great plan.

1)Say that education doesn't work. Take money from the school system and 'privatize' it. Now with less money into education, complain that education doesn't work. Show that private, for profit schools with smaller classes in affluential area's work better than public, tax sucking money pits in run down area's and huge classes are a failure.
2)Make sure that your buddies are the ones running hte for profit schools
3)Profit
4)Get out before everyone realizes its a scam and hurt the children.

Want to get depressed? Set aside some time one night to watch this.

Made it through the first hour of this last night...pretty good program and you are correct, that was fucking depressing.

by Guest Mon 20 Apr 2015 - 4:45

LANSING — A new 60-second ad supporting the Proposal 1 road funding plan has several exaggerated claims, a Free Press analysis found.

The ad is twice as long as previous TV ads that have aired either for or against Proposal 1. Roger Martin, a spokesman for Safe Roads Yes, said a longer ad was needed to explain the proposal — which includes raising the state sales tax to 7% from 6% — in more detail.

The special election is May 5.

The Free Press fact-checked claims made in the ad, titled "Does." Similar claims were made in the second-most-recent Safe Roads Yes ad, titled "Guarantees and Warranties."

New Prop 1 ad overstates the case about lousy roads

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon 20 Apr 2015 - 8:06

LooseGoose wrote:
LANSING — A new 60-second ad supporting the Proposal 1 road funding plan has several exaggerated claims, a Free Press analysis found.

The ad is twice as long as previous TV ads that have aired either for or against Proposal 1. Roger Martin, a spokesman for Safe Roads Yes, said a longer ad was needed to explain the proposal — which includes raising the state sales tax to 7% from 6% — in more detail.

The special election is May 5.

The Free Press fact-checked claims made in the ad, titled "Does." Similar claims were made in the second-most-recent Safe Roads Yes ad, titled "Guarantees and Warranties."

New Prop 1 ad overstates the case about lousy roads

I can't wait to vote "No" on this proposal.

by **kingstonlake** Mon 20 Apr 2015 - 8:37

Put a "toll" on every gallon of H2O that leaves the great lakes. Then send us a check just like Alaska does for its citizens with the permanent fund. Water is our "oil".

by **The_Dude** Mon 20 Apr 2015 - 11:27

kingstonlake wrote:Put a "toll" on every gallon of H2O that leaves the great lakes. Then send us a check just like Alaska does for its citizens with the permanent fund. Water is our "oil".

by **Floyd Robertson** Tue 5 May 2015 - 20:49

Prop 1 is going down 3:1, surprising no one.

by **DWags** Tue 5 May 2015 - 21:13

I voted yes.

by **Turtleneck** Tue 5 May 2015 - 21:25

DWags wrote:I voted yes.

Didn't you once proclaim that you are a libertarian?

by **xsanguine** Tue 5 May 2015 - 21:27

Turtleneck wrote:
DWags wrote:I voted yes.

Didn't you once proclaim that you are a libertarian?

Careful... Roc doesn't like this.

Only applying Democrat or Republican viewpoints to any discussion is permissible. Everything else must go without mention.

by **Turtleneck** Tue 5 May 2015 - 23:00

xsanguine wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

Didn't you once proclaim that you are a libertarian?

Careful... Roc doesn't like this.

Only applying Democrat or Republican viewpoints to any discussion is permissible. Everything else must go without mention.

Add Roc to the "hates freedom" list.

by **Cameron** Wed 6 May 2015 - 0:04

DWags wrote:I voted yes.

Why? Increasing sales tax amounts to shifting tax burden from rich to poor.

Plus, if Snyder supports it, it's probably a terrible idea.

by **DWags** Wed 6 May 2015 - 0:05

Cameron wrote:
DWags wrote:I voted yes.

Why?

Selfish reasons.

by **Cameron** Wed 6 May 2015 - 0:06

DWags wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Why?

Selfish reasons.

Such as?

by **DWags** Wed 6 May 2015 - 0:17

Cameron wrote:
DWags wrote:

Selfish reasons.

Such as?

Sometimes I'm selfish. I don't know how else to explain that. Wish I wasn't but sometimes I am.

by **Cameron** Wed 6 May 2015 - 0:19

DWags wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Such as?

Sometimes I'm selfish. I don't know how else to explain that. Wish I wasn't but sometimes I am.

How does paying more sales tax benefit you?

Justify your stupid vote.

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