AS MICHIGAN STATE ALUMS WE HAVE A FUCKING VOICE - WE SHOULD USE IT

Sexual assault is a sticky situation. I think the justice system struggles to meter justice. I'm not sure you can even talk about it without fear of retribution.

Can / should the school do more than abide by the current process and legal system? Can / did the school do more? Has the school improved?

Does the public have a right to the details while the press can run wild with opinions. Tough stuff to address without coming across the wrong way.

SawGreen wrote:Sexual assault is a sticky situation. I think the justice system struggles to meter justice. I'm not sure you can even talk about it without fear of retribution.

Can / should the school do more than abide by the current process and legal system? Can / did the school do more? Has the school improved?

Does the public have a right to the details while the press can run wild with opinions.  Tough stuff to address without coming across the wrong way.

To answer your last question, no. My wife works for a University and on Title IX cases and they are suppossed to be private. Hence why MSU tried to deny FOA requests and heavily redacted incident reports.

Nordic wrote:

SawGreen wrote:Sexual assault is a sticky situation. I think the justice system struggles to meter justice. I'm not sure you can even talk about it without fear of retribution.

Can / should the school do more than abide by the current process and legal system? Can / did the school do more? Has the school improved?

Does the public have a right to the details while the press can run wild with opinions.  Tough stuff to address without coming across the wrong way.

To answer your last question, no. My wife works for a University and on Title IX cases and they are suppossed to be private. Hence why MSU tried to deny FOA requests and heavily redacted incident reports.

Right. And I agree. And it makes it too easy for folks people to make accusations of a cover-up. If MSU played by the rules, the rules need to be communicated effectively.

yeah and I am totally for removing any connection in our threads with the OTL/ESPN "news" away from anything Nassar related.

gHost Spartan wrote:Rods can merge with the other thread but goddamit we have a fucking voice. If there are rebuttals to ESPN's hit piece then we, a collective of Spartans, should do something about it -

Look, the Nasser situation is a shit show and MSU deserves to get raked over the coals for their mishandling of the situation....

HOWEVER, the shit involving Izzo, Coach D, A Payne, Appling and the football/basketball programs deserve some much-needed context. I am willing to dedicate significant time and resources to creating a point by point rebuttal to the ESPN hit piece.

I am outraged that men who were not even charged with crimes are having their lives ruined. As an attorney who has spent the last 12 years both defending indigent clients and prosecuting child abuse, I firmly believe that everyone is entitled to due process. Fucking sickens me.

If Appling and Payne are guilty then so be it, let them rot in prison. But they were not even charged.

And it fuucking sickens me that just because Appling has made very poor decisions and committed criminal acts (was he convicted? I honestly don't know, assume so) that does not mean he's guilty of sexual assault.

Seriously, fuck this - fuck this all over the place. I have so many ideas on things we can do. But we need help. Smart resourceful people committed to defending our beloved university.

Help me. Send me a PM. Let's share ideas. I will dedicated significant time to this.

You and Tanny should sue the fuck out of ESPN, bro.

ESPN is piggybacking shit that happens at every school onto the really nasty nasser shit. Simon and Hollis did deserve to go for that. But Izzo and Dantonio shouldn't go down for this.

That being said I think Izzo does retire this year especially if he validates 2000 with another natty. He can turn the keys over to Dane.

I have to think that there will be reports outlining the incidents. Couch seemed to be one initially scoffing at these incidents, so maybe it will be him. Solari should, but i don't see it coming from him. Give it time for those to be researched, but eventually it will be written (and buried deep in websites, blocked from google searches).

But until a real journalist writes about it, I've just been reading threads on the various boards. I don't know how biased/factual this is, but this is what I've found about what seems to be the most eyebrow raising issues in the OTL report:

Travis Walton. Last night between the game and Izzo's presser, FOX kept harping on how Walton was allowed to keep coaching after the accusations. People are saying that Izzo let the legal system play out then fired Walton once the truth was known. Someone also said that he was allowed to travel with the team at the request (if not direction) of a judge. That will be an interesting point if true. If true.

Dantonio handled one case internally when he only made the player tell his mom, according to OTL. Word is that this player was also kicked off the team, and MD told him to tell his mom why he was kicked off. I believe people also mentioned that there was a police investigation that did not file charges.

16 alleged incidents in 10 years, with the number of players in the program during that time, this is a lower frequency of alleged incidents than is the norm among the general population of college students nationally. This in no way makes those incidents ok, just providing context for the "out of control" narrative.

gHost Spartan wrote:Rods can merge with the other thread but goddamit we have a fucking voice. If there are rebuttals to ESPN's hit piece then we, a collective of Spartans, should do something about it -

Look, the Nasser situation is a shit show and MSU deserves to get raked over the coals for their mishandling of the situation....

HOWEVER, the shit involving Izzo, Coach D, A Payne, Appling and the football/basketball programs deserve some much-needed context. I am willing to dedicate significant time and resources to creating a point by point rebuttal to the ESPN hit piece.

I am outraged that men who were not even charged with crimes are having their lives ruined. As an attorney who has spent the last 12 years both defending indigent clients and prosecuting child abuse, I firmly believe that everyone is entitled to due process. Fucking sickens me.

If Appling and Payne are guilty then so be it, let them rot in prison. But they were not even charged.

And it fuucking sickens me that just because Appling has made very poor decisions and committed criminal acts (was he convicted? I honestly don't know, assume so) that does not mean he's guilty of sexual assault.

Seriously, fuck this - fuck this all over the place. I have so many ideas on things we can do. But we need help. Smart resourceful people committed to defending our beloved university.

Help me. Send me a PM. Let's share ideas. I will dedicated significant time to this.

What are your ideas?

MiamiSpartan wrote:I have to think that there will be reports outlining the incidents. Couch seemed to be one initially scoffing at these incidents, so maybe it will be him. Solari should, but i don't see it coming from him. Give it time for those to be researched, but eventually it will be written (and buried deep in websites, blocked from google searches).

But until a real journalist writes about it, I've just been reading threads on the various boards. I don't know how biased/factual this is, but this is what I've found about what seems to be the most eyebrow raising issues in the OTL report:

Travis Walton. Last night between the game and Izzo's presser, FOX kept harping on how Walton was allowed to keep coaching after the accusations. People are saying that Izzo let the legal system play out then fired Walton once the truth was known. Someone also said that he was allowed to travel with the team at the request (if not direction) of a judge. That will be an interesting point if true. If true.

Dantonio handled one case internally when he only made the player tell his mom, according to OTL. Word is that this player was also kicked off the team, and MD told him to tell his mom why he was kicked off. I believe people also mentioned that there was a police investigation that did not file charges.

16 alleged incidents in 10 years, with the number of players in the program during that time, this is a lower frequency of alleged incidents than is the norm among the general population of college students nationally. This in no way makes those incidents ok, just providing context for the "out of control" narrative.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/01/26/michigan-state-basketball-tom-izzo-travis-walton-assault-woman

Agree about the Walton story and what was alarming and raises more questions for me is a woman told the athletic department Walton and 2 other players raped her. Question who were the two other players and why did she go to the university and not the police?

Thankfully it should get lost in the shuffle. Released on a Friday. Super Bowl hype starts mon and state of union on tue.

As long as there are no new incidents this will fade. It will still be there and Walmart Wolverine will make snide comments but the fire them all drumbeats won't be heard.

yeah I suppose them firing their bullets now is great PR wise Doc, release this in June.... but then again releasing it in June they would have had a harder time connecting it to unrelated things...

yesterday it flooded ESPN front page and was front and center... now...

Leveon having CMD and Izzos back, meanwhile D;antonoinon

They can’t even spell his name right and it looks like they do it to make a slight at him. Saw another tweet where they called him ‘Mike’. It’s amateurish.

steveschneider wrote:They can’t even spell his name right and it looks like they do it to make a slight at him. Saw another tweet where they called him ‘Mike’. It’s amateurish.

ESPN is a flaming pile of trash anymore.....from top to bottom.

They just caved and demoted Jemele. If you have beliefs, have the backbone to stand up for them.

Don’t worry guys. The president will do something fucking nuts and this will get pushed off the front page soon.

LooseGoose wrote:

steveschneider wrote:They can’t even spell his name right and it looks like they do it to make a slight at him. Saw another tweet where they called him ‘Mike’. It’s amateurish.

ESPN is a flaming pile of trash anymore.....from top to bottom.

They just caved and demoted Jemele. If you have beliefs, have the backbone to stand up for them.

Jamele issued a statement and she said she moved on her own. She wants to get back to reporting.

steveschneider wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

ESPN is a flaming pile of trash anymore.....from top to bottom.

They just caved and demoted Jemele. If you have beliefs, have the backbone to stand up for them.

Jamele issued a statement and she said she moved on her own. She wants to get back to reporting.

Those in the public eye at a company like Disney have to toe the company line and she has never been that way. Throw in the fact she's a black woman... she gets skewered all over the interwebs especially (warning tBin) Trump supporters.

steveschneider wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

ESPN is a flaming pile of trash anymore.....from top to bottom.

They just caved and demoted Jemele. If you have beliefs, have the backbone to stand up for them.

Jamele issued a statement and she said she moved on her own. She wants to get back to reporting.

I know she did. I don't think that's the real story. She probably needed to issue that to keep peace and collecting her contract.
I don't blame her for that but I also don't think she chose to leave the prime time spot on her own.

I just realized that "insensitive" has become a very, very powerful word. Once applied, it's pretty hard to shake. So gHost, maybe you can address that?

I'm probably the most horrible person I know because I am to a terrible degree, insensitive. I can't change what has already happened, and when I sense an injustice, I usually ponder how to prevent future injustice. Point being, and back to, what HAS the University done? What changes have been made from a process perspective?

I sometimes wonder if MSU, at least in some instances, isn't being held accountable for things they have put out in the open (and people ignored because it wasn't news worthy) vs. some institutions that have done a better job keeping things hidden. (obviously not in the case of Nassar)

lost in all this yesterday I failed to notice something some people are retweeting that occurred right after OTL released their "report" , this tweet from Hunter Rison....



https://twitter.com/hunterrison/status/956982968886681601


Now I am not all up and up on the all this new generations lingo but apparently some of our younger spartan fans are... and they responded.

@SpartanDrew21
Replying to @hunterrison
Gave you support even after you left, thanks though. No support anymore

@AdamHall2013
16h16 hours ago
Replying to @hunterrison
Classy just like your pops haha

@jbernhardt1981
3h3 hours ago
Replying to @hunterrison
You have zero class! Good luck.

@GAINESGromek
16h16 hours ago
Replying to @hunterrison
You are not a Dawg nor will you ever be.  Bailed cause too much competition LOL. Enjoy the prairie.

MattyFresh wrote:lost in all this yesterday I failed to notice something some people are retweeting that occurred right after OTL released their "report" , this tweet from Hunter Rison....



https://twitter.com/hunterrison/status/956982968886681601


Now I am not all up and up on the all this new generations lingo but apparently some of our younger spartan fans are... and they responded.

@SpartanDrew21
Replying to @hunterrison
Gave you support even after you left, thanks though. No support anymore

@AdamHall2013
16h16 hours ago
Replying to @hunterrison
Classy just like your pops haha

@jbernhardt1981
3h3 hours ago
Replying to @hunterrison
You have zero class! Good luck.

@GAINESGromek
16h16 hours ago
Replying to @hunterrison
You are not a Dawg nor will you ever be.  Bailed cause too much competition LOL. Enjoy the prairie.

I wish our fans would just take the high road on this shit. I still wish him the best.

This is interesting. Looks like the same author.

http://www.espn.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/111518/otl-msu-athletes-accused-of-crimes-face-same-prosecution-rate-as-non-athletes

https://deadspin.com/report-ncaa-president-mark-emmert-was-personally-infor-1822470340

yeah I ve been trying to do a little more research on sexual assault nationwide instead of taking what has been reported and the first thing I remember seeing was something about the armed forces, like in 2012 there were 25000 claims of sexual assault, of which like 2500 did the claimant pursue charges and like 250 of those were they able to convict.

still going through this report, I mean I knew this was a huge issue, stinks to have your university put under the microscope like you are an outlier.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

Not good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/27/us/michigan-state-nassar-fitzgerald.html

steveschneider wrote:Not good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/27/us/michigan-state-nassar-fitzgerald.html

Steve I thought everyone was picking up on this is the area more for the crap ESPN spewed. Nassar has a thread.... mods

https://twitter.com/sparty__88/status/957364271394025473/photo/1

steveschneider wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

ESPN is a flaming pile of trash anymore.....from top to bottom.

They just caved and demoted Jemele. If you have beliefs, have the backbone to stand up for them.

Jamele issued a statement and she said she moved on her own. She wants to get back to reporting.

Jemele is a quality person and deserves better than ESPN.

aualum06 wrote:https://twitter.com/sparty__88/status/957364271394025473/photo/1

Yep, see the link I posted in #24.

http://www.espn.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/111518/otl-msu-athletes-accused-of-crimes-face-same-prosecution-rate-as-non-athletes

OTL: Accused MSU athletes faced same prosecution rate as non-athletes

Matty - we can't move individual posts out of a thread and into another one. But I agree, Nassar stuff should stay out of MSU Athletic sexual assault threads.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

aualum06 wrote:https://twitter.com/sparty__88/status/957364271394025473/photo/1

Yep, see the link I posted in #24.

http://www.espn.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/111518/otl-msu-athletes-accused-of-crimes-face-same-prosecution-rate-as-non-athletes

OTL: Accused MSU athletes faced same prosecution rate as non-athletes

Florida state over twice the amount of incidents

honestly ZERO intention of discovering that it was scUM in the most recent national survey, but...

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2015/06/25/survey-22-female-students-michigan-sexually-assaulted

aualum06 wrote:https://twitter.com/sparty__88/status/957364271394025473/photo/1

Good stuff. I hope we fight back.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

aualum06 wrote:https://twitter.com/sparty__88/status/957364271394025473/photo/1

Yep, see the link I posted in #24.

http://www.espn.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/111518/otl-msu-athletes-accused-of-crimes-face-same-prosecution-rate-as-non-athletes

OTL: Accused MSU athletes faced same prosecution rate as non-athletes

And that's the story that caused the suit/countersuit fight between MSU and ESPN, right?

MiamiSpartan wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Yep, see the link I posted in #24.

http://www.espn.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/111518/otl-msu-athletes-accused-of-crimes-face-same-prosecution-rate-as-non-athletes

And that's the story that caused the suit/countersuit fight between MSU and ESPN, right?

I believe so because they basically had to sue everyone to get their information because it wasn't and shouldnt be public. Click on Notre Dame in that link. They sued and lost their information request.

You guys work on a rough draft and I'll review it.

What does the Hunter Rison tweet mean? Bachie has responded "Family history doesn't matter?"

SawGreen wrote:What does the Hunter Rison tweet mean? Bachie has responded "Family history doesn't matter?"

All I could gather was that it was disrespectful. The responses are pretty harsh.

It's a shoulder shrug. Like Oh Well, not my problem.