AS MICHIGAN STATE ALUMS WE HAVE A FUCKING VOICE - WE SHOULD USE IT

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Re: matty's article: I read that. I didn't think it was very good. There were facts missing.

Someone said it earlier - I suspect a better journalist will take this cause up at some point next week and do a better job with research and facts.

Pylon: Barstool MSU's twitter account

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Re: matty's article: I read that. I didn't think it was very good. There were facts missing.

Someone said it earlier - I suspect a better journalist will take this cause up at some point next week and do a better job with research and facts.

Pylon: Barstool MSU's twitter account

And now it's deleted. Fucking cowards. Has anyone asked the question about where they got this info?

Cameron wrote:As an MSU alum, I'm using my voice to say that I'm deeply troubled by the handling of Title IX investigations by my alma mater over the past decade plus. I don't care how other universities handle this shit, whether the rate of sexual assaults is in line with that of the general population, etc. I want MSU to be a shining example of moral authority. I want anyone who looked the other way or swept anything under the rug gone. I want anyone who did the bare minimum as required by law and nothing more gone. I want people in positions of power whom I'm proud to have represent me. I am willing to wait for all the facts to come out, but I am concurrently insistent that all the facts do come out. I will not accept obscurantism, I will not accept obfuscation. I don't care if it is done for the purposes of maintaining grants, funding, recruiting, or what ever else, I want to know the truth, and I want to know the whole truth. As an alumnus and a taxpayer, I firmly believe that I am owed that much.

I love Izzo and Dantonio for the joys they have brought me as a fan. And I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they have acted in good faith as decent human beings. But I am taking a wait and see approach. There are (at least) two sides to every story, and so far we've mostly only gotten one side. If the other side of the story is not compelling, then changes need to be made, consequences (to the university and the success of the athletic department) be damned. Because right now, this shit is not looking good, and I'm not particularly proud to call myself a Spartan.

steveschneider wrote:

Cameron wrote:As an MSU alum, I'm using my voice to say that I'm deeply troubled by the handling of Title IX investigations by my alma mater over the past decade plus. I don't care how other universities handle this shit, whether the rate of sexual assaults is in line with that of the general population, etc. I want MSU to be a shining example of moral authority. I want anyone who looked the other way or swept anything under the rug gone. I want anyone who did the bare minimum as required by law and nothing more gone. I want people in positions of power whom I'm proud to have represent me. I am willing to wait for all the facts to come out, but I am concurrently insistent that all the facts do come out. I will not accept obscurantism, I will not accept obfuscation. I don't care if it is done for the purposes of maintaining grants, funding, recruiting, or what ever else, I want to know the truth, and I want to know the whole truth. As an alumnus and a taxpayer, I firmly believe that I am owed that much.

I love Izzo and Dantonio for the joys they have brought me as a fan. And I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they have acted in good faith as decent human beings. But I am taking a wait and see approach. There are (at least) two sides to every story, and so far we've mostly only gotten one side. If the other side of the story is not compelling, then changes need to be made, consequences (to the university and the success of the athletic department) be damned. Because right now, this shit is not looking good, and I'm not particularly proud to call myself a Spartan.

Spot on.

DWags wrote:Can, with the exception of Walton, we pretty much know Izzo Dantonio’s side of the story. Baring any earth shattering revelation.

The Nassar stuff, there isn’t a Spartan alive that doesn’t want justice.

ESPN is tying them together. Some people think that’s not fair.

Cameron wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Spot on.

steveschneider wrote:

Cameron wrote:

These are dark times and I call for a very temporary armistice to our feud until this dies down. Spartan nation needs to come together. Trust me I’ll go back to standing up to your contemptible bs when the time is right but for now we need to stay united and have each others backs.

gHost Spartan wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Here are my thoughts, before I start drinking.

1. 7 alleged sexual assaults between MBB and FB in 11 years is too many, whether it lines up percentage wise with the general student population or not. Tough subject, but we must do better all around. I don't know what the answer is. Campus leaders, including Izzo and Dantonio have to do better.
2. It is really starting to appear that this is indeed a big old "nothing burger". The only difference between the 2015 OTL report and yesterday's OTL report is that ESPN had the details of the cases in which charges were not brought. The fact remains, charges were not brought. You really do have to wonder if ESPN was motivated by something more than clicks.
3. We do not know how Dantonio (and Izzo) handled discipline in these cases. It appears that when made aware, at least some of the football players were kicked off of the team, despite not being charged. I read more reports today about the Payne/Appling situation. PAYNE DID NOT ADMIT TO RAPE. Bullshit. I saw this being floated around yesterday. He said she could have left whenever she wanted to, he stopped when she said stop, and Appling talked her into starting again. He said she didn't say stop again and if he had, he would have helped her. Multiple people (3) in the ICPO decided it was not a crime. I'm not sure Izzo SHOULD have done anything at all.
4. The Walton stuff - who knows. News to all of us I think. Hard to kill Izzo over it when we don't know what happened. If there were indeed 2 other players who were accused of a rape with Walton, that is concerning. But we don't know shit, and neither does ESPN it would appear.
5. Let's see what the investigation turns up. If it turns up more evidence that Izzo and Dantonio influenced the PD or ICPO or participated in extensive cover ups, then they should be fired.
6. It sounds like our Title IX office is a bunch of incompetent buffoons who may have tried to cover things up, or may have just been trying to protect students privacy. But "losing stuff" in re: to Nassar has me leaning towards the former.
7. If nothing more comes out about FB/MBB....realize that while not justified, our reputation is ruined to the average college sports fan. No one will care if Dantonio and Izzo are vindicated, because the mob only wants heads to roll in the moment, and then they move on. MSU will forever be associated in those circles with Baylor and PSU. Might as well accept this now. And we're going to take another hit tomorrow when ESPN airs the entire piece. Be prepared, and just hope that they weren't withholding information in their online piece, which I doubt they were.
8. Outrage on this is going to fade quickly, to Strangelove's point. With no new info, national focus is going to shift to the Super Bowl and the State of the Union. There is going to be so much outrage from the mob come the State of the Union there won't be any left for MSU. Patience, things will settle down.

Nice summary, WBH -

I agree that this made fade in time but I still think that we need to act. MSU may not have the leadership or balls to act, but why can't a group of us create a timeline, list all the players, analyze the documents, and go after ESPN? I'll fucking drive up there myself and interview the OTL reporters and grill them on inconsistencies and get their statements. Fuck this -

IF we are wrong then we are wrong, goodbye MSU athletics. But I don't think Coach D would stand up like he did last night and tell the world he did nothing wrong.

Cameron wrote:

DWags wrote:Can, with the exception of Walton, we pretty much know Izzo Dantonio’s side of the story. Baring any earth shattering revelation.

The Nassar stuff, there isn’t a Spartan alive that doesn’t want justice.

ESPN is tying them together. Some people think that’s not fair.

It might not be fair. I don't really care about "fair" at the moment. The Appling/Payne rape accusation bothered me for a while, then I kind of forgot about it. The fact that they were apparently never penalized at all doesn't sit well with me, considering everything else that has gone on. It may not be fair to reconsider how I feel about that incident in light of the Nassar stuff, but I'm doing it anyway, and so are many others. The revelation that Walton and two other basketball players were accused of sexual assault is new to me, and quite disturbing.

In regards to Dantonio and the football program, I'm not okay with the idea that a football player who was credibly accused of rape was merely made to tell his mother why he was kicked off the team. If you think an accusation is credible enough to kick a guy off the team, then the accusation is also credible enough to report to the police. As I said before, I'm willing to wait for all the facts to come out. But I want all the facts to come out. I don't think the university as a whole has earned the benefit of the doubt in regards to sexual assault allegations and Title IX stuff (which is sad). I want every detail made public to the fullest extent allowable under the law.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Cameron wrote:

It might not be fair. I don't really care about "fair" at the moment. The Appling/Payne rape accusation bothered me for a while, then I kind of forgot about it. The fact that they were apparently never penalized at all doesn't sit well with me, considering everything else that has gone on. It may not be fair to reconsider how I feel about that incident in light of the Nassar stuff, but I'm doing it anyway, and so are many others. The revelation that Walton and two other basketball players were accused of sexual assault is new to me, and quite disturbing.

In regards to Dantonio and the football program, I'm not okay with the idea that a football player who was credibly accused of rape was merely made to tell his mother why he was kicked off the team. If you think an accusation is credible enough to kick a guy off the team, then the accusation is also credible enough to report to the police. As I said before, I'm willing to wait for all the facts to come out. But I want all the facts to come out. I don't think the university as a whole has earned the benefit of the doubt in regards to sexual assault allegations and Title IX stuff (which is sad). I want every detail made public to the fullest extent allowable under the law.

Cameron, did you read the police report again on Appling/Payne case? The one with quotes from AP?

Also....I'm too lazy to link back to it and find it. Are you sure that the "tell your mom what you did" case was one of the "rape" allegations? I don't recall them being tied the 3-4x that I read it.

Cameron wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Cameron, did you read the police report again on Appling/Payne case? The one with quotes from AP?

Also....I'm too lazy to link back to it and find it. Are you sure that the "tell your mom what you did" case was one of the "rape" allegations? I don't recall them being tied the 3-4x that I read it.

RE: Appling/Payne - My recollections are that one claimed to have stopped when she said stop, the other didn't talk to police.

The other, perhaps it wasn't "rape," I'm too inebriated to recall clearly. But I think it was some variety of sexual assault, for which the police ought to be involved. Just telling your mom doesn't seem like enough to me.

gHost Spartan wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Fuck man, I think I just want to stop thinking and watch the games and dial back my level of enthusiasm quite a bit. I just read the police report again and I went from disgusted at her claims to "I see how that could have been the case" reading AP's statements. I just don't know anymore. I don't want to have to be judge and jury before deciding who to root for in a college basketball game. I just want to have something to cheer for and be able to forget that it's late January in Michigan and I have to wake up in 6 hours to get my kids off to school and return to the office to find out a client is pissed at me and has escalated shit to my Director. This shit is becoming too heavy.

I have read police reports in the past and immediately thought the defendant should get the chair only to (later) find out that the information contained therein was inaccurate. Look, it's a very difficult situation and us Spartans are all gonna suffer a lot in the coming months but man... show me the fucking smoking gun... please

I trust that Izzo is a good man and made the right decision. He wouldn't pay players and he's kicked guys off the team. Same with Coach D. Someone compile a list of all the guys kicked off hoops and football since these two arrived and I bet it's extensive. Why would he keep these two guys?

I trust and believe our coaches until I see the evidence proving otherwise. And no, some dipshit ESPN reporter isn't going to sway my opinion.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:So are y'all gonna watch the show this morning? I've seen enough excerpts - it'll just lead me to frustration and anger (for many reasons).

steveschneider wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:So are y'all gonna watch the show this morning? I've seen enough excerpts - it'll just lead me to frustration and anger (for many reasons).

I will watch.

Cameron wrote:In regards to Dantonio and the football program, I'm not okay with the idea that a football player who was credibly accused of rape was merely made to tell his mother why he was kicked off the team. If you think an accusation is credible enough to kick a guy off the team, then the accusation is also credible enough to report to the police.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I will watch.

I might watch too. Even though my instincts as a Dad whose daughter is enrolling at MSU in the fall makes me sick.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I will watch.

I might watch too. Even though my instincts as a Dad whose daughter is enrolling at MSU in the fall makes me sick.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: I might watch too. Even though my instincts as a Dad whose daughter is enrolling at MSU in the fall makes me sick.

I'm sure as a level headed father you'll be able to offer her some common sense tips to remain safe on the MSU or any other campus.

gHost Spartan wrote:According to posters on tCock, Ash-Liz's mother tweeted that her daughter was raped by 4 football players

I have said this from the very beginning, when she first started posting on the Cock - those posters over there were BRUTAL to her and I felt possibly contributed to her suicide. That girl had some serious issues that seem to go far beyond any issues with the football players. We obviously don't know what happened and never will. RIP

gHost Spartan wrote:According to posters on tCock, Ash-Liz's mother tweeted that her daughter was raped by 4 football players

I have said this from the very beginning, when she first started posting on the Cock - those posters over there were BRUTAL to her and I felt possibly contributed to her suicide. That girl had some serious issues that seem to go far beyond any issues with the football players. We obviously don't know what happened and never will. RIP

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

I'm sure as a level headed father you'll be able to offer her some common sense tips to remain safe on the MSU or any other campus.

I shall do my best.

Da Mayor wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: I might watch too. Even though my instincts as a Dad whose daughter is enrolling at MSU in the fall makes me sick.

As long as your daughter doesn't suck a dick at a party, regret it the next morning, then try to construe it as rape, she'll be fine.