The far left progressives have to be isolated and eliminated.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Did you tell Bob that we're now representing him? I don't think he's gonna be happy about that.

Oh hey - BTW - #BlueWave baby!

Bob is the smartest guy on here, you aren't mentally fit to wash his car.

The only person here who might be dumber than Bob is you, Mr. Blue Wave.

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Cameron wrote:So What Does That Mean in Practice?

How, exactly, can Democrats even hope to make people's lives better if they don't win? The truth is, Republicans are exceedingly good at making sure Democrats have no wins to improve lives.  The one time where we could overcome Republican obstructionism, we got the ACA.  That was swell.  How do we get those circumstances again?

This cycle Biden got the inflation reduction act thru, but I bet repubs knew it was too complicated and wasn't going to work fast enough to save dems.  

The truth isIts messaging.  Its the only way.  Through messaging.  Its all trump had this election, it's basically all Republicans ever have.  Any article telling you you can only do, to get the voters, is wrong.  What you need is the right messaging and the right charismatic people delivering it.  Harris had the wrong messaging and had the charisma of a toad.  She and Biden also did very little messaging in the last 4 years to counter the Republican narratives.  Big mistake, huge.

Get a more charismatic person up there, hire some good writers, hire a team of social media experts, hire a comedian to add in levity and to make people smile and laugh to add to the charisma, hammer Republicans on everything every day by creating bizzworthy political events.  Hold 3 day rallies in Dearborn.  Same for Detroit.  Same for Saginaw and Flint.  Make it an event that people have no option but to hear about it.  Drop fliers from the sky, whatever it takes to get traction.  And do it tomorrow through 2028.  The Jon Stewart daily show is a model for success.  Educate through entertainment.  

How, exactly, can Democrats even hope to make people's lives better if they don't win?

For starters, Democrats still control some states at the state level. At the federal level, I would suggest both obstructing the Republicans at every opportunity, and also trying to do things that will almost surely fail. When good, popular policies are shut down by the Republicans, never ever shut up about it. Democrats in my lifetime have been far too willing to concede the fight before it even starts. That needs to end.

As the article notes, this will be a hard fight. But it is a necessary one.

The one time where we could overcome Republican obstructionism, we got the ACA.

I would argue that the ACA was, itself, a symptom of this problem. Is it better than the previous status quo? Sure, but it falls far short of what it could and should have been. The Democrats should have compromised much less and fought harder to make it better.

The truth isIts messaging.  Its the only way.  Through messaging.

I don't think that messaging doesn't matter at all, but I don't agree that it is the only way, nor that it should be the first focus. Make good policy, then message relentlessly about said good policy.

Insofar as the messaging is the problem, I do have some thoughts. The Republicans message, broadly, was "your country is going to shit, and the immigrants and trans people and liberals are to blame. We're going to fix it by fucking all of those people over." The Democrats message, broadly, was "the stock market is up, you don't know how good you have it. Quit your bitching and vote blue no matter who." I can understand why that message didn't really resonate with too many people.

The Democrats need to present an alternative vision for who is fucking you over and how. It's not the illegal immigrants stealing your jobs, it's the rich fucks and corporations who give American jobs away. It's not the liberals who are trying to abolish the minimum wage, restrict access to healthcare, and take away social security, it's the conservatives. It's not the trans people who are trying to molest your children, it's the fundamentalist religious fanatics.

But the messaging has to have some basis in reality. The voters seem to hold the Republicans to a different standard when it comes to that. Tough. The double standard exists, whether we like it or not, so the Democrats will just have to learn to win through it.

Kamala was trying to be inclusive, and that was a mistake. Divisiveness can be useful, actually. Trump ran one of the most divisive campaigns ever, and he fucking crushed it. We can learn from Trump, as horrifying as that is to say. If a Republican impedes Trump's agenda, he calls them out, the base destroys them, and they are left with the option of capitulating or having no future in the party. When Manchin obstructs the Democrat agenda, we play nice with him and try to compromise and appease him so that we can achieve a half measure. That is some weak ass shit that Donald Trump would never tolerate, and the Democrats need to stop tolerating it, too. People talk shit about "purity tests" in politics, but if you don't support the Democrat president's agenda, you don't get to keep being a Democrat from now on. How different would it have been if a generic Republican held Manchin's seat? Not very is my guess.

So yeah, messaging matters, but good policy matters more.

Cameron wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

How, exactly, can Democrats even hope to make people's lives better if they don't win? The truth is, Republicans are exceedingly good at making sure Democrats have no wins to improve lives.  The one time where we could overcome Republican obstructionism, we got the ACA.  That was swell.  How do we get those circumstances again?

This cycle Biden got the inflation reduction act thru, but I bet repubs knew it was too complicated and wasn't going to work fast enough to save dems.  

The truth isIts messaging.  Its the only way.  Through messaging.  Its all trump had this election, it's basically all Republicans ever have.  Any article telling you you can only do, to get the voters, is wrong.  What you need is the right messaging and the right charismatic people delivering it.  Harris had the wrong messaging and had the charisma of a toad.  She and Biden also did very little messaging in the last 4 years to counter the Republican narratives.  Big mistake, huge.

Get a more charismatic person up there, hire some good writers, hire a team of social media experts, hire a comedian to add in levity and to make people smile and laugh to add to the charisma, hammer Republicans on everything every day by creating bizzworthy political events.  Hold 3 day rallies in Dearborn.  Same for Detroit.  Same for Saginaw and Flint.  Make it an event that people have no option but to hear about it.  Drop fliers from the sky, whatever it takes to get traction.  And do it tomorrow through 2028.  The Jon Stewart daily show is a model for success.  Educate through entertainment.  

How, exactly, can Democrats even hope to make people's lives better if they don't win?

For starters, Democrats still control some states at the state level. At the federal level, I would suggest both obstructing the Republicans at every opportunity, and also trying to do things that will almost surely fail. When good, popular policies are shut down by the Republicans, never ever shut up about it. Democrats in my lifetime have been far too willing to concede the fight before it even starts. That needs to end.

As the article notes, this will be a hard fight. But it is a necessary one.

The one time where we could overcome Republican obstructionism, we got the ACA.

I would argue that the ACA was, itself, a symptom of this problem. Is it better than the previous status quo? Sure, but it falls far short of what it could and should have been. The Democrats should have compromised much less and fought harder to make it better.

The truth isIts messaging.  Its the only way.  Through messaging.

I don't think that messaging doesn't matter at all, but I don't agree that it is the only way, nor that it should be the first focus. Make good policy, then message relentlessly about said good policy.

Insofar as the messaging is the problem, I do have some thoughts. The Republicans message, broadly, was "your country is going to shit, and the immigrants and trans people and liberals are to blame. We're going to fix it by fucking all of those people over." The Democrats message, broadly, was "the stock market is up, you don't know how good you have it. Quit your bitching and vote blue no matter who." I can understand why that message didn't really resonate with too many people.

The Democrats need to present an alternative vision for who is fucking you over and how. It's not the illegal immigrants stealing your jobs, it's the rich fucks and corporations who give American jobs away. It's not the liberals who are trying to abolish the minimum wage, restrict access to healthcare, and take away social security, it's the conservatives. It's not the trans people who are trying to molest your children, it's the fundamentalist religious fanatics.

But the messaging has to have some basis in reality. The voters seem to hold the Republicans to a different standard when it comes to that. Tough. The double standard exists, whether we like it or not, so the Democrats will just have to learn to win through it.

Kamala was trying to be inclusive, and that was a mistake. Divisiveness can be useful, actually. Trump ran one of the most divisive campaigns ever, and he fucking crushed it. We can learn from Trump, as horrifying as that is to say. If a Republican impedes Trump's agenda, he calls them out, the base destroys them, and they are left with the option of capitulating or having no future in the party. When Manchin obstructs the Democrat agenda, we play nice with him and try to compromise and appease him so that we can achieve a half measure. That is some weak ass shit that Donald Trump would never tolerate, and the Democrats need to stop tolerating it, too. People talk shit about "purity tests" in politics, but if you don't support the Democrat president's agenda, you don't get to keep being a Democrat from now on. How different would it have been if a generic Republican held Manchin's seat? Not very is my guess.

So yeah, messaging matters, but good policy matters more.

We are basically in agreement but you give a lot more credit to state governments and have a lot more hope in them then I do. States, IMO, can have some impactful legislation but not typically in many of the hot button issues of the day other than education. A well run and growing state I could see doing well, perhaps, but they are most effectively deployed to challenge Republican initiatives. We could put a huge focus on education but seeing the fruits of that could take many years and it costs a ton to greatly enhance, money the states probably just don't have. Frankly I'm surprised whitmer was able to do the school lunch thing. I love the free school lunches but I feel like that may be difficult to keep up long term when times inevitable turn bad. I just don't think a lot of states have the power And money to do what needs to be done. At least not Michigan.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Bob is the smartest guy on here, you aren't mentally fit to wash his car.

The only person here who might be dumber than Bob is you, Mr. Blue Wave.

I'm loving being Mr Blue Wave. It gives me great happyness.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

The only person here who might be dumber than Bob is you, Mr. Blue Wave.

I'm loving being Mr Blue Wave. It gives me great happyness.

Wallow in that ignorance.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kamala-harris-campaign-adviser-reveals-why-she-skipped-joe-rogan-interview/

I don’t really care about Joe Rogan, but progressives throw lots of tantrums.

PennSpartan wrote:https://www.thedailybeast.com/kamala-harris-campaign-adviser-reveals-why-she-skipped-joe-rogan-interview/

I don’t really care about Joe Rogan, but progressives throw lots of tantrums.

Another person that has absolutely no business working as a high level advisor on a campaign. Take a quick little look see at the history of losing that one has. 

You know what that article is bud? It’s finger pointing at the mysterious other instead of…. Oh I don’t know, the campaigns senior advisors.