Re: Israel war

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-05, 08:16

Trapper Gus wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Oh you mean there’s a slight dip in population during war time? I bet the year still ends with population growth for Palestine. Also, when a bunch of evil doers invaded a music festival, rapes women, kills innocent people, takes hostages, kills babies it warranted a response. It’s sad life is lost no question about it. The Palestinians need better leadership and they need to work with Israel to end the reign of terror that hamas has had over the region. I don’t think they want that they refuse Israel’s right to exist.

Oh, the leadership of Israel who want no part of a two-state solution is better, somehow?

you're not trying to have a logical, fact-based conversation with those sorts, are you?

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 08:35

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh, the leadership of Israel who want no part of a two-state solution is better, somehow?
you're not trying to have a logical, fact-based conversation with those sorts, are you?

Always do.

If we stop talking, we might as well just do a political cleansing, sending all the Reds to South America, to the dictatorships some of them seem to want.

by **steveschneider** 2024-02-05, 08:37

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh, the leadership of Israel who want no part of a two-state solution is better, somehow?
you're not trying to have a logical, fact-based conversation with those sorts, are you?

You’ve been incorrectly talking about genocide in here. Is that one of your “facts”?

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 08:45

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
you're not trying to have a logical, fact-based conversation with those sorts, are you?

You’ve been incorrectly talking about genocide in here. Is that one of your “facts”?

Just because Zionist Israel is really bad at it doesn't mean they aren't trying...

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-05, 09:11

Trapper Gus wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
you're not trying to have a logical, fact-based conversation with those sorts, are you?

Always do.

If we stop talking, we might as well just do a political cleansing, sending all the Reds to South America, to the dictatorships some of them seem to want.

I admire your efforts.

by **steveschneider** 2024-02-05, 09:21

Trapper Gus wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

You’ve been incorrectly talking about genocide in here. Is that one of your “facts”?

Just because Zionist Israel is really bad at it doesn't mean they aren't trying...

Oh so now it’s attempt of genocide.lol!

by Zurn 2024-02-05, 09:30

steveschneider wrote:

Where’s the genocide?

I guess "genocide" is to be added to the list of words leftists corrupt to the extent they really have no meaning anymore. Like "racism" and "fascism".

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 09:31

steveschneider wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Just because Zionist Israel is really bad at it doesn't mean they aren't trying...

Oh so now it’s attempt of genocide.lol!

Steve, if you would either read some of the links I have provided or do your own research instead of believing whatever propaganda you are absorbing you might have a clearer picture of reality.

There defiantly are political sects in the Israel government who want Palestine to be nothing by Zionists from the river to the sea, which is why the two-state solution failed and seriously, you don't know that the people in power in Israel are, and have been since the beginning, totally against a two-state solution.

It doesn't matter what we call it, they want every last non-Zionist removed from Palestine/Israel, no matter if it is by death or by driving them into the sea. You are only seeing that what they want and what they can get are two different things.

by Zurn 2024-02-05, 09:32

Trapper Gus wrote:

Just because Zionist Israel is really bad at it doesn't mean they aren't trying...

Trying to the extent that 20% of the Israeli population is Arab with the exact same rights and privileges' as every citizen. Israel war - Page 12 502811600

by Zurn 2024-02-05, 09:36

Trapper Gus wrote: which is why the two-state solution failed and seriously, you don't know that the people in power in Israel are, and have been since the beginning, totally against a two-state solution.

The two state solution has failed because one side has offered it many times and the other has refused it many times.

Trapper please quote from the Hamas charter a call for a two state solution. Or for that matter support for a two state solution from any Palestinian leader.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-05, 09:39

Trapper Gus wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

You’ve been incorrectly talking about genocide in here. Is that one of your “facts”?

Just because Zionist Israel is really bad at it doesn't mean they aren't trying...

they seem less concerned with genocide and more concerned with my lack of knowledge on watercraft.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 09:44

Zurn wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote: which is why the two-state solution failed and seriously, you don't know that the people in power in Israel are, and have been since the beginning, totally against a two-state solution.

The two state solution has failed because one side has offered it many times and the other has refused it many times.

Trapper please quote from the Hamas charter a call for a two state solution. Or for that matter support for a two state solution from any Palestinian leader.

Neither the current Israel government nor Hamas want two-state solution.

The more moderate representation on both sides were working towards the two state solution before, during and after the Oslo Accords.

Right wing Israelites (Zionists) assassinated Israel political leaders who were moving in this direction and then Netanyahu, who for his entire life has been all in on eliminating Palestinians from Palestine/Israel, as were his father & brother before him, came to power and since the from the Israel side the two-state solution has been off the table.

Since Netanyahu came to power, he has been supporting Hamas in order to keep the two-state solution from seeming viable. It is not clear if he wanted the October 7th blood bath in order to justify burning Gaza to the ground, or if he was just stupid. Since he hasn't shown himself to be stupid in that way it's at lease a 50/50 chance he wanted the attack.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 09:52

Zurn wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Just because Zionist Israel is really bad at it doesn't mean they aren't trying...

Trying to the extent that 20% of the Israeli population is Arab with the exact same rights and privileges' as every citizen.

Hardly...

Who are Palestinian citizens of Israel?

In 1948, approximately 750,000 indigenous Palestinians were expelled from their homeland by Zionist militias and the new Israeli army during Israel’s establishment as a Jewish majority state. Approximately 150,000 Palestinians remained inside Israel’s borders following the armistice that ended the resulting war, many of them internally displaced and denied the right to return to their homes, most of which were destroyed by Israel.

Most Palestinians who survived the expulsions were granted Israeli citizenship but between 1949 and 1966 they were governed by repressive military rule, forced into segregated “ghettos,” had most of their land taken from them for the use of Jewish Israelis, and severe restrictions were imposed on their freedom of movement, speech, and ability to earn a living.

Military rule was lifted in 1966 but today Palestinian citizens of Israel continue to have their land taken from them and homes destroyed, and suffer from widespread, systematic discrimination affecting almost every aspect of their lives.

https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-palestinian-citizens-of-israel

And refusing the make the rest of the Palestinians in Palestine citizens and putting severe limits on Palestinians who are citizens of Israel.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-05, 09:53

Trapper Gus wrote:
Zurn wrote:

The two state solution has failed because one side has offered it many times and the other has refused it many times.

Trapper please quote from the Hamas charter a call for a two state solution. Or for that matter support for a two state solution from any Palestinian leader.

Neither the current Israel government nor Hamas want two-state solution.

The more moderate representation on both sides were working towards the two state solution before, during and after the Oslo Accords.

Right wing Israelites (Zionists) assassinated Israel political leaders who were moving in this direction and then Netanyahu, who for his entire life has been all in on eliminating Palestinians from Palestine/Israel came to power and since the from the Israel side the two-state solution has been off the table.

Since Netanyahu came to power, he has been supporting Hamas in order to keep the two-state solution from seeming viable. It is not clear if he wanted the October 7th blood bath in order to justify burning Gaza to the ground, or if he was just stupid. Since he hasn't shown himself to be stupid in that way it's at lease a 50/50 chance he wanted the attack.

not unlike the 'pro-life' gun nuts in the good 'ol US of A celebrating mass/school shootings.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 10:24

Cameron wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

You should make sure you know what is happening. Breaking-Points is not the place to find that out, that isn't their job. They are another commentary show for entertainment, just like to ones on Fox.

Did what I could to vet "Breaking Points" however they are not listed on the site that rates news outlets.

Their site says the do commentary, which of course in not news, but viewpoints on the news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_Points

Using them as the only source risks falling into the trap of their reporting both not giving you all the sides of what they are talking about, and allowing their language and reporting choices stir up your emotions and mislead you. You should remember the more sensational their broadcasts are, the more "clicks" they get. They are in the business of get "clicks". Their reporting is first done to that end, not to inform us.

So, what do I know about this so far about these cemeteries?

1 - If has been reported that there are somewhere between 6 to 16 cemeteries that have been damaged, the IDF says is has damaged some of them looking for tunnels that have been reported underneath them and to examine some of the remains to see if they were some of the hostages.

2 - People are upset about this, and claiming it was destruction without a goal.

In the middle of a war zone there will be plenty of things to be upset about, this is just one thing of many. I am upset that Hamas was allowed to spend years turning Gara into a fortress of tunnels, imbedding its position within civilian population areas, including all sorts of thing, such as under hospitals, etc. I am also upset that they attacked Israel's civilians with a surprise attack and murdered them with no cause at all.

Hamas created this situation. Israel's response should have been more measured, as the United States said to Israel, however Israel has the justification, due to the attacks, to neutralize Hamas. Since Hamas has created a fortress that puts Gaza citizens & civilian infrastructure in harm's way, and Israel is being aggressive, there will be more of this sort of stuff.

How do I feel about this.

War is an Evil that mankind creates.

In a War there will be Evil Acts by all participants.

IMO it is allowing myself to react to propaganda, as this Breaking-Points commentary, is to join into the Evil conversation, too. Expressing outrage over a disputed action, and by disputed I am saying there are two sides to this, and I cannot know where the truth to this story is, is to take a side and emotionally, at least, leave the question of truth behind.

First of all, I'm well aware that Breaking Points is commentary, not news. Believe it or not, I don't need an engineer to explain it to me. If you'll remember, I'm not the one who confused them with Fox News for no explicable reason, that was your dumb ass.

Secondly, you condescendingly chide me about not getting propagandized, then you turn around and link me to a source that does nothing but uncritically regurgitate the IDF's press release without making any effort to verify or substantiate the claims made therein. So, again, maybe YOU are the one who needs to be more careful.

Thirdly, if you had watched the Breaking Points video and paid any attention at all, you would understand that it was CNN reporting that was being discussed. Here are some links directly to CNN's reporting:

Israel claims a tunnel ran through this Gaza cemetery it destroyed. A visit to the site raised more questions than answers

A spokesman for the Israeli military said they would provide video of the tunnel shaft in the enormous hole, but never did.

Instead, the IDF provided drone footage that showed two other tunnel entrances – one of which CNN entered – near the cemetery. CNN geolocated the tunnel entrances using footage filmed on the ground, as well as satellite imagery, and found that neither was in the cemetery grounds.

The Israeli military stood by its claims, insisting in a press release that a tunnel ran directly through the religious site.

But that press release also undermined Goldfuss’ claim that the underground command center was directly below the cemetery. A map released by the military placed the command center outside the graveyard.

IDF says they destroyed this Gaza graveyard because of Hamas activity. CNN can't find the evidence

This is not an isolated incident, CNN found 16 cemeteries had been affected. The IDF tried to show off the most egregious one to make their case, yet their chosen example didn't appear to run under the cemetery itself based upon the extremely, suspiciously limited access they were willing to grant reporters.

So kindly take your sanctimony and condescension and shove them up your ass.

Didn't see your reply until now, some comments.

The Fox thing is old news, a meaningless comment on your part and not germane to the discussion of using multiple sources, however, it is because it seemed just like a Fox report that I made the error. I find it hard to separate the various "comminatory" from one another.

The link I provided gave a different viewpoint, which was why I provided it. I also pointed out some of the "wheat from the chaff", what we really know verses what we are being told by "commentary".

As to the CNN report, CNN reporters are no less susceptible to reporting what their beliefs are than anyone else, plus Breaking Points didn't give us the full CNN report, just a "sound bite" which is how opinion sites present only what they want you to see in order to support the argument they are making.

My plea still is that you try to see all sides of what is going on. I see you posting "outrage" that is one-sided, and I question it. Then you get "outraged" about me questioning that.

Are there valid reasons to be disturbing cemeteries? IDF says "yes" and others are outraged and question what IDF is saying. What is the truth is my question, and I don't believe we know that.

Coming from a family of reporters/editors all with BAs from the MSU School of Jouralisum I have a critical viewpoint on what I see reported in terms of how true it is, just because I grew up listening to how much the "news" gets wrong. This causes me to be very sensitive to just seeing one side of the story being used uncritically, as far as I can tell.

It doesn't help in this case that my personal belief about death is that a cemetery is just a place where bodies are rotting or have turned to dust, so I don't have any emotional response to their damage or destruction, though I understand others do, and thus don't personally have a significant problem with this "desecration". (desecration, of course is an emotional loaded word)

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 10:27

[tw]1754223460954337373[/tw]

Looks like Biden is having some effect on a few right wing Zionists.

by **Cameron** 2024-02-05, 14:34

Trapper Gus wrote:
Cameron wrote:

First of all, I'm well aware that Breaking Points is commentary, not news. Believe it or not, I don't need an engineer to explain it to me. If you'll remember, I'm not the one who confused them with Fox News for no explicable reason, that was your dumb ass.

Secondly, you condescendingly chide me about not getting propagandized, then you turn around and link me to a source that does nothing but uncritically regurgitate the IDF's press release without making any effort to verify or substantiate the claims made therein. So, again, maybe YOU are the one who needs to be more careful.

Thirdly, if you had watched the Breaking Points video and paid any attention at all, you would understand that it was CNN reporting that was being discussed. Here are some links directly to CNN's reporting:

Israel claims a tunnel ran through this Gaza cemetery it destroyed. A visit to the site raised more questions than answers

IDF says they destroyed this Gaza graveyard because of Hamas activity. CNN can't find the evidence

This is not an isolated incident, CNN found 16 cemeteries had been affected. The IDF tried to show off the most egregious one to make their case, yet their chosen example didn't appear to run under the cemetery itself based upon the extremely, suspiciously limited access they were willing to grant reporters.

So kindly take your sanctimony and condescension and shove them up your ass.

Didn't see your reply until now, some comments.

The Fox thing is old news, a meaningless comment on your part and not germane to the discussion of using multiple sources, however, it is because it seemed just like a Fox report that I made the error. I find it hard to separate the various "comminatory" from one another.

The link I provided gave a different viewpoint, which was why I provided it. I also pointed out some of the "wheat from the chaff", what we really know verses what we are being told by "commentary".

As to the CNN report, CNN reporters are no less susceptible to reporting what their beliefs are than anyone else, plus Breaking Points didn't give us the full CNN report, just a "sound bite" which is how opinion sites present only what they want you to see in order to support the argument they are making.

My plea still is that you try to see all sides of what is going on. I see you posting "outrage" that is one-sided, and I question it. Then you get "outraged" about me questioning that.

Are there valid reasons to be disturbing cemeteries? IDF says "yes" and others are outraged and question what IDF is saying. What is the truth is my question, and I don't believe we know that.

Coming from a family of reporters/editors all with BAs from the MSU School of Jouralisum I have a critical viewpoint on what I see reported in terms of how true it is, just because I grew up listening to how much the "news" gets wrong. This causes me to be very sensitive to just seeing one side of the story being used uncritically, as far as I can tell.

It doesn't help in this case that my personal belief about death is that a cemetery is just a place where bodies are rotting or have turned to dust, so I don't have any emotional response to their damage or destruction, though I understand others do, and thus don't personally have a significant problem with this "desecration". (desecration, of course is an emotional loaded word)

My plea is for you to gain a single solitary shred of self awareness and recognize that you are in no position to be lecturing anyone about their susceptibility to bias. You are perhaps the most biased individual who has ever posted on tBin. Also the most unnecessarily long-winded. Brevity is the soul of wit, and you often take several paragraphs to say something that could be said in a sentence or two, if it even needed to be said at all.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 19:21

Cameron wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Didn't see your reply until now, some comments.

The Fox thing is old news, a meaningless comment on your part and not germane to the discussion of using multiple sources, however, it is because it seemed just like a Fox report that I made the error. I find it hard to separate the various "comminatory" from one another.

The link I provided gave a different viewpoint, which was why I provided it. I also pointed out some of the "wheat from the chaff", what we really know verses what we are being told by "commentary".

As to the CNN report, CNN reporters are no less susceptible to reporting what their beliefs are than anyone else, plus Breaking Points didn't give us the full CNN report, just a "sound bite" which is how opinion sites present only what they want you to see in order to support the argument they are making.

My plea still is that you try to see all sides of what is going on. I see you posting "outrage" that is one-sided, and I question it. Then you get "outraged" about me questioning that.

Are there valid reasons to be disturbing cemeteries? IDF says "yes" and others are outraged and question what IDF is saying. What is the truth is my question, and I don't believe we know that.

Coming from a family of reporters/editors all with BAs from the MSU School of Jouralisum I have a critical viewpoint on what I see reported in terms of how true it is, just because I grew up listening to how much the "news" gets wrong. This causes me to be very sensitive to just seeing one side of the story being used uncritically, as far as I can tell.

It doesn't help in this case that my personal belief about death is that a cemetery is just a place where bodies are rotting or have turned to dust, so I don't have any emotional response to their damage or destruction, though I understand others do, and thus don't personally have a significant problem with this "desecration". (desecration, of course is an emotional loaded word)

My plea is for you to gain a single solitary shred of self awareness and recognize that you are in no position to be lecturing anyone about their susceptibility to bias. You are perhaps the most biased individual who has ever posted on tBin. Also the most unnecessarily long-winded. Brevity is the soul of wit, and you often take several paragraphs to say something that could be said in a sentence or two, if it even needed to be said at all.

Complex issues require complex explainainations.

Partisanship is certainly bias, which I readily embrace. I am partisan to what I believe are the best political policies for the people of the United States.

I'm not against well done partisanship or propaganda. When it is sloppy it is insulting to all.

Regardless of that I still believe both sides are evil in the conflict in Israel/Palinstine and the the US had no winning options on October 7th in terms of stopping the immediate conflict.

It is yet to be seen if the US can play a mid to long game that improves the situation.

by **Cameron** 2024-02-05, 19:33

Israel-Gaza war: Unknown fate of six-year-old Hind Rajab trapped under fire

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 19:44

Cameron wrote:Israel-Gaza war: Unknown fate of six-year-old Hind Rajab trapped under fire

Of course ones feeling are bruised reading that report. The innocents in a war zone and what happens to them are heartbreaking.

That isn't sloppy propaganda, nor is it partisan.

It's just reporting without anyone telling anyone what to think, or feel. Hemingway might have written that when he was a reporter.

Of course we have no way to confirm if it is reality, and to make its point, war is tragic for the innocents caught in it, it doesn't have to be true. It is well done with nothing sloppy about it.

Let me add that regardless of my opinions of your expressed frustrations with what the US has been doing, I do respect the honesty of your point of view on this.

by **Cameron** 2024-02-05, 20:04

I mean, it has direct quotes from primary sources... But I didn't post it seeking an evaluation of its veracity from our resident expert.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-05, 20:34

Cameron wrote:I mean, it has direct quotes from primary sources... But I didn't post it seeking an evaluation of its veracity from our resident expert.

And I stated it's effect first, as I assumed that was why you posted it.

The rest is because we really cannot know if those are real people or the writer has invented them to create this report. Even if we see them talking in a video we cannot be sure.

We are lied to on the internets all the time, for various reasons, something that remains in the front of my mind all the time with war reporting.

The truth of that report is that even if it isn't true it represents a analogy to situations which are true.

I don't consider myself an expert on these things. I am an expert on a narrow branch of engineering. On reporting I am a sensitive novice, attempting to sensitive others to be sensitive to what they believe in reported articles. If I was an expert at it you would never know I was doing it.

The article you posted the link to was written by an expert.

Hemingway is one person I can use as an example of an expert in the way I believe you mean. He creates the effect he is aiming at and you cannot know how much is real and how much he created himself.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-06, 05:42

Cameron wrote:Israel-Gaza war: Unknown fate of six-year-old Hind Rajab trapped under fire

I wouldn't start caring about the lives of Palestinians if I were you.. you might get a lecture about a boat from someone who claims to be "pro-life".

by **steveschneider** 2024-02-06, 07:36

You guys figure out what genocide is yet? That’s the only thing I care about in this thread. I feel like I made some progress yesterday after a quick skim I didn’t see anyone accusing israel of genocide.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-06, 07:52

steveschneider wrote:You guys figure out what genocide is yet? That’s the only thing I care about in this thread. I feel like I made some progress yesterday after a quick skim I didn’t see anyone accusing israel of genocide.

I don't suspect it'll do any good, but..

According to the Associated Press, the Gaza's Health Ministry reported on Friday that the death toll among Palestinians in the Gaza Strip has exceeded 26,000.

in the span of 4 months, 26,000 Palestinians have been murdered by Israel and war criminal/genocidal maniac Netanyahu.

keep in mind that this is being reported by the mainstream media, so the number is quite likely higher.

now proceed to minimizing this tragic number and redefining it in a way that suits your agenda.

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

by Zurn 2024-02-06, 07:59

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

According to the Associated Press, the Gaza's Health Ministry reported on Friday that the death toll among Palestinians in the Gaza Strip has exceeded 26,000.

.

keep in mind that this is being reported by the mainstream media, so the number is quite likely higher.

The Gaza Health Ministry is part of the mainstream media? Israel war - Page 12 502811600

by Zurn 2024-02-06, 08:01

steveschneider wrote:You guys figure out what genocide is yet? That’s the only thing I care about in this thread. I feel like I made some progress yesterday after a quick skim I didn’t see anyone accusing israel of genocide.

I'm wondering if Bob is joining the pro-life Christian, gun loving Republican party in opposing the bombs for Ukraine immigration bill?

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-06, 08:04

Zurn wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:

.

keep in mind that this is being reported by the mainstream media, so the number is quite likely higher.

The Gaza Health Ministry is part of the mainstream media?

literally the first sentence in the quote: According to the Associated Press

I know you're not that dumb, dude - it's not a good look. At least just defend genocide instead of talking about boats and pretending not to be able to read.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-06, 08:06

Zurn wrote:
steveschneider wrote:You guys figure out what genocide is yet? That’s the only thing I care about in this thread. I feel like I made some progress yesterday after a quick skim I didn’t see anyone accusing israel of genocide.

I'm wondering if Bob is joining the pro-life Christian, gun loving Republican party in opposing the bombs for Ukraine immigration bill?

I am pro-life, anti-christian (religion, but especially christian.. thanks to people like you), and very much anti- gun.

and, yep - I'm okay with not sending money that funds violence in Ukraine.

see how easy it is to be morally consistent when not living under the perverted fog of politics and christianity?

by Zurn 2024-02-06, 08:23

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Zurn wrote:

The Gaza Health Ministry is part of the mainstream media?
literally the first sentence in the quote: According to the Associated Press

I know you're not that dumb, dude - it's not a good look. At least just defend genocide instead of talking about boats and pretending not to be able to read.

"According to the AP" .... then what Bob?

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-06, 08:41

Zurn wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: literally the first sentence in the quote: According to the Associated Press

I know you're not that dumb, dude - it's not a good look. At least just defend genocide instead of talking about boats and pretending not to be able to read.

"According to the AP" .... then what Bob?

and you wonder why I consistently mock 'pro-life' christians like you. Israel war - Page 12 502811600

when you're finished believing what the mainstream media reports, tell me more about boats.. I promise to listen. Israel war - Page 12 1966794946

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-07, 10:16

FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) — Missiles and drones are flying in the Red Sea, disrupting one of the world’s key trade arteries and a chokepoint for energy shipments headed for Europe.

Attacks by Yemen’s Houthi rebels over Israel’s war with Hamas are posing a new threat to the future of energy supplies to the 27-country European Union, which relies on imported natural gas to power factories, generate electricity and heat homes.

Tankers carrying liquefied natural gas — which is supercooled to travel by ship instead of pipeline — routinely pass through the Red Sea, and several shipments to Italy already have been canceled.

It’s causing anxiety, especially as Europe still is grappling with the fallout from an energy crisis after Russia largely cut off natural gas to the continent over the invasion of Ukraine.

https://apnews.com/article/houthi-ship-attacks-red-sea-lng-europe-50661b8d42065f7fd7cab6556574e4b6

This is the War the US is fighting. What is happening in Israel, as horrible as it is, is a side show.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-02-07, 17:18

international war criminal and genocidal maniac, Benjamin Netanyahu, rejects terms of a cease fire agreement.

Gaza ceasefire: Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu rejects Hamas's proposed terms

I'm afraid Israel won't stop with their genocide until every Palestinian man, woman and child is massacred.

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-07, 17:22

The estimated population of Gaza is 2.1 million. This thing is going to take a while...

However I agree with Bob's assessment of the present Israel War Government.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-09, 10:07

In the rush to condemn Joe for saying Mexico instead of Egypt last night the anti-Biden crowd missed a major policy announcement, even though they through they were listening.

WASHINGTON, Feb 8 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden on Thursday suggested that Israel's military response in Gaza has been "over the top" and said he is seeking a "sustained pause in the fighting" to help ailing Palestinian civilians.

"I'm of the view, as you know, that the conduct of the response in the Gaza Strip has been over the top," Biden told reporters at the White House.

He added that he has been pushing for a deal to normalize Saudi Arabia-Israel relations, increased humanitarian aid for Palestinian civilians and a temporary pause in fighting to allow the release of hostages taken by Hamas.

"I'm pushing very hard now to deal with this hostage ceasefire," Biden said. "There are a lot of innocent people who are starving, a lot of innocent people who are in trouble and dying, and it's gotta stop."

The remarks, some of Biden's sharpest public criticism to date of the government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, come as the Democratic president has come under increasing domestic pressure to press Israel to stop fighting. (And after being grilled by the press, moments earlier, over the SP report questioning his memory - TG)

Link to Important Stuff Biden Said

by Zurn 2024-02-09, 15:01

Trapper Gus wrote:The estimated population of Gaza is 2.1 million. This thing is going to take a while...

Bob says it won't stop until Israel kills every person in Gaza. So at roughly 10,000 deaths per month, if my math is correct, 2.1 million/10,000 = 17 1/2 years.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-10, 08:35

CIA director Bill Burns is expected to travel to Cairo next week for meetings with Egyptian officials about the efforts to launch negotiations over a new deal to secure the release of the remaining hostages in Gaza, two U.S. and Israeli officials say.

Why it matters: Burns has been President Biden's point person in the efforts to secure a hostage deal and a pause in fighting. Sending him to Cairo puts pressure on Qatari and Egyptian mediators to press Hamas to agree to a reasonable deal.

U.S. officials say the White House acknowledges that a hostage deal is the only way to get a ceasefire in Gaza. Biden said in televised remarks on Thursday that he is pushing hard for a deal.

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/09/cia-israel-gaza-hostages-egypt-hamas-qatar

by **Cameron** 2024-02-10, 11:43

Cameron wrote:Israel-Gaza war: Unknown fate of six-year-old Hind Rajab trapped under fire

Hind Rajab, 6, found dead in Gaza days after phone calls for help

At the hospital where she waited for news of her daughter, Hind's mother, Wissam, still holds the little pink bag she was keeping for her. Inside it, a notebook where Hind had been practising her handwriting.

"How many more mothers are you waiting to feel this pain? How many more children do you want to get killed?" she said.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-02-10, 12:26

Cameron wrote:
Cameron wrote:Israel-Gaza war: Unknown fate of six-year-old Hind Rajab trapped under fire

Hind Rajab, 6, found dead in Gaza days after phone calls for help

At the hospital where she waited for news of her daughter, Hind's mother, Wissam, still holds the little pink bag she was keeping for her. Inside it, a notebook where Hind had been practising her handwriting.

"How many more mothers are you waiting to feel this pain? How many more children do you want to get killed?" she said.

Tragic story, however both side hold equal blame for the war. Hamas kills innocents, then hides amount innocents, IDF uses scorched earth attacks with the excuse they can't tell fighters from civilians.

by **Cameron** 2024-02-10, 12:36

You could (and should) have stopped after the first two words you wrote.

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