Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates

Trapper Gus wrote:

Zurn wrote:

Post Biden, the average cost of a new car is $48,000.

Please bump the thread when the average cost of a new EV is $16,000

Somehow if that happens, I suspect that no bumping will be necessary.

Somehow if that happens???? You said it would. You said EVs would cost 1/3 that of ICEs.

Zurn wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Somehow if that happens, I suspect that no bumping will be necessary.

Somehow if that happens???? You said it would. You said EVs would cost 1/3 that of ICEs.

Very sure that $9k is less than 1/3 of $48k, maybe you can explain how that isn't true.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Zurn wrote:

Somehow if that happens???? You said it would. You said EVs would cost 1/3 that of ICEs.

Very sure that $9k is less than 1/3 of $48k, maybe you can explain how that isn't true.

Bump when my local Chevy dealer has a $9,000 sitting in the showroom next to a $48,000 Blazer.

Zurn wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Very sure that $9k is less than 1/3 of $48k, maybe you can explain how that isn't true.

Bump when my local Chevy dealer has a $9,000 sitting in the showroom next to a $48,000 Blazer.

If GM doesn't get their act together your local dealer may not be in business.

Tesla laying off over 10% of their workforce.

Tesla is laying off workers because their EV’s aren’t selling as many as projected.

But Tesla is no longer the power it was. Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Subaru, VW, Ford and GM are all offering EV’s. They’re selling to EV buyers who no longer see Tesla as their only choice.

Tesla has been around long enough that a used/ pre-owned supply now exists. Folks buying another brand trade in their Teslas and all the leases are coming due.

EV’s don’t make sense for everyone because of charging locations, range and entry price.

Then there are the states like Louisiana , Texas and Oklahoma who are putting in high annual licensing fees and Wyoming is proposing an outright ban. All to protect the fossil fuel industry.

Still think Toyota and to a lesser extent Honda has read the market seeing transition to hybrid much more rapid than total EV.

Too bad folks fighting battery plants haven’t figured out hybrids use batteries too.

TravelinMan wrote:Tesla laying off over 10% of their workforce.

isn't that the dude that owns Twitter now? From what I heard, he bought it to keep people from making fun of him?

and because daddie didn't pay enough attention to him, he now fancies himself a rocket builder but then his little rockets blow up?

do electric bikes make, like, a humming sound?

I think someone on an electric bike passed me the other day when I was walking down the Northern Tier Trail in East Lansing. It was humming, so I assumed it had some sort of electronic component to it.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:do electric bikes make, like, a humming sound?

I think someone on an electric bike passed me the other day when I was walking down the Northern Tier Trail in East Lansing. It was humming, so I assumed it had some sort of electronic component to it.

Mine doesn't, but maybe some do?

TravelinMan wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:do electric bikes make, like, a humming sound?

I think someone on an electric bike passed me the other day when I was walking down the Northern Tier Trail in East Lansing. It was humming, so I assumed it had some sort of electronic component to it.

Mine doesn't, but maybe some do?  

I should ask the Twitter guy.. he seems to know everything.

TravelinMan wrote:Tesla laying off over 10% of their workforce.  

Energy giant BP has also cut over a tenth of the workforce in its EV charging business after a bet on rapid growth in commercial EV fleets didn't pay off, Reuters reported on Monday, underscoring the broader impact of slowing EV demand.

Car bean counters are really bad at predicting their markets.  In this case somehow, they thought the demand for EV's priced at luxury vehicle price levels would increase forever.  GM, for "reasons", shut down their highest sales volume EV which was priced in the 25k to 35k price range.  Maybe smart from a technology POV, "newer battery pack" in replacement vehicle, which isn't for sale yet, but drops EV sales and all the punters on the markets go "Oh!".

EV vehicle fleet percentage is still increasing, FWIW.

TravelinMan wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:do electric bikes make, like, a humming sound?

I think someone on an electric bike passed me the other day when I was walking down the Northern Tier Trail in East Lansing. It was humming, so I assumed it had some sort of electronic component to it.

Mine doesn't, but maybe some do?

Probably a good thing.

EV's "hum" due to the inverters vibrating as they "chop" the DC voltage into AC voltage. In cars these voltages are either around 400V or 800V and are carried in cables which are designed for this. E-bikes use lower voltages (and currents), so their switchers, if they have any, are at much lower power.

If your interested you can go on Hertz website and buy a 22’ Tesla Model 3 for 24K

kingstonlake wrote:If your interested you can go on Hertz website and buy a 22’ Tesla Model 3 for 24K

That must be the extended wheel base edition?

TravelinMan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:If your interested you can go on Hertz website and buy a 22’ Tesla Model 3 for 24K

That must be the extended wheel base edition?  

Sounds like a pretty good deal if you are looking for an EV.

While this is just one fleet buy and then sale, it would be interesting to know how fleet sales have been for Tesla recently and in years past.  Before Tesla didn't have a used Tesla market to contend with.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

That must be the extended wheel base edition?  

Sounds like a pretty good deal if you are looking for an EV.

While this is just one fleet buy and then sale, it would be interesting to know how fleet sales have been for Tesla recently and in years past.  Before Tesla didn't have a used Tesla market to contend with.

Hertz is selling all their Teslas….

They took a bath on that venture.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/03/01/byd-dolphin-mini-rolling-in-mexico-cheapest-electric-car-by-far/

$23k for over 200 miles of range.

Trapper Gus wrote:https://cleantechnica.com/2024/03/01/byd-dolphin-mini-rolling-in-mexico-cheapest-electric-car-by-far/

$23k for over 200 miles of range.

A brand new off the showroom floor complete with warranty Honda Civic will provide double that range for the same price.

Also, I hate it when people miss great punctuation jokes.  You guys all suck.

Edit: OK, a couple people got it. Thank you.

Minimum is $23 995, maximum is $32k, so no, comparing a low end Civic with the high end EV isn't apples to apples...and doesn't account for the increase to insurance due to global warming.

Trapper Gus wrote:Minimum is $23 995, maximum is $32k, so no, comparing a low end Civic with the high end EV isn't apples to apples...and doesn't account for the increase to insurance due to global warming.

Increase in insurance due to global warming? Can you expand on that one? I’ve never heard of such a thing.

and if you think that Chinese POS is nicer than a base Honda,, you’re insane.

Looks like people don’t want to buy Chinese EVs, either.

https://jalopnik.com/unsold-chinese-evs-are-piling-up-at-ports-1851415290

TravelinMan wrote:Looks like people don’t want to buy Chinese EVs, either.

https://jalopnik.com/unsold-chinese-evs-are-piling-up-at-ports-1851415290

Basic problem is no trucks to ship them with and no dealers to ship them to, so a very poor business plan.  Hard to tell if people want them when they cannot buy them.

Come on TM, I think you are smart enough to know you are posting transient malarky right now.

EV's and now China's lead in development, which Joe Biden et al are working to provide the IP for the US companies to overcome, are all part of a massive disruption to first the automobile industry and then the global economy.  All sorts of snafus will show up as we go along, none of which are going to stop the train which has already left the station.

Not many people are seeing, yet, how huge this disruption is going to be, but think about it.  Gas stations are obsolete, so are oil refineries, so is the global oil transportation industry, and the oil drillers.  I would have to look it up to be sure however that is a significant percentage of GDP.

If you really want to worry, then add in the global warming factor.  Insurance is going up on almost everything because the weather is becoming more destructive.  It may make the disruptions in the energy sector look like small potatoes.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/climate-desk-fact-checks-aaron-sorkins-climate-science-newsroom/

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:Looks like people don’t want to buy Chinese EVs, either.

https://jalopnik.com/unsold-chinese-evs-are-piling-up-at-ports-1851415290

Basic problem is no trucks to ship them with and no dealers to ship them to, so a very poor business plan.  Hard to tell if people want them when they cannot buy them.

Come on TM, I think you are smart enough to know you are posting transient malarky right now.

EV's and now China's lead in development, which Joe Biden et al are working to provide the IP for the US companies to overcome, are all part of a massive disruption to first the automobile industry and then the global economy.  All sorts of snafus will show up as we go along, none of which are going to stop the train which has already left the station.

Not many people are seeing, yet, how huge this disruption is going to be, but think about it.  Gas stations are obsolete, so are oil refineries, so is the global oil transportation industry, and the oil drillers.  I would have to look it up to be sure however that is a significant percentage of GDP.

If you really want to worry, then add in the global warming factor.  Insurance is going up on almost everything because the weather is becoming more destructive.  It may make the disruptions in the energy sector look like small potatoes.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/climate-desk-fact-checks-aaron-sorkins-climate-science-newsroom/

Yeah, and Dippin' Dots are the future of ice cream, too. Bump this in 6 years and let's see how things are.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Basic problem is no trucks to ship them with and no dealers to ship them to, so a very poor business plan.  Hard to tell if people want them when they cannot buy them.

Come on TM, I think you are smart enough to know you are posting transient malarky right now.

EV's and now China's lead in development, which Joe Biden et al are working to provide the IP for the US companies to overcome, are all part of a massive disruption to first the automobile industry and then the global economy.  All sorts of snafus will show up as we go along, none of which are going to stop the train which has already left the station.

Not many people are seeing, yet, how huge this disruption is going to be, but think about it.  Gas stations are obsolete, so are oil refineries, so is the global oil transportation industry, and the oil drillers.  I would have to look it up to be sure however that is a significant percentage of GDP.

If you really want to worry, then add in the global warming factor.  Insurance is going up on almost everything because the weather is becoming more destructive.  It may make the disruptions in the energy sector look like small potatoes.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/climate-desk-fact-checks-aaron-sorkins-climate-science-newsroom/

Yeah, and Dippin' Dots are the future of ice cream, too. Bump this in 6 years and let's see how things are.

We, you and I, have been following this for years, long enough for you to not to put down markers that will easily be passed.

https://thedriven.io/2024/04/14/the-anti-ev-brigade-are-pushing-plug-in-hybrids-but-electric-is-still-the-future/

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Yeah, and Dippin' Dots are the future of ice cream, too. Bump this in 6 years and let's see how things are.

We, you and I, have been following this for years, long enough for you to not to put down markers that will easily be passed.

https://thedriven.io/2024/04/14/the-anti-ev-brigade-are-pushing-plug-in-hybrids-but-electric-is-still-the-future/

We'll see. Right now, EVs are great for Point A to Point A travel, where you can charge them at home overnight. With housing ever further out of reach for the average American, and public recharging infrastructure being a joke, there are some significant hurdles to clear for EVs to even be viable for 50% of the population, let alone the numbers the government would like to see. The next 5-6 years will be a critical time for EV fanbois.

could I sell my Bitcoins and by an EV?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:could I sell my Bitcoins and by an EV?

Bitcoin is bad for the environment, Bob. Why do you hate trees and clean water, Bob?

TravelinMan wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:could I sell my Bitcoins and by an EV?

Bitcoin is bad for the environment, Bob. Why do you hate trees and clean water, Bob?

I truly have no idea what a "Bitcoin" is.

I don't know much about anything, and the things I do know a lot about are few. Very few. And of little interest to anyone here.

which is kinda cool.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Bitcoin is bad for the environment, Bob. Why do you hate trees and clean water, Bob?

I truly have no idea what a "Bitcoin" is.

I don't know much about anything, and the things I do know a lot about are few. Very few. And of little interest to anyone here.

which is kinda cool.

1. Not working hard
2. Mountain bikes
3. ????

Since when is it hard to find an EV for sale?

I just upgraded my EV rental to an ICE vehicle. The charging infrastructure isn’t there. It’s very hit and miss. Most stations have multiple out of service notices. Tesla chargers are routinely not available. You have to “book” a time. Yeah, I’ll pass.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:



Mine doesn't, but maybe some do?

Probably a good thing.

EV's "hum" due to the inverters vibrating as they "chop" the DC voltage into AC voltage. In cars these voltages are either around 400V or 800V and are carried in cables which are designed for this. E-bikes use lower voltages (and currents), so their switchers, if they have any, are at much lower power.

My bike (Voltbike) is running at 48 volts. I can hear some humming but not very much

TravelinMan wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: I truly have no idea what a "Bitcoin" is.

I don't know much about anything, and the things I do know a lot about are few. Very few. And of little interest to anyone here.

which is kinda cool.

1. Not working hard
2. Mountain bikes
3. ????

Running
Springsteen

kingstonlake wrote:Since when is it hard to find an EV for sale?

I just upgraded my EV rental to an ICE vehicle. The charging infrastructure isn’t there. It’s very hit and miss. Most stations have multiple out of service notices. Tesla chargers are routinely not available. You have to “book” a time. Yeah, I’ll pass.

Charging infrastructure is probably the "leg" of EV's that is the least developed, however the big 3 are all investing in improving it as are a least 2 or 3 players with cash.  Also the company's are hearing the issues about out of order chargers loud and clear and are taking corrective actions.

Trapper Gus wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:Since when is it hard to find an EV for sale?

I just upgraded my EV rental to an ICE vehicle. The charging infrastructure isn’t there. It’s very hit and miss. Most stations have multiple out of service notices. Tesla chargers are routinely not available. You have to “book” a time. Yeah, I’ll pass.

Charging infrastructure is probably the "leg" of EV's that is the least developed, however the big 3 are all investing in improving it as are a least 2 or 3 players with cash.  Also the company's are hearing the issues about out of order chargers loud and clear and are taking corrective actions.

Yep batteries are being worked on. Charging is being worked on. Price is being worked on. Range is being worked on. But EVs are great and everyone should drive one.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Charging infrastructure is probably the "leg" of EV's that is the least developed, however the big 3 are all investing in improving it as are a least 2 or 3 players with cash.  Also the company's are hearing the issues about out of order chargers loud and clear and are taking corrective actions.

Yep batteries are being worked on.  Charging is being worked on.  Price is being worked on.  Range is being worked on.  But EVs are great and everyone should drive one.  

Everyone will be driving one, as the techology is better than ICE tech, how long it will take is really the only question.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Yep batteries are being worked on.  Charging is being worked on.  Price is being worked on.  Range is being worked on.  But EVs are great and everyone should drive one.  

Everyone will be driving one, as the techology is better than ICE tech, how long it will take is really the only question.

The technology is NOT better. It may someday be so, but it most certainly isn’t today.

TravelinMan wrote:

Yep batteries are being worked on. Charging is being worked on. Price is being worked on. Range is being worked on. But EVs are great and everyone should drive one.

Over on the main board Bob said his wife has a new ride. Wonder if it's a union made EV?

Zurn wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Yep batteries are being worked on.  Charging is being worked on.  Price is being worked on.  Range is being worked on.  But EVs are great and everyone should drive one.  

Over on the main board Bob said his wife has a new ride.   Wonder if it's a union made EV?

it is not.

you know why?

because in our house, I respect a woman's right to make her own decisions. I know that's weird for you.

tell your friends at church I said "hello".

Zurn wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Yep batteries are being worked on. Charging is being worked on. Price is being worked on. Range is being worked on. But EVs are great and everyone should drive one.

Over on the main board Bob said his wife has a new ride. Wonder if it's a union made EV?

As long as it jams Springsteen on the entertainment system, Bob doesn't care.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Everyone will be driving one, as the techology is better than ICE tech, how long it will take is really the only question.

The technology is NOT better. It may someday be so, but it most certainly isn’t today.

Oh no, the tech is better, always has been. ICE's which waste 70% plus of the energy input has always been a poor technology.