Re: Introducing Ethereum (Bitcoin but better...or worse...depends on who you ask)

by **InTenSity** Tue 13 Apr 2021 - 19:37

The cost comes in the mining of the currency. The computing power to solve the algorithms increase in costs. The cost of electricity was the initial diving factor. If it cost you $500 in electricity to get one coin, you probably want to sell for more than $500, otherwise you quit. The miners need to make a profit, otherwise they'll stop mining and verifying the block chain, or something like that. I think the theory is that it would collapse if there wasn't anything in it for those unlocking the blocks.
It's a lot more complicated than that and I don't understand it all, but so far it's working. We'll see if the anonymity being taken away from it legitimizes it or not, as in the beginning a lot of it was used for illicit reasons.

by **Motown Spartan** Tue 13 Apr 2021 - 19:38

tGreenWay wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:LOL. No. I don’t get the quantum computing blockchain processes behind it all. All I know is it takes fiat currency to buy crypto and you cash your crypto out in fiat. Just like a baseball card.

If that’s true, I understand crypto and the definition of fiat currency even less than I thought.

It’s partially true.

You can mine crypto. Or you can accept crypto as payment for something else. Or you can pay for goods and services with crypto with someone who accepts it. But, if you want to monetize it beyond that, you need to use fiat currency to buy and and get fiat currency in return if you want to sell it.

by **Motown Spartan** Tue 13 Apr 2021 - 19:41

InTenSity wrote:The cost comes in the mining of the currency. The computing power to solve the algorithms increase in costs. The cost of electricity was the initial diving factor. If it cost you $500 in electricity to get one coin, you probably want to sell for more than $500, otherwise you quit. The miners need to make a profit, otherwise they'll stop mining and verifying the block chain, or something like that. I think the theory is that it would collapse if there wasn't anything in it for those unlocking the blocks.
It's a lot more complicated than that and I don't understand it all, but so far it's working. We'll see if the anonymity being taken away from it legitimizes it or not, as in the beginning a lot of it was used for illicit reasons.

Definitely a big part of the equation. And exchanges like Coinbase make it more accessible to everyday people that don’t know or understand how to transact in crypto without a third party. It also transfers the risk of holding it to them and not the PC hard drive in Grampa’s living room.

by **tGreenWay** Tue 13 Apr 2021 - 19:49

Motown Spartan wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

If that’s true, I understand crypto and the definition of fiat currency even less than I thought.

It’s partially true.

You can mine crypto. Or you can accept crypto as payment for something else. Or you can pay for goods and services with crypto with someone who accepts it. But, if you want to monetize it beyond that, you need to use fiat currency to buy and and get fiat currency in return if you want to sell it.

What mixed me up is how fiat currency is being used. It’s not a term I use, or at least use even occasionally. My understanding of the definition is money that cannot be converted to some other currency or good. That’s when my lack of understanding crypto kicks in, because I thought it was possible to buy crypto with, for example, USD, which is not fiat currency, because it can be exchanged for another currency or something else.

Like I said, maybe my understanding of the definition is what threw me for a loop.

by **Motown Spartan** Tue 13 Apr 2021 - 19:54

tGreenWay wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

It’s partially true.

You can mine crypto. Or you can accept crypto as payment for something else. Or you can pay for goods and services with crypto with someone who accepts it. But, if you want to monetize it beyond that, you need to use fiat currency to buy and and get fiat currency in return if you want to sell it.

What mixed me up is how fiat currency is being used. It’s not a term I use, or at least use even occasionally. My understanding of the definition is money that cannot be converted to some other currency or good. That’s when my lack of understanding crypto kicks in, because I thought it was possible to buy crypto with, for example, USD, which is not fiat currency, because it can be exchanged for another currency or something else.

Like I said, maybe my understanding of the definition is what threw me for a loop.

The US dollar is a fiat currency. Fiat currency is any government currency not backed by a commodity like gold.

by **CORNER BLITZ** Tue 13 Apr 2021 - 20:08

InTenSity wrote:The cost comes in the mining of the currency. The computing power to solve the algorithms increase in costs. The cost of electricity was the initial diving factor. If it cost you $500 in electricity to get one coin, you probably want to sell for more than $500, otherwise you quit. The miners need to make a profit, otherwise they'll stop mining and verifying the block chain, or something like that. I think the theory is that it would collapse if there wasn't anything in it for those unlocking the blocks.
It's a lot more complicated than that and I don't understand it all, but so far it's working. We'll see if the anonymity being taken away from it legitimizes it or not, as in the beginning a lot of it was used for illicit reasons.

In the beginning it was worth nothing. I'd wager more US dollars are used for illicit reasons, both obviously total and as a percentage (unless you count not telling the gov you made gains on crypto to pay taxes then there's probably a shit load of that)

by **CORNER BLITZ** Tue 13 Apr 2021 - 20:09

Also $COIN listing starting at 250 but we little people won't get it there

by **Rocinante** Tue 13 Apr 2021 - 21:01

Motown Spartan wrote:
Rocinante wrote:

So 1. Is because we agree it has value. And 2. Is because it has built in rarity.

So if we stop believing in it, it stops existing. But if some ultra rich guy like Elon buys a bunch of it, that certainly manipulates the perceived value right? So don’t the big holders kind of drive the “value?” And don’t they then become kind of the central bank? And doesn’t that go against all the high minded egalitarian rhetoric behind the idea of Bitcoin?

Yeah sure I guess. Just like anything else has any value that isn’t commoditized. Like stocks or any other currency. Even those backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government. I don’t have a lot of faith in the US government, should I not use their currency?

Look, I get it. You don’t understand it and you missed the boat on it. Bitcoin is the one that people are sour about. It’s unlikely that anyone else is going to become wealthy buying Bitcoin now. If it goes to $1MM per coin, that’s only like 16 times more than it is now. Unlike when it was worth fractions of fractions of pennies. You missed the boat and you’re pissed. But some of the biggest corporations and financial firms and economists are all in agreement that crypto is very viable and is changing and has changed the idea of “currency” as we know it.

That’s not it at all, but thanks for trying to distill me down to “u mad bro”. I’ve been asking the same questions since Bitcoin started. And I still don’t think I’ve gotten good answers. Do I wish I could spend a little money and get a bunch? Sure. Who doesn’t. But the baseball card question is totally legit.

by **Motown Spartan** Tue 13 Apr 2021 - 21:35

Rocinante wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

Yeah sure I guess. Just like anything else has any value that isn’t commoditized. Like stocks or any other currency. Even those backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government. I don’t have a lot of faith in the US government, should I not use their currency?

Look, I get it. You don’t understand it and you missed the boat on it. Bitcoin is the one that people are sour about. It’s unlikely that anyone else is going to become wealthy buying Bitcoin now. If it goes to $1MM per coin, that’s only like 16 times more than it is now. Unlike when it was worth fractions of fractions of pennies. You missed the boat and you’re pissed. But some of the biggest corporations and financial firms and economists are all in agreement that crypto is very viable and is changing and has changed the idea of “currency” as we know it.

That’s not it at all, but thanks for trying to distill me down to “u mad bro”. I’ve been asking the same questions since Bitcoin started. And I still don’t think I’ve gotten good answers. Do I wish I could spend a little money and get a bunch? Sure. Who doesn’t. But the baseball card question is totally legit.

Nobody owes you a good answer. And to boil it down to that is dismissing your inability to understand or accept an explanation. Especially if you want it explained in simple terms. It’s not really easy to explain in simple terms. It’s not a baseball card or beanie baby. Where people find value in it and what is driving the price up are clearly not things that you see value in.

by **Rocinante** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 10:55

That’s called irrational exuberance or a shared delusion, not a sound investment strategy. “You don’t get it” is also a common theme in the online conversation around cryptos. That anger makes me feel more like I’m on to something. The value of crypto is dependent on people believing it has value, which is why people invested in it spend such an inordinate amount of time hyping it and telling others not to sell. It’s a fragile bubble that will whither or break or if holders are lucky, will get subsumed by the traditional banking system. Crypto (with the exception of NFTs mentioned above) is a solution in search of a problem unless your problem is you don’t want people to know what you’re buying. I wasn’t trying to have a DSF, and you’re welcome to ignore me.

by AvgMSUJoe Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 11:01

Any "hack" and it's value basis is gone. You are betting on no one being tech-smarter than they are now. One clever piece of code and the whole thing goes to shit.

With the dollar, at least the entire federal govt has to fold.

by **Motown Spartan** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 11:12

If you don’t like it don’t invest in it. You asked questions and I answered. You didn’t like my answers so you doubled down on your position. I don’t care if you like it or not. I was trying to answer your questions that you clearly weren’t looking for a real answer for.

by **Motown Spartan** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 11:14

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Any "hack" and it's value basis is gone. You are betting on no one being tech-smarter than they are now. One clever piece of code and the whole thing goes to shit.

With the dollar, at least the entire federal govt has to fold.

Part of the security of it is that it’s decentralized. There’s no one hack that can take it down. You can potentially hack my hard drive and gain access to my crypto but you can’t transfer it to another hard drive without authentication which will show that the transaction is invalid.

I’m not saying it’s impossible. Just stating that the way it’s designed is so segregated that the risk of it being hacked is isolated to each individual holder.

by **kingstonlake** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 11:39

I read somewhere (tifwiw) a capable computer to initiate a hack would cost about 5 billion dollars. Supposedly Google has the capability.

by **CORNER BLITZ** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 13:37

[ig]CNp56GcAbhu[/ig]

by **CORNER BLITZ** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 13:38

kingstonlake wrote:I read somewhere (tifwiw) a capable computer to initiate a hack would cost about 5 billion dollars. Supposedly Google has the capability.

I would assume it would cost more than that, plus everyone would know since you have to change everything it would leave a trace

by **Motown Spartan** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 14:09

CORNER BLITZ wrote:[ig]CNp56GcAbhu[/ig]

But there’s no real value there.

by **Nordic** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 14:52

Motown Spartan wrote:
CORNER BLITZ wrote:[ig]CNp56GcAbhu[/ig]

But there’s no real value there.

i bet Roc still has 2-cent pennies

by **Rocinante** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 14:55

I’m going to enjoy revisiting this thread later.

by **CORNER BLITZ** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 15:03

Rocinante wrote:I’m going to enjoy revisiting this thread later.

You could already go back to page 1 and have made a shit load of

by **tGreenWay** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 15:23

Motown Spartan wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:Any "hack" and it's value basis is gone. You are betting on no one being tech-smarter than they are now. One clever piece of code and the whole thing goes to shit.

With the dollar, at least the entire federal govt has to fold.

Part of the security of it is that it’s decentralized. There’s no one hack that can take it down. You can potentially hack my hard drive and gain access to my crypto but you can’t transfer it to another hard drive without authentication which will show that the transaction is invalid.

I’m not saying it’s impossible. Just stating that the way it’s designed is so segregated that the risk of it being hacked is isolated to each individual holder.

Could I get your modem dial up number? Asking for a friend. Introducing Ethereum (Bitcoin but better...or worse...depends on who you ask) - Page 7 3003718628

Introducing Ethereum (Bitcoin but better...or worse...depends on who you ask) - Page 7 3003718628

by **Motown Spartan** Wed 14 Apr 2021 - 15:54

Rocinante wrote:I’m going to enjoy revisiting this thread later.

I’m not so certain you’ll enjoy it. But I’ll bump it for you.

by **Floyd Robertson** Mon 10 May 2021 - 11:33

Doge says never let your CEO go on SNL.

Introducing Ethereum (Bitcoin but better...or worse...depends on who you ask) - Page 7 Saddoge

by **Motown Spartan** Mon 10 May 2021 - 11:40

Floyd Robertson wrote:Doge says never let your CEO go on SNL.

Doge was less than a penny when Musk first mentioned it. It was $.72 when SNL started. It's at $.52 now.

by **Dendrobates** Mon 10 May 2021 - 11:48

Floyd Robertson wrote:Doge says never let your CEO go on SNL.

It’s still a huge hit. I’ve noticed whenever there’s been a goal day for it, it crashes a bit. I admit, we’re in on it. If we lose it all, we lose it all. Just like with any of this stuff, if you put more than you can afford, you’re not doing it right.

by **CORNER BLITZ** Mon 10 May 2021 - 16:48

ETH is doing ok....

by **InTenSity** Mon 10 May 2021 - 16:56

I golfed with a guy on Sunday. He's English and apparently there are fantasy soccer teams. Anyway, at the beginning of the season, or however they do it, everyone pitches in and then they buy bitcoin with it. Winner(s) will get a cut of that, no matter what happens. They started with 950 pounds. Around $1500, I think USD. He showed me the account, something like 4k pounds now, worth $6 or 7k. He said that unfortunately he was out of any money after 3 weeks.

by **kingstonlake** Mon 10 May 2021 - 17:03

CORNER BLITZ wrote:ETH is doing ok....

Fuck ETH and their ridiculous gas fees.

by **tGreenWay** Thu 13 May 2021 - 1:53

Elon Musk announces Tesla won’t accept Bitcoin for purchases of their vehicles. Musk says the reason is because mining for Bitcoin uses too much in fossil fuels, specifically coal. Still supports crypto, but doesn’t expect to accept Bitcoin again until mining transitions to a more environmentally friendly process.

[tw]1392602041025843203?s=21[/tw]

by **kingstonlake** Thu 13 May 2021 - 6:55

Lol. Dude killed 10% of BTC. Playing the game.

by **Motown Spartan** Thu 13 May 2021 - 7:53

He's a market maker and he knows it. He's driving the price down to buy more. In a short time he'll pimp it again driving the price up. Then he'll sell it to fund Tesla for another year or so.

by **kingstonlake** Thu 13 May 2021 - 8:14

Motown Spartan wrote:He's a market maker and he knows it. He's driving the price down to buy more. In a short time he'll pimp it again driving the price up. Then he'll sell it to fund Tesla for another year or so.

I don't know much about the crypto-sphere but it seems shit like that is what's gonna bring regulation to the market.

by **Motown Spartan** Thu 13 May 2021 - 8:27

kingstonlake wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:He's a market maker and he knows it. He's driving the price down to buy more. In a short time he'll pimp it again driving the price up. Then he'll sell it to fund Tesla for another year or so.

I don't know much about the crypto-sphere but it seems shit like that is what's gonna bring regulation to the market.

He did the exact same thing with Tesla stock and got a slap on the wrist. He tweets less now I guess...

by **tGreenWay** Thu 13 May 2021 - 15:24

Motown Spartan wrote:He's a market maker and he knows it. He's driving the price down to buy more. In a short time he'll pimp it again driving the price up. Then he'll sell it to fund Tesla for another year or so.

Thank sweet Jesus he wasn’t born in the US, or we might have another cult leader brainwashing millions.
Although, admittedly, I did love how a guy born in South Africa was tweeting how it was fascist for America to mandate wearing a mask.

by AvgMSUJoe Fri 14 May 2021 - 15:09

Motown Spartan wrote:He's a market maker and he knows it. He's driving the price down to buy more. In a short time he'll pimp it again driving the price up. Then he'll sell it to fund Tesla for another year or so.

Sounds like your describing a "hustle"... I'd do it to if I knew there was ZERO regulation and I could essentially print my own money.

by **Motown Spartan** Fri 14 May 2021 - 15:16

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:He's a market maker and he knows it. He's driving the price down to buy more. In a short time he'll pimp it again driving the price up. Then he'll sell it to fund Tesla for another year or so.

Sounds like your describing a "hustle"... I'd do it to if I knew there was ZERO regulation and I could essentially print my own money.

23% of Tesla's profits in Q1 came from trading Bitcoin. Without that revenue, they would have missed their targets.

by AvgMSUJoe Fri 14 May 2021 - 15:25

Well, how are Dogecoin mined? Do they use too much fossil fuels? Cause with one tweet that motherfucker could raise billions I suspect. (all without implication if the tweet is bullshit)

by **Motown Spartan** Fri 14 May 2021 - 15:30

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Well, how are Dogecoin mined? Do they use too much fossil fuels? Cause with one tweet that motherfucker could raise billions I suspect. (all without implication if the tweet is bullshit)

Yeah, the environmental excuse was bullshit. Ditching fossil fuels is the solution, not ditching Bitcoin.

by **kingstonlake** Fri 14 May 2021 - 16:04

I'm just glad that Musk figured out computers require electricity ~~and found a way to profit from it~~ and wants to stop raping the environment to produce it.

by **kingstonlake** Wed 19 May 2021 - 7:28

China weighs in...

Introducing Ethereum (Bitcoin but better...or worse...depends on who you ask) - Page 7 02651c10

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