Multiple victims in a "mass shooting" at Orlando club.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Stephen Miller ‏@redsteeze  19m19 minutes ago
Literally, Mickey Mouse is doing a better job keeping us safe than this administration and this federal government.

Karla RayVerified account ‏@KRayWFTV
#BREAKING- law enforcement source says Disney notified FBI the couple may have been casing Disney in April #WFTV

I'd like to hear Stephen Miller's thoughts on the previous administration's attempts to keep us safe.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

I'd like to hear Stephen Miller's thoughts on the previous administration's attempts to keep us safe.

I'm sure he thinks it's a pretty mixed bag.   The Bush administration sowed many seeds of the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan.  This administration compounded them by pulling out of Iraq abruptly in order to fulfill a campaign promise.  There's a lot of shared blame.

And if you're referring to 9/11 I'll grant the Bush administration was in charge so the ultimate responsibility was theirs.   But Clinton had plenty of warnings about Bin Laden and multiple opportunities to kill him and passed.  Bush should get some credit for thwarting any additional follow on attacks.   We've had a spate of those under Obama.   Nothing as big as 9/11 but more numerous.  

Turtleneck wrote:Not offended, Loose. Just feel any administration is in an impossible position.

Turtleneck wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2015/12/09/the-gun-debate-doesnt-always-have-to-be-all-or-nothing/?tid=a_inl
The gun debate doesn’t have to be all or nothing

DWags wrote:

Oh, and he was able to get an automatic weapon in this country absolutely with no hassle even though he was on the FBI watch list cause ....... Merica!

xsanguine wrote:

DWags wrote:

Oh, and he was able to get an automatic weapon in this country absolutely with no hassle even though he was on the FBI watch list cause ....... Merica!

No, no he wasn't.

LooseGoose wrote:Not only that contrary to 98.9% of news reports he didn't use an AR-15.   He used a Sig Sauer - not that it matters to the people getting shot but it does illustrate how accurate reports are.   Even the stories in the NYT, WaPost and most other places today are still claiming he used an AR.

LooseGoose wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:Not offended, Loose. Just feel any administration is in an impossible position.

an entirely new approach to determining threat levels.

Cym Jim wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Not only that contrary to 98.9% of news reports he didn't use an AR-15.   He used a Sig Sauer - not that it matters to the people getting shot but it does illustrate how accurate reports are.   Even the stories in the NYT, WaPost and most other places today are still claiming he used an AR.

What would be your weapons of choice for a mass shooting? Would you go with the classic long gun/handgun combo, or something more creative? Old school sniper rifle from a clocktower perhaps?

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

an entirely new approach to determining threat levels.

Something something freedom freedom for everyone except the people I don't trust

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:So, slippery slope or is this ok because Trump said it?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-nra-meeting-224362

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:So, slippery slope or is this ok because Trump said it?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-nra-meeting-224362

Cym Jim wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Not only that contrary to 98.9% of news reports he didn't use an AR-15.   He used a Sig Sauer - not that it matters to the people getting shot but it does illustrate how accurate reports are.   Even the stories in the NYT, WaPost and most other places today are still claiming he used an AR.

What would be your weapons of choice for a mass shooting? Would you go with the classic long gun/handgun combo, or something more creative? Old school sniper rifle from a clocktower perhaps?

xsanguine wrote:

Cym Jim wrote:

What would be your weapons of choice for a mass shooting? Would you go with the classic long gun/handgun combo, or something more creative? Old school sniper rifle from a clocktower perhaps?

I'd go for an military grade (an actual automatic weapon) M-60 with a backpack full of ammunition on a thread and as many explosives as I could attach to a belt/vest. I'd probably have several modified automatic pistols with as many clips as I could attach.

Edit: Clips, magazines... whatever, you know what I mean.

Cym Jim wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

I'd go for an military grade (an actual automatic weapon) M-60 with a backpack full of ammunition on a thread and as many explosives as I could attach to a belt/vest. I'd probably have several modified automatic pistols with as many clips as I could attach.

Edit: Clips, magazines... whatever, you know what I mean.

Doesn't spending >30k on a killing spree seem a little excessive?

LooseGoose wrote:Yep, all the fault of the NRA and the Republicans.

ABC News Verified account ‏@ABC
Gun store owner: We alerted FBI to 'suspicious' customer weeks before Orlando shooting. http://abcn.ws/28IylH3

LooseGoose wrote:Yep, all the fault of the NRA and the Republicans.

ABC News Verified account ‏@ABC
Gun store owner: We alerted FBI to 'suspicious' customer weeks before Orlando shooting. http://abcn.ws/28IylH3

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Yep, all the fault of the NRA and the Republicans.

ABC News Verified account ‏@ABC
Gun store owner: We alerted FBI to 'suspicious' customer weeks before Orlando shooting. http://abcn.ws/28IylH3

so suddenly republicans are okay with big government getting involved in what people choose to purchase?

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
so suddenly republicans are okay with big government getting involved in what people choose to purchase?

If they're planning to kill a bunch of other people I think anyone should be okay with it. I know it offends you since you would have missed the week you've had of reveling in the bloodshed.

The Sun Sentinel wrote:Federal investigators have scoured Omar Mateen's laptop computer, cell phone and the trail of communications he left behind and so far have found no evidence that he led a secret gay life, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity about the ongoing investigation.

They've also reviewed the electronic devices of men who said they'd communicated with him on gay dating apps and so far have found no link.

A snarling fight immediately broke out on the left, with centrist liberals and loyal Democratic partisans on one side, and civil liberties-focused groups and leftists on the other. The ACLU came out against the bill, and so did the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the nation's biggest Muslim advocacy group, while practically every big-shot Democrat went the other way.

Yet again, Democrats split their own base with conservative policy, and for what? Apparently so they can accuse Republicans of being weak on terrorism during the upcoming election — or even supporting the sale of weapons to ISIS.

This is grotesque political malpractice. Aside from the straight-up violation of due process that is inherent in the very idea of a secret list which can strip away people's constitutional rights, this further entrenches the political legitimacy of Bush-era authoritarian terror politics. We will unquestionably hear about this the next time there is a terrorist attack done by a Muslim and conservatives start shrieking for more dragnet surveillance and torture and secret prisons.

And make no mistake, the no-fly list is almost exclusively directed at Muslims.

In the annals of American political narratives, few were worse and more malicious than the notion that a young Muslim jihadist decided to shoot up a gay nightclub in Orlando because of an alleged “climate of hate” created by American Christians.

This was no mere fringe view. Remember the astonishing piece by the New York Times editorial board on June 15, 2016 — published a mere three days after the attack? Here’s a taste:

While the precise motivation for the rampage remains unclear, it is evident that Mr. Mateen was driven by hatred toward gays and lesbians. Hate crimes don’t happen in a vacuum. They occur where bigotry is allowed to fester, where minorities are vilified and where people are scapegoated for political gain. Tragically, this is the state of American politics, driven too often by Republican politicians who see prejudice as something to exploit, not extinguish.

It then proceeded to name-check GOP politicians for their alleged homophobia, before ending with this unconscionable flourish: “The 49 people killed in Orlando were victims of a terrorist attack. But they also need to be remembered as casualties of a society where hate has deep roots.”

Well now, thanks to the trial of Omar Mateen’s wife, Noor Salman, the facts are in. As Melissa Jeltsen wrote in a well-reported piece for HuffPost, quite a few members of our media elite got the Pulse massacre story “completely wrong.” Oops:

Salman’s trial cast doubt on everything we thought we knew about Mateen. There was no evidence he was a closeted gay man, no evidence that he was ever on Grindr. He looked at porn involving older women, but investigators who scoured Mateen’s electronic devices couldn’t find any internet history related to homosexuality. (There were daily, obsessive searches about ISIS, however.) Mateen had extramarital affairs with women, two of whom testified during the trial about his duplicitous ways.

Double oops:

As far as investigators could tell, Mateen had never been to Pulse before, whether as a patron or to case the nightclub. Even prosecutors acknowledged in their closing statement that Pulse was not his original target; it was the Disney Springs shopping and entertainment complex. They presented evidence demonstrating that Mateen chose Pulse randomly less than an hour before the attack. It is not clear he even knew it was a gay bar. A security guard recalled Mateen asking where all the women were, apparently in earnest, in the minutes before he began his slaughter.

This was a terrorist attack, pure and simple. There’s no evidence it was an anti-gay hate crime. In fact, as Jeltsen notes, Florida’s 2016 hate-crimes report “does not include the 49 victims of the Pulse shooting in its official total.”

The available evidence indicates that Mateen’s original target was Disney Springs and EVE Orlando, but he was deterred by “heavy, visible security.” He then googled “downtown Orlando nightclubs” before targeting Pulse. Mateen’s attack was a “crime of opportunity, the location chosen at random.”

Members of the mainstream media rightfully scorn fringe sites and online demagogues who leap to conclusions after each and every mass shooting, spreading conspiracy theories and using the wildest claims as a club to beat their political opponents. In this case, however, the “fringe site” was the New York Times. The online demagogues were people toasted in elite circles across the land. Their actions were inexcusable then, and they’re even more inexcusable now. An apology is necessary. A course correction is mandatory.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I don't care about links, mainstream media reports, political agendas, race, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion, etc - I just want people to stop murdering people.

thanks for the mainstream media link, though, Goose.. I guess.

LooseGoose wrote:Not that facts mean anything to the hysterical.

The Pulse Nightclub Trial Debunked a Progressive Anti-Christian Narrative

In the annals of American political narratives, few were worse and more malicious than the notion that a young Muslim jihadist decided to shoot up a gay nightclub in Orlando because of an alleged “climate of hate” created by American Christians.

This was no mere fringe view. Remember the astonishing piece by the New York Times editorial board on June 15, 2016 — published a mere three days after the attack? Here’s a taste:

While the precise motivation for the rampage remains unclear, it is evident that Mr. Mateen was driven by hatred toward gays and lesbians. Hate crimes don’t happen in a vacuum. They occur where bigotry is allowed to fester, where minorities are vilified and where people are scapegoated for political gain. Tragically, this is the state of American politics, driven too often by Republican politicians who see prejudice as something to exploit, not extinguish.

It then proceeded to name-check GOP politicians for their alleged homophobia, before ending with this unconscionable flourish: “The 49 people killed in Orlando were victims of a terrorist attack. But they also need to be remembered as casualties of a society where hate has deep roots.”

Well now, thanks to the trial of Omar Mateen’s wife, Noor Salman, the facts are in. As Melissa Jeltsen wrote in a well-reported piece for HuffPost, quite a few members of our media elite got the Pulse massacre story “completely wrong.” Oops:

Salman’s trial cast doubt on everything we thought we knew about Mateen. There was no evidence he was a closeted gay man, no evidence that he was ever on Grindr. He looked at porn involving older women, but investigators who scoured Mateen’s electronic devices couldn’t find any internet history related to homosexuality. (There were daily, obsessive searches about ISIS, however.) Mateen had extramarital affairs with women, two of whom testified during the trial about his duplicitous ways.

Double oops:

As far as investigators could tell, Mateen had never been to Pulse before, whether as a patron or to case the nightclub. Even prosecutors acknowledged in their closing statement that Pulse was not his original target; it was the Disney Springs shopping and entertainment complex. They presented evidence demonstrating that Mateen chose Pulse randomly less than an hour before the attack. It is not clear he even knew it was a gay bar. A security guard recalled Mateen asking where all the women were, apparently in earnest, in the minutes before he began his slaughter.

This was a terrorist attack, pure and simple. There’s no evidence it was an anti-gay hate crime. In fact, as Jeltsen notes, Florida’s 2016 hate-crimes report “does not include the 49 victims of the Pulse shooting in its official total.”

The available evidence indicates that Mateen’s original target was Disney Springs and EVE Orlando, but he was deterred by “heavy, visible security.” He then googled “downtown Orlando nightclubs” before targeting Pulse. Mateen’s attack was a “crime of opportunity, the location chosen at random.”

And that last paragraph? He was deterred by heavy security. In other words by good guys with guns. So he found a gun free zone. More "we did something" legislation that was/is counterproductive.

Members of the mainstream media rightfully scorn fringe sites and online demagogues who leap to conclusions after each and every mass shooting, spreading conspiracy theories and using the wildest claims as a club to beat their political opponents. In this case, however, the “fringe site” was the New York Times. The online demagogues were people toasted in elite circles across the land. Their actions were inexcusable then, and they’re even more inexcusable now. An apology is necessary. A course correction is mandatory.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I don't care about links, mainstream media reports, political agendas, race, sexual preference, ethnicity, religion, etc - I just want people to stop murdering people.

thanks for the mainstream media link, though, Goose.. I guess.

If this is what you want then get them to church Bob.

Rocinante wrote:Who could ever have seen this coming?!

A Texas minister praised the killing of 49 people at a gay club in Orlando in 2016. Last week, he resigned for allegedly smoking marijuana, gambling and paying for sex.

Rocinante wrote:Who could ever have seen this coming?!

A Texas minister praised the killing of 49 people at a gay club in Orlando in 2016. Last week, he resigned for allegedly smoking marijuana, gambling and paying for sex.

DWags wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Who could ever have seen this coming?!

A Texas minister praised the killing of 49 people at a gay club in Orlando in 2016. Last week, he resigned for allegedly smoking marijuana, gambling and paying for sex.

Praise the Lord and pass the hooker.