This team is soft

NigelUno wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Defense was much more our problem than offense, and I was never impressed by Ward's defense. We definitely had turnover issues, but what else is new? Ward had his share of those as well. I'm not saying he was a worthless player, but I don't think it's reasonable to assert that we even come close to winning that game with Ward in the mix.

You seem to be moving the goal posts a bit.

We would be a better team with him. Period.

We never agreed to fixed-position goal posts.

NigelUno wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

Exactly. And even with Ward gone we out scored Duke on points in the paint. You’d think people would be smart enough to realize that.

Ward would start.  I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that.

Maybe not.

And we outscored Duke in the paint? Huh. I'd guess you're not counting all the Free Throws Carey shot after we fouled him in the paint, right?

Yes they did. I’m sure you’re smart enough to realize that. Maybe not. Or are you moving the goal post a bit?

NigelUno wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Defense was much more our problem than offense, and I was never impressed by Ward's defense. We definitely had turnover issues, but what else is new? Ward had his share of those as well. I'm not saying he was a worthless player, but I don't think it's reasonable to assert that we even come close to winning that game with Ward in the mix.

You seem to be moving the goal posts a bit.

We would be a better team with him. Period.

Yep. Not saying we win that game if we have Ward but that game Tuesday was a big time wake up call that this team is lacking a few things and that we need to make improvements. Before the game I thought this team was better at this point in the year and that we had more upside than last years team. After duke I don’t feel the same way. I think we are seeing a very raw spartan team that is going to have to find its own identity. We can now look back to last year and see what that team and players did so well to win a big game like this.

I think if we had Magic in his prime and Shawn Respert the game would have been closer.

I feel better now.

I think if players had eight years of eligibility we’d be better. The four year rule really hurts this team.

kingstonlake wrote:

NigelUno wrote:



Ward would start.  I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that.

Maybe not.

And we outscored Duke in the paint? Huh. I'd guess you're not counting all the Free Throws Carey shot after we fouled him in the paint, right?

Yes they did. I’m sure you’re smart enough to realize that. Maybe not. Or are you moving the goal post a bit?

Whatever you think you're arguing, you're not doing a very good job of it.

Jesus, if it was the early 70's, we'd still have: Miles Bridges, JJJ, Cash, Ward, Tillman, Aherns, Henry, and the rest of whoever is on this team that wouldn't be cut........... and steven izzo

kingstonlake wrote:I think if players had eight years of eligibility we’d be better. The four year rule really hurts this team.

You might want to move your hot takes to the Ramblings thread.

(Ward had another year of eligibility left...)

DWags wrote:Jesus, if it was the early 70's, we'd still have: Miles Bridges, JJJ, Cash, Ward, Tillman, Aherns, Henry, and the rest of whoever is on this team that wouldn't be cut........... and steven izzo

And Mike Robinson? Team would be undefeated for sure.

Have Langford and hauser been discussed yet? Or what if our back up point guard could dribble and play defense?

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Have Langford and hauser been discussed yet? Or what if our back up point guard could dribble and play defense?

Back-up pg was discussed, we all agree Watts needs to develop fast for a deep run in March.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Have Langford and hauser been discussed yet? Or what if our back up point guard could dribble and play defense?

I think both of those things have been discussed in general. Not sure about whether they have been discussed in this thread.

NigelUno wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

Yes they did. I’m sure you’re smart enough to realize that. Maybe not. Or are you moving the goal post a bit?

Whatever you think you're arguing, you're not doing a very good job of it.

So we outscored Duke in the paint without Ward?

kingstonlake wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Whatever you think you're arguing, you're not doing a very good job of it.

So we outscored Duke in the paint without Ward?

Whatever you think you're arguing, you're not doing a very good job of it.

Does this team beat Duke with Ward? Probably not

Is this team better with Ward? Definitely.

NigelUno wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

So we outscored Duke in the paint without Ward?

Whatever you think you're arguing, you're not doing a very good job of it.

You’re not doing a very good job of answering the question. Maybe you’re to busy moving goal posts.

kingstonlake wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Whatever you think you're arguing, you're not doing a very good job of it.

You’re not doing a very good job of answering the question. Maybe you’re to busy moving goal posts.

The team would be better with Ward.

If your contention is that this is not true, and you have some riveting (one game) data to support your contention...I guess you could share it and expound in great detail why you think this supports your contention.

It might make you look silly, but give it a shot.

Also, one of the most miserable moments of the game was in the second half when they showed the end of the MSU bench and there was Langford with his boot on, Ahren's standing just over his shoulder looking depressed and in a shit load of pain and Hauser just sitting there knowing he can't play this year. That game fucking sucked!

NigelUno wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

You’re not doing a very good job of answering the question. Maybe you’re to busy moving goal posts.

The team would be better with Ward.

If your contention is that this is not true, and you have some riveting (one game) data to support your contention...I guess you could share it and expound in great detail why you think this supports your contention.

It might make you look silly, but give it a shot.

Riveting, Arnold. We’d be better with Ward? We’d also be better with Stewart and Carey. None of the three play for MSU. All of who could have if they chose to.

What is your point again? Something along the lines of we’d be better if people who chose not to play here did? Mind blowing stuff, Arnold.

Lets face it, if we had given Carey a bigger duffle bag with more cash in it than Duke we'd probably all be happier this week and it we'd be like 'Ward who?'.

steveschneider wrote:Lets face it, if we had given Carey a bigger duffle bag with more cash in it than Duke we'd probably all be happier this week and it we'd be like 'Ward who?'.

I thought him and Stewart were here? Did they red shirt?

kingstonlake wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

The team would be better with Ward.

If your contention is that this is not true, and you have some riveting (one game) data to support your contention...I guess you could share it and expound in great detail why you think this supports your contention.

It might make you look silly, but give it a shot.

Riveting, Arnold. We’d be better with Ward? We’d also be better with Stewart and Carey. None of the three play for MSU. All of who could have if they chose to.

What is your point again? Something along the lines of we’d be better if people who chose not to play here did? Mind blowing stuff, Arnold.

Just a simple statement. Seems like the only mind it's blowing is yours.

Sorry I triggered you.

steveschneider wrote:Lets face it, if we had given Carey a bigger duffle bag with more cash in it than Duke we'd probably all be happier this week and it we'd be like 'Ward who?'.

Duke is sneaky. They don't use duffle bags. I think only Kentucky still does.

The last time I remember MSU going into a season with this much hype i feel like we got bounced by UCLA in the first round and it wasn’t a great season.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:The last time I remember MSU going into a season with this much hype i feel like we got bounced by UCLA in the first round and it wasn’t a great season.

I remember that one. I guess as of now I'm projecting this team to the Sweet 16, if I see significant improvements I'll swivel us up to Elite 8.

NigelUno wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

Riveting, Arnold. We’d be better with Ward? We’d also be better with Stewart and Carey. None of the three play for MSU. All of who could have if they chose to.

What is your point again? Something along the lines of we’d be better if people who chose not to play here did? Mind blowing stuff, Arnold.

Just a simple statement. Seems like the only mind it's blowing is yours.

Sorry I triggered you.

Fair enough. Sorry I made fun of your hot take.

NigelUno wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Lets face it, if we had given Carey a bigger duffle bag with more cash in it than Duke we'd probably all be happier this week and it we'd be like 'Ward who?'.

Duke is sneaky. They don't use duffle bags. I think only Kentucky still does.

I believe it. I guess my point is there's a down and upside to running a clean program. The down side is the Vernon Carey's are going to go where the money is, the upside is we get to boast that we do things the right way.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:The last time I remember MSU going into a season with this much hype i feel like we got bounced by UCLA in the first round and it wasn’t a great season.

Hype kind of factored in Langford playing.

NigelUno wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:The last time I remember MSU going into a season with this much hype i feel like we got bounced by UCLA in the first round and it wasn’t a great season.

Hype kind of factored in Langford playing.

I could definitely see a scenario where a guy on the roster would make MSU better.

steveschneider wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Duke is sneaky. They don't use duffle bags. I think only Kentucky still does.

I believe it. I guess my point is there's a down and upside to running a clean program. The down side is the Vernon Carey's are going to go where the money is, the upside is we get to boast that we do things the right way.

Not sure about Carey. There are rumors about Zion though. And Bagley.

There's enough wiggle room with plausible deniability though.

kingstonlake wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Hype kind of factored in Langford playing.

I could definitely see a scenario where a guy on the roster would make MSU better.

You're trying too hard.

Again...sorry I triggered you.

NigelUno wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

I could definitely see a scenario where a guy on the roster would make MSU better.

You're trying too hard.

Again...sorry I triggered you.

Fair enough. I’m sorry if being Nigel is irritating.

kingstonlake wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

You're trying too hard.

Again...sorry I triggered you.  

Fair enough. I’m sorry if being Nigel is irritating.

I don't think being Nigel is irritating. Being around Nigel, on the other hand...

Just want to say it still bothers me that a bunch of white prep school boys man handled our toughest dudes from Grand Rapids, Detroit... wish Izzo had Al Anagoney to put out there to put those pricks in their place.