Coronavirus - The Political Side

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

msugolfguy wrote:

Fussed? We're still seeing reports of hospitals overflowing and people are still pissed. We literally have private business trying to do the right thing and states trying to over turn business.

What planet do you live on where it's not a fuss. School boards are being harassed over possible masks.

Grow up.

Businesses are open.

People are being asked to return to offices.

There are very few mask "mandates" anywhere.

Governors aren't holding weekly press briefings any longer.

You can quip "Grow up" but there is a marked difference from 2019 and 2020. America is "over it" and I can't understand why.

Where do you live, because where I live there are the same mask requirements that we have had since the start of covid.

I see more anti-mask/vac people trying to kill themselves and others in public, however that does not mean that the requirements are not there, just that people are stupid.

Part of our population has decided it is better to kill off about 1 to 2% of themselves as a political statement, the rest of us are wearing our masks & have been vaccinated.

Also part of the change in behavior is due to the fact that much more is known about what the risks are with covid, so some things which have very small effects on the spread have been either dropped or lessened while the things that work, vaccines, masks, social distancing indoors, are being promoted.

msugolfguy wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

So if that's the case, why aren't some of the measures enacted during 2019 and 2020 being enacted now?  Why are elected officials sitting on their hands and everybody is acting like it's business as normal?

Legislation has been passed to limit governments power. We aren't issuing emergency orders.

Yet we still see reports of hospitals being overwhelmed. You see administration begging for help and most states are we can't because our hands our tied.

Not true in Michigan.

State and local Health Departments are still issuing emergency orders.

However, masking in indoors and social distancing have become the new normal, and we don't notice them as much.

edit - and this doesn't take into account Biden's vaccination / testing mandate for employers with more than 50 employees.

TrapperGus wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:Additionally, I believe COVID will be the least of Biden's issues in the near future. Covid, Afghanistan, and the boarder will all be secondary to the coming recession. Inflation, "supply chain issues," (whatever their cause may be, I use the term generically) and an unraveling labor market are going to ultimately lead to stagflation right about the time the Democrats are looking to get re-elected.

As the great James Carville once said, "It's the economy, stupid."

To start with in reply, a recession is when the country's GDP goes down.

Although most reports I have seen say that the GDP growth for 2021 might not hit the 6 to 8% expected at the beginning of the year it will be in the 4 to 6% range.

To predict a recession with that level of growth in 2021 seems to me to be unlikely.

The number one issue for Biden is still covid, which continues to cause issues. It is the reason we are seeing ups and lesser ups in the economy. However, Biden is taking steps, such as mandates & help for the shipping, to improve the situation. When covid is under control the economy will settle down.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-health-covid-19-pandemic-travel-4826edefa498139ebd37684e4f64d553

I don't want to derail this thread. If there's a more appropriate thread in which to discuss the economy, please point me to it.

That being said, I didn't say we'd have a recession in 2021. I said one was coming. Inflation (now) is far worse than the "experts" feared, and it's eventually (A year or two) going to drive us in to stagflation, which will lead to a recession (right about election season).

And yes, I agree with you that Covid is a cause of some of this, but it isn't the only cause.

TrapperGus wrote:

msugolfguy wrote:

Legislation has been passed to limit governments power. We aren't issuing emergency orders.

Yet we still see reports of hospitals being overwhelmed. You see administration begging for help and most states are we can't because our hands our tied.

Not true in Michigan.

State and local Health Departments are still issuing emergency orders.

However, masking in indoors and social distancing have become the new normal, and we don't notice them as much.

I've been to Michigan recently. Go to any grocery store, restaurant, bar, or what have you. No one is wearing masks. There might be a sign on the door that says masks are "recommended" but it's a far cry from 2019-2020 when someone would damn near tackle you at the door if you forgot your mask.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

TrapperGus wrote:

To start with in reply, a recession is when the country's GDP goes down.

Although most reports I have seen say that the GDP growth for 2021 might not hit the 6 to 8% expected at the beginning of the year it will be in the 4 to 6% range.

To predict a recession with that level of growth in 2021 seems to me to be unlikely.

The number one issue for Biden is still covid, which continues to cause issues. It is the reason we are seeing ups and lesser ups in the economy. However, Biden is taking steps, such as mandates & help for the shipping, to improve the situation. When covid is under control the economy will settle down.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-health-covid-19-pandemic-travel-4826edefa498139ebd37684e4f64d553

I don't want to derail this thread. If there's a more appropriate thread in which to discuss the economy, please point me to it.

That being said, I didn't say we'd have a recession in 2021. I said one was coming. Inflation (now) is far worse than the "experts" feared, and it's eventually (A year or two) going to drive us in to stagflation, which will lead to a recession (right about election season).

And yes, I agree with you that Covid is a cause of some of this, but it isn't the only cause.

Here is what the search functions finds for the economy.

https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/search?search_keywords=the+economy&search_where=f3

I'm thinking if you want to talk about a recession in 2022 you should start a new thread.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

TrapperGus wrote:

Not true in Michigan.

State and local Health Departments are still issuing emergency orders.

However, masking in indoors and social distancing have become the new normal, and we don't notice them as much.

I've been to Michigan recently.  Go to any grocery store, restaurant, bar, or what have you. No one is wearing masks.  There might be a sign on the door that says masks are "recommended" but it's a far cry from 2019-2020 when someone would damn near tackle you at the door if you forgot your mask.

I travel around the state and the compliance with the mandates varies by what the local population is.  It the larger metro areas compliance is much higher than in Hillsdale County.  The mandates were always voluntary, which people have never understood.  What you are seeing is people making a political statement about how much they value the lives of others, and that is being driven by the conservatives, so the politics of the regions matter.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-boeing-co-washington-health-9f265f852da985adb6a8fa83922377b2

Boeing tells workers they must get COVID-19 vaccine

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2021/10/thumbs-up-on-michigan-states-covid-vaccine-mandate-thumbs-down-on-natural-immunity-federal-judge-says.html

Thumbs up on Michigan State’s COVID vaccine mandate, thumbs down on natural immunity, federal judge says

TrapperGus wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

I've been to Michigan recently.  Go to any grocery store, restaurant, bar, or what have you. No one is wearing masks.  There might be a sign on the door that says masks are "recommended" but it's a far cry from 2019-2020 when someone would damn near tackle you at the door if you forgot your mask.

I travel around the state and the compliance with the mandates varies by what the local population is.  It the larger metro areas compliance is much higher than in Hillsdale County.  The mandates were always voluntary, which people have never understood.  What you are seeing is people making a political statement about how much they value the lives of others, and that is being driven by the conservatives, so the politics of the regions matter.

I think you're being slightly disingenuous with that claim. I highly doubt that all 100+ maskless people I saw in the local mega-mart were "conservatives" making a political statement.

People just don't care anymore.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

TrapperGus wrote:

I travel around the state and the compliance with the mandates varies by what the local population is.  It the larger metro areas compliance is much higher than in Hillsdale County.  The mandates were always voluntary, which people have never understood.  What you are seeing is people making a political statement about how much they value the lives of others, and that is being driven by the conservatives, so the politics of the regions matter.

I think you're being slightly disingenuous with that claim. I highly doubt that all 100+ maskless people I saw in the local mega-mart were "conservatives" making a political statement.

People just don't care anymore.

We will just have to disagree about that.

TrapperGus wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

I think you're being slightly disingenuous with that claim. I highly doubt that all 100+ maskless people I saw in the local mega-mart were "conservatives" making a political statement.

People just don't care anymore.

We will just have to disagree about that.

Sure. I mean, what's more realistic? That thousands of conservatives are systematically going out to bars, restaurants, and grocery stores in an attempt to troll and undermine the good hearted liberals of the state? Or people are just tired of this shit and have stopped trying?

Your way makes sense, too.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

TrapperGus wrote:

We will just have to disagree about that.

Sure. I mean, what's more realistic? That thousands of conservatives are systematically going out to bars, restaurants, and grocery stores in an attempt to troll and undermine the good hearted liberals of the state? Or people are just tired of this shit and have stopped trying?

Your way makes sense, too.

in general people follow the influencers

in Hillsdale it is a bunch of anti American rwnjs

in Detroit it is a bunch of sensible smart people

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

TrapperGus wrote:

We will just have to disagree about that.

Sure. I mean, what's more realistic? That thousands of conservatives are systematically going out to bars, restaurants, and grocery stores in an attempt to troll and undermine the good hearted liberals of the state? Or people are just tired of this shit and have stopped trying?

Your way makes sense, too.

Yeah in this fucking culture war that's pretty much what they are doing. They aren't getting the vaccine either.

It's the craziest shit I've seen in my life.

if only the pro-life christians could contain the virus that it just kills them and not innocent family, friends and neighbors who have been trying their best to do the right thing.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:if only the pro-life christians could contain the virus that it just kills them and not innocent family, friends and neighbors who have been trying their best to do the right thing.

That's kind of where I'm at. Let's get the kids vaccinated, and then let the chips fall where they may. I fully support someone's right to make a political statement, but I also support my right to laugh at them when they die.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:if only the pro-life christians could contain the virus that it just kills them and not innocent family, friends and neighbors who have been trying their best to do the right thing.

That's kind of where I'm at. Let's get the kids vaccinated, and then let the chips fall where they may. I fully support someone's right to make a political statement, but I also support my right to laugh at them when they die.

yep - you can't fix stupidity.

Just to add that some of the mask less people are vaccinated and don't understand they can still be a carrier.

Don't know where to put this.

Dude applies to 60 entry level jobs, gets one callback

Is it all bullshit?

It’s not bullshit but you’ll find some jobs out there that will say

“Requires- 15 years experience, 10 years management experience, masters degree in related field preferred. $17.50 per hour”

Then we’ll all wonder why there is no magic unicorn out there that is taking that job

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Don't know where to put this.

Dude applies to 60 entry level jobs, gets one callback

Is it all bullshit?

There is some BS'ing going on, it is always political with business owners, they are trying to own the workers via politics.

The low vaccination rate in the U.S. is another consequence of our polarized politics and our high levels of socioeconomic inequality. Only 67 percent of American adults without a four-year college degree have received a shot, compared with 82 percent of college graduates, according to the most recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll. And only 58 percent of self-identified Republicans are vaccinated, compared with 90 percent of Democrats.

It’s a triumph of misinformation. Offered a lifesaving drug to counteract a highly contagious virus, many Americans are instead choosing to take their chances.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is plummeting into “anti-vaxx Crazyville,” the Miami Herald’s editorial board declared in a stinging column Monday.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/miami-herald-ron-desantis-crazyville_n_6177aa4ee4b09314320f54b2

Jake from State Farm wrote:Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is plummeting into “anti-vaxx Crazyville,” the Miami Herald’s editorial board declared in a stinging column Monday.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/miami-herald-ron-desantis-crazyville_n_6177aa4ee4b09314320f54b2

he's also a "pro-life" christian... and a vocal proponent of the death penalty.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Jake from State Farm wrote:Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is plummeting into “anti-vaxx Crazyville,” the Miami Herald’s editorial board declared in a stinging column Monday.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/miami-herald-ron-desantis-crazyville_n_6177aa4ee4b09314320f54b2

he's also a "pro-life" christian... and a vocal proponent of the death penalty.

Honestly have never understood that mix ...

At least the Pope is anti-abortion and anti-death penalty

According to CNN, a study by Johns Hopkins University found vaccinated immunocompromised people were 485 times more likely to end up in the hospital or die from Covid compared to most vaccinated people. The CDC also said fully vaccinated immunocompromised people account for about 44% of the breakthrough cases that require hospitalization, and immunocompromised people are more likely to transmit the virus to others.

TrapperGus wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: he's also a "pro-life" christian... and a vocal proponent of the death penalty.

Honestly have never understood that mix ...

At least the Pope is anti-abortion and anti-death penalty

yeah, it never did have anything to do with "life" - Republicans don't care about life. They care about the life of white people.

and guess who disproportionately isn't on death row?

White people.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
and guess who disproportionately isn't on death row?

Can't do the time? Don't do the crime.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

TrapperGus wrote:

Honestly have never understood that mix ...

At least the Pope is anti-abortion and anti-death penalty

yeah, it never did have anything to do with "life" - Republicans don't care about life. They care about the life of white people.

and guess who disproportionately isn't on death row?

White people.

It’s about having large numbers of BIPOC to send to their deaths in unnecessary wars.

RQA wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
and guess who disproportionately isn't on death row?

Can't do the time? Don't do the crime.

More often, it’s that those in poverty can’t afford the really good attorneys. It’s been ever thus.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

TrapperGus wrote:

Honestly have never understood that mix ...

At least the Pope is anti-abortion and anti-death penalty

yeah, it never did have anything to do with "life" - Republicans don't care about life. They care about the life of white people.

and guess who disproportionately isn't on death row?

White people.

That's not true or else they would care about covid. It's about money and morons.

tGreenWay wrote:

RQA wrote:

Can't do the time? Don't do the crime.

More often, it’s that those in poverty can’t afford the really good attorneys. It’s been ever thus.

Anyone who really understand what Critical Race Theory Studies are all about understands that minorities are treated much more harshly by the Justice System in this country, and that it is a systematic which cannot be solved by trying to mandate fairness.

The New York Times has an investigative article above the fold on page one today ...

Over the past five years, police officers have killed more than 400 drivers or passengers who were not wielding a gun or a knife, or who weren’t under pursuit for a violent crime — a rate of more than one a week, a Times investigation found.

Many were stopped for common traffic offenses: a broken taillight, running a red light or swerving across double yellow lines. Relative to the population, Black drivers were overrepresented among those killed.

Traffic stops — which can be driven by the demand for revenue to fund towns — are the most common interactions between police officers and the public. The police consider them among the most dangerous things they do.

Officers have been charged in 32 cases, and nearly two dozen are pending. Only five officers have been convicted of crimes for the killing of motorists. But The Times found that evidence often contradicted the officers’ accounts. A visual investigation rolled back the footage capturing 120 fatal traffic stops and found that in dozens of incidents, officers made tactical mistakes that put them in positions of danger.

COVID-19: Trial Shows An Antidepressant Reduces Risk of Death in At-risk Patients By 30%+

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/10/30/2061223/-COVID-19-Study-Shows-An-Antidepressant-Reduces-Risk-of-Death-in-At-risk-Patients-By-30

Related thought, maybe, something that popped in my head in the shower....
I wonder how many of the deniers are latently suicidal? Not gun in mouth... but not take care of your diabetes type of suicidal. Like the keep smoking after the copd sets in suicidal... If you have a shitty existence and you really care about no one, then who cares if you get or give the disease?

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Related thought, maybe, something that popped in my head in the shower....
I wonder how many of the deniers are latently suicidal? Not gun in mouth... but not take care of your diabetes type of suicidal. Like the keep smoking after the copd sets in suicidal... If you have a shitty existence and you really care about no one, then who cares if you get or give the disease?

Well not this thread, but there is a thread talking about gun deaths on here. Suicide is by far the largest type of gun death, about 60% of all gun deaths. And, the most significate demographic of gun death suicides is older white rural males.

Oh, Sarah.

[tw]1486737769959690240[/tw]

Floyd Robertson wrote:Oh, Sarah.

[tw]1486737769959690240[/tw]

There was a time about 15 years ago that I would have banged her.

America is a stupid country.

If Covid could have been eliminated utilizing the force of the US military machine, 100% of Republicans would have supported that, knowing it would have killed 7,000 American service members.  

But ask them to wear a mask and get vaccinated and they're just fine with 875,000 deaths, most of which could have been avoided.

Motown Spartan wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:Oh, Sarah.

[tw]1486737769959690240[/tw]

There was a time about 15 years ago that I would have banged her.

I wonder what her screechy voice would have sounded like if you really got her going?

Motown Spartan wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:Oh, Sarah.

[tw]1486737769959690240[/tw]

There was a time about 15 years ago that I would have banged her.

Get in line behind Dennis Rodman, she was a wild kid ...