POS Doctor Nassar will rot in jail forever

MiamiSpartan wrote:

DWags wrote:

I really don’t know if many of us fully realize what’s going on. Take this snap shot of the mob mentality towards us and let’s see what our university is like in five years. I’ve now heard casual conversations about “I’d never send my kids there”. I’m at the point where I’m not sure it’s reversible. . It’s bad. I really think we need a huge plan to publicly fight this. When was the last time you saw a “Spartans Will” commercial? Anywhere?

People are idiots. "I used to take 1st St home every night, but there was a murder there, and now the police spend more time on that street, so I'm not driving there again. I'll take 2nd St instead." Yeah, that'll make a difference.

So yeah, those people can blissfully send their kids somewhere else, ignorantly thinking that they're any safer. I've been saying it since the OTL report, the media is missing the chance to start a real conversation about a national problem because people don't want to hear that this stuff happens everywhere (Nassar shit doesn't, but sexual assault at colleges is a huge national problem...and to be clear, happening everywhere doesn't make it ok by any means).

As for Spartans Will ads, I can't even imagine the outrage in the media and on Twitter if we were to run ads promoting MSU right now. We'd get destroyed for daring to talk up the University and for spending money that could otherwise go to the victims. It would be as if Engler and a group of football players wearing Rather Hall ski masks raided the prison to bust Nassar out, with Will Gholston twisting the prison guards' hats as Draymond Green punched them in the nuts.

Seriously, though, until the lawsuits are settled, we can't begin to rebuild the brand. And probably for a long while the advertising will have to be pretty much a PSA against sexual assault (not a bad thing, at all).

Nip the lies and bullshit in the bud when it can be, though, but we can only spend so much effort on that before getting criticized for forgetting about Nassar's victims.

steveschneider wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
People are idiots. "I used to take 1st St home every night, but there was a murder there, and now the police spend more time on that street, so I'm not driving there again. I'll take 2nd St instead." Yeah, that'll make a difference.

So yeah, those people can blissfully send their kids somewhere else, ignorantly thinking that they're any safer. I've been saying it since the OTL report, the media is missing the chance to start a real conversation about a national problem because people don't want to hear that this stuff happens everywhere (Nassar shit doesn't, but sexual assault at colleges is a huge national problem...and to be clear, happening everywhere doesn't make it ok by any means).

As for Spartans Will ads, I can't even imagine the outrage in the media and on Twitter if we were to run ads promoting MSU right now. We'd get destroyed for daring to talk up the University and for spending money that could otherwise go to the victims. It would be as if Engler and a group of football players wearing Rather Hall ski masks raided the prison to bust Nassar out, with Will Gholston twisting the prison guards' hats as Draymond Green punched them in the nuts.

Seriously, though, until the lawsuits are settled, we can't begin to rebuild the brand. And probably for a long while the advertising will have to be pretty much a PSA against sexual assault (not a bad thing, at all).

Nip the lies and bullshit in the bud when it can be, though, but we can only spend so much effort on that before getting criticized for forgetting about Nassar's victims.

I’m with you on the call for a National conversation. The whole thing needs an overhaul. Right now MSU is in the crosshairs. Before too long there will be another school with a massive scandal. I’m not rooting for it, I just think it’s just that no one is addressing the real issues.

So many top athletes got away with assault in college. Peyton Manning was a sick fuck at Tennessee. What about Jameis Winston at FSU? This shit will happen again and again and again...

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I’m with you on the call for a National conversation. The whole thing needs an overhaul. Right now MSU is in the crosshairs. Before too long there will be another school with a massive scandal. I’m not rooting for it, I just think it’s just that no one is addressing the real issues.

So many top athletes got away with assault in college. Peyton Manning was a sick fuck at Tennessee. What about Jameis Winston at FSU? This shit will happen again and again and again...

I agree steveschneider

I've often thought...for other fanbases slinging shit right now. Just wait....it's coming to your doorstep. And when it does, you're going to do the whole "I will not condemn until I know all of the facts" thing that many of us have done in the wake of PSU, Baylor, etc. I know this is petty but I particularly can't wait until something horrible happens in AA.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I don't know guys. I don't think the media headlines were warranted here but I'm just saying you KNOW they're going to do it, you know you can't stop it, so why let it bother you?

Idiots are going to look at this and scream RAPE CULTURE! And yes, that's what the media wants.

But to the more astute observer willing to distill the information, I also think it's totally fair at this point to say hmm, these emails came across the desk of people in power at MSU and given what we know, it's fair to question their handling of this. Sounds like we didn't recruit anyone from that program in a long time. Maybe there should have been some kind of official stance in that regard. Maybe not. Maybe they should have elevated the accusations to someone on the chain. Maybe not. Fair to ask because there have been repeated failures in MSU's response to things like this that have come to light. We weren't prepared or set up to handle shit correctly and when the shit hit the fan, we failed. Badly. So you can't tell me it's not news at all. I'm an alum. I'm trying to tune a lot of this out but this was interesting to me, so it's news.

And it's also completely fair, whether you like it or not, to wonder what the fuck is going on in the Athletic department and yes that includes revenue sports. I'm particularly weirded out about basketball. I know Izzo is a good guy but what kind of kids is he recruiting and what is he telling them? Or not telling them? In 10 years there are 3 accusations of gang rape. That's fucked up. I know all of the facts of the Appling/Payne thing, trust me. And there's nothing official on the other 2...but still...can you remove yourself enough to say what the fuck? That's pretty fucked up.? Not that many kids come through the basketball program, unlike football. What, 15 a year, maybe 30% turnover year to year? So 90 kids in 10 years and 3 gang rape accusations?

And stuff due process up your butthole if you're going to tell me the things that females can do to keep themselves safe and avoid these kind of situations. Cuz I have a list of things that males on campus can do to avoid these kind of situations as well and apparently those in our B-ball and football programs haven't done those things very diligently.

Does it tie to Nassar directly? Fuck no. Indirectly? Yeah maybe a little. This is the point even if the media wants to get everyone in a frenzy. Maybe, probably there is and was something there in our leadership and processes that we had set up that let some stuff go unchecked that should have been checked.

And it's not mutually exclusive that this can be true and Dantonio can be super religious and Izzo can be a great guy and Cole Chewins and Miles Bridges can be great kids raised with the right morals. I think it's time alums, even the top 5%ers realize that something is/was off and it needs fixing. Maybe it's not always the media's fault. It's not OUR fault and we can still love our University but hey, some people fucked up and we gotta do better.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I don't know guys. I don't think the media headlines were warranted here but I'm just saying you KNOW they're going to do it, you know you can't stop it, so why let it bother you?

Idiots are going to look at this and scream RAPE CULTURE! And yes, that's what the media wants.

But to the more astute observer willing to distill the information, I also think it's totally fair at this point to say hmm, these emails came across the desk of people in power at MSU and given what we know, it's fair to question their handling of this. Sounds like we didn't recruit anyone from that program in a long time. Maybe there should have been some kind of official stance in that regard. Maybe not. Maybe they should have elevated the accusations to someone on the chain. Maybe not. Fair to ask because there have been repeated failures in MSU's response to things like this that have come to light. We weren't prepared or set up to handle shit correctly and when the shit hit the fan, we failed. Badly. So you can't tell me it's not news at all. I'm an alum. I'm trying to tune a lot of this out but this was interesting to me, so it's news.

And it's also completely fair, whether you like it or not, to wonder what the fuck is going on in the Athletic department and yes that includes revenue sports. I'm particularly weirded out about basketball. I know Izzo is a good guy but what kind of kids is he recruiting and what is he telling them? Or not telling them? In 10 years there are 3 accusations of gang rape. That's fucked up. I know all of the facts of the Appling/Payne thing, trust me. And there's nothing official on the other 2...but still...can you remove yourself enough to say what the fuck? That's pretty fucked up.? Not that many kids come through the basketball program, unlike football. What, 15 a year, maybe 30% turnover year to year? So 90 kids in 10 years and 3 gang rape accusations?

And stuff due process up your butthole if you're going to tell me the things that females can do to keep themselves safe and avoid these kind of situations. Cuz I have a list of things that males on campus can do to avoid these kind of situations as well and apparently those in our B-ball and football programs haven't done those things very diligently.

Does it tie to Nassar directly? Fuck no. Indirectly? Yeah maybe a little. This is the point even if the media wants to get everyone in a frenzy. Maybe, probably there is and was something there in our leadership and processes that we had set up that let some stuff go unchecked that should have been checked.

And it's not mutually exclusive that this can be true and Dantonio can be super religious and Izzo can be a great guy and Cole Chewins and Miles Bridges can be great kids raised with the right morals. I think it's time alums, even the top 5%ers realize that something is/was off and it needs fixing. Maybe it's not always the media's fault. It's not OUR fault and we can still love our University but hey, some people fucked up and we gotta do better.

DWags wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I don't know guys. I don't think the media headlines were warranted here but I'm just saying you KNOW they're going to do it, you know you can't stop it, so why let it bother you?

Idiots are going to look at this and scream RAPE CULTURE! And yes, that's what the media wants.

But to the more astute observer willing to distill the information, I also think it's totally fair at this point to say hmm, these emails came across the desk of people in power at MSU and given what we know, it's fair to question their handling of this. Sounds like we didn't recruit anyone from that program in a long time. Maybe there should have been some kind of official stance in that regard. Maybe not. Maybe they should have elevated the accusations to someone on the chain. Maybe not. Fair to ask because there have been repeated failures in MSU's response to things like this that have come to light. We weren't prepared or set up to handle shit correctly and when the shit hit the fan, we failed. Badly. So you can't tell me it's not news at all. I'm an alum. I'm trying to tune a lot of this out but this was interesting to me, so it's news.

And it's also completely fair, whether you like it or not, to wonder what the fuck is going on in the Athletic department and yes that includes revenue sports. I'm particularly weirded out about basketball. I know Izzo is a good guy but what kind of kids is he recruiting and what is he telling them? Or not telling them? In 10 years there are 3 accusations of gang rape. That's fucked up. I know all of the facts of the Appling/Payne thing, trust me. And there's nothing official on the other 2...but still...can you remove yourself enough to say what the fuck? That's pretty fucked up.? Not that many kids come through the basketball program, unlike football. What, 15 a year, maybe 30% turnover year to year? So 90 kids in 10 years and 3 gang rape accusations?

And stuff due process up your butthole if you're going to tell me the things that females can do to keep themselves safe and avoid these kind of situations. Cuz I have a list of things that males on campus can do to avoid these kind of situations as well and apparently those in our B-ball and football programs haven't done those things very diligently.

Does it tie to Nassar directly? Fuck no. Indirectly? Yeah maybe a little. This is the point even if the media wants to get everyone in a frenzy. Maybe, probably there is and was something there in our leadership and processes that we had set up that let some stuff go unchecked that should have been checked.

And it's not mutually exclusive that this can be true and Dantonio can be super religious and Izzo can be a great guy and Cole Chewins and Miles Bridges can be great kids raised with the right morals. I think it's time alums, even the top 5%ers realize that something is/was off and it needs fixing. Maybe it's not always the media's fault. It's not OUR fault and we can still love our University but hey, some people fucked up and we gotta do better.

Ok long assessment and hey we fucked up and yeah let’s do better.

I’ll say it again. I don’t think we realize what’s happening here. If we don’t have a plan at MSU to publicly fight this, our school will be drastically different in five years. And if we as alumni don’t give a fuck that’s fine. I honestly think it’s too late anyway. We cant stop this. And if Engker tries even some of us yell for him to stop. So yeah, we get what we get. If we’re not going to mount an all out truth assault, let’s let national publications call us a cess pool. If i was anybody else, I’d think you couldn’t walk our campus past high noon. And all of us are just talking to each other, so it doesn’t matter. Five years.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Wags I think you're wrong and too emotionally invested. Right now is a very poor look for the school and you probably would not be wise to take a job teaching there. It may affect enrollment slightly for a year or two. Long term if MSU addresses the problems seriously (and it seems like a mixed bag to me somewhat so far) MSU will be stronger for it. We need to get the right President in place after the settlement and move forward and everything will be fine.

I think Engler was brought in primarily to make sure that the University remains financially solvent through this mess and I guess that's what we're getting. I get it.

LooseGoose wrote:Fuck the mob.

Call it too emotionally invested but no one wrongly attacks me or mine and goes unanswered.

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Fuck the mob.

Call it too emotionally invested but no one wrongly attacks me or mine and goes unanswered.

Yeah, I'm tired about the "too emotionally involved" line.  Fuck that.   Too emotionally involved to call something out if it's wrong?   MSU is a Cess pool of abuse and indifference"?   Honestly, 99% of the professors, the departments, the administrators, the students, the supporting staff have always, and continue to do the right thing. 

Here is what gets me.   Mastercard.  Drops 45 million dollar program because of "articles in the press" and that "they don't want to send students to a campus that isn't safe".  Holy shit.  If I say, know what?  First, MSU can teach and educate those students to go back to Africa and grow better crops, and feed more people, and help the world.   Second, MSU is not a cess pool of danger and rape U as the media is portraying us to be.   If being too emotional thinks that cutting that program because of "articles in the media" is wrong, then I'm too emotional.  We can fucking help feed the world and yet, a program that has nothing to do with any of the bull shit is cut.   this has nothing to do with football or basketball, or victims.  It, however, is a victim because of the hysteria surrounding what indeed is a horrific person and episode in MSU's history.   

Goose, I know I'm only talking to you here, because I don't think too many others have that attitude.  I was always told by my pops to work hard in silence, let your success be your voice.  But what happens to programs that are great programs that will start dropping away from a university whose mission is to educate as many in as far away spots as we can?  Research dollars start drying up, our outreach starts getting thinner and many programs will suffer. Not just one.   I think to many, they believe this is about football and basketball to me.  But, like you, I grew up with MSU just sucking trash, it doens't matter to me if that's what happens to those programs, everything in sports is cyclical.  But I'm not confident MSU comes back as one of the best universities in the world. So, call me too emotional, I don't give a shit.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

DWags wrote:


Yeah, I'm tired about the "too emotionally involved" line.  Fuck that.   Too emotionally involved to call something out if it's wrong?   MSU is a Cess pool of abuse and indifference"?   Honestly, 99% of the professors, the departments, the administrators, the students, the supporting staff have always, and continue to do the right thing. 

Here is what gets me.   Mastercard.  Drops 45 million dollar program because of "articles in the press" and that "they don't want to send students to a campus that isn't safe".  Holy shit.  If I say, know what?  First, MSU can teach and educate those students to go back to Africa and grow better crops, and feed more people, and help the world.   Second, MSU is not a cess pool of danger and rape U as the media is portraying us to be.   If being too emotional thinks that cutting that program because of "articles in the media" is wrong, then I'm too emotional.  We can fucking help feed the world and yet, a program that has nothing to do with any of the bull shit is cut.   this has nothing to do with football or basketball, or victims.  It, however, is a victim because of the hysteria surrounding what indeed is a horrific person and episode in MSU's history.   

Goose, I know I'm only talking to you here, because I don't think too many others have that attitude.  I was always told by my pops to work hard in silence, let your success be your voice.  But what happens to programs that are great programs that will start dropping away from a university whose mission is to educate as many in as far away spots as we can?  Research dollars start drying up, our outreach starts getting thinner and many programs will suffer. Not just one.   I think to many, they believe this is about football and basketball to me.  But, like you, I grew up with MSU just sucking trash, it doens't matter to me if that's what happens to those programs, everything in sports is cyclical.  But I'm not confident MSU comes back as one of the best universities in the world. So, call me too emotional, I don't give a shit.

I always get a kick out of multi-billion dollar corporations pretending to have a moral framework based on headlines.. and "articles in the press".

my suspicion is that they redirected their 45 million dollars to a scheme designed to work in dark, closed-off, smoke-filled rooms to disenfranchise and bankrupt Americans while padding their own pockets.  

DWags wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I always get a kick out of multi-billion dollar corporations pretending to have a moral framework based on headlines.. and "articles in the press".

my suspicion is that they redirected their 45 million dollars to a scheme designed to work in dark, closed-off, smoke-filled rooms to disenfranchise and bankrupt Americans while padding their own pockets.  

Yeah, I suspected that the stories gave them an out.  I have to believe that they're asking "why did we start doing this, cause MSU was kicking some ass with the program. So how do you drop it?   Well, that landed in their lap.   And the board room there got a nice little 500K boost for next chrismas.   Nice.   

Thing is, it's a program that has to be shut down.  And man, it sounded like a great program.  In science, in agriculture, in state relations.  Heaven knows our State department is being gutted and America's reputation is being hurt because of it.  But yeah, here's what they said:

"The Mastercard Foundation is dedicated to providing a safe environment for young people who participate in our programs," an emailed statement from the foundation began. "Due to extensive media reporting about issues involving Michigan State University (MSU), the Foundation has lost confidence in our partnership with the university."

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

DWags wrote:


Yeah, I suspected that the stories gave them an out.  I have to believe that they're asking "why did we start doing this, cause MSU was kicking some ass with the program. So how do you drop it?   Well, that landed in their lap.   And the board room there got a nice little 500K boost for next chrismas.   Nice.   

Thing is, it's a program that has to be shut down.  And man, it sounded like a great program.  In science, in agriculture, in state relations.  Heaven knows our State department is being gutted and America's reputation is being hurt because of it.  But yeah, here's what they said:

"The Mastercard Foundation is dedicated to providing a safe environment for young people who participate in our programs," an emailed statement from the foundation began. "Due to extensive media reporting about issues involving Michigan State University (MSU), the Foundation has lost confidence in our partnership with the university."

wow - they sound like a great bunch of people.. with their finger on the pulse of an altruistic humanity designed to collectively make the world a better place with no fiscal interest of their own involved.

DWags wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
wow - they sound like a great bunch of people.. with their finger on the pulse of an altruistic humanity designed to collectively make the world a better place with no fiscal interest of their own involved.

I guess that's my point Bob.  There are many on this board, who love MSU, (I think) who just advocate shutting up and not fighting back.  I understand that if we do, we have to do it in a manner that doesn't make us look worse, and I wish, we'd spend some money on public relations.  But losing a program like that due "media stories", and you know more than most, that East Lansing in no more or no less dangerous than any city that size. But, the media is dictating what will now happen to MSU.   I'm in favor of firing back.   But doing it in the right way.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

DWags wrote:


I guess that's my point Bob.  There are many on this board, who love MSU, (I think) who just advocate shutting up and not fighting back.  I understand that if we do, we have to do it in a manner that doesn't make us look worse, and I wish, we'd spend some money on public relations.  But losing a program like that due "media stories", and you know more than most, that East Lansing in no more or no less dangerous than any city that size. But, the media is dictating what will now happen to MSU.   I'm in favor of firing back.   But doing it in the right way.

I agree completely.

as I've been saying throughout the last part of this thread, I think MSU will eventually be a better place because of all of this. The media, who I have absolutely no regard for, are like vultures for now. Granted, MSU has given them some things to feed on, but we need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot, too.

I think you and I are on the same page for the most part. And, yes, I wouldn't be sending my daughter to MSU in a few months if I had any concerns regarding her safety. I'm fairly well-connected in a lot of ways and I actually think MSU is more safe than it's ever been right now. Staff, faculty and adminstrators are operating on a higher sense of awareness - justifiably so.

NigelUno wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I agree completely.

as I've been saying throughout the last part of this thread, I think MSU will eventually be a better place because of all of this. The media, who I have absolutely no regard for, are like vultures for now. Granted, MSU has given them some things to feed on, but we need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot, too.

I think you and I are on the same page for the most part. And, yes, I wouldn't be sending my daughter to MSU in a few months if I had any concerns regarding her safety. I'm fairly well-connected in a lot of ways and I actually think MSU is more safe than it's ever been right now. Staff, faculty and adminstrators are operating on a higher sense of awareness - justifiably so.

MSU has a PR problem, more than they have an actual problem.

Amanda Thomashow, the MSU graduate who in 2014 reported sexual abuse by Larry Nassar to the university, said she is considering a run for Michigan State University trustee.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:from the Lansing State Urinal..

Amanda Thomashow, the MSU graduate who in 2014 reported sexual abuse by Larry Nassar to the university, said she is considering a run for Michigan State University trustee.

heck, I think that's pretty awesome.

Woman Who Reported Nassar Considering Run for MSU Trustee

Da Mayor wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:from the Lansing State Urinal..



heck, I think that's pretty awesome.

Woman Who Reported Nassar Considering Run for MSU Trustee

What are her qualifications?

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Da Mayor wrote:

What are her qualifications?

Trustees have qualifications?

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Da Mayor wrote:

What are her qualifications?

Trustees have qualifications?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:from the Lansing State Urinal..

Amanda Thomashow, the MSU graduate who in 2014 reported sexual abuse by Larry Nassar to the university, said she is considering a run for Michigan State University trustee.

heck, I think that's pretty awesome.

Woman Who Reported Nassar Considering Run for MSU Trustee

Da Mayor wrote:What are her qualifications?

NigelUno wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Trustees have qualifications?

Eating ribs.

MSU addict wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:from the Lansing State Urinal..



heck, I think that's pretty awesome.

Woman Who Reported Nassar Considering Run for MSU Trustee

Anyone can consider a run, but essentially the only way to get on the ballot is to be nominated by one of the political parties.

Because of straight ticket voting in Michigan - the only realistic way to get elected is to be nominated by either the Democratic or Republican party.

It is a truly wonderful system as evidenced by our obviously qualified and simply outstanding slate of current trustees.

NigelUno wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Trustees have qualifications?

Eating ribs.

Wally Fairway wrote:

Da Mayor wrote:What are her qualifications?

Perles was fired by the University, then sued MSU, dropped the suit and go the ultimate revenge by being elected to the BOT.

I'm pretty sure that Thomashow is as qualified as a football coach, likely more qualified. But she will struggle to pass the GOB test (good 'ol boy)

Da Mayor wrote:

Wally Fairway wrote:

Perles was fired by the University, then sued MSU, dropped the suit and go the ultimate revenge by being elected to the BOT.

I'm pretty sure that Thomashow is as qualified as a football coach, likely more qualified. But she will struggle to pass the GOB test (good 'ol boy)

I really don't want any feminazis on the board.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

MSU addict wrote:
Anyone can consider a run, but essentially the only way to get on the ballot is to be nominated by one of the political parties.

Because of straight ticket voting in Michigan - the only realistic way to get elected is to be nominated by either the Democratic or Republican party.

It is a truly wonderful system as evidenced by our obviously qualified and simply outstanding slate of current trustees.

Straight ticket voters will only carry you so far. Simply being the incumbent is the easiest way to get elected. If it's an open seat, however, you need to have the first letter of your name higher in the alphabet than your opponent. That, or have a name that most people recognize, even if they don't know why they recognize it. You know, the important things.

Despite being somewhat of a known name, there are Nassar victims whose names are much more well known, or have become more well known since this started, and with the last name of Thomashow, odds are that her opponent will end up listed first on the ballot. Maybe they can get Simone Biles to run?

tGreenWay wrote:

Da Mayor wrote:

I really don't want any feminazis on the board.

Hot take.

Da Mayor wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:

Hot take.

Please don't speak unless I address you.

tGreenWay wrote:

Da Mayor wrote:

Please don't speak unless I address you.

Please stop stealing my material.

Da Mayor wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:

Please stop stealing my material.

You seem delusional, bro.