Re: The political hodge podge thread

[Robert J Sakimano]

Meanwhile Trumps has a leak issue directly tied to his mouth. A former National Security Advisor who is being investgated for monetary ties to Russia and Turkey while working for the campaign.

We have several officials including the AG, the aforementined NSA and even the President's son-in-law all forgetting about mentioning meetings with Russian officials.  

We have the daugher of the President who is also a credentialed member of the West Wing staff as a Presidential advisor lining up 50 copyright deals for her company(s) with China while the Chinese President was meeting with her father in FL.  She also got millions from the Saudis for her "charity" .

Here we have several pages about how tough white people have it n America.

Maybe Trump's win in Nov has already changed our American democracy forever.

so you're saying that Hillary's scary email account was more secure than the sexual predator's mouth?

hmm.. I never would've guessed that.

[Rocinante]

Dude we talk about the Trump Russia psycho-social change to our country stuff a lot too. Can't we talk about other stuff sometimes?

[Robert J Sakimano]

Dude we talk about the Trump Russia psycho-social change to our country stuff a lot too. Can't we talk about other stuff sometimes?

let's talk about Hillary's email account, Benghazi or some other lies perpetuated by the mainstream media..

[GRR Spartan]

Dude we talk about the Trump Russia psycho-social change to our country stuff a lot too. Can't we talk about other stuff sometimes?

The narrative of how white guys are being picked on, white supremacists can't use a gym, its okay to call for lynching of people assigned to take down Confederate statues and punching a reporter is acceptable.

Until the poor white guys are making rules that get your ass tossed in jail or until you are sued into silence it will be okay.  Just move along.  Incremental losses until you have nothing to lose because the poor white folks who whined about being picked on have returned us to the 1850's.

[Robert J Sakimano]

Dude we talk about the Trump Russia psycho-social change to our country stuff a lot too. Can't we talk about other stuff sometimes?

The narrative of how white guys are being picked on, white supremacists can't use a gym, its okay to call for lynching of people assigned to take down Confederate statues and punching a reporter is acceptable.

Until the poor white guys are making rules that get your ass tossed in jail or until you are sued into silence it will be okay.  Just move along.  Incremental losses until you have nothing to lose because the poor white folks who whined about being picked on have returned us to the 1850's.

I feel bad for white christians in America.. so sad how they're being treated.

[Rocinante]

I had dinner with a good friend last night and she told me about a recent date she went on. She knew nothing about the guy. He approached her in the grocery store and seemed perfectly normal. So she went to lunch with him. He's a early thirties white dude. Clean cut. Nothing outwardly weird. She is a Chinese-American, born in LA. They are having lunch, small talking where you from, where'd you go to college kind of thing. He casually drops the n-word. She thinks the context is he was talking about a conversation he and a friend had and he was quoting either himself or his friend. She is a bit stunned, so she says "hey, it's not okay to use that word." To which he goes into a sputtering long-winded explanation of the PC culture and how it's just a word and black people's sensitivity is why that word has so much power and people need to relax. This man who is from Billings Montana (right across the border from where I live), who likely knows nobody who isn't white, certainly has grown up in a nearly homogeneous white community is telling this Asian chick from LA how black people are too sensitive and n***er is just a word.

She said he just kept saying "you just gotta understand." She let him go on for about a minute and a half before she was like, "you know what? I'm out of here." and left.

Analysis: there's a casual racism that has bubbled up in a lot of people (white men mostly, but fuck if white women can't be racist as fuck too) following this election. "PC culture" is a dog-whistle for these people. "The PC culture" has told them that they can't say what they want and now this backlash against it has made them feel like the things they usually save for their backyards with their buddies, or their republican fundraising dinners are okay to try out in the world. They were so oppressed for so long, the poor dears.

Anyway, just another product of our fucked up times.

[Robert J Sakimano]

I had dinner with a good friend last night and she told me about a recent date she went on. She knew nothing about the guy. He approached her in the grocery store and seemed perfectly normal. So she went to lunch with him. He's a early thirties white dude. Clean cut. Nothing outwardly weird. She is a Chinese-American, born in LA. They are having lunch, small talking where you from, where'd you go to college kind of thing. He casually drops the n-word. She thinks the context is he was talking about a conversation he and a friend had and he was quoting either himself or his friend. She is a bit stunned, so she says "hey, it's not okay to use that word." To which he goes into a sputtering long-winded explanation of the PC culture and how it's just a word and black people's sensitivity is why that word has so much power and people need to relax. This man who is from Billings Montana (right across the border from where I live), who likely knows nobody who isn't white, certainly has grown up in a nearly homogeneous white community is telling this Asian chick from LA how black people are too sensitive and n***er is just a word.

She said he just kept saying "you just gotta understand." She let him go on for about a minute and a half before she was like, "you know what? I'm out of here." and left.

Analysis: there's a casual racism that has bubbled up in a lot of people (white men mostly, but fuck if white women can't be racist as fuck too) following this election. "PC culture" is a dog-whistle for these people. "The PC culture" has told them that they can't say what they want and now this backlash against it has made them feel like the things they usually save for their backyards with their buddies, or their republican fundraising dinners are okay to try out in the world. They were so oppressed for so long, the poor dears.

Anyway, just another product of our fucked up times.

meh - the racism has always been there. Look no further than the way right wing white folks reacted to a Barack Obama campaign and subsequent election (both 2008, 2012).

and look no further than the way they suddenly feel safe now that their president is a racist bigot, too - you see it becoming more prevalent to speak out in society and in social situations.. because, from their perspective, why wouldn't they? Look who is running the country.

it's suddenly safe to out yourself as a racist bigot - and hiding behind the "I'm sick of having to be PC" shield. What they're really saying is that they're sick that America elected a black man (twice) and it's now time for the black folks to be put back where they belong.

[DWags]

I had dinner with a good friend last night and she told me about a recent date she went on. She knew nothing about the guy. He approached her in the grocery store and seemed perfectly normal. So she went to lunch with him. He's a early thirties white dude. Clean cut. Nothing outwardly weird. She is a Chinese-American, born in LA. They are having lunch, small talking where you from, where'd you go to college kind of thing. He casually drops the n-word. She thinks the context is he was talking about a conversation he and a friend had and he was quoting either himself or his friend. She is a bit stunned, so she says "hey, it's not okay to use that word." To which he goes into a sputtering long-winded explanation of the PC culture and how it's just a word and black people's sensitivity is why that word has so much power and people need to relax. This man who is from Billings Montana (right across the border from where I live), who likely knows nobody who isn't white, certainly has grown up in a nearly homogeneous white community is telling this Asian chick from LA how black people are too sensitive and n***er is just a word.

She said he just kept saying "you just gotta understand." She let him go on for about a minute and a half before she was like, "you know what? I'm out of here." and left.

Analysis: there's a casual racism that has bubbled up in a lot of people (white men mostly, but fuck if white women can't be racist as fuck too) following this election. "PC culture" is a dog-whistle for these people. "The PC culture" has told them that they can't say what they want and now this backlash against it has made them feel like the things they usually save for their backyards with their buddies, or their republican fundraising dinners are okay to try out in the world. They were so oppressed for so long, the poor dears.

Anyway, just another product of our fucked up times.

Went to visit my kid this winter at MSU. Just me. We got to go to Dagwoods for the greatest burgers in the world. We were belly up to the bar, MSU was playing Away, game was on T.V. Table behind us had three guys sitting there, one of them openly says out loud, "I'm a racist, I don't care what anybody thinks". Anyway, daughter jokes, "hey dad, I really want to date that guy". It's always been there, peoples feelings are what they are, I just think that since November, it's been a little easier for them to say things out loud.

I also think there is a difference between hating the P.C. stuff, which is out of hand quite frequently, and saying or doing things deliberately to make people uncomfortable. You know who the idiots are.

[Guest]

Analysis: there's a casual racism that has bubbled up in a lot of people (white men mostly, but fuck if white women can't be racist as fuck too) following this election.

Are Black men racist? Or hasn't that bubbled up by you yet?

[Rocinante]

Analysis: there's a casual racism that has bubbled up in a lot of people (white men mostly, but fuck if white women can't be racist as fuck too) following this election.

Are Black men racist? Or hasn't that bubbled up by you yet?

All races have racists goose. What's your point?

[DWags]

Analysis: there's a casual racism that has bubbled up in a lot of people (white men mostly, but fuck if white women can't be racist as fuck too) following this election.

Are Black men racist? Or hasn't that bubbled up by you yet?

Are all racist or some? Because I think we know the answer. But can you explain why you bring it up? I think last week you told me "two wrongs....". That was you wasn't it?

[xsanguine]

Here we have several pages about how tough white people have it n America.

No we don't, you authoritarian dope. We have several pages showing the hypocrisy of the race-baiting types.

Just stay in your white neighborhood where your perceptions can go unchallenged.

[Cameron]

It's sad to me that people are incapable of discussing these issues in a reasoned, dispassionate way. Perhaps it's expecting too much of people not to let their emotions override their communication skills, but it still makes having a meaningful conversation virtually impossible.

[xsanguine]

All races have racists goose. What's your point?

[Guest]

Hate'm while they're in office - love them when they're out. All a bunch of damned hypocrites.

Joe Perticone‏Verified account @JoePerticone 1h1 hour ago
Bono is at the Crawford Ranch

[Guest]

Are Black men racist? Or hasn't that bubbled up by you yet?

All races have racists goose. What's your point?

Your "white men mostly" phrase is what's up. I'd like you to link me to actual data supporting that. Perhaps of the ultimate "hate" of how many white men kill black men vs how many black men kill white men?

[xsanguine]

Bono doesn't like G-Dub? I always remember Bono getting shit for praising W for all the work they did together in Africa. I thought they were bros even while he was in office?

[Guest]

Are Black men racist? Or hasn't that bubbled up by you yet?

Are all racist or some? Because I think we know the answer. But can you explain why you bring it up? I think last week you told me "two wrongs....". That was you wasn't it?

My answer is below. Of course I'll get no data because others here aren't expected to back their spew up with facts, just feelings.

[Travis of the Cosmos]

Hate'm while they're in office - love them when they're out. All a bunch of damned hypocrites.

Joe Perticone‏Verified account @JoePerticone 1h1 hour ago
Bono is at the Crawford Ranch

Man, that was an easy google.

Here's a link to the time that bono had lunch with GWB at the White House in 2005

[Rocinante]

All races have racists goose. What's your point?

Your "white men mostly" phrase is what's up. I'd like you to link me to actual data supporting that. Perhaps of the ultimate "hate" of how many white men kill black men vs how many black men kill white men?

It's my analysis of an incident and my own observation of people right now. I feel that latent racism is becoming expressed racism. I feel that there is a comfort level with racism that is the result of this administration and how it got office. That newly open racism would naturally not come from Bolivian women, because the president isn't a Bolivian woman who tacitly approves of, or openly says and does racist shit. So you're right I have no data. It's my opinion. I think observation bears it out. I guess you don't.

[GRR Spartan]

N. Korea is launching missiles
African pirates are arrempting a comeback
Terror in Manchester UK
Trump lectures NATO n payment with no mention of Article 5

What's Trump's concerns at the G7?
He thinks its too hard to build golf resorts in the EU
Germany is selling too many cars in the US.  
Wonder what all those auto dealers who supported Trump and those auto workers in Alabama and South Carolina building German cars think.

[NigelUno]

All races have racists goose. What's your point?

Your "white men mostly" phrase is what's up. I'd like you to link me to actual data supporting that. Perhaps of the ultimate "hate" of how many white men kill black men vs how many black men kill white men?

You don't think Trump's campaign comments regarding Muslims and Mexicans have promoted a less PC attitude (and possibly more racist attitude) from his supporters?

[Guest]

Your "white men mostly" phrase is what's up. I'd like you to link me to actual data supporting that. Perhaps of the ultimate "hate" of how many white men kill black men vs how many black men kill white men?

You don't think Trump's campaign comments regarding Muslims and Mexicans have promoted a less PC attitude (and possibly more racist attitude) from his supporters?

Anecdotes aren't data.

[Guest]

Kurt Schlichter‏Verified account @KurtSchlichter  1h1 hour ago

Trump was clear the Euros need to carry their weight and they were offended.
Liberals sided with foreigners over US taxpayers & military.

[DWags]

Kurt Schlichter‏Verified account @KurtSchlichter  1h1 hour ago

Trump was clear the Euros need to carry their weight and they were offended.
Liberals sided with foreigners over US taxpayers & military.

Got in a debate over this with my wife. Sometimes Trump says shit that resonates with the American people not a party. It's oK to say you agree with it. Or, if you secretly do, just shut up and don't take the contrarian point.

Here's my problem with this. How do we force payment? Withdraw? Would that be in our best interest? Kick those countries out? What's our follow through plan?

[NigelUno]

You don't think Trump's campaign comments regarding Muslims and Mexicans have promoted a less PC attitude (and possibly more racist attitude) from his supporters?

Anecdotes aren't data.

Interesting way of dodging the question.

[NigelUno]

Kurt Schlichter‏Verified account @KurtSchlichter  1h1 hour ago

Trump was clear the Euros need to carry their weight and they were offended.
Liberals sided with foreigners over US taxpayers & military.

Got in a debate over this with my wife. Sometimes Trump says shit that resonates with the American people not a party. It's oK to say you agree with it. Or, if you secretly do, just shut up and don't take the contrarian point.

Here's my problem with this. How do we force payment? Withdraw? Would that be in our best interest? Kick those countries out? What's our follow through plan?

We'll make Mercedes and BMW ante up. Problem solved.

[Rocinante]

Kurt Schlichter‏Verified account @KurtSchlichter  1h1 hour ago

Trump was clear the Euros need to carry their weight and they were offended.
Liberals sided with foreigners over US taxpayers & military.

Do you have any data on that?

[GRR Spartan]

Trump keeps running his mouth and NATO won't give a flying fuck if he's with them on terrorism or keeping North Korea in check.

China is showing its more than willing to be a be adult at the table while Trump talks golf courses and whines about German trade.

Interestingly his daughter's imports of Chinese goods don't seem to be the same irratant.

[Travis of the Cosmos]

Hate'm while they're in office - love them when they're out. All a bunch of damned hypocrites.

Joe Perticone‏Verified account @JoePerticone 1h1 hour ago
Bono is at the Crawford Ranch

Man, that was an easy google.

Here's a link to the time that bono had lunch with GWB at the White House in 2005

So were we gonna follow up on this or is this just one of those things we said that we'll convieniently ignore then use the "they hate them at the time then love them after" line again later like nothing ever happened?

[Cameron]

Probably the latter, Travis.

[Watch Out Pylon!]

Man, that was an easy google.

Here's a link to the time that bono had lunch with GWB at the White House in 2005

So were we gonna follow up on this or is this just one of those things we said that we'll convieniently ignore then use the "they hate them at the time then love them after" line again later like nothing ever happened?

You already know the answer to this.

[Robert J Sakimano]

Hate'm while they're in office - love them when they're out. All a bunch of damned hypocrites.

 

[Travis of the Cosmos]

Bob it's Saturday go home

[GRR Spartan]

Its amazing the depths folks will go to justfy their support of Trump.

Next thing you know we'll see talking heads on a national cable news network talking about another faux political assassination.

In passing I read where the Winter White House is being replaced by the New Jersey county club Trump owns for the summer weekends. Good thing he's got 3 to go to from DC. Poor guy couldn't golf last week because he couldn't get to Scotland and the EU makes it too hard to build new course on the continent.

[Herbie Green]

Kurt Schlichter‏Verified account @KurtSchlichter  1h1 hour ago

Trump was clear the Euros need to carry their weight and they were offended.
Liberals sided with foreigners over US taxpayers & military.

Do you have any data on that?

97% of Goose's posts are idiotic bullshit

[Cameron]

[...]

The drug war and the criminalization of blackness have been (mostly deliberate) ways to continue slavery.

[...]

Have any of you seen 13th?  It's a little propaganda-ish but very good.

Just finished 13th. It was very one-sided (though that's not to say that it was inaccurate), and when it did present opposing viewpoints, it was only in instances where those opposing viewpoints were manifestly ridiculous (Grover Norquist, the guy from ALEC). My takeaway was largely that the Prison Industrial Complex is terrible (something I already knew and agreed with), and also that police and prosecutors bear a lot of blame (again, not news to me, I have precious little positive to say about either group).

I would like you to clarify or expound a bit on what you mean by criminalization of blackness, so I can ascertain whether or not we're in agreement on that point.

[...]

I disagree that there's a "criminalization of blackness". The vast majority of black crimes are against other black folk and this is confirmed in the National Crime Surveys that correlate 1:1 with the crime stats. Crime IS a problem within the black community. They are disproportionately the major source of violent crime, most of the time against one another. It's not some phantom fiction. But every time we have this debate I fail to also state that yes.... this crime problem is real, but no, I don't blame them. It's not their fault.

We know that children raised in fatherless homes are far more likely to grow up to be poor and engage in crime. Regardless of racial lines. [...]

I think this is an important point, and it can be framed in multiple ways. I think the implementation of various things such as the War on Drugs tends to be self-perpetuating, either by design or by happenstance. Minorities are more likely to be arrested for drug offenses than whites, even though whites are equally likely (if not moreso, depending on what statistics you look at) to use drugs. This leads to more minorities growing up fatherless, making them more likely to be incarcerated and leave their own children without fathers. If one ignores certain aspects, it's easy to view it as a problem with "black culture" or some such, and thus feel little sympathy for those communities. I think we all know which philosophies lend themselves to such a viewpoint.

Okay there's a lot going on in this post.  Let me try to succinctly zero in on them:

1.  I don't think that the fact that there is a high prevalence of black on black crime tells us anything about the criminalization of blackness that I talked about.  Politicians discovered long ago that having an "other" to rally the voting public against was beneficial.  As such, with black people, there is a built-in "other" in the U.S. Dog whistle words have changed over the generations, (from law and order, to war on crime, to war on drugs, to blue lives matter) but the strategy is the same, mobilize white voters through fear of the "other" and use that fear to build vast institutions that provide profit (in various forms) to white people at the expense of blacks.  I'm sure you'll have thoughts about 13th, and I'd like you to start another thread about it when you watch it (and fact-check it).  We can talk more about that then.

[...]

One more bone for you: Is is possible that some agreement to expansion of welfare programs on the right was considered to have the additional benefit of neutering black power movements?  I certainly wouldn't rule it out.  

1. The "otherness" phenomenon that you mention is definitely real. I think Trump's campaign and election proved that beyond any doubt. There was a bit in 13th that was striking. It juxtaposed old black and white footage of a crowd of white men shoving and hitting a black man who was trying to walk away with footage from a Trump rally of a bunch of white guys shoving a black woman who was not resisting physically in any way (she wasn't walking away, though, because she was completely encircled). It was among the most affecting parts of 13th, in my opinion.

Regarding your last point, I am inclined to agree with you. I don't know that I would pin it exclusively on the right (I don't know that I wouldn't, either, mind you), but I think it's virtually incontrovertible that there are forces working behind the scenes that wield a great deal of influence who will do whatever it takes to maintain the "racial hierarchy," if you will. And those forces have proven time and time again to be ruthlessly calculating and far more devious than most decent people can even fathom.

[tGreenWay]

Mother of God, Bob was posting on a Saturday??? Do you have any idea what this could mean? If he liked doing it, he could show up here more often!

[tGreenWay]

Oh, and not for nothing, but speaking of Grover Norquist, did you know he's married to a Muslim woman? Remember when he was accused by Glenn Beck of being a secret Muslim, too? Good times.

[Rocinante]

Good stuff Cam, I'm not in the mood for posting tonight but we'll discuss more soon.

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