This SCOTUS leak has changed my mind.

I’ve rethought my pro-choice stance.



I’m pro abortion now.

I am personally against abortion. But Americans should have the freedom and the choice of Abortion.

DWags wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:I am personally against abortion. But Americans should have the freedom and the choice of Abortion.

Honestly, I’m so tired of the above statement being made by men.

Why? He said he's pro choice?

Republicans are outraged that their dirty little secret was leaked before they could plan their victory celebration with a 21 gun salute.

Could you imagine a world where women could get away with telling men what a man can or can't do with his body and the woman's belief about it...

DWags wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Why?  He said he's pro choice?

No, he’s a coward without a uterus that said he was against it. The rest is what men say to absolve themselves of any moral stance. Its really a disgusting stance that rightfully upsets women

Let’s try these:

“I’m against gay rights but I don’t care if they marry”
“I personally don’t want black people to vote, but I guess they can if they want”

So, I’ll allow abortions but I’m against them.  I don’t have a uterus, I have no idea what it’s like, but I’m dumb ass enough to say that I’m against it.   Personally, I know women who hate when men take that stance.  

But hey, I guess I don’t mind if they say it.

You are confused about personal beliefs and freedom.
Most likely your misunderstanding of the statement.
And yet you are upset about it.
Abortion should remain legal. I would not recommend it and there are other options. But people have different opinions and beliefs and should have that option.
   I take your post for what it is- just an opportunity for you to vent at a poster you don’t agree with and thats fine.


Your over compensation is hilariously obvious. This has nothing to do with gay rights or race and yet you furiously attempt to lump anyone you don’t agree with into a sterotype.

I enjoy these threads. Please dont get overly emotional and angry.

DWags wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Why?  He said he's pro choice?

No, he’s a coward without a uterus that said he was against it. The rest is what men say to absolve themselves of any moral stance. Its really a disgusting stance that rightfully upsets women

Let’s try these:

“I’m against gay rights but I don’t care if they marry”
“I personally don’t want black people to vote, but I guess they can if they want”

So, I’ll allow abortions but I’m against them.  I don’t have a uterus, I have no idea what it’s like, but I’m dumb ass enough to say that I’m against it.   Personally, I know women who hate when men take that stance.  

But hey, I guess I don’t mind if they say it.

Fair enough.  I guess I interpreted it differently, more about him being pro choice and not that his being "against" it is meant as harshly.  Like more just wishing people wouldn't choose that.  But I dont mean to out words in his mouth.

Gay rights or blacks voting are terrible analogies though.  I can't speak from experience, but from what I've seen/read/heard, having an abortion can often be a very difficult, emotional decision.  I dont think a black person deciding to go to the polls, or a gay person not wanting to be denied service at a restaurant, are very difficult choices for them.

To be clear, I'm not against abortion.  I hope it didn't come across that way.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

DWags wrote:

Honestly, I’m so tired of the above statement being made by men.  

Why?  He said he's pro choice?

I suppose I am not pro-choice enough.  

I will simplify it for him:
I am pro-freedom. People are different and have different priorities.
 The government should not limit or restrict an individuals freedoms and right of choice.
 My opinion of the federal governments role should be one that ENSURES more freedom and that the States do not infringe on individual rights.
   DWAGs has does not like me as a poster and often post to be contrarian.  And thats fine- I find it entertaining and speaks to his maturity and character.

Before dwags tries to spin it- Abortion is up the the individual not the .gov.

This has nothing to do with race. Although he will furiously try to deflect to towards race as he did already and failed.

Pro life is such bullshit. I've gone through it first hand. Everyone is so thrilled we have Kyle. Well, fuck all that, there is hardly any government type help that we have received. If this nation was truly pro life there would be a lot more assistance out there for all children, but instead, fuck that, free breakfast and lunch for school? Nope, can't afford that. Diapers, formula? Hahaha. Whatever, its not about life, its about some extremist religious kooks. American taliban. I don't believe in whatever the fuck they do, yet now my family is suggested to your non medical views. The real problem is that most prolife actually think they are saving babies, while at the same time bitching about socialism and having to take care of the poor. And really, in the 21st century, in the richest most advanced country in the world and we allow states with the lowest population and least educated to have some of the most influence over teh whole country? The real irony will be if the Philippines becomes more liberal than whatever the fuck is happening to this country and I end up moving there. Especially because my wife left there for a better opportunity here, but I worry about my daughter now. What happens if something horrible happens to her, but because I live in FL they don't allow the pregnancy to be terminated and she dies because of it? Fucking right wing republican fascist fucks.

InTenSity wrote:Pro life is such bullshit. I've gone through it first hand. Everyone is so thrilled we have Kyle. Well, fuck all that, there is hardly any government type help that we have received. If this nation was truly pro life there would be a lot more assistance out there for all children, but instead, fuck that, free breakfast and lunch for school? Nope, can't afford that. Diapers, formula? Hahaha. Whatever, its not about life, its about some extremist religious kooks. American taliban. I don't believe in whatever the fuck they do, yet now my family is suggested to your non medical views. The real problem is that most prolife actually think they are saving babies, while at the same time bitching about socialism and having to take care of the poor. And really, in the 21st century, in the richest most advanced country in the world and we allow states with the lowest population and least educated to have some of the most influence over teh whole country? The real irony will be if the Philippines becomes more liberal than whatever the fuck is happening to this country and I end up moving there. Especially because my wife left there for a better opportunity here, but I worry about my daughter now. What happens if something horrible happens to her, but because I live in FL they don't allow the pregnancy to be terminated and she dies because of it? Fucking right wing republican fascist fucks.

Hey man. Abortion is illegal in the Philippines.

For now it is and I realize they just started allowing contraceptive in the last 10 years or so, but they are moving towards legalizing it, while the US is moving towards banning it, at least in certain parts of the country.

NumbersDude wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Why?  He said he's pro choice?

I suppose I am not pro-choice enough.  

I will simplify it for him:
I am pro-freedom. People are different and have different priorities.
 The government should not limit or restrict an individuals freedoms and right of choice.
 My opinion of the federal governments role should be one that ENSURES more freedom and that the States do not infringe on individual rights.
   DWAGs has does not like me as a poster and often post to be contrarian.  And thats fine- I find it entertaining and speaks to his maturity and character.

Before dwags tries to spin it- Abortion is up the the individual not the .gov.

This has nothing to do with race. Although he will furiously try to deflect to towards race as he did already and failed.

I mean…. I don’t know if you saw the news this week or not…

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

I suppose I am not pro-choice enough.  

I will simplify it for him:
I am pro-freedom. People are different and have different priorities.
 The government should not limit or restrict an individuals freedoms and right of choice.
 My opinion of the federal governments role should be one that ENSURES more freedom and that the States do not infringe on individual rights.
   DWAGs has does not like me as a poster and often post to be contrarian.  And thats fine- I find it entertaining and speaks to his maturity and character.

Before dwags tries to spin it- Abortion is up the the individual not the .gov.

This has nothing to do with race. Although he will furiously try to deflect to towards race as he did already and failed.

I mean…. I don’t know if you saw the news this week or not…

Thats my opinion.

NumbersDude wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I mean…. I don’t know if you saw the news this week or not…

Thats my opinion.

So you meant should be, not is. Fair enough

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

Thats my opinion.

So you meant should be, not is. Fair enough

I live in CA. Its 100% legal here.

NumbersDude wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Why?  He said he's pro choice?

I suppose I am not pro-choice enough.  

I will simplify it for him:
I am pro-freedom. People are different and have different priorities.
 The government should not limit or restrict an individuals freedoms and right of choice.
 My opinion of the federal governments role should be one that ENSURES more freedom and that the States do not infringe on individual rights.
   DWAGs has does not like me as a poster and often post to be contrarian.  And thats fine- I find it entertaining and speaks to his maturity and character.

Before dwags tries to spin it- Abortion is up the the individual not the .gov.

This has nothing to do with race. Although he will furiously try to deflect to towards race as he did already and failed.

It's not that you're not pro-choice enough. It's the fact that you have an opinion about what someone else should or shouldn't do with their body that is bullshit, let alone a woman, ANY woman. For you to be against abortion is sexist and misogynistic.

NumbersDude wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

So you meant should be, not is. Fair enough

I live in CA. Its 100% legal here.

For now

Motown Spartan wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

I suppose I am not pro-choice enough.  

I will simplify it for him:
I am pro-freedom. People are different and have different priorities.
 The government should not limit or restrict an individuals freedoms and right of choice.
 My opinion of the federal governments role should be one that ENSURES more freedom and that the States do not infringe on individual rights.
   DWAGs has does not like me as a poster and often post to be contrarian.  And thats fine- I find it entertaining and speaks to his maturity and character.

Before dwags tries to spin it- Abortion is up the the individual not the .gov.

This has nothing to do with race. Although he will furiously try to deflect to towards race as he did already and failed.

It's not that you're not pro-choice enough. It's the fact that you have an opinion about what someone else should or shouldn't do with their body that is bullshit, let alone a woman, ANY woman. For you to be against abortion is sexist and misogynistic.

What are you talking about? You are furiously trying to lump me into your stereo types. This thread meanders from abortion to gay rights to racism and now misogynist?
Wow. You are getting desperate. Or just refuse to read.
What makes me a “misogynist”?
This will be hilarious.

NumbersDude wrote:

Motown Spartan wrote:

It's not that you're not pro-choice enough. It's the fact that you have an opinion about what someone else should or shouldn't do with their body that is bullshit, let alone a woman, ANY woman. For you to be against abortion is sexist and misogynistic.

What are you talking about? You are furiously trying to lump me into your stereo types. This thread meanders from abortion to gay rights to racism and now misogynist?
Wow. You are getting desperate. Or just refuse to read.
What makes me a “misogynist”?
This will be hilarious.

You're against a medical procedure. A medical procedure that you can never have. A medical procedure that is very personal and impactful to a woman, that is only the business of a woman and her doctor.

You are against something that is 100% completely none of your fucking business.

That is sexist and misogynistic.

NumbersDude wrote:

DWags wrote:

No, he’s a coward without a uterus that said he was against it. The rest is what men say to absolve themselves of any moral stance. Its really a disgusting stance that rightfully upsets women

Let’s try these:

“I’m against gay rights but I don’t care if they marry”
“I personally don’t want black people to vote, but I guess they can if they want”

So, I’ll allow abortions but I’m against them.  I don’t have a uterus, I have no idea what it’s like, but I’m dumb ass enough to say that I’m against it.   Personally, I know women who hate when men take that stance.  

But hey, I guess I don’t mind if they say it.

You are confused about personal beliefs and freedom.
Most likely your misunderstanding of the statement.
And yet you are upset about it.
Abortion should remain legal. I would not recommend it and there are other options. But people have different opinions and beliefs and should have that option.
   I take your post for what it is- just an opportunity for you to vent at a poster you don’t agree with and thats fine.


Your over compensation is hilariously obvious. This has nothing to do with gay rights or race and yet you furiously attempt to lump anyone you don’t agree with into a sterotype.

I enjoy these threads. Please dont get overly emotional and angry.

I'm going to say that you haven't thought your position through. If you wife was going to die, no question about it, due to a pregnancy and an abortion would keep her alive are you still of the same opinion?

Trapper Gus wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

You are confused about personal beliefs and freedom.
Most likely your misunderstanding of the statement.
And yet you are upset about it.
Abortion should remain legal. I would not recommend it and there are other options. But people have different opinions and beliefs and should have that option.
   I take your post for what it is- just an opportunity for you to vent at a poster you don’t agree with and thats fine.


Your over compensation is hilariously obvious. This has nothing to do with gay rights or race and yet you furiously attempt to lump anyone you don’t agree with into a sterotype.

I enjoy these threads. Please dont get overly emotional and angry.

I'm going to say that you haven't thought your position through. If you wife was going to die, no question about it, due to a pregnancy and an abortion would keep her alive are you still of the same opinion?

Its her decision not mine.

Motown Spartan wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

What are you talking about? You are furiously trying to lump me into your stereo types. This thread meanders from abortion to gay rights to racism and now misogynist?
Wow. You are getting desperate. Or just refuse to read.
What makes me a “misogynist”?
This will be hilarious.

You're against a medical procedure. A medical procedure that you can never have. A medical procedure that is very personal and impactful to a woman, that is only the business of a woman and her doctor.

You are against something that is 100% completely none of your fucking business.

That is sexist and misogynistic.

TBF, that woman's choices will affect the man legally for at least the next 18 years of his life. So saying that it's "none of his fucking business" is a bit harsh.

NumbersDude wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

I'm going to say that you haven't thought your position through. If you wife was going to die, no question about it, due to a pregnancy and an abortion would keep her alive are you still of the same opinion?

Its her decision not mine.

Not to be too sarcastic but you guys never make decisions about acts in your lives together?

Buit you would be against it, personally.

Would you divorce her if it happened?

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Motown Spartan wrote:

You're against a medical procedure. A medical procedure that you can never have. A medical procedure that is very personal and impactful to a woman, that is only the business of a woman and her doctor.

You are against something that is 100% completely none of your fucking business.

That is sexist and misogynistic.

TBF, that woman's choices will affect the man legally for at least the next 18 years of his life. So saying that it's "none of his fucking business" is a bit harsh.

This is 100% unequivocally wrong.

He made the decision when he ejaculated in her.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Motown Spartan wrote:

You're against a medical procedure. A medical procedure that you can never have. A medical procedure that is very personal and impactful to a woman, that is only the business of a woman and her doctor.

You are against something that is 100% completely none of your fucking business.

That is sexist and misogynistic.

TBF, that woman's choices will affect the man legally for at least the next 18 years of his life. So saying that it's "none of his fucking business" is a bit harsh.

A very good reason for men to be pro-abortion.

Trapper all up in this thread.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

TBF, that woman's choices will affect the man legally for at least the next 18 years of his life. So saying that it's "none of his fucking business" is a bit harsh.

A very good reason for men to be pro-abortion.

Preach, brother. I'm pro-abortion. Heck, I'm not even hung up on time limits. Anytime up until the kid's third birthday ought to be on the table, as far as I'm concerned.

Motown Spartan wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

TBF, that woman's choices will affect the man legally for at least the next 18 years of his life. So saying that it's "none of his fucking business" is a bit harsh.

This is 100% unequivocally wrong.

He made the decision when he ejaculated in her.

There are a number of fallacies with that idea.

Let's just say there are plenty of times that an egg may be formed unexpectedly when precautions have been taken. It is even possible for a technically virgin woman to become pregnant without penetration.

Motown Spartan wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

What are you talking about? You are furiously trying to lump me into your stereo types. This thread meanders from abortion to gay rights to racism and now misogynist?
Wow. You are getting desperate. Or just refuse to read.
What makes me a “misogynist”?
This will be hilarious.

You're against a medical procedure. A medical procedure that you can never have. A medical procedure that is very personal and impactful to a woman, that is only the business of a woman and her doctor.

You are against something that is 100% completely none of your fucking business.

That is sexist and misogynistic.

Thats a stretch for sure. Your view of misogynistic behavior is vastly different than mine. Freedom is awesome aint it.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:



Preach, brother.  I'm pro-abortion.  Heck, I'm not even hung up on time limits.  Anytime up until the kid's third birthday ought to be on the table, as far as I'm concerned.

A very good reason for men to be pro-abortion.

That sounds pretty radical to me, viability would be the soft line for me, there are still some cases where it is longer, but birth would be my hard line.

Trapper Gus wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

Its her decision not mine.

Not to be too sarcastic but you guys never make decisions about acts in your lives together?

Buit you would be against it, personally.

Would you divorce her if it happened?

I don’t believe in divorce. Wouldnt have one. But you go right ahead. Everyone is different.

NumbersDude wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Not to be too sarcastic but you guys never make decisions about acts in your lives together?

Buit you would be against it, personally.

Would you divorce her if it happened?

I don’t believe in divorce. Wouldnt have one. But you go right ahead. Everyone is different.

You stated your beliefs about abortion, and are defending them with what is frankly an unbelievable statement.

I think that abortions are totally up to the people involved, with of course the person who is having the abortion having the final choice.

You have said you personally are against them but would not argue, or even discuss it, with your wife if she decided to have one.

duffy munn wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

I suppose I am not pro-choice enough.  

I will simplify it for him:
I am pro-freedom. People are different and have different priorities.
 The government should not limit or restrict an individuals freedoms and right of choice.
 My opinion of the federal governments role should be one that ENSURES more freedom and that the States do not infringe on individual rights.
   DWAGs has does not like me as a poster and often post to be contrarian.  And thats fine- I find it entertaining and speaks to his maturity and character.

Before dwags tries to spin it- Abortion is up the the individual not the .gov.

This has nothing to do with race. Although he will furiously try to deflect to towards race as he did already and failed.

Did you just call someone out about maturity? Really? And then question his character. Hilarious.

I can say that I am an expert when it comes to immature behavior.

NumbersDude wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Not to be too sarcastic but you guys never make decisions about acts in your lives together?

Buit you would be against it, personally.

Would you divorce her if it happened?

I don’t believe in divorce. Wouldnt have one. But you go right ahead. Everyone is different.

I think the issue they’re taking is that this is not what you said about abortion. You said “I wouldn’t recommend it”. These are different things.

That said, I think a mountain might be being made out of a molehill here

DWags wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Fair enough.  I guess I interpreted it differently, more about him being pro choice and not that his being "against" it is meant as harshly.  Like more just wishing people wouldn't choose that.  But I dont mean to out words in his mouth.

Gay rights or blacks voting are terrible analogies though.  I can't speak from experience, but from what I've seen/read/heard, having an abortion can often be a very difficult, emotional decision.  I dont think a black person deciding to go to the polls, or a gay person not wanting to be denied service at a restaurant, are very difficult choices for them.

To be clear, I'm not against abortion.  I hope it didn't come across that way.

He’s not pro choice. He’s against abortion.  He’s a coward that self absolves with the use of his line, “but Americans should have a choice…”.  I have way more respect for the people who are against abortion and stand for their convictions. They’re dead wrong in their belief but they aren’t cowards about it.  He’s easy enough to ignore.
But Miami, my point above is that I hope nobody is ignorant enough to to say “I’m against  gay rights but….”  “I’m against minorities voting but…”. And frankly they wouldn’t.  But when it comes to women, they have no issue whatsoever saying “I’m against women rights but…”. The disrespect it shows women in my opinion is huge.  

Frankly, here is what I think every person lacking a uterus should do: shut the fuck up about your thoughts on it unless you are 100% in support of womens total rights. Anything short of that you’re insulting women.  

As far as the emotional aspect of gay marriage or minority voting rights vs abortion, that wasn’t my intent. My intent was about an ignorant statement that shouldn’t be said.  

If you are for womens rights, state it support it and shut up about any qualifying absolution for yourself.  Because if you don’t have a uterus and say you are against abortion you are as clueless as a person that would say those other things.  That’s why I’m tired of that statement Miami.  

But ok freedom is awesome.