Bump when these numbers move

Trapper Gus wrote:

Zurn wrote:

Oh, I forgot you think the guy who mows Tom Izzo's lawn should be paid the same as Tom Izzo.

I have total you that they have the same value as human beings. You seem to equate that to money, which makes you a follower of people like Marx who believe that everything is life is about money.

By your logic Trump and Hillary are the same value of person. Meditate on that for a bit.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

I have total you that they have the same value as human beings.  You seem to equate that to money, which makes you a follower of people like Marx who believe that everything is life is about money.

By your logic Trump and Hillary are the same value of person.  Meditate on that for a bit.  

I don't have a problem with that, nor should anyone.  Each human has the same value, and, ignoring crimes, the same right to Life, Liberty, & Happiness.

Economically the fair system should ensure that all humans are given a fair share from the economy of which they are part of, which a market-based economy for wages, which as many thinkers have noted, is more a power struggle than equal distribution for the value of the work, does not do.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

By your logic Trump and Hillary are the same value of person.  Meditate on that for a bit.  

I don't have a problem with that, nor should anyone.  Each human has the same value, and, ignoring crimes, the same right to Life, Liberty, & Happiness.

Economically the fair system should ensure that all humans are given a fair share from the economy of which they are part of, which a market-based economy for wages, which as many thinkers have noted, is more a power struggle than equal distribution for the value of the work, does not do.

I couldn’t disagree more.

In an ideal world, each person should be given the same OPPORTUNITIES, but beyond that, it’s up to the individual what they do with them.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Zurn wrote:

Of course there are varying numbers for what percentage of taxes the top 10% in income pay.  Depends on the year analyzed, what is considered to be taxes (just income tax or social security, etc) and whether tax credits for lower income people are included in the analysis.   But the principle remains true no matter the exact number.   And that is that the upper 10% in income pay the majority of income taxes.

Why does in matter to me.   As an American interested in the well being of my country, tax policy should be towards the top of things that matter to me.   And keep in mind to be in the top 10% you only have to have an income of about $170k.  

I see, you are one of the "I've got mine from living in a country of 330 million where everyone contributes in some way to the economy that in the engine of my wellbeing and fuck the other 90% who are struggling whose struggles created my wealth" types.

High taxes on the high incomes (incomes include all capital gains in this statement) do two important acts: First, and most important, by limited wealth accumulating, taxes keep the political power struggle more equal between all the people in the country; second, because a market based wage system in inherently unable to pay for the value of a human being's subsistence, income transfers from the haves to the have nots who are also part of the economic machine which keeps the economy working corrects to some extent for the flaws in using market value to determine wages.

he probably worked hard to get to where he is.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

I don't have a problem with that, nor should anyone.  Each human has the same value, and, ignoring crimes, the same right to Life, Liberty, & Happiness.

Economically the fair system should ensure that all humans are given a fair share from the economy of which they are part of, which a market-based economy for wages, which as many thinkers have noted, is more a power struggle than equal distribution for the value of the work, does not do.

I couldn’t disagree more.

In an ideal world, each person should be given the same OPPORTUNITIES, but beyond that, it’s up to the individual what they do with them.

In order to do that you have to make babies work from day one, not really a good idea, or you have to say it is the parents' choice to support the baby, which leaves you still with all the babies without parents to die.

However, I'm taking about the use of market-based wages as the mediating method for determining wages, which is a power struggle between workers who have, usually, much less power and employers who have much more power.

This power struggle is ongoing in all market-based transactions, but other that academic economists most people don't admit it exists.

If the workers were being paid for the value they create, rather than as little as the employer can get away with, it would be a different system, and your concept of opportunity would have a possible argument, as it is, with market-based wages, it does not hold much water.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

By your logic Trump and Hillary are the same value of person.  Meditate on that for a bit.  

I don't have a problem with that, nor should anyone.  Each human has the same value, and, ignoring crimes, the same right to Life, Liberty, & Happiness.

Economically the fair system should ensure that all humans are given a fair share from the economy of which they are part of, which a market-based economy for wages, which as many thinkers have noted, is more a power struggle than equal distribution for the value of the work, does not do.

Hillary Clinton is a much more valuable human being with regard to her life's work. She has dedicated her life as a public servant and served tirelessly and selfishly, only to be demonized by the mainstream media, republicans/libertarians, christians, Russia, etc., because, in their mind, a female could never be the leader that a male could be.

Contrast that with the disgusting piece of trash that they decided did demonstrate more value: a rapist who mocks disabled people, who is currently in a courtroom under criminal prosecution, facing 88 felony charges. And that's to say nothing of his racism, his bigotry, his contempt for democracy, America and the Constitution.

So, call me crazy, but I'm willing to say that Hillary Clinton unequivocally has more value and personifies that value more than the racist, bigoted, christian sexual predator and convicted rapist.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

I couldn’t disagree more.

In an ideal world, each person should be given the same OPPORTUNITIES, but beyond that, it’s up to the individual what they do with them.

In order to do that you have to make babies work from day one, not really a good idea, or you have to say it is the parents' choice to support the baby, which leaves you still with all the babies without parents to die.

However, I'm taking about the use of market-based wages as the mediating method for determining wages, which is a power struggle between workers who have, usually, much less power and employers who have much more power.

This power struggle is ongoing in all market-based transactions, but other that academic economists most people don't admit it exists.

If the workers were being paid for the value they create, rather than as little as the employer can get away with, it would be a different system, and your concept of opportunity would have a possible argument, as it is, with market-based wages, it does not hold much water.

You lost me at babies without parents.

Are we now growing babies on farms?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

I see, you are one of the "I've got mine from living in a country of 330 million where everyone contributes in some way to the economy that in the engine of my wellbeing and fuck the other 90% who are struggling whose struggles created my wealth" types.

High taxes on the high incomes (incomes include all capital gains in this statement) do two important acts: First, and most important, by limited wealth accumulating, taxes keep the political power struggle more equal between all the people in the country; second, because a market based wage system in inherently unable to pay for the value of a human being's subsistence, income transfers from the haves to the have nots who are also part of the economic machine which keeps the economy working corrects to some extent for the flaws in using market value to determine wages.

he probably worked hard to get to where he is.

Maybe or maybe not, but Trapper sure is working hard.

Zurn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: he probably worked hard to get to where he is.

Maybe or maybe not, but Trapper sure is working hard.

I definitely didn't.

not sure about Trapper. He can likely answer for himself.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

In order to do that you have to make babies work from day one, not really a good idea, or you have to say it is the parents' choice to support the baby, which leaves you still with all the babies without parents to die.

However, I'm taking about the use of market-based wages as the mediating method for determining wages, which is a power struggle between workers who have, usually, much less power and employers who have much more power.

This power struggle is ongoing in all market-based transactions, but other that academic economists most people don't admit it exists.

If the workers were being paid for the value they create, rather than as little as the employer can get away with, it would be a different system, and your concept of opportunity would have a possible argument, as it is, with market-based wages, it does not hold much water.

You lost me at babies without parents.

Are we now growing babies on farms?

Mother dies during child birth or anytime there after, more likely now in anti-abortion states. Any number of reasons babies don't have living parents.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

You lost me at babies without parents.

Are we now growing babies on farms?

Mother dies during child birth or anytime there after, more likely now in anti-abortion states. Any number of reasons babies don't have living parents.

Ah, I see. Well, that’s why I said we shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss that post-birth abortion idea.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Mother dies during child birth or anytime there after, more likely now in anti-abortion states. Any number of reasons babies don't have living parents.

Ah, I see. Well, that’s why I said we shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss that post-birth abortion idea.

Why should parents take care of kids. If they can't earn they own way let them die.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Ah, I see. Well, that’s why I said we shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss that post-birth abortion idea.

Why should parents take care of kids. If they can't earn they own way let them die.

If we could somehow prevent breeders from procreation without a license, I think we’d solve a lot of problems.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Why should parents take care of kids. If they can't earn they own way let them die.

If we could somehow prevent breeders from procreation without a license, I think we’d solve a lot of problems.

The economy depends on either the breeders or immigration. No one has figured out how to have a stable population economy.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

If we could somehow prevent breeders from procreation without a license, I think we’d solve a lot of problems.

The economy depends on either the breeders or immigration. No one has figured out how to have a stable population economy.

FYI - I'd rather live next door to immigrants that wanted to be in the US than I would a family of republican/libertarians.

okay, y'all go back to arguing now.

(Wednesday market close) Inflation-rattled investors received a welcome shot in the arm Wednesday after the Labor Department's Consumer Price Index (CPI) report came out cooler than expected, fueling a broad rally that sent the S&P 500 index (SPX) and Nasdaq Composite ($COMP) to all-time high closes.

https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/stock-market-update-close

Bump

BREAKING: The Dow Jones stock market index has crossed 40,000 for the first time in history amid more signs of cooling inflation and resilient economic growth.

I have no idea what this means, but I'm sure the mainstream media and republican/libertarians will explain to everyone why it's horrible news for Joe Biden.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

BREAKING: The Dow Jones stock market index has crossed 40,000 for the first time in history amid more signs of cooling inflation and resilient economic growth.

I have no idea what this means, but I'm sure the mainstream media and republican/libertarians will explain to everyone why it's horrible news for Joe Biden.

This is clearly the result of presidential polls leaning toward Trump and the expectation that he will win in November. A harbinger of doom for President Biden.

Sincerely,

MSM

and, right on cue, here is the latest CNN headline:

Why we care so much about the Dow, the stock market’s dumbest index

from the article:

New York CNN —

The Dow Jones Industrial Average is, at best, an imperfect barometer of stock market activity among a narrow band of very large US companies. It’s clunky, and too limited in scope for any Wall Street pros to pay serious attention to it.

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

To be fair, the Dow is not the index that most accurately represents the US economy, that would be the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ.

For example, there have been days when the Dow finishes positive for the day but 29 companies finished negative and Apple finished positive.

It’s only 30 companies.

Motown Spartan wrote:To be fair, the Dow is not the index that most accurately represents the US economy, that would be the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ.

For example, there have been days when the Dow finishes positive for the day but 29 companies finished negative and Apple finished positive.

It’s only 30 companies.

yeah - I'm an idiot and even I know that whatever the Dow is, it's not representative of anything.

but I suspect that if the Dow hit record levels and the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator and convicted rapist was in office, the mainstream media, Russia, China and even the church that all of these patriots go to would be extolling the virtue of whatever the "Dow" is.

We all know that the record economy and the record stock indexes have nothing to do with President Biden. /s

https://apnews.com/article/dow-jones-industrial-average-record-rally-22aaf53da73b4550af35e7c40cf30214

Bump