One and Done Factories Duke and Kentucky - How come Coach K gets a pass? Pt 2

Giant Moose wrote:I much prefer our players to graduate as role players, go to a different college to finish their playing career, and come back and kiss the Spartan logo while playing for this other college. That's much better than having one-and-dones taking up important roster spots.

Man was Byrd a massive miss. All things considered, that 2010 class was probably the worst recent class Izzo has had by a pretty solid margin.

HT wrote:

Giant Moose wrote:I much prefer our players to graduate as role players, go to a different college to finish their playing career, and come back and kiss the Spartan logo while playing for this other college. That's much better than having one-and-dones taking up important roster spots.

Man was Byrd a massive miss.

maybe.. but he'll have a Masters degree before anyone else on the team.

Turtleneck wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Enlighten me again, how is a one and done different at Duke than it is at Kentucky? It's something like because they can stay and graduate if they chose where Cal encourages them to leave?

Honestly, I have no problem with the one and done model. Kentucky provided the most entertaining games I've watched all season: Ken vs. LSU, Ken vs. ND and Ken vs. Wisconsin were all top notch quality contests. Cal teaches good d, team ball, his kids carry a 3.0 and you never see his team flopping or trying to win the game at the free throw line.

The one-and-done model is not the problem. It is forcing kids out the door that it is the problem. We have pissed all over the concept of the student-athlete. I get that, and everybody is responsible. MSU, Duke, UK, the NCAA, and even the fans (because we get what we demand). But UK goes one step further....

“I watched this kid play and I couldn’t believe his fight and the fire he had and his ability to play to win. I kept watching him based on one thing: his size. Just one thing held me back from going all out was his size,” Calipari said. “But I had him come down to Kentucky and I said to him: ‘If you don’t have pro aspirations, do not come here.’
“And the second thing is: ‘If you think you’re going to be here four years, don’t you come here.’

What's wrong with Cal's quote? At least he's honest and up front. For a kid that is going to college to play basketball not school seems like that's exactly what the kid would want to here. If the kid wants to play school he can go some where else.

steveschneider wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:


The one-and-done model is not the problem. It is forcing kids out the door that it is the problem. We have pissed all over the concept of the student-athlete. I get that, and everybody is responsible. MSU, Duke, UK, the NCAA, and even the fans (because we get what we demand). But UK goes one step further....

What's wrong with Cal's quote? At least he's honest and up front. For a kid that is going to college to play basketball not school seems like that's exactly what the kid would want to here. If the kid wants to play school he can go some where else.

I took it as this. If you come to UK and you don't make the pros in 3 years, most likely we'll show you out the door.

I get the whole "at least Cal is transparent" aspect. You have a point. As I said, the concept of the student-athlete is a myth. The reality is that today's participants in revenue sports are more athlete than student-athlete. We all get that. We all know that. We are part of the problem.

At the same time, the purpose of UK or any college or university is not to train basketball players. It is to educate people. Basically Cal is telling his recruits we do not offer degrees to basketball players; that UK is not a place where you are even going to be allowed to take four years to earn a degree if you decide you want one. That is out of bounds. The administration at UK should be ashamed. The NCAA should be ashamed. Cal should be ashamed. I will be honest and say that Cal cannot take this approach without others letting it happen. It is one thing to shuffle one-and-done players in and out of your program. That is the nature of the beast. It is another to tell a kid to go somewhere else if he wants to attend your university to play basketball and earn a degree. Sure, these kids do go to UK for academics. But it sends the wrong message about the purpose of going to college. On top of all of that, Cal does these  kids no favors while they are at UK. The stories that broke about how they do not watch film tell us he does not even get them NBA ready. He just rolls a ball out and says go play basketball. He was clueless against ND in the E8 but his talent saved him. He was clueless against Wisconsin but his talent could not save him in that game. Cal is a fraud on and off the court. Just like UMass, just like Memphis, it will catch up with him at UK.

With that said, I am done with this topic. The conversation just goes in a circle.

Turtleneck wrote:I get the whole "at least Cal is transparent" aspect. You have a point. As I said, the concept of the student-athlete is a myth. The reality is that today's participants in revenue sports are more athlete than student-athlete. We all get that. We all know that. We are part of the problem.

At the same time, the purpose of UK or any college or university is not to train basketball players. It is to educate people. Basically Cal is telling his recruits we do not offer degrees to basketball players; that UK is not a place where you are even going to be allowed to take four years to earn a degree if you decide you want one. That is out of bounds. The administration at UK should be ashamed. The NCAA should be ashamed. Cal should be ashamed. I will be honest and say that Cal cannot take this approach without others letting it happen. It is one thing to shuffle one-and-done players in and out of your program. That is the nature of the beast. It is another to tell a kid to go somewhere else if he wants to attend your university to play basketball and earn a degree. Sure, these kids do go to UK for academics. But it sends the wrong message about the purpose of going to college. On top of all of that, Cal does these  kids no favors while they are at UK. The stories that broke about how they do not watch film tell us he does not even get them NBA ready. He just rolls a ball out and says go play basketball. He was clueless against ND in the E8 but his talent saved him. He was clueless against Wisconsin but his talent could not save him in that game. Cal is a fraud on and off the court. Just like UMass, just like Memphis, it will catch up with him at UK.

With that said, I am done with this topic. The conversation just goes in a circle.

I think the healthiest approach to it all is to just view the sports teams on campuses as separate entities (d1 sports teams) that carry the schools name.

For instance, when Ohio State was in the championship game vs. u of Oregon the president of the school said to all the students that classes or exams missed would not be excused.

I do think the student athlete model does exist, but it's typically the walk ons and players at the end of the bench that represent it. After that it's just a d1 league.

I wonder if people who are disappointed in the lost virtue of major college athletics would be surprised to know that the Easter bunny isn't real..

I'm going to make this super simple for some of you. Turtleneck's point is valid but let me simplify it.

Cal cheats. You can't claim or prove otherwise. It is known, he has been caught, he has a history.

Izzo does not. You can't claim or prove otherwise outside of the farce of the Carlos Valentine violation. This is also widely known and anyone in the know will and has said the same.

Therefore......CHEATING gives one school/team a below board advantage over the other school/team that DOESN'T CHEAT. Therefore....it makes sense (if you think REALLY hard about it) why a MSU fan would not like Calipari.

Is that really that fucking hard to grasp?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I wonder if people who are disappointed in the lost virtue of major college athletics would be surprised to know that the Easter bunny isn't real..

I wonder if people who are disappointed in the lost virtue of American politics would be surprised to know the party they always defend is, pragmatically speaking, the same as the party they always challenge?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm going to make this super simple for some of you. Turtleneck's point is valid but let me simplify it.

Cal cheats. You can't claim or prove otherwise. It is known, he has been caught, he has a history.

Izzo does not. You can't claim or prove otherwise outside of the farce of the Carlos Valentine violation. This is also widely known and anyone in the know will and has said the same.

Therefore......CHEATING gives one school/team a below board advantage over the other school/team that DOESN'T CHEAT. Therefore....it makes sense (if you think REALLY hard about it) why a MSU fan would not like Calipari.

Is that really that fucking hard to grasp?

But we beat Kentucky last year and Wisconsin beat them this year.

I think most of you alls fear of Cal is irrational. It's like a fear of flying, where over looking Coach K is like over looking the risks associated with driving or consuming too much salt.

steveschneider wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm going to make this super simple for some of you. Turtleneck's point is valid but let me simplify it.

Cal cheats. You can't claim or prove otherwise. It is known, he has been caught, he has a history.

Izzo does not. You can't claim or prove otherwise outside of the farce of the Carlos Valentine violation. This is also widely known and anyone in the know will and has said the same.

Therefore......CHEATING gives one school/team a below board advantage over the other school/team that DOESN'T CHEAT. Therefore....it makes sense (if you think REALLY hard about it) why a MSU fan would not like Calipari.

Is that really that fucking hard to grasp?

But we beat Kentucky last year and Wisconsin beat them this year.

I think most of you alls fear of Cal is irrational. It's like a fear of flying, where over looking Coach K is like over looking the risks associated with driving or consuming too much salt.

You sound like a battered wife. Did Cal throw you down some stairs and then blame you for pissing him off?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

But we beat Kentucky last year and Wisconsin beat them this year.

I think most of you alls fear of Cal is irrational. It's like a fear of flying, where over looking Coach K is like over looking the risks associated with driving or consuming too much salt.

You sound like a battered wife. Did Cal throw you down some stairs and then blame you for pissing him off?

Donny, you are out of your element. So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know....

steveschneider wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

You sound like a battered wife. Did Cal throw you down some stairs and then blame you for pissing him off?

Donny, you are out of your element. So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know....

I am the walrus.