POS Doctor Nassar will rot in jail forever

Cameron wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Really the athletic department had minimal ties to Nassar. He was under the School of Medicine. You want to talk Klages and the other trainer who were told and did nothing? Sure, bring Hollis into the mix. I've stated before that I want Klages to rot in prison.

To be clear, no information that I'm aware of implicates Hollis in this, really, I just think it's weird that more people want the basketball coach fired than want the AD fired. One sentence of Tom's impromptu statement was weird, but aside from that, I have no earthly idea why anyone thinks he has anything to do with any of this.

Because many people are self-righteous drama queens who want to create a news story where one doesn't exist just so they have some excitement in their lives for a couple of days.

LooseGoose wrote:

Cameron wrote:

To be clear, no information that I'm aware of implicates Hollis in this, really, I just think it's weird that more people want the basketball coach fired than want the AD fired. One sentence of Tom's impromptu statement was weird, but aside from that, I have no earthly idea why anyone thinks he has anything to do with any of this.

It's Lynn Raisman grandstanding mostly. Yet somehow that makes it about the victims. She enjoyed her time in the spotlight while her daughter was competing she should get the hell out of the spotlight now.

Yup. Fucking stage moms.

LooseGoose wrote:

Cameron wrote:

To be clear, no information that I'm aware of implicates Hollis in this, really, I just think it's weird that more people want the basketball coach fired than want the AD fired. One sentence of Tom's impromptu statement was weird, but aside from that, I have no earthly idea why anyone thinks he has anything to do with any of this.

It's Lynn Raisman grandstanding mostly. Yet somehow that makes it about the victims. She enjoyed her time in the spotlight while her daughter was competing she should get the hell out of the spotlight now.

I’m fearful that many at our school are looking for a scapegoat. If firing LAKS or Hollis satisfies that, I hope it doesn’t deter a thorough investigation. I’m blind, I guess, to seeing how offering up a sacrifice will quell any bad pr we’re getting. I want huge investigations and jail terms if warranted. I hope we do this right and not fast. If fast is right then so be it. But this mom, who has a broken heart will not be the only survivor calling for instant justice. Which sometimes just isn’t the right way.

LooseGoose wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm not part of the lynch mob. I am increasingly seeing that side of the coin. I'm not screaming from the treetops she needs to resign. I've been pretty consistent. I'm saying I agree with Lyons' statement despite him being a piece of shit. I don't care if he's a piece of shit, his message was pretty spot on. If Trump wrote it I would say the same thing. I'd be fine with her staying on if she and the BoT could somehow pull a 180 and prove to these victims that they really are listening and do care. I'm afraid that train has left the station/toothpaste is out of the tube/whatever you want to say.

The public outcry matters in that it's going to get too noisy (if it hasn't already) for her to remain. But really what matters here is THE VICTIMS. They need this to happen in order to heal. That is what is important and that is wear LAKS and the BoT have been completely tone deaf. If they had handled it better than we might not be at this point.

Read this. Read it again. It's fair and accurate. This is where LAKS and MSU has failed since this thing came to light.

https://theathletic.com/217215/2018/01/20/endorsement-of-msu-president-simon-a-slap-in-the-face-for-nassars-survivors/

Is Lynn Raisman a victim?

Yes

duffy munn wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Is Lynn Raisman a victim?

Yes

Please elaborate on why you feel that way?

Cameron wrote:

DWags wrote:

If it helps the victims heal? No? Ok.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my opinion that LKS should be out is not based on the idea that it would help the victims to heal. It is based on the fact that she is the president of the ENTIRE UNIVERSITY, and this shit happened on her watch. The buck stops with her.

That doesn't apply in most other cases where an employee commits a crime. Or at least not in cases that don't have a lot of media focus. The whole "under her watch" and "buck stops with her" is just so overly reductive. It's basically saying that we want blood, so the bigger the fish the more blood.

If she goes, she goes, whatever. I won't be bothered about it either way (based on what we know at this point). But this is very complicated, because he had this cover of the procedure. I had only read the tweets from the SN reporter from the first day of victim testimony (couldn't stomach more), but I was surprised how many had parents in the room when he abused them. So you have parents in the room, you have doctors agreeing that the procedures are legit, you have county prosecutors not seeing enough evidence to charge him, etc. But we want to blame LAKS? Like I said, bigger fish = more blood. If that's what you guys feel you need to make it feel like MSU cares, so be it. Sometimes people need a scapegoat. She is just a scapegoat, though (based on what we know now), and focusing on ignores where the real problems lied.

If it is shown that LAKS or any other MSU official has any amount of criminal culpability, I hope they get strung up by their balls/nipples.

LooseGoose wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

Yes

Please elaborate on why you feel that way?

Pretty sure if it was your daughter you would feel victimized. This women probably thinks about what this monster did to her little girl every single day. Likely beats herself up for not knowing it was happening and putting her child in the position to be the victim of these heinous crimes.

Hell, I feel victimized and all I did was go to school at MSU.

How ever she feels the need to vent is ok by me. so should took a shot at Tom Izzo. Big fucking deal.

duffy munn wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Please elaborate on why you feel that way?

Pretty sure if it was your daughter you would feel victimized. This women probably thinks about what this monster did to her little girl every single day. Likely beats herself up for not knowing it was happening and putting her child in the position to be the victim of these heinous crimes.

Hell, I feel victimized and all I did was go to school at MSU.

How ever she feels the need to vent is ok by me. so should took a shot at Tom Izzo. Big fucking deal.

Fair enough. A different perspective. I don't agree with some of it but know how you could see it that way.

saw LAKS this morning at Starbucks. Gotta at least give it up to her for not staying hidden away in her office or at Cowles House.

duffy munn wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Please elaborate on why you feel that way?

Pretty sure if it was your daughter you would feel victimized. This women probably thinks about what this monster did to her little girl every single day. Likely beats herself up for not knowing it was happening and putting her child in the position to be the victim of these heinous crimes.

Hell, I feel victimized and all I did was go to school at MSU.

How ever she feels the need to vent is ok by me. so should took a shot at Tom Izzo. Big fucking deal.

agree with all of this.

There's a reason why our legal system does all it can to prevent victims/families of crimes to sit on juries in similar trials. Their views are understandably altered by personal tragedies and experiences. We can't/shouldn't hold them responsible for these predispositions.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Cameron wrote:I can't speak for anyone else, but my opinion that LKS should be out is not based on the idea that it would help the victims to heal. It is based on the fact that she is the president of the ENTIRE UNIVERSITY, and this shit happened on her watch. The buck stops with her.

That doesn't apply in most other cases where an employee commits a crime.  Or at least not in cases that don't have a lot of media focus.  The whole "under her watch" and "buck stops with her" is just so overly reductive.  It's basically saying that we want blood, so the bigger the fish the more blood.

If she goes, she goes, whatever.  I won't be bothered about it either way (based on what we know at this point).  But this is very complicated, because he had this cover of the procedure.  I had only read the tweets from the SN reporter from the first day of victim testimony (couldn't stomach more), but I was surprised how many had parents in the room when he abused them.  So you have parents in the room, you have doctors agreeing that the procedures are legit, you have county prosecutors not seeing enough evidence to charge him, etc.  But we want to blame LAKS?  Like I said, bigger fish = more blood.  If that's what you guys feel you need to make it feel like MSU cares, so be it.  Sometimes people need a scapegoat.  She is just a scapegoat, though (based on what we know now), and focusing on ignores where the real problems lied.

If it is shown that LAKS or any other MSU official has any amount of criminal culpability, I hope they get strung up by their balls/nipples.

I don't see LKS as a scapegoat or simply a big fish to fry.  I honestly feel she had a responsibility to do more.

Here are the basics of the 2014 Title IX complaint filed with MSU:

The woman, identified in the lawsuit as Jane AAA Doe, saw the former MSU doctor in March 2014 at his campus office for a treatment for hip pain. A month later she told the university's internal Title IX investigator that during the appointment Nassar cupped her buttocks, massaged her breast and vaginal area, and was "extremely close" to inserting a finger into her vagina, according to university records.

She shared her story with the State Journal last year and said there were two facts she reported to an investigator that weren't included in the final report. The woman, who the State Journal isn't identifying because she has made accusations of sexual assault, said Nassar was sexually aroused while he was touching her and, despite her requests that he stop, he didn't stop touching her until she physically removed his hands from her body.

Three months after the university opened an internal investigation, it cleared Nassar of any violations of MSU's sexual assault and harassment policy and said that the woman didn't understand the "nuanced difference" between sexual assault and an appropriate medical procedure.

I am not a doctor but I am quite certain that what occurred was not an appropriate medical procedure.  After investigating the complaint, the MSU Police were also convinced that a sexual assault occurred instead of an appropriate medical procedure.

Back to LKS.  My understanding is that she was aware that Nassar was being investigated for sexual assault.  She also was aware that a report was produced but claims that "the report was not provided to her."  Clearly she had access to the report, she could have read the report, she chose not to.  Nassar was a fairly high profile MSU employee.  Obviously not Izzo/Dantonio level, but not some laborer at Central Stores either.

Again, I feel the head of the University should have been involved.  (I have a theory of why she chose not to, but that is simply my theory.)  I do not feel that sticking your head in the sand is an acceptable course of action when one of your employees is accused of sexual assault on your campus.  But that is just my opinion.

But she told people to play it straight up... what else did you want her to do? She’s only the president, not like the basketball coach or something.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Cameron wrote:

I can't speak for anyone else, but my opinion that LKS should be out is not based on the idea that it would help the victims to heal. It is based on the fact that she is the president of the ENTIRE UNIVERSITY, and this shit happened on her watch. The buck stops with her.

That doesn't apply in most other cases where an employee commits a crime. Or at least not in cases that don't have a lot of media focus. The whole "under her watch" and "buck stops with her" is just so overly reductive. It's basically saying that we want blood, so the bigger the fish the more blood.

If she goes, she goes, whatever. I won't be bothered about it either way (based on what we know at this point). But this is very complicated, because he had this cover of the procedure. I had only read the tweets from the SN reporter from the first day of victim testimony (couldn't stomach more), but I was surprised how many had parents in the room when he abused them. So you have parents in the room, you have doctors agreeing that the procedures are legit, you have county prosecutors not seeing enough evidence to charge him, etc. But we want to blame LAKS? Like I said, bigger fish = more blood. If that's what you guys feel you need to make it feel like MSU cares, so be it. Sometimes people need a scapegoat. She is just a scapegoat, though (based on what we know now), and focusing on ignores where the real problems lied.

If it is shown that LAKS or any other MSU official has any amount of criminal culpability, I hope they get strung up by their balls/nipples.

There are some real dumb asses, however, that believe if you don’t want firings immediately you’re on the side of keeping her and perhaps even anti victim. If she’s not afforded due process, we’ve perhaps dropped the ball twice. If she resigns, that’s fine, it won’t stop the chorus of outrage, but it will help those who want her out yesterday.

The whole thing sucks. But I refuse to join those who need immediate resignation or firing without taking a step back and realizing we’re doing this in the court of public opinion. I don’t think she survives this, partly because she’s stand up enough to weigh everything out, but I’ll continue to smh at those who believe being pro due process is being anti victim. P

MSU addict wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
That doesn't apply in most other cases where an employee commits a crime.  Or at least not in cases that don't have a lot of media focus.  The whole "under her watch" and "buck stops with her" is just so overly reductive.  It's basically saying that we want blood, so the bigger the fish the more blood.

If she goes, she goes, whatever.  I won't be bothered about it either way (based on what we know at this point).  But this is very complicated, because he had this cover of the procedure.  I had only read the tweets from the SN reporter from the first day of victim testimony (couldn't stomach more), but I was surprised how many had parents in the room when he abused them.  So you have parents in the room, you have doctors agreeing that the procedures are legit, you have county prosecutors not seeing enough evidence to charge him, etc.  But we want to blame LAKS?  Like I said, bigger fish = more blood.  If that's what you guys feel you need to make it feel like MSU cares, so be it.  Sometimes people need a scapegoat.  She is just a scapegoat, though (based on what we know now), and focusing on ignores where the real problems lied.

If it is shown that LAKS or any other MSU official has any amount of criminal culpability, I hope they get strung up by their balls/nipples.

I don't see LKS as a scapegoat or simply a big fish to fry.  I honestly feel she had a responsibility to do more.

Here are the basics of the 2014 Title IX complaint filed with MSU:

The woman, identified in the lawsuit as Jane AAA Doe, saw the former MSU doctor in March 2014 at his campus office for a treatment for hip pain. A month later she told the university's internal Title IX investigator that during the appointment Nassar cupped her buttocks, massaged her breast and vaginal area, and was "extremely close" to inserting a finger into her vagina, according to university records.

She shared her story with the State Journal last year and said there were two facts she reported to an investigator that weren't included in the final report. The woman, who the State Journal isn't identifying because she has made accusations of sexual assault, said Nassar was sexually aroused while he was touching her and, despite her requests that he stop, he didn't stop touching her until she physically removed his hands from her body.

Three months after the university opened an internal investigation, it cleared Nassar of any violations of MSU's sexual assault and harassment policy and said that the woman didn't understand the "nuanced difference" between sexual assault and an appropriate medical procedure.

I am not a doctor but I am quite certain that what occurred was not an appropriate medical procedure.  After investigating the complaint, the MSU Police were also convinced that a sexual assault occurred instead of an appropriate medical procedure.

Back to LKS.  My understanding is that she was aware that Nassar was being investigated for sexual assault.  She also was aware that a report was produced but claims that "the report was not provided to her."  Clearly she had access to the report, she could have read the report, she chose not to.  Nassar was a fairly high profile MSU employee.  Obviously not Izzo/Dantonio level, but not some laborer at Central Stores either.

Again, I feel the head of the University should have been involved.  (I have a theory of why she chose not to, but that is simply my theory.)  I do not feel that sticking your head in the sand is an acceptable course of action when one of your employees is accused of sexual assault on your campus.  But that is just my opinion.

Very much this.

I know it's just a movie.

I know it doesn't fit this case.

But if you're bored and want an old movie to watch try "12 Angry Men"

It's held up pretty well and was filmed as an ode to due process and the American Justice system.

LooseGoose wrote:I know it's just a movie.

I know it doesn't fit this case.

But if you're bored and want an old movie to watch try "12 Angry Men"

It's held up pretty well and was filmed as an ode to due process and the American Justice system.

Love that movie. I bought it.

LooseGoose wrote:I know it's just a movie.

I know it doesn't fit this case.

But if you're bored and want an old movie to watch try "12 Angry Men"

It's held up pretty well and was filmed as an ode to due process and the American Justice system.

I have seen it. It is a good movie, but with dated stereotypes and you are correct it does not fit this case.

FWIW, I am confused by the whole "due process" argument. If LKS is charged with a crime (which I sincerely doubt) she will be afforded due process, just as Nassar was.

As an employee, the only due process she is entitled should be spelled out in her employment contact.

MSU addict wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
That doesn't apply in most other cases where an employee commits a crime.  Or at least not in cases that don't have a lot of media focus.  The whole "under her watch" and "buck stops with her" is just so overly reductive.  It's basically saying that we want blood, so the bigger the fish the more blood.

If she goes, she goes, whatever.  I won't be bothered about it either way (based on what we know at this point).  But this is very complicated, because he had this cover of the procedure.  I had only read the tweets from the SN reporter from the first day of victim testimony (couldn't stomach more), but I was surprised how many had parents in the room when he abused them.  So you have parents in the room, you have doctors agreeing that the procedures are legit, you have county prosecutors not seeing enough evidence to charge him, etc.  But we want to blame LAKS?  Like I said, bigger fish = more blood.  If that's what you guys feel you need to make it feel like MSU cares, so be it.  Sometimes people need a scapegoat.  She is just a scapegoat, though (based on what we know now), and focusing on ignores where the real problems lied.

If it is shown that LAKS or any other MSU official has any amount of criminal culpability, I hope they get strung up by their balls/nipples.

I don't see LKS as a scapegoat or simply a big fish to fry.  I honestly feel she had a responsibility to do more.

Here are the basics of the 2014 Title IX complaint filed with MSU:

The woman, identified in the lawsuit as Jane AAA Doe, saw the former MSU doctor in March 2014 at his campus office for a treatment for hip pain. A month later she told the university's internal Title IX investigator that during the appointment Nassar cupped her buttocks, massaged her breast and vaginal area, and was "extremely close" to inserting a finger into her vagina, according to university records.

She shared her story with the State Journal last year and said there were two facts she reported to an investigator that weren't included in the final report. The woman, who the State Journal isn't identifying because she has made accusations of sexual assault, said Nassar was sexually aroused while he was touching her and, despite her requests that he stop, he didn't stop touching her until she physically removed his hands from her body.

Three months after the university opened an internal investigation, it cleared Nassar of any violations of MSU's sexual assault and harassment policy and said that the woman didn't understand the "nuanced difference" between sexual assault and an appropriate medical procedure.

I am not a doctor but I am quite certain that what occurred was not an appropriate medical procedure.  After investigating the complaint, the MSU Police were also convinced that a sexual assault occurred instead of an appropriate medical procedure.

Back to LKS.  My understanding is that she was aware that Nassar was being investigated for sexual assault.  She also was aware that a report was produced but claims that "the report was not provided to her."  Clearly she had access to the report, she could have read the report, she chose not to. Nassar was a fairly high profile MSU employee.  Obviously not Izzo/Dantonio level, but not some laborer at Central Stores either.

Again, I feel the head of the University should have been involved.  (I have a theory of why she chose not to, but that is simply my theory.)  I do not feel that sticking you head in the sand is an acceptable course of action when one of your employees is accused of sexual assault on your campus.  But that is just my opinion.

Yes, the police recommended an arrest. The prosecutor's office disagreed. That's important. It says the lawyers didnt think there was a legal case. That or the prosecutors are pro-assault, but that has nothing to do with LAKS.

So again, Title IX investigation finds it ok. Prosecutors office won't charge. Medical professionals say the procedure is legit. But she's supposed to disregard all of that? And if the part about him being aroused and not stopping was not included in the report, then LAKS wouldn't have read that anyway. So she knows there is an investigation/report, and I would assume she learns that doctors testified that it was a legit procedure and the investigation found no wrong doing. So is it that awful thay she didn't read the report if she already knows the outcome? And if she had read it, what then? Would you expect her to disagree with experts? Overturn the ruling?

MSU addict wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:I know it's just a movie.

I know it doesn't fit this case.

But if you're bored and want an old movie to watch try "12 Angry Men"

It's held up pretty well and was filmed as an ode to due process and the American Justice system.

As an employee, the only due process she is entitled should be spelled out in her employment contact.

And what’s that?

SawGreen wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:I know it's just a movie.

I know it doesn't fit this case.

But if you're bored and want an old movie to watch try "12 Angry Men"

It's held up pretty well and was filmed as an ode to due process and the American Justice system.

Love that movie. I bought it.

Haven't seen the movie, but I played the one man standing against the rest in a play in 7th grade.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

SawGreen wrote:

Love that movie. I bought it.

Haven't seen the movie, but I played the one man standing against the rest in a play in 7th grade.

Henry Fonda. Great movie. The legal process doesn’t apply here, but the idea of the story might.

DWags wrote:

MSU addict wrote:

As an employee, the only due process she is entitled should be spelled out in her employment contact.  

And what’s that?  

Provide me with a copy of the contract and I will tell you.  But my guess would be she serves at the pleasure of the board and can be terminated with or without cause with some severance provision if she is terminated without cause.

MSU addict wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:I know it's just a movie.

I know it doesn't fit this case.

But if you're bored and want an old movie to watch try "12 Angry Men"

It's held up pretty well and was filmed as an ode to due process and the American Justice system.

I have seen it. It is a good movie, but with dated stereotypes and you are correct it does not fit this case.

FWIW, I am confused by the whole "due process" argument. If LKS is charged with a crime (which I sincerely doubt) she will be afforded due process, just as Nassar was.

As an employee, the only due process she is entitled should be spelled out in her employment contact.

Sorry to be confusing, I wasn't arguing due process so much for her right now in a criminal sense but more in an overall sense. Let the facts come out and then decide. Many here are assuming she knew much more, much earlier than has been reported I'm not so sure of that.

MSU addict wrote:

DWags wrote:

And what’s that?

Provide me with a copy of the contract and I will tell you. But my guess would be she serves at the pleasure of the broad and can be terminated with or without cause with some severance provision if she is terminated without cause.

I’m just not willing to guess. However, there are a ton of people who are. But you’re dead on here. It’s just guessing.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

Pretty sure if it was your daughter you would feel victimized. This women probably thinks about what this monster did to her little girl every single day. Likely beats herself up for not knowing it was happening and putting her child in the position to be the victim of these heinous crimes.

Hell, I feel victimized and all I did was go to school at MSU.

How ever she feels the need to vent is ok by me. so should took a shot at Tom Izzo. Big fucking deal.

agree with all of this.

There's a reason why our legal system does all it can to prevent victims/families of crimes to sit on juries in similar trials. Their views are understandably altered by personal tragedies and experiences. We can't/shouldn't hold them responsible for these predispositions.

Anything that can even be remotely viewed as a criticism of the victims and their families is way out of bounds.

( not a shot at you goose)

I've heard to many people say " oh, what about the parents? Why didn't they know? Where's their culpability?"

It's bullshit and it pisses me off. The fucking monster fooled everyone. It's what they do.

LooseGoose wrote:

MSU addict wrote:I have seen it. It is a good movie, but with dated stereotypes and you are correct it does not fit this case.

FWIW, I am confused by the whole "due process" argument. If LKS is charged with a crime (which I sincerely doubt) she will be afforded due process, just as Nassar was.

As an employee, the only due process she is entitled should be spelled out in her employment contact.

Sorry to be confusing, I wasn't arguing due process so much for her right now in a criminal sense but more in an overall sense. Let the facts come out and then decide. Many here are assuming she knew much more, much earlier than has been reported I'm not so sure of that.

While I agree with that, there is the time honored argument of, “She should have known”. That’s what I’m reading in an overwhelming volume. Hard to come up with a defense for that. I don’t have one for those who are convinced of that.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

MSU addict wrote:
I don't see LKS as a scapegoat or simply a big fish to fry.  I honestly feel she had a responsibility to do more.

Here are the basics of the 2014 Title IX complaint filed with MSU:


I am not a doctor but I am quite certain that what occurred was not an appropriate medical procedure.  After investigating the complaint, the MSU Police were also convinced that a sexual assault occurred instead of an appropriate medical procedure.

Back to LKS.  My understanding is that she was aware that Nassar was being investigated for sexual assault.  She also was aware that a report was produced but claims that "the report was not provided to her."  Clearly she had access to the report, she could have read the report, she chose not to.  Nassar was a fairly high profile MSU employee.  Obviously not Izzo/Dantonio level, but not some laborer at Central Stores either.

Again, I feel the head of the University should have been involved.  (I have a theory of why she chose not to, but that is simply my theory.)  I do not feel that sticking you head in the sand is an acceptable course of action when one of your employees is accused of sexual assault on your campus.  But that is just my opinion.

Yes, the police recommended an arrest.  The prosecutor's office disagreed.  That's important.  It says the lawyers didnt think there was a legal case.  That or the prosecutors are pro-assault, but that has nothing to do with LAKS.

So again, Title IX investigation finds it ok.  Prosecutors office won't charge.  Medical professionals say the procedure is legit.  But she's supposed to disregard all of that?  And if the part about him being aroused and not stopping was not included in the report, then LAKS wouldn't have read that anyway.  So she knows there is an investigation/report, and I would assume she learns that doctors testified that it was a legit procedure and the investigation found no wrong doing.  So is it that awful thay she didn't read the report if she already knows the outcome?  And if she had read it, what then?  Would you expect her to disagree with experts?  Overturn the ruling?  

First off, I believe the prosecutor at the time was Stuart Dunnings III, who of course would later be charged with his own crimes of a sexual nature.  Even if we assume that had no relevance, the prosecutor would have wrongly concluded they could not obtain a conviction.  They of course based their decision in large part based on the Title IX report that MSU produced (more on that later).  I think current events show that a conviction was possible and he should have been charged with a crime.

MSU Title IX investigator did wrongly conclude that no sexual assault had taken place, when in fact one had occurred.  They based their finding on the opinions of four physicians with close ties to Nassar and in at least in instance was recommended by Nassar himself.  I believe one of those for physicians was fired by MSU because it later found she removed files from Nassar office while he was under investigation.  Should I also point out that two separate reports were produced,  the much cleaner version of which was provided to the victim.  And even though the report wrongly concluded no assault had occurred, it recommend changes that MSU apparently forgot to actually follow up on.

Back to LKS - yes, I expected her to read the report.  Yes, I expected her to at least ask a few questions after doing so, including talking to the police and the Title IX coordinator (you know the one she appointed).  Yes, I did expect her to take some action.

I expected her to say not just "play it straight up" but - "play it straight up and let me know if there is a problem."

duffy munn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: agree with all of this.

There's a reason why our legal system does all it can to prevent victims/families of crimes to sit on juries in similar trials. Their views are understandably altered by personal tragedies and experiences. We can't/shouldn't hold them responsible for these predispositions.

Anything that can even be remotely viewed as a criticism of the victims and their families is way out of bounds.

( not a shot at you goose)

I've heard to many people say " oh, what about the parents? Why didn't they know? Where's their culpability?"

It's bullshit and it pisses me off. The fucking monster fooled everyone. It's what they do.

A parent was in the room and I don’t blame their ignorance of the procedures. I also don’t blame their outrage now.

duffy munn wrote:The fucking monster fooled everyone. It's what they do.

And yet heads on platters are demanded.

I agree with that if someone aided and abetted.

I agree with that if someone didn't follow procedure.

I don't agree with sacrificing someone just to draw some blood in retaliation.

That's where I have the problem with the blind rage calling for LAKS and Izzo's heads.

LooseGoose wrote:

duffy munn wrote:The fucking monster fooled everyone. It's what they do.

And yet heads on platters are demanded.

I agree with that if someone aided and abetted.

I agree with that if someone didn't follow procedure.

I don't agree with sacrificing someone just to draw some blood in retaliation.

That's where I have the problem with the blind rage calling for LAKS and Izzo's heads.

Careful.

LooseGoose wrote:

duffy munn wrote:The fucking monster fooled everyone. It's what they do.

And yet heads on platters are demanded.  

I agree with that if someone aided and abetted.

I agree with that if someone didn't follow procedure.

I don't agree with sacrificing someone just to draw some blood in retaliation.

That's where I have the problem with the blind rage calling for LAKS and Izzo's heads.

Let me ask you a question.  Given what we know today, are you proud of the way MSU has handled things?

I also don't understand why people who support LKS are lumping Izzo in with her. They are completely different issues.  Izzo said something that was nonsensical.  He should apologize for the "I hope the right person was convicted" remark and we should move on.

The izzo thing is a strawman to weaken anything about LAKS. No one is really talking about it here, it’s a boogeyman on fucking Twitter. Unfortunately the Penn State mindset isn’t just in happy valley.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:The izzo thing is a strawman to weaken anything about LAKS. No one is really talking about it here, it’s a boogeyman on fucking Twitter. Unfortunately the Penn State mindset isn’t just in happy valley.

Name one person here defending anyone with prior knowledge of the molestation.

When you do that with facts I'll agree we've reached Penn State level.

Statement released from Izzo. Check BF Quinn's Twitter

MSU addict wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

And yet heads on platters are demanded.  

I agree with that if someone aided and abetted.

I agree with that if someone didn't follow procedure.

I don't agree with sacrificing someone just to draw some blood in retaliation.

That's where I have the problem with the blind rage calling for LAKS and Izzo's heads.

Let me ask you a question.  Given what we know today, are you proud of the way MSU has handled things?

I also don't understand why people who support LKS are lumping Izzo in with her. They are completely different issues.  Izzo said something that was nonsensical.  He should apologize for the "I hope the right person was convicted" remark and we should move on.

Proud is a loaded word. Satisfied? Maybe at best. Do I think they've done wrong? I'm not sure. In fact it's my entire point. Why the rush to judgment? Why not wait and see what is found after the investigations are over? I read the report that WBH linked and the "14 people" headline misleads you into thinking that 14 people were told and did nothing which isn't true.


And here's where I ignore the words of Wags to be careful.

What about the people that knew this was going on for many years? Why weren't they louder? Why is all the culpability being dumped on MSU right now? I said this earlier but what about USA Gymanstics? What about the Karolyis? What about those that knew this was going on and went silent for 15 years?

LooseGoose wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:The izzo thing is a strawman to weaken anything about LAKS. No one is really talking about it here, it’s a boogeyman on fucking Twitter. Unfortunately the Penn State mindset isn’t just in happy valley.

Name one person here defending anyone with prior knowledge of the molestation.

When you do that with facts I'll agree we've reached Penn State level.

Sadly Goose, the intellectually stunted will now start making wild accusations because they’re incapable of anything else. Thus the “careful”
Penn state like? Jesus.

Jesus, here’s a guy who is outing posters on the rcmb now. Jeff Moss Detroit sports rag.

outing rcmb posters.

LooseGoose wrote:

MSU addict wrote:
Let me ask you a question.  Given what we know today, are you proud of the way MSU has handled things?

I also don't understand why people who support LKS are lumping Izzo in with her. They are completely different issues.  Izzo said something that was nonsensical.  He should apologize for the "I hope the right person was convicted" remark and we should move on.

Proud is a loaded word. Satisfied? Maybe at best. Do I think they've done wrong? I'm not sure. In fact it's my entire point. Why the rush to judgment? Why not wait and see what is found after the investigations are over? I read the report that WBH linked and the "14 people" headline misleads you into thinking that 14 people were told and did nothing which isn't true.


And here's where I ignore the words of Wags to be careful.

What about the people that knew this was going on for many years? Why weren't they louder? Why is all the culpability being dumped on MSU right now? I said this earlier but what about USA Gymanstics? What about the Karolyis? What about those that knew this was going on and went silent for 15 years?

Proud is a loaded word, but I will use another loaded word to sum up my feelings as to how MSU has handled things - ashamed.

It has been well over a year since MSU fired Nassar. I am not sure I am rushing to judgement. In fact, I would argue that MSU has slow played the investigation.

I don't think that anyone is giving a pass to USA Gymnastcis or the Karolyis. If USA Gymnastics paid multiple gymnasts to keep quite while allowing Nassar to continue, I hope they can be criminally charged. This however is an MSU message board, and that is our focus.

MSU has bigger pockets than USA gymnastics. Lawyers are coming after MSU. We're self loathing enough to accept everything and fall on the sword.

DWags wrote:Jesus, here’s a guy who is outing posters on the rcmb now. Jeff Moss Detroit sports rag.

outing rcmb posters.

That guy was acting like an idiot though. Pretty embarrassing shit he said over twitter.