Santa Fe School Shooting.

For those of you not up to speed.....

Goose has advanced the theory of these shooters being copy cat killers (because of the media). But we aren't allowed to discuss the part of copying where a gun is used in all of these killings. They're not copying that part.

kingstonlake wrote:For those of you not up to speed.....

Goose has advanced the theory of these shooters being copy cat killers (because of the media). But we aren't allowed to discuss the part of copying where a gun is used in all of these killings. They're not copying that part.

Again. Tell me where I said that?

I've done my best to answer questions, provide facts and it seems to piss you off.

And as far as slowing down, I will at some point but I'm trying to answer questions, otherwise the next accusation is how I'm dodging the hard questions.

One of you ought to go investigate how much money those rich gun manufacturers are donating to politicians. It's laughably small for
most of them that I could find.

Colt $60K
Remington averages $50K or so.
Olin Corp - Winchester $100K or so.

A drop in the bucket.

kingstonlake wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Compared to the $750,000,000 to $1Billion spent per party in each election by the various Presidential campaigns over the last 2-3 cycles that's again pretty small potatoes.

Why are we moving on from copy cat killers to lobbying being small potatoes. Slow down a little. I'm not constantly by my phone debating, I have a life.

I wasn't just responding to you. The subject has come up over and over about how the NRA is buying politicians. Obviously the $$ matters some but most of the NRA's power is at the ballot box. They can sway millions of votes - to a politician that's power.

I'm not an NRA member and never have been but I listen to them when they make an endorsement. Both of my sons are members which is really going to throw a wrench into OTPT's "wait for them all to die" plan.

I don't agree with them on everything but I doubt that I agree on everything with anyone or any organization. But in the main I think they're right. I may join this year because of the stupid "The NRA is a terrorist organization" shit. I've never had anyone make sense of that for me.

And for Cameron since he seems to sincerely want to talk - my list from yesterday.   As I said not polished or complete but at least a list of things that could be done politically that might help.
======================================
1) Encourage more people to say something.   Most of these shooters tip themselves off
long before they act.   Orlando, Parkland, San Bernadino, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech - all
could have been stopped.   Las Vegas is one where this would have not seemed to help
but I still believe the GF knew something bad was about to happen.  

Law enforcement can be more pro active without breaking the law.  When law enforcement
gets a tip they need to investigate.  Set up reward funds if it turns out that the authorities
uncover concrete planning for a killing.

2) Prosecute for breaking existing laws.  For example in 2010: There over 75,000 failed
background checks - 62 people were prosecuted.   That sucks.

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/05/lie-and-try-prohibited-gun-buying/

3) Get rid of gun free zones.  They accomplish nothing but disarming law abiding citizens.
A criminal laughs at them and they give the public a false sense of security.  Make any
possible shooter at least consider there might be an armed citizen present.

4) Allow school employees with proper training to carry.  As much as this is scoffed at
I believe just planting the uncertainty would help.   Having a sprinkling of armed teachers,
custodians, aides and administrators would stop shootings early and save lives.  It may
have just done so in Santa Fe.  It did do so in IL last week.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/16/dixon-illinois-school-resource-officer-thwarts-mass-shooting/615519002/

5) Allocate additional federal funding for mental health and pass laws allowing people to be
committed within guidelines for some limited period of treatment.  This ties back to #1.

6)  Ask the media to minimize the use of pictures/names for the killers.  Cover the crimes
all they want, talk about the tragedy but don't publicize the shooter more than necessary.

7) Bump stocks should go because they make a semi automatic fire too fast.  Machine
guns have been heavily regulated for decades, bump stocks should join them.

8) Expand background checks and eliminate the time limit.  According to Mother Jones most
of the guns used in mass killings were legally obtained so this might not do much.

9) If you're really serious about reducing homicides in the US then you start with handguns
since they're used in the vast majority of gun related killings.  And yes that includes some
of the worst mass killings.  Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc.

10) "Assault weapons" bans are bunk so don't waste political capital.   AR-15's aren't more lethal
than Grandpa's deer rifle no matter how many times that you read they are.  If you doubt me do
this - find an old hunter that's shot lots of game over the years.  Tell him he's about to be shot, but
he gets to choose the weapon used on him.  Choices are:

A) an AR-15 chambered in .223.  - the most common round for ARs
B)A Winchester Model 1894 chambered in 30-30 - along with the 30-.06 probably
C)A Remington 742 (circa 1960 or so) chambered in 30-.06 - the most popular deer round in MI.

I'll guarantee 90%+ will choose "A".   I don't care the yardage, 30-50-100 yards either
of those deer rounds are much more lethal.

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Yeah, masturbation is just like abortion. Christ Wags.

Why not?

You and Stan work that one out with Nigel.

LooseGoose wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:For those of you not up to speed.....

Goose has advanced the theory of these shooters being copy cat killers (because of the media). But we aren't allowed to discuss the part of copying where a gun is used in all of these killings. They're not copying that part.

Again. Tell me where I said that?

I've done my best to answer questions, provide facts and it seems to piss you off.

And as far as slowing down, I will at some point but I'm trying to answer questions, otherwise the next accusation is how I'm dodging the hard questions.

One of you ought to go investigate how much money those rich gun manufacturers are donating to politicians. It's laughably small for
most of them that I could find.

Colt $60K
Remington averages $50K or so.
Olin Corp - Winchester $100K or so.

A drop in the bucket.

I've seen you advance a copy cat theory holding the media cupable in part for reporting or glamorizing it. I may have missed it but I didn't see any theory where the shooters are copying the actual shooting part. And certainly not any holding gun manufacturers culpable for the coolness or "man card reinstated" marketing angle.

Can someone please send me a big long article that explains why it's okay for children to be murdered at school?

Thanks!

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: how about posting a picture of a baby grinder? That would help.

Bob - proud to make jokes about aborting babies. Yep, he cares more about life than any of us.

you would be correct.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Can someone please send me a big long article that explains why it's okay for children to be murdered at school?

Thanks!

It's not long but.....

kingstonlake wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Again. Tell me where I said that?

I've done my best to answer questions, provide facts and it seems to piss you off.

And as far as slowing down, I will at some point but I'm trying to answer questions, otherwise the next accusation is how I'm dodging the hard questions.

One of you ought to go investigate how much money those rich gun manufacturers are donating to politicians. It's laughably small for
most of them that I could find.

Colt $60K
Remington averages $50K or so.
Olin Corp - Winchester $100K or so.

A drop in the bucket.

I've seen you advance a copy cat theory holding the media cupable in part for reporting or glamorizing it. I may have missed it but I didn't see any theory where the shooters are copying the actual shooting part. And certainly not any holding gun manufacturers culpable for the coolness or "man card reinstated" marketing angle.

You missed it, I clearly stated in my reply to your post that ad #2 (which was the mancard ad) fit right into the coolness marketing.

Do other manufacturers advertise like that or just one?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Can someone please send me a big long article that explains why it's okay for children to be murdered at school?

Thanks!

Thank you for continuing to demonstrate how much more righteous you are, nothing shows that like some played out snark.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Can someone please send me a big long article that explains why it's okay for children to be murdered at school?

Thanks!

Thank you for continuing to demonstrate how much more righteous you are, nothing shows that like some played out snark.

ya gotta admit.. my snark is the most productive part of this thread.

kingstonlake wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Can someone please send me a big long article that explains why it's okay for children to be murdered at school?

Thanks!

It's not long but.....

the most concise, yet accurate, post in this thread.

kingstonlake wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Can someone please send me a big long article that explains why it's okay for children to be murdered at school?

Thanks!

It's not long but.....

Such an incredibly stupid meme. You know you could end all of this by electing Dems right?

Oh....that's right as I pointed out earlier when they had complete control of the government for 14 months they did nothing.

But at least the Department of Justice under Obama and Eric Holder OK'd the manufacture of bump stocks!

Give your guys credit for that bit of wisdom - a very paranoid person might theorize they decided to sacrifice a few people for more campaign fodder.

Think I'm making that up? Check Politifact - Politifact tries to cover for them by saying they had to legalize them but that's bullshit. They could have obstructed them in a myriad of ways.

Did Obama administration approve bump stocks?

Our ruling
The NRA said, "The Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions."

We indeed found two occasions in which ATF, a bureau within the executive branch, decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.

These decisions allowed two companies to sell bump stocks. It’s important to note this was not a statement of Obama’s preferred policy, which called for more regulation of guns, but was what the agency determined it had to do under the language of current law.

We rate this statement Mostly True.

Not "mostly true" - but "true". It happened when the USGovt could have crushed those little companies.

LooseGoose wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

I've seen you advance a copy cat theory holding the media cupable in part for reporting or glamorizing it. I may have missed it but I didn't see any theory where the shooters are copying the actual shooting part. And certainly not any holding gun manufacturers culpable for the coolness or "man card reinstated" marketing angle.

You missed it, I clearly stated in my reply to your post that ad #2 (which was the mancard ad) fit right into the coolness marketing.

Do other manufacturers advertise like that or just one?

Yeah you said the ad was in "bad taste". Clearly demonstrating how much you hold them accountable.....

LooseGoose wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

It's not long but.....

Such an incredibly stupid meme.   You know you could end all of this by electing Dems right?

Oh....that's right as I pointed out earlier when they had complete control of the government for 14 months they did nothing.  

But at least the Department of Justice under Obama and Eric Holder OK'd the manufacture of bump stocks!

Give your guys credit for that bit of wisdom - a very paranoid person might theorize they decided to sacrifice a few people for more campaign fodder.

Think I'm making that up?   Check Politifact - Politifact tries to cover for them by saying they had to legalize them but that's bullshit.   They could have obstructed them in a myriad of ways.

Did Obama administration approve bump stocks?

Our ruling
The NRA said, "The Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions."

We indeed found two occasions in which ATF, a bureau within the executive branch, decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.

These decisions allowed two companies to sell bump stocks. It’s important to note this was not a statement of Obama’s preferred policy, which called for more regulation of guns, but was what the agency determined it had to do under the language of current law.

We rate this statement Mostly True.

Not "mostly true"   - but "true".   It happened when the USGovt could have crushed those little companies.

.

I hold the entirety of government, gun manfacturers, and the NRA accountable. And the obstructionist. Oh and thanks for pointing out the the Obama administration had no legal right to have them banned as the law was written. Refreshing to see her let law be interpreted instead of thinking he was a dictator. Crazy concept, I know.

kingstonlake wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

You missed it, I clearly stated in my reply to your post that ad #2 (which was the mancard ad) fit right into the coolness marketing.

Do other manufacturers advertise like that or just one?

Yeah you said the ad was in "bad taste". Clearly demonstrating how much you hold them accountable.....

How would flipping out on an obscure message board "hold them accountable" that's delusional.

The ad was in poor taste given current state of affairs. I still believe that but I don't own that gun company so have no control over it.

At the same time you stated that they were advertising to make the guns cool. So you're criticizing a company that is trying to sell a product by making it look cool? See, I may disagree on whether they should run the ad but at the same time they have a right in America to try and make a living advertising what they make.

That goes back to the 1st Amendment and Freedom of Speech. Is that right now on the block too?

LooseGoose wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

Yeah you said the ad was in "bad taste". Clearly demonstrating how much you hold them accountable.....

How would flipping out on an obscure message board "hold them accountable" that's delusional.

The ad was in poor taste given current state of affairs.  I still believe that but I don't own that gun company so have no control over it.

At the same time you stated that they were advertising to make the guns cool.   So you're criticizing a company that is trying to sell a product by making it look cool?  See, I may disagree on whether they should run the ad but at the same time they have a right in America to try and make a living advertising what they make.

That goes back to the 1st Amendment and Freedom of Speech.  Is that right now on the block too?

I get it Goose. In no way culpable. Like the media....

kingstonlake wrote:I hold the entirety of government, gun manfacturers, and the NRA accountable. And the obstructionist.

Not one word or iota of blame for the asshole pulling the trigger - somehow he's just a bit player when compared to the big mean ol' NRA.

LooseGoose wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:I hold the entirety of government, gun manfacturers, and the NRA accountable. And the obstructionist.  

Not one word or iota of blame for the asshole pulling the trigger - somehow he's just a bit player when compared to the big mean ol' NRA.

Kids manufacture guns and run CNN? I thought that's what we were talking about. But of course the trigger puller plays a role in responsibility. Jesus.

LooseGoose wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

It's not long but.....

Such an incredibly stupid meme. You know you could end all of this by electing Dems right?

Oh....that's right as I pointed out earlier when they had complete control of the government for 14 months they did nothing.

But at least the Department of Justice under Obama and Eric Holder OK'd the manufacture of bump stocks!

Give your guys credit for that bit of wisdom - a very paranoid person might theorize they decided to sacrifice a few people for more campaign fodder.

Think I'm making that up? Check Politifact - Politifact tries to cover for them by saying they had to legalize them but that's bullshit. They could have obstructed them in a myriad of ways.

Did Obama administration approve bump stocks?

Our ruling
The NRA said, "The Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions."

We indeed found two occasions in which ATF, a bureau within the executive branch, decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.

These decisions allowed two companies to sell bump stocks. It’s important to note this was not a statement of Obama’s preferred policy, which called for more regulation of guns, but was what the agency determined it had to do under the language of current law.

We rate this statement Mostly True.

Not "mostly true" - but "true". It happened when the USGovt could have crushed those little companies.

OBAMA!!!!

LooseGoose wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Media
Copycats
Cars
Pressure cookers
Trench coats
Social media
Knives

And another of the chorus that has no interest in a discussion involving facts not hysteria.

Call me out again WBH.

"Facts".

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

And another of the chorus that has no interest in a discussion involving facts not hysteria.

Call me out again WBH.

"Facts".

As if you provide any. Once you have someone that can refute your emotionalism you run like the child you are.

TOO MANY DOORS!!!

We're the victims of these school shootings dressed in anyway like they wanted to be shot?

DWags wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:TOO MANY DOORS!!!

They’re neglecting the windows here.

I bet Hillary installed the windows.

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Such an incredibly stupid meme. You know you could end all of this by electing Dems right?

Oh....that's right as I pointed out earlier when they had complete control of the government for 14 months they did nothing.

But at least the Department of Justice under Obama and Eric Holder OK'd the manufacture of bump stocks!

Give your guys credit for that bit of wisdom - a very paranoid person might theorize they decided to sacrifice a few people for more campaign fodder.

Think I'm making that up? Check Politifact - Politifact tries to cover for them by saying they had to legalize them but that's bullshit. They could have obstructed them in a myriad of ways.

Did Obama administration approve bump stocks?



Not "mostly true" - but "true". It happened when the USGovt could have crushed those little companies.

Goose? Who the fuck cares who approved it? Let’s ban them. Are you for that or not?

You'll get crickets

LooseGoose wrote:

DWags wrote:

Supreme Court disagrees about “life”. Maybe we should stop people from master bating.

Yeah, masturbation is just like abortion. Christ Wags.

How many of your posts were edited today?

Next on CNN we're hearing that Hillary Clinton's email account single-handedly aborted 4,473 healthy white babies over the weekend.

Developing....

We did it.

Lol. Won't be hearing from Goose's backwards thinking head again.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Lol. Won't be hearing from Goose's backwards thinking head again.

meh - it's difficult for me to take it serious..

Lasted longer than I thought it would.

Rocinante wrote:Lasted longer than I thought it would.

it was fun while it lasted.. pointing out the pro-gun death cult.

I wasn't as actively annoying/obnoxious as I would've been otherwise, as I generally have things to do over the weekend.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Lasted longer than I thought it would.

it was fun while it lasted.. pointing out the pro-gun death cult.

I wasn't as actively annoying/obnoxious as I would've been otherwise, as I generally have things to do over the weekend.

Did you make it out to the MSU Art & Craft show Bob?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: it was fun while it lasted.. pointing out the pro-gun death cult.

I wasn't as actively annoying/obnoxious as I would've been otherwise, as I generally have things to do over the weekend.

Did you make it out to the MSU Art & Craft show Bob?

I don't think so.

I was at the Art Fair for a bit.. just walking around. I'm not into the art fair, but some kids from ELHS were playing in the jazz band and I'm friends with some parents.. hung out there for a couple of minutes.. beer at PB.. went home and took a nap.