The 2020 Presidential campaign.

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Post by Robert J Sakimano on Tue 10 Mar 2020 - 21:22

Alright, fellas.. off to bed. Getting up at 4:30 AM to go running.

Peace. Love you guys. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 3493939353
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Post by steveschneider on Tue 10 Mar 2020 - 21:24

Anyone worried about Biden losing his composure, if that’s how you perceive it don’t forget about trump mocking a disable reporter. Talk about losing it and embarrassing that one takes the cake.
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Post by kingstonlake on Tue 10 Mar 2020 - 21:31

Nordic wrote:
Cameron wrote:

I agree, but a VP who can speak won't help Biden on the debate stage with Trump. It's gonna be a bloodbath when he's mano-a-mano with cheeto Hitler.

This is exactly what I'm concerned about with Biden. If a rando with an idiotic gun comment can trigger him, Trump is going to make him explode live in stage.



I get this weird feeling that Biden will emerge as a sympathetic figure. A relic who’s past his prime but smart enough to surround himself with people who are smart and not enablers or afraid of his twitter account. Kinda like they want to take two steps back to eventually take four more forward. This country has been really fucked up in the last 4 years.
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Post by kingstonlake on Tue 10 Mar 2020 - 22:10

LOL Trumps wants payroll tax “holiday” through election. Guess the bankruptcy king has a plan to replace a trillion or so. Idiot.
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Post by NigelUno on Tue 10 Mar 2020 - 22:20

Nordic wrote:
Cameron wrote:

I agree, but a VP who can speak won't help Biden on the debate stage with Trump. It's gonna be a bloodbath when he's mano-a-mano with cheeto Hitler.

This is exactly what I'm concerned about with Biden. If a rando with an idiotic gun comment can trigger him, Trump is going to make him explode live in stage.



Would be interesting if he told Trump he was full of shit.
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Post by Cameron on Tue 10 Mar 2020 - 22:43

kingstonlake wrote:If you ever needed proof that the 2016 dem primary and general election was a vote against Hillary and not for Sanders or Trump, it’s playing out before your eyes tonight.

I think that's the main takeaway. Actually makes me feel a little better about Biden's chances. He's our guy now, time to ride. Just wish there would have been a one on one debate between Bernie and Biden before this round of primaries, I think things could have gone differently if there would have been.
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Post by Nordic on Tue 10 Mar 2020 - 22:54

steveschneider wrote:Anyone worried about Biden losing his composure, if that’s how you perceive it don’t forget about trump mocking a disable reporter. Talk about losing it and embarrassing that one takes the cake.

That is Trump's game. He wins a battle if Biden loses his shit
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Post by Nordic on Tue 10 Mar 2020 - 23:02

Cameron wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:If you ever needed proof that the 2016 dem primary and general election was a vote against Hillary and not for Sanders or Trump, it’s playing out before your eyes tonight.

I think that's the main takeaway. Actually makes me feel a little better about Biden's chances. He's our guy now, time to ride. Just wish there would have been a one on one debate between Bernie and Biden before this round of primaries, I think things could have gone differently if there would have been.

I'm starting to come around on this.

Winning Mi (a key state for the dems) by a substantial margin, tells me a debate was not needed. He still would of taken Mi, but probably would not of increased his chances in the main event.
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Post by Cameron on Tue 10 Mar 2020 - 23:12

I have a moronic idea that's just crazy enough to work. Biden-Sanders ticket. That would maximize the Sanders voter turnout in the general. But it's definitely not going to happen, and as I said, it would be a moronic idea to have a 77 year old choose a 78 year old to be his running mate. Maybe to wingman him in the nursing home, but not to share a ticket. Also, I doubt Bernie would ever do it.

But I think it would get most of Bernie's supporters to turn out.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 0:01

Gotta get the Bernie Bros online. Minorities are gonna turn up for Uncle Joe. Moderates are gonna turn up for Uncle Joe. I think the fatigue theory is true. Trumpers don't give a fuck what he does. They will back him. I think the same is gonna be true of Uncle Joe for the minorities and the moderates. There are very few voters out there who are going to be on the fence between Biden and Trump, regardless of debate. This is my opinion and not backed up by science.
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Post by Nordic on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 0:40

As long as Biden doesn't step on his dick on national TV, I would agree with this.
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Post by Floyd Robertson on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 12:02

[tw]1237769351740174336[/tw]

Bowing out or doubling-down? Going to tap Hillary as his running mate?
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Post by Cameron on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 12:12

Gotta imagine he's calling it.
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Post by kingstonlake on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 12:29

If he calls it off, respect. Gotta give it up to the guy for thinking outside the box. If if he wasn’t successful in his bid, his platform has helped expand the political minds of the mainstream.
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Post by NigelUno on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 12:38

Nordic wrote:As long as Biden doesn't step on his dick on national TV, I would agree with this.

Trump does it all the time. It won't matter if either do it.
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Post by kingstonlake on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 12:43

Bernie Staying in the race. Guess he wants to see one more massacre next week.
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Post by kingstonlake on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 12:45

I wonder if it’s solely to use the Arizona debate as a handing over the torch and selling unity.
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Post by NigelUno on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 13:11

Spending a lot of time talking about "Joe"...

Who was trying to convince me that Bernie was on board with party unity?

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Post by Floyd Robertson on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 13:51

Sure seems like he's paving the way to hand over the reigns with the part of him comments. IOW, Joe, pick up the mantle here and I'll get the Bros to fall in line.

[tw]1237797350585884673[/tw]
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Post by steveschneider on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 14:31

Floyd Robertson wrote:Sure seems like he's paving the way to hand over the reigns with the part of him comments. IOW, Joe, pick up the mantle here and I'll get the Bros to fall in line.

[tw]1237797350585884673[/tw]

Bernie is a class act and I expect him to do what's right. I really hope the younger supporters understand how important this election is and to advance Bernie's ideas the best bet is to defeat Trump.
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Post by Cameron on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 14:45

I was really expecting him to drop out. Now I'm kind of thinking he's going to go scorched motherfucking earth in the next debate. Bernie knows this is his last dance, I can't say I blame him for wanting to go down swinging and get at least one mano-a-mano debate with Biden. Probably not a great sign for the unity movement, though.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 15:13

Cameron wrote:I was really expecting him to drop out. Now I'm kind of thinking he's going to go scorched motherfucking earth in the next debate. Bernie knows this is his last dance, I can't say I blame him for wanting to go down swinging and get at least one mano-a-mano debate with Biden. Probably not a great sign for the unity movement, though.

I think Bernie knows that the biggest goal for the Dems is to get rid of Trump. I believe he's said as much several times. So I can't imagine that he goes scorched earth. Party unity/shmunity, who gives a fuck? It's about anti-Trump unity, and with that, I have to think that Bernie will join and beg his followers to join. He knows that had just a few more of his voters gone for Hillary (whether those that didn't vote or especially those that flipped to Trump), that Trump would never have been president. No way he lets that happen again, to whatever extent he can help it.
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Post by Rocinante on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 15:42

No. He knows it’s over. He wants to make sure the progressive agenda doesn’t die when he leaves the race.
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Post by kingstonlake on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 16:37

NigelUno wrote:Spending a lot of time talking about "Joe"...

Who was trying to convince me that Bernie was on board with party unity?


He’s still in the race.
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Post by Rocinante on Wed 11 Mar 2020 - 16:40

His name is Joe, Nigel. Joe Biden.
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Post by steveschneider on Thu 12 Mar 2020 - 21:59

https://twitter.com/politicususa/status/1238157624874618880?s=21

Biden fucking crushed it today. This speech demonstrates the type of leadership our country needs.
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 0:36

Pete is hosting Kimmel tonight. Give me this guy every day over Orange Douche.

Honestly ability to host Kimmel is way up there in terms of priority.
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Post by Rocinante on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 2:24

Trump could pull off hosting Kimmel.
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Post by Cameron on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 10:59

Politico: A 'Never Biden' movement vows not to vote for Joe

“At the end of the day, it’s Biden or Trump,” said Boyd Brown, a former South Carolina lawmaker and former Democratic National Committee member. “They’ll turn out.”

“The rationale for us is that our votes need to be earned and that we’ve been taken for granted, and the party never moves to us,” said Alyson Metzger, a 54-year-old writer and progressive activist in New York City who supports Sanders. “If they install Joe Biden, I will not vote for Biden. … This is not democratic what’s happening in the Democratic primary.”

Democrats are gonna fuck this up. They think they're owed those votes. They damn sure aren't. I see the logic in the notion that 4 more years of Trump, then another chance to nominate a real progressive might be preferable to 8 years of Biden/centrist corporatism.

The DNC seems to think it's enough to just not be Trump. I tend to think that if all you give people is something to vote against, they'll just stay home. You have to give them something worth voting for. Just turning the clock back to 2016 and pretending the last 4 years didn't happen isn't gonna cut it.
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Post by steveschneider on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 11:08

Cameron wrote:Politico: A 'Never Biden' movement vows not to vote for Joe

“At the end of the day, it’s Biden or Trump,” said Boyd Brown, a former South Carolina lawmaker and former Democratic National Committee member. “They’ll turn out.”

“The rationale for us is that our votes need to be earned and that we’ve been taken for granted, and the party never moves to us,” said Alyson Metzger, a 54-year-old writer and progressive activist in New York City who supports Sanders. “If they install Joe Biden, I will not vote for Biden. … This is not democratic what’s happening in the Democratic primary.”

Democrats are gonna fuck this up. They think they're owed those votes. They damn sure aren't. I see the logic in the notion that 4 more years of Trump, then another chance to nominate a real progressive might be preferable to 8 years of Biden/centrist corporatism.

The DNC seems to think it's enough to just not be Trump. I tend to think that if all you give people is something to vote against, they'll just stay home. You have to give them something worth voting for. Just turning the clock back to 2016 and pretending the last 4 years didn't happen isn't gonna cut it.

Meh...so the party is supposed to bend over backwards for people that aren't going to vote for anyone unless it's their hand picked candidates?

The numbers of turnout are way up and it's the Obama coalition. As I noted in that stat that gets you worked up it was shown there was a good chunk of his supporters that wouldn't vote for the dem candidate unless it was Sanders. Based on 2016 numbers we can expect a good chunk of these folks to vote for Trump or some whacko third party candidate.
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Post by Cameron on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 11:51

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:Politico: A 'Never Biden' movement vows not to vote for Joe





Democrats are gonna fuck this up. They think they're owed those votes. They damn sure aren't. I see the logic in the notion that 4 more years of Trump, then another chance to nominate a real progressive might be preferable to 8 years of Biden/centrist corporatism.

The DNC seems to think it's enough to just not be Trump. I tend to think that if all you give people is something to vote against, they'll just stay home. You have to give them something worth voting for. Just turning the clock back to 2016 and pretending the last 4 years didn't happen isn't gonna cut it.

Meh...so the party is supposed to bend over backwards for people that aren't going to vote for anyone unless it's their hand picked candidates?

The numbers of turnout are way up and it's the Obama coalition. As I noted in that stat that gets you worked up it was shown there was a good chunk of his supporters that wouldn't vote for the dem candidate unless it was Sanders. Based on 2016 numbers we can expect a good chunk of these folks to vote for Trump or some whacko third party candidate.

It's not the Obama coalition. It's many of those voters, but Obama did quite well with younger voters, and Bernie has destroyed Biden in that demographic. Ditto latinos.

Bend over backwards? No. Offer something other than a return to the status quo that was leaving so many people behind, and that ultimately made voting for Donald Trump seem like a viable option to many of those former Obama voters? Might be a good idea.
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Post by kingstonlake on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 12:00

Man it’s almost like the party is to diversified to please everyone.....
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Post by steveschneider on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 12:01

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Meh...so the party is supposed to bend over backwards for people that aren't going to vote for anyone unless it's their hand picked candidates?

The numbers of turnout are way up and it's the Obama coalition. As I noted in that stat that gets you worked up it was shown there was a good chunk of his supporters that wouldn't vote for the dem candidate unless it was Sanders. Based on 2016 numbers we can expect a good chunk of these folks to vote for Trump or some whacko third party candidate.

It's not the Obama coalition. It's many of those voters, but Obama did quite well with younger voters, and Bernie has destroyed Biden in that demographic. Ditto latinos.

Bend over backwards? No. Offer something other than a return to the status quo that was leaving so many people behind, and that ultimately made voting for Donald Trump seem like a viable option to many of those former Obama voters? Might be a good idea.

In 2016 Hillary bent on minimum, wage, international trade and a few other things from Sanders platform. Didn't make a difference they stayed home and we got Trump. It can't be repeated enough, trying to campaign to younger voters has proven itself over and over again to be a loser. Bernie proved it again in 2020.

Bottom line Biden has a much more progressive platform Hillary and it won't make a difference to a lot of these kids. They are just political suicide bombers hell bent on taking down the dems unless they get their candidate.
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Post by steveschneider on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 12:09

kingstonlake wrote:Man it’s almost like the party is to diversified to please everyone.....

The ones that actually show up and vote are Obama Clinton Democrats which is pretty left center. If the Bernie Sanders wing wants real change they need to register and show up to vote. It's that simple but yet so hard.
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Post by Cameron on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 12:24

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

It's not the Obama coalition. It's many of those voters, but Obama did quite well with younger voters, and Bernie has destroyed Biden in that demographic. Ditto latinos.

Bend over backwards? No. Offer something other than a return to the status quo that was leaving so many people behind, and that ultimately made voting for Donald Trump seem like a viable option to many of those former Obama voters? Might be a good idea.

In 2016 Hillary bent on minimum, wage, international trade and a few other things from Sanders platform. Didn't make a difference they stayed home and we got Trump. It can't be repeated enough, trying to campaign to younger voters has proven itself over and over again to be a loser. Bernie proved it again in 2020.

Bottom line Biden has a much more progressive platform Hillary and it won't make a difference to a lot of these kids. They are just political suicide bombers hell bent on taking down the dems unless they get their candidate.

If you wanna talk Hillary, find a Trump voter, they love that shit. I'm not interested.

What has Joe offered? Has he come around on Medicare for All? $15 minimum wage? Student loan forgiveness? Has he repudiated his own past support for free trade deals like NAFTA? If he's done any of those things, I missed it.
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Post by steveschneider on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 12:26

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

In 2016 Hillary bent on minimum, wage, international trade and a few other things from Sanders platform. Didn't make a difference they stayed home and we got Trump. It can't be repeated enough, trying to campaign to younger voters has proven itself over and over again to be a loser. Bernie proved it again in 2020.

Bottom line Biden has a much more progressive platform Hillary and it won't make a difference to a lot of these kids. They are just political suicide bombers hell bent on taking down the dems unless they get their candidate.

If you wanna talk Hillary, find a Trump voter, they love that shit. I'm not interested.

What has Joe offered? Has he come around on Medicare for All? $15 minimum wage? Student loan forgiveness? Has he repudiated his own past support for free trade deals like NAFTA? If he's done any of those things, I missed it.

His health care plan would be an improvement on what we have right now. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 2599972566
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Post by Cameron on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 12:32

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

If you wanna talk Hillary, find a Trump voter, they love that shit. I'm not interested.

What has Joe offered? Has he come around on Medicare for All? $15 minimum wage? Student loan forgiveness? Has he repudiated his own past support for free trade deals like NAFTA? If he's done any of those things, I missed it.

His health care plan would be an improvement on what we have right now. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 2599972566

Meh. Near as I can tell, his health care plan is basically Obamacare 2: Electric Boogaloo. It has been rightly pointed out that the general Obamacare framework was basically a conservative idea, I believe hatched from the heritage foundation. It's basically a center-right healthcare policy. But the Republicans have kicked the shit out of Democrats for so long that now we're trying to cling to the last shreds of Obamacare like it's the left wing ideal. Better than what Trump would do? Sure. But that's damning with faint praise if I've ever heard it.
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Post by steveschneider on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 13:11

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

His health care plan would be an improvement on what we have right now. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 2599972566

Meh. Near as I can tell, his health care plan is basically Obamacare 2: Electric Boogaloo. It has been rightly pointed out that the general Obamacare framework was basically a conservative idea, I believe hatched from the heritage foundation. It's basically a center-right healthcare policy. But the Republicans have kicked the shit out of Democrats for so long that now we're trying to cling to the last shreds of Obamacare like it's the left wing ideal. Better than what Trump would do? Sure. But that's damning with faint praise if I've ever heard it.

Hey, it's a free country if you aren't feeling it you can always vote for Jill Stein or write in Mickey Mouse. Stats showed last time Bernie supporters voted for Trump and we have indicators a good chunk of them won't vote for the dem candidate this go around either. And the medicare for all issue was debated in the primaries and it turned out to be a losing issue. I wish we could have medicare for all but I'm willing to advance what Biden has because I think it will be beneficial to the country. If we want medicare for all I firmly believe it will require more young people to get out there and vote for it in and thus far they've failed.
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Post by Cameron on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 13:33

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Meh. Near as I can tell, his health care plan is basically Obamacare 2: Electric Boogaloo. It has been rightly pointed out that the general Obamacare framework was basically a conservative idea, I believe hatched from the heritage foundation. It's basically a center-right healthcare policy. But the Republicans have kicked the shit out of Democrats for so long that now we're trying to cling to the last shreds of Obamacare like it's the left wing ideal. Better than what Trump would do? Sure. But that's damning with faint praise if I've ever heard it.

Hey, it's a free country if you aren't feeling it you can always vote for Jill Stein or write in Mickey Mouse. Stats showed last time Bernie supporters voted for Trump and we have indicators a good chunk of them won't vote for the dem candidate this go around either. And the medicare for all issue was debated in the primaries and it turned out to be a losing issue. I wish we could have medicare for all but I'm willing to advance what Biden has because I think it will be beneficial to the country. If we want medicare for all I firmly believe it will require more young people to get out there and vote for it in and thus far they've failed.

False. It came up in the debates, yes. But it's not a losing issue. Polls show broad support for universal coverage.

https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/
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The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 Empty Re: The 2020 Presidential campaign.

Post by steveschneider on Fri 13 Mar 2020 - 13:38

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Hey, it's a free country if you aren't feeling it you can always vote for Jill Stein or write in Mickey Mouse. Stats showed last time Bernie supporters voted for Trump and we have indicators a good chunk of them won't vote for the dem candidate this go around either. And the medicare for all issue was debated in the primaries and it turned out to be a losing issue. I wish we could have medicare for all but I'm willing to advance what Biden has because I think it will be beneficial to the country. If we want medicare for all I firmly believe it will require more young people to get out there and vote for it in and thus far they've failed.

False. It came up in the debates, yes. But it's not a losing issue. Polls show broad support for universal coverage.

https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/

I believe the majority of the country wants medicare for all however the people that are actually turning out and voting want something else.
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The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 13 Empty Re: The 2020 Presidential campaign.

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