Re: tOfficial 2015 Detroit Tigers thread

by **DWags** 2015-07-13, 18:18

steveschneider wrote:IMO if you think about the lack of a WS ring and you want to point a finger, the atrocious bullpen is the obvious target.

Dombrowski gets a D- on the bullpen and I still stand by it, that cost the Tigers the WS in 2013.

I also give him a C for the hiring of Ausmus. I feel like there were better options out there, and last year the window was still open. Ausmus got schooled by Showalter last year, and I don't rule out that a better manager could have gotten the Tigers past the Orioles.

They should keep DD, I don't think they're going to find a better GM and honestly it's not really a part of the game I pay that close of attention too. I do know that Dave has a great track record and he's been in the league forever.

The thing is, in 13 he tried to do something. Was it the wrong move? Yep. Same with bringing in Nathan, it wasn't like he was sitting pat. He was making an effort. He guessed wrong. It's a thing in basebal where you also have to be lucky to win.

by HT 2015-07-13, 19:29

steveschneider wrote:IMO if you think about the lack of a WS ring and you want to point a finger, the atrocious bullpen is the obvious target.

Dombrowski gets a D- on the bullpen and I still stand by it, that cost the Tigers the WS in 2013.

I also give him a C for the hiring of Ausmus. I feel like there were better options out there, and last year the window was still open. Ausmus got schooled by Showalter last year, and I don't rule out that a better manager could have gotten the Tigers past the Orioles.

They should keep DD, I don't think they're going to find a better GM and honestly it's not really a part of the game I pay that close of attention too. I do know that Dave has a great track record and he's been in the league forever.

I don't know what there is to say about the bullpen. Yeah, he could have done more in free agency and overpaid for someone, but Benoit was pretty good that year, save for two pitches in the ALCS. Also, the Tigers had a lot of money tied up to be offering a lot for a reliever, especially with Verlander and Cabrera needing extensions.

He's actually tried to address that problem in the draft and international free agency (and lord knows I have not been a fan of the Tigers drafting college relievers), but they've traded guys who would be okay/good relievers (like Furbush and Smyly) and the draft is also just a crapshoot. He's also had some bad injury luck (Rondon), and some signings that looked good on paper just haven't worked out (Hanrahan, Nathan).

Also, Leyland wasn't very good at managing the bullpen that 2013 ALCS, and the lineup was struggling. IIRC, he left Benoit in even when he was struggling, and there was no good reason to pitch to Ortiz in game 6 with Benoit, even if walking him meant driving in a run. That was just bad management.

My only real gripe with Dombrowski is that he hired Ausmus, who I believe has no business learning basic MLB coaching with a "win now" team like the Tigers. Get someone more experienced for the roster you have.

by **GRR Spartan** 2015-07-13, 19:32

After reading Dombrowski's comments about the first half of the season and reading between the lines (We still have a chance meant there would not be a selloff of valuable free agents Price, Soria and Cespedes) it appears the Tigers are going on the outside outside chance

Here's my tinfoil hat theory. Dombrowski spoke to Mr. Illitch and discussed the options. Mr. Illitch still wants to win a World Series and has not agreed to trade anyone yet. Dombrowski may favor getting some players for free agents before the deadline but Illitch is still the boss.

There are also rumors of the Blue Jays being interested in Dombrowski. So Dombrowski finishes the year being the loyal employee to Mike Illitch and then departs for Toronto after the season. The Jays are owned by Rogers Communication that's valued at about $23B.

Mr. Illitch will be 86 this month and there are no guarantees of what Illitch Holdings will do after Mike Illitch isn't in the picture. Dombrowski has been with the Tigers for 13 years and he might be ready for a change before Mr. Illitch is gone.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-13, 19:34

DWags wrote:
steveschneider wrote:IMO if you think about the lack of a WS ring and you want to point a finger, the atrocious bullpen is the obvious target.

Dombrowski gets a D- on the bullpen and I still stand by it, that cost the Tigers the WS in 2013.

I also give him a C for the hiring of Ausmus. I feel like there were better options out there, and last year the window was still open. Ausmus got schooled by Showalter last year, and I don't rule out that a better manager could have gotten the Tigers past the Orioles.

They should keep DD, I don't think they're going to find a better GM and honestly it's not really a part of the game I pay that close of attention too. I do know that Dave has a great track record and he's been in the league forever.
The thing is, in 13 he tried to do something. Was it the wrong move? Yep. Same with bringing in Nathan, it wasn't like he was sitting pat. He was making an effort. He guessed wrong. It's a thing in basebal where you also have to be lucky to win.

If I remember correctly in 13 I think his effort to improve the bullpen was to stand pat, and I believe that was also the year they rolled out Papa Grande at the start of the season to see if he could work through his issues.

I guess you could argue too that if Rondon didn't blow out his arm that year the bp could have gotten the job done. That being said all teams have to play through injuries but still the bp has been terrible for 3 years straight. Dombrowskis moves have been to pull from the Rangers garbage can. My grade of D- still stands.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-17, 17:01

Been some rumblings about Dombroski, don't know if it's just the Detroit media creating drama but it sounds like there could be a possibility that Dombrowski is out at the end of the year.

I have to say, he deserves some criticism for failing to fix the bullpen for the last three years. I think there would be something to having a fresh perspective for next year. The Tigers have an owner that's willing to shell out the cash, maybe the answer is to get someone in there that is a little more creative at fixing the issues.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2015-07-17, 17:17

Morosi was trying to fan rumors this week that DD might want to seek greener pastures in Anaheim or Toronto.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/07/no-progress-on-extension-for-dave-dombrowski.html

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-17, 17:38

Floyd Robertson wrote:Morosi was trying to fan rumors this week that DD might want to seek greener pastures in Anaheim or Toronto.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/07/no-progress-on-extension-for-dave-dombrowski.html

Good luck with that. Tigers with the amount of money they are willing to spend is one of the best jobs out there.

I think Anaheim has a bigger payroll, but I doubt it's a matter of DD wanting greener pastures. I'm sure it has something to do with Illitch and it's probably at a point where it is best for both parties part.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-17, 17:40

http://deadspin.com/2015-payrolls-and-salaries-for-every-mlb-team-1695040045

Tigers have the #4 payroll

Angels #7

Toronto #10

by Guest 2015-07-17, 20:45

Just Dingers or Just Defense - Whichever you need at the time!!

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-17, 21:41

I hope I'm wrong but I'm feeling a massive bullpen letdown tonight.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-17, 22:00

Here it comes. I think we survive this one but this pen sucks.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-17, 22:04

Wouldn't be surprised if this guy gets a homerun. 7-6

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-17, 22:04

Whew!

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-18, 21:47

Well, the offense went back to June Offense.

by **DWags** 2015-07-18, 21:51

Who do we have we can keep and build around.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-18, 21:55

Iglesias, JDM, McCann, Castellanos, Rondon, Shane Greene, maybe Alex Wilson?

Guys who are vets who probably won't get traded and are owed significant money: VMart, Miggy, JV, Anibal, Kinsler

by **GRR Spartan** 2015-07-18, 22:17

DWags wrote:Who do we have we can keep and build around.

Miggy at 1st, Inglesias at SS, McCann catching, Gose in CF, JD in RF, Davis as the extra outfielder and Kinsler although if they could get value for him I'd trade him for a player who doesn't get brain lock on the base paths.

They are stuck with Castellanos. Needed to trade him before his fielding and struggles with MLB pitching were exposed.

Trade the big 3 free agents. Price will get $29-31M per season for at least 5 or 6 years, Soria will get Andrew a Miller type money at $9M per and Cespedes who will be 31 next season will be wanting $12M or more for at least 5 years. A lot of money for aging legs in the OF.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-18, 22:26

Castellanos' bat will be fine. Jesus the guy is 24 years old and has only played 1.5 full seasons. He has a great, natural inside-out swing. He's going to be a very good hitter at the ML level for a lot of years. It's also not out of the question that he can continue to improve at 3rd. He's improved by leaps and bounds this year. If not, he can be moved to a corner OF spot or eventually 1B or DH.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-18, 22:27

Correction. He turned 23 4 months ago. tOfficial 2015 Detroit Tigers thread - Page 2 502811600

@ giving up on him.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-18, 22:38

The fat lady is warming up.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-18, 22:41

Yeah you can't lose with Price on the hill at home coming out of the break. Let's see how the lineup and JV respond tomorrow. They are facing another RHP that they should be able to hit tomorrow. Then again, would have said the same about Tillman....

by **The Pantry** 2015-07-18, 22:49

Hope Dombrowski fulfills all of Ilitch's wishes before splitting for Toronto with Babcock

by **GRR Spartan** 2015-07-18, 23:16

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Castellanos' bat will be fine. Jesus the guy is 24 years old and has only played 1.5 full seasons. He has a great, natural inside-out swing. He's going to be a very good hitter at the ML level for a lot of years. It's also not out of the question that he can continue to improve at 3rd. He's improved by leaps and bounds this year. If not, he can be moved to a corner OF spot or eventually 1B or DH.

Swiss cheese glove Castellanos hitting less than .250. He's young and if he needs to get better it's a shame they need to give him AAA playing time in MLB games. If he can't hit above .270 why would you put Castelllanos in the OF? He was never more valuable than before he played his first dozen MLB games at 3rd. He's a younger, taller Brandon Inge.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-18, 23:28

Come on, guy. He struggled early and he's been hitting pretty good since. Yes, it's a shame the organization didn't have a better option to put at 3rd so he could further refine his skills in the minors. But he's shown fairly steady improvement in all areas since coming up. Let's see where he stands at the end of the year before we write him off.

I think he's a .280 hitter who hits 25 doubles/year and probably 20 HR.

Inge was the opposite. Slick fielding kid who couldn't hit worth a lick, outside of 1 year, or maybe 2. NC has serious bat talent. Glove....not so much. But again, he improved quite a bit from year 1 to 2 after working at it. Let's give him a bit more time. He's 23!!!

by **GRR Spartan** 2015-07-18, 23:29

The Pantry wrote:Hope Dombrowski fulfills all of Ilitch's wishes before splitting for Toronto with Babcock

If Mr. Ilitch tells Dmbrowski to hold on to the 3 most valuable trade options and acquire some pitching help and they don't make the playoffs it will be a waste of current assets to get some value for he future.

Maybe Dombrowski is think of his future too. He's going to do what Mike Illitch tells him. But Mike Illitch is 85 and hasn't looked well in the last 2-3 years. Dombrowski can't predict if the Illitch heirs will have the same attitude towards supporting the Tigers as their father. Rogers Communications owns 100% of the Blue Jays. If they go after Dombrowski it's a sign they are serious about going back to the post season and they have the deep pockets to get players.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-18, 23:49

Tonight might be the night. Or maybe I'm just down because I'm drunk.

-Royals beat CWS in extras
-Tigers lose 1-0 at home with Price on the mount
-Twins come back from being absolutely dominated by Kazmir 1-0 to take a lead and win in the top of the 9th, 2-1

Since the break, the Tigers have lost a half game on KC and a full game to the Twins.

Neutral

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-18, 23:50

Oh wait, Oakland scored somehow. It ain't over. 2-2 bottom 9. Still hope! Neutral

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-07-19, 00:08

A's pull it out.

So you're saying there's a chance.....

by **GRR Spartan** 2015-07-19, 00:31

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Come on, guy. He struggled early and he's been hitting pretty good since. Yes, it's a shame the organization didn't have a better option to put at 3rd so he could further refine his skills in the minors. But he's shown fairly steady improvement in all areas since coming up. Let's see where he stands at the end of the year before we write him off.

I think he's a .280 hitter who hits 25 doubles/year and probably 20 HR.

Inge was the opposite. Slick fielding kid who couldn't hit worth a lick, outside of 1 year, or maybe 2. NC has serious bat talent. Glove....not so much. But again, he improved quite a bit from year 1 to 2 after working at it. Let's give him a bit more time. He's 23!!!

I hope you are right Hatcher. Castellanos is cheap @ $525k and not eligible for arbitration until '17 / free agency in '20. It looks like they are going to give him opportunity to succeed at 3rd. He was a 1st rd pick but it was #44 not top 10 or 20.

by HT 2015-07-19, 07:07

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Come on, guy. He struggled early and he's been hitting pretty good since. Yes, it's a shame the organization didn't have a better option to put at 3rd so he could further refine his skills in the minors. But he's shown fairly steady improvement in all areas since coming up. Let's see where he stands at the end of the year before we write him off.

I think he's a .280 hitter who hits 25 doubles/year and probably 20 HR.

Inge was the opposite. Slick fielding kid who couldn't hit worth a lick, outside of 1 year, or maybe 2. NC has serious bat talent. Glove....not so much. But again, he improved quite a bit from year 1 to 2 after working at it. Let's give him a bit more time. He's 23!!!

Castellanos was drafted 5 years ago. He was projected to have an elite hit tool, and it was basically what defined his value, and he got a massive signing bonus because of it.

He took forever to get to the majors, struggling in particular when he got to Toledo. Frankly, when he had some playing time in 2013, there was nothing hopeful about his play, and I was hoping he'd get traded while his value was high. I believe he was the reason a few trades for the Tigers didn't happen.

It's been well over a year and he hasn't really done anything impressive except improve his fielding to something better than historically bad. I think he's going to get more chance to succeed, but at this point, I don't think he is going to be the guy the Tigers planned around.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-19, 08:59

GRR Spartan wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Castellanos' bat will be fine. Jesus the guy is 24 years old and has only played 1.5 full seasons. He has a great, natural inside-out swing. He's going to be a very good hitter at the ML level for a lot of years. It's also not out of the question that he can continue to improve at 3rd. He's improved by leaps and bounds this year. If not, he can be moved to a corner OF spot or eventually 1B or DH.

Swiss cheese glove Castellanos hitting less than .250. He's young and if he needs to get better it's a shame they need to give him AAA playing time in MLB games. If he can't hit above .270 why would you put Castelllanos in the OF? He was never more valuable than before he played his first dozen MLB games at 3rd. He's a younger, taller Brandon Inge.

His bat has really improved a lot in the last month. Still think there's a lot of upside to him.

From what i read the first 7 games of the second half would determine whether the tigers would buy or sell. They need to win at least 4 of those 7 according to Anthony Fenech.

1-1 so far and the loss was during a solid outting by price. Lose today and then it's on to the bottom of the lineup. Where another two losses are very likely. I think the game today is crucial in order to get to 4 wins.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-19, 13:21

Shaky start for Verlander, hopefully the bats are warmer today.

by **The Pantry** 2015-07-19, 13:33

Nice catch by Cespedes

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-19, 13:55

Stupid challenge. He's out and that's too bad we aren't hitting well so far.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-19, 14:03

Time for Brad I channel his inner Leyland.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-19, 14:04

steveschneider wrote:Time for Brad I channel his inner Leyland.

Arguing with umps isn't one of brads strengths.

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-19, 14:06

Also, Krauss would have scored..shows you how costly that pick off was.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-07-19, 14:25

Verlander sucks

by **steveschneider** 2015-07-19, 14:30

This season is just about over. Maybe simon will show up rested but I think we are staring at a 4 game losing streak which this team can't afford.

The Tigers are going to have to go 3-1 vs the mariners.

by **DWags** 2015-07-19, 14:31

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Verlander sucks

He needs to learn how to pitch now. He's stubborn.

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