Re: NBA Finals Thread

by **steveschneider** 2015-06-14, 20:56

Dirty play on Dellavadova.

by **steveschneider** 2015-06-14, 21:10

Why are they benching mosgov?

by Guest 2015-06-14, 21:24

Blanch32 wrote:Hate to say it but cavs look spent already. Wish blatt tanked the last game when it was clear lebron wasn't all in

I'm waiting to see which 2 franchise owners are going to be groundbreaking and gutsy enough to both hire Blanch? Jerry Jones and Dan Gilbert? Say $7.5 million each and they get 50% of his time.

by **Blanch32** 2015-06-14, 22:11

steveschneider wrote:Why are they benching mosgov?

Not a fan of this. Should have gone big. Playing gs game tonight

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-06-14, 22:19

They're decidedly not playing GSW's game tonight. Total on the game was 195.5 and it's trending under. GSW's game would be in the 205-210 range.

by **steveschneider** 2015-06-14, 22:33

Crazy game. Oracle arena is fired up!!!

by **steveschneider** 2015-06-14, 22:36

Curry is the best shooter I've ever seen. Makes a tough shot look easy.

by **steveschneider** 2015-06-14, 22:41

Iguodala blowing it

by **InTenSity** 2015-06-14, 22:52

Go green!

by **CORNER BLITZ** 2015-06-14, 22:56

steveschneider wrote:Iguodala blowing it

How is it possible for him to be such a bad FT shooter

by **steveschneider** 2015-06-14, 23:02

Blanch32 wrote:
steveschneider wrote:Why are they benching mosgov?

Not a fan of this. Should have gone big. Playing gs game tonight

Thought it was a blunder not using more of Mosgov this game. Blatt is too smart of a coach to do that, wonder if Lebron wanted him to come in later to sort of spark the team in the second half? Didn't work, had no rhythm at that point in the game.

Also, stunned Cleveland didn't try to find Smith for a 3pth shot more in the 2nd half.

That was a pivotal game, I think Golden State wins it all on Tuesday. whoever picked Warriors in game 6 good call.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-06-15, 00:03

Ok, I'm officially a hater. Whatever that means.

Again, I can't blame a guy who has been anointed "the King" since he was 15 and I'm on record as hating the AAU system/climate and what it breeds.....but jesus, Lebron doesn't get it. He just doesn't.

Definitely the most physically talented player ever (Wilt doesn't really count imo). But mentally he was a prima donna before he even had a chance to harden up. He might get a quadruple double in any given matchup but Magic, Michael, Larry, Isiah or even Kobe would absolutely steal this guy's lunch money in the last 5 minutes of a game. I don't care how many titles he wins, he's never going to be on par with those dudes. He just. doesn't. get it.

by **CORNER BLITZ** 2015-06-15, 00:18

https://mobile.twitter.com/isportsDave/status/610290688543080448/video/1

by **Cameron** 2015-06-15, 00:19

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Ok, I'm officially a hater. Whatever that means.

Again, I can't blame a guy who has been anointed "the King" since he was 15 and I'm on record as hating the AAU system/climate and what it breeds.....but jesus, Lebron doesn't get it. He just doesn't.

Definitely the most physically talented player ever (Wilt doesn't really count imo). But mentally he was a prima donna before he even had a chance to harden up. He might get a quadruple double in any given matchup but Magic, Michael, Larry, Isiah or even Kobe would absolutely steal this guy's lunch money in the last 5 minutes of a game. I don't care how many titles he wins, he's never going to be on par with those dudes. He just. doesn't. get it.

Disagree. MJ, Magic, Larry, Isiah, and Kobe never got a team this untalented this far. Has he ever had a teammate as good as Pippen or Shaq? No. Wade is a hall of famer, but his time with LeBron was after his prime. Bird had McHale and Parrish. Magic had loads of help (all of whom he made even better, but still). LeBron is an all-timer. He could retire after this series (which he will lose) and still be one of the 5 best players ever.

If you're playing pickup with every player ever at his absolute peak, are there 5 guys you'd take before LeBron? Not me. I've got MJ, Magic, and Bill Russell ahead of LeBron. Make an argument for anyone else.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-06-15, 00:28

Cameron wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Ok, I'm officially a hater. Whatever that means.

Again, I can't blame a guy who has been anointed "the King" since he was 15 and I'm on record as hating the AAU system/climate and what it breeds.....but jesus, Lebron doesn't get it. He just doesn't.

Definitely the most physically talented player ever (Wilt doesn't really count imo). But mentally he was a prima donna before he even had a chance to harden up. He might get a quadruple double in any given matchup but Magic, Michael, Larry, Isiah or even Kobe would absolutely steal this guy's lunch money in the last 5 minutes of a game. I don't care how many titles he wins, he's never going to be on par with those dudes. He just. doesn't. get it.

Disagree. MJ, Magic, Larry, Isiah, and Kobe never got a team this untalented this far. Has he ever had a teammate as good as Pippen or Shaq? No. Wade is a hall of famer, but his time with LeBron was after his prime. Bird had McHale and Parrish. Magic had loads of help (all of whom he made even better, but still). LeBron is an all-timer. He could retire after this series (which he will lose) and still be one of the 5 best players ever.

If you're playing pickup with every player ever at his absolute peak, are there 5 guys you'd take before LeBron? Not me. I've got MJ, Magic, and Bill Russell ahead of LeBron. Make an argument for anyone else.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. However, you're missing the point.

In order to be the greatest of all time, or one of the greatest of all time, you need a competitive edge/mentality to go along with your physical skill set. He doesn't have it. He's been entitled since day one. I thought he had evolved but his public comments indicate otherwise. I'm not sure if it's something you're born with, or something you develop because of your environment, but he absolutely doesn't have it. He just knows he's great, and can live in his little bubble with his entourage and keep building his 'global empire'.

Any of those other dudes would slit their own mother's throat to win a possession, a rebound, a game, a series a title. That's all they cared about. Winning. Tough for a guy who grew up on the cover of SI to take the focus off of his own individual performance and place it on winning.

He would fit in just fine on a top 5 team so long as he had a Magic, a Michael or a Zeke doing the dirty deeds for him that are necessary to win.

Sorry, not an era apologist. He's a great player, an all-timer. He's just not an all-time winner like those guys were. It takes more than talent.

by **Cameron** 2015-06-15, 00:37

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Disagree. MJ, Magic, Larry, Isiah, and Kobe never got a team this untalented this far. Has he ever had a teammate as good as Pippen or Shaq? No. Wade is a hall of famer, but his time with LeBron was after his prime. Bird had McHale and Parrish. Magic had loads of help (all of whom he made even better, but still). LeBron is an all-timer. He could retire after this series (which he will lose) and still be one of the 5 best players ever.

If you're playing pickup with every player ever at his absolute peak, are there 5 guys you'd take before LeBron? Not me. I've got MJ, Magic, and Bill Russell ahead of LeBron. Make an argument for anyone else.
I don't disagree with anything you've said. However, you're missing the point.

In order to be the greatest of all time, or one of the greatest of all time, you need a competitive edge/mentality to go along with your physical skill set. He doesn't have it. He's been entitled since day one. I thought he had evolved but his public comments indicate otherwise. I'm not sure if it's something you're born with, or something you develop because of your environment, but he absolutely doesn't have it. He just knows he's great, and can live in his little bubble with his entourage and keep building his 'global empire'.

Any of those other dudes would slit their own mother's throat to win a possession, a rebound, a game, a series a title. That's all they cared about. Winning. Tough for a guy who grew up on the cover of SI to take the focus off of his own individual performance and place it on winning.

He would fit in just fine on a top 5 team so long as he had a Magic, a Michael or a Zeke doing the dirty deeds for him that are necessary to win.

Sorry, not an era apologist. He's a great player, an all-timer. He's just not an all-time winner like those guys were. It takes more than talent.

I dunno, man. I get what you're saying, but I'm just not sure I agree. Look at what he's doing in this series. His team is completely overmatched, but he's throwing up 36.6/12.4/8.8 this series and he's literally the only guy on Cleveland who can create his own shot now that Kyrie is hurt. He will lose this series, but he may win the finals MVP (which I think only West has done on a team that lost) and he may be having the greatest finals of any individual ever.

The fact that they're down doesn't indicate that he lacks killer instinct in my eyes. The fact that they've won 2 games or ever lead the series indicates to me that he's a fucking monster who can do things on a basketball court that most Hall of Famers can only dream about. Replace LeBron on this team with peak Kobe and Cleveland gets swept, IMO.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-06-15, 00:44

Cameron wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
I don't disagree with anything you've said. However, you're missing the point.

In order to be the greatest of all time, or one of the greatest of all time, you need a competitive edge/mentality to go along with your physical skill set. He doesn't have it. He's been entitled since day one. I thought he had evolved but his public comments indicate otherwise. I'm not sure if it's something you're born with, or something you develop because of your environment, but he absolutely doesn't have it. He just knows he's great, and can live in his little bubble with his entourage and keep building his 'global empire'.

Any of those other dudes would slit their own mother's throat to win a possession, a rebound, a game, a series a title. That's all they cared about. Winning. Tough for a guy who grew up on the cover of SI to take the focus off of his own individual performance and place it on winning.

He would fit in just fine on a top 5 team so long as he had a Magic, a Michael or a Zeke doing the dirty deeds for him that are necessary to win.

Sorry, not an era apologist. He's a great player, an all-timer. He's just not an all-time winner like those guys were. It takes more than talent.

I dunno, man. I get what you're saying, but I'm just not sure I agree. Look at what he's doing in this series. His team is completely overmatched, but he's throwing up 36.6/12.4/8.8 this series and he's literally the only guy on Cleveland who can create his own shot now that Kyrie is hurt. He will lose this series, but he may win the finals MVP (which I think only West has done on a team that lost) and he may be having the greatest finals of any individual ever.

The fact that they're down doesn't indicate that he lacks killer instinct in my eyes. The fact that they've won 2 games or ever lead the series indicates to me that he's a fucking monster who can do things on a basketball court that most Hall of Famers can only dream about. Replace LeBron on this team with peak Kobe and Cleveland gets swept, IMO.

I'm more speaking to his press conference comments. Again I mostly agree with you. His physical skill is absolutely off the charts and dwarfs anything we've seen since the Wilt days. He just doesn't have the same mental makeup. Not even close. That's cool, we should appreciate his physical talent for what it is.

by **Cameron** 2015-06-15, 00:50

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
Cameron wrote:

I dunno, man. I get what you're saying, but I'm just not sure I agree. Look at what he's doing in this series. His team is completely overmatched, but he's throwing up 36.6/12.4/8.8 this series and he's literally the only guy on Cleveland who can create his own shot now that Kyrie is hurt. He will lose this series, but he may win the finals MVP (which I think only West has done on a team that lost) and he may be having the greatest finals of any individual ever.

The fact that they're down doesn't indicate that he lacks killer instinct in my eyes. The fact that they've won 2 games or ever lead the series indicates to me that he's a fucking monster who can do things on a basketball court that most Hall of Famers can only dream about. Replace LeBron on this team with peak Kobe and Cleveland gets swept, IMO.
I'm more speaking to his press conference comments. Again I mostly agree with you. His physical skill is absolutely off the charts and dwarfs anything we've seen since the Wilt days. He just doesn't have the same mental makeup. Not even close. That's cool, we should appreciate his physical talent for what it is.

I haven't paid much attention to his press conference comments. I agree that he whines too much (way too much of that in the NBA in general these days), something that Wade rubbed off on him, I think. But I think some sour grapes in press conferences are natural. I dunno how the media/press conference schedule compares to the old days, but I think lots of guys probably come off as sore losers in the 30 minutes directly following a tough loss on the biggest stage in their sport.

But, as I said, I haven't paid attention to his press conference comments. Maybe some quotes or specific examples would help illustrate your point.

by **Blanch32** 2015-06-15, 07:42

LooseGoose wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:Hate to say it but cavs look spent already. Wish blatt tanked the last game when it was clear lebron wasn't all in

I'm waiting to see which 2 franchise owners are going to be groundbreaking and gutsy enough to both hire Blanch? Jerry Jones and Dan Gilbert? Say $7.5 million each and they get 50% of his time.

Fwiw I don't pretend to know football. I rely on star counts for those predictions

by **Blanch32** 2015-06-15, 07:45

steveschneider wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

Not a fan of this. Should have gone big. Playing gs game tonight

Thought it was a blunder not using more of Mosgov this game. Blatt is too smart of a coach to do that, wonder if Lebron wanted him to come in later to sort of spark the team in the second half? Didn't work, had no rhythm at that point in the game.

Also, stunned Cleveland didn't try to find Smith for a 3pth shot more in the 2nd half.

That was a pivotal game, I think Golden State wins it all on Tuesday. whoever picked Warriors in game 6 good call.

Fwiw, I don't think they will keep JR going forward. Cavs need at least one more ball handler, guy who can create his own shit. JR just isn't stepping up for reason reason....not meshing w bron

by **Blanch32** 2015-06-15, 07:51

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Disagree. MJ, Magic, Larry, Isiah, and Kobe never got a team this untalented this far. Has he ever had a teammate as good as Pippen or Shaq? No. Wade is a hall of famer, but his time with LeBron was after his prime. Bird had McHale and Parrish. Magic had loads of help (all of whom he made even better, but still). LeBron is an all-timer. He could retire after this series (which he will lose) and still be one of the 5 best players ever.

If you're playing pickup with every player ever at his absolute peak, are there 5 guys you'd take before LeBron? Not me. I've got MJ, Magic, and Bill Russell ahead of LeBron. Make an argument for anyone else.
I don't disagree with anything you've said. However, you're missing the point.

In order to be the greatest of all time, or one of the greatest of all time, you need a competitive edge/mentality to go along with your physical skill set. He doesn't have it. He's been entitled since day one. I thought he had evolved but his public comments indicate otherwise. I'm not sure if it's something you're born with, or something you develop because of your environment, but he absolutely doesn't have it. He just knows he's great, and can live in his little bubble with his entourage and keep building his 'global empire'.

Any of those other dudes would slit their own mother's throat to win a possession, a rebound, a game, a series a title. That's all they cared about. Winning. Tough for a guy who grew up on the cover of SI to take the focus off of his own individual performance and place it on winning.

He would fit in just fine on a top 5 team so long as he had a Magic, a Michael or a Zeke doing the dirty deeds for him that are necessary to win.

Sorry, not an era apologist. He's a great player, an all-timer. He's just not an all-time winner like those guys were. It takes more than talent.

Tough to be this "winner" you speak of when your the opener, closer, and middle relief. Lebron had to do everything to get here, and it's clear why....other than delly, whose also spent, no one else is really stepping up.

Everyone else you mentioned had help, so they could fairly easily transition to "the man" in crunch time.

....and they all played in easier eras

by **Blanch32** 2015-06-15, 07:55

....finally give me an example of your "top 5" that were tested like lebron was this season? This is year 1 back in Cleveland and 2 or 3 of their starters are out. Find me those examples aside 1 game by magic

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-06-15, 07:58

LeBron sucks and I'm glad he didn't play at MSU..

GO GREEN!!!

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-06-15, 08:51

Warriors in 6 boom

by **Turtleneck** 2015-06-15, 08:57

Blanch32 wrote:

....and they all played in easier eras

Were you born yesterday? Serious question.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-06-15, 09:12

Turtleneck wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

....and they all played in easier eras

Were you born yesterday? Serious question.

This is a very touchy subject with you.

by **Turtleneck** 2015-06-15, 09:16

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

Were you born yesterday? Serious question.

This is a very touchy subject with you.

I'm not touchy. I'm right.

by **Blanch32** 2015-06-15, 22:26

Turtleneck wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

....and they all played in easier eras

Were you born yesterday? Serious question.

Serious answer: i wish. 2.5 years of someone wiling my ass and sleeping 12+ hours a day then no real responsibilities for like 15 or so years would be tits

by **CORNER BLITZ** 2015-06-15, 22:45

Vs.

https://vine.co/v/ee6K7II160w

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-06-15, 23:18

Good find CB.

I don't know, man. Again I don't consider myself a "hater" or even a "generationalist". I actually DID hate MJ. With a passion. I am nowhere near as into the NBA today as I was back in the early 90's, and I don't hate Lebron. Just observing.

But I know MJ would have never gone up in front of the entire universe and declared himself the best player in the world. Especially after a loss. He would have taken the question - which wasn't even addressing the subject of best player in the world - and any additional talk by any of the Warriors and/or media, and he would have used it to light a fire under his own ass. Internal motivation. And then he would have embarrassed any motherfucker who dared to doubt him on the court, and he would have let them know about it on the court. And not in the press.

These guys were just different in terms of mental makeup. I don't think it's a generational thing because I think Kobe is closer in age to Lebron than he is to MJ and Kobe has it. It's a competitive thing. Lebron just doesn't have the mental makeup. He's an entitled pussy in Superman's body.

by **CORNER BLITZ** 2015-06-15, 23:34

Blanch32 wrote:

Tough to be this "winner" you speak of when your the opener, closer, and middle relief. Lebron had to do everything to get here, and it's clear why....other than delly, whose also spent, no one else is really stepping up.

Everyone else you mentioned had help, so they could fairly easily transition to "the man" in crunch time.

....and they all played in easier eras

AI had far less help and won a game on his own against a better team

by Triple Sparty 2015-06-15, 23:38

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Good find CB.

I don't know, man. Again I don't consider myself a "hater" or even a "generationalist". I actually DID hate MJ. With a passion. I am nowhere near as into the NBA today as I was back in the early 90's, and I don't hate Lebron. Just observing.

But I know MJ would have never gone up in front of the entire universe and declared himself the best player in the world. Especially after a loss. He would have taken the question - which wasn't even addressing the subject of best player in the world - and any additional talk by any of the Warriors and/or media, and he would have used it to light a fire under his own ass. Internal motivation. And then he would have embarrassed any motherfucker who dared to doubt him on the court, and he would have let them know about it on the court. And not in the press.

These guys were just different in terms of mental makeup. I don't think it's a generational thing because I think Kobe is closer in age to Lebron than he is to MJ and Kobe has it. It's a competitive thing. Lebron just doesn't have the mental makeup. He's an entitled pussy in Superman's body.

You're officially a hater this morning but now you're not a hater. Make up your mind, and quit toying with Lebron's ticker.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-06-15, 23:40

Ha, you're right. Forgot I said that last night.

I'm not a hater in the sense that I really care and I'm not going to harp on the guy. But I will scoff at anyone who calls him the GOAT.

by **Turtleneck** 2015-06-15, 23:56

When the Pistons went to the Finals in 1988 - first of three straight trips - they had to go through a Washingon team with Bernard King, Jeff Malone, and Moses Malone; a Chicago team with MJ (Pippen was a rookie); a Boston team with Bird, McHale, Parrish, Ainge, and Dennis Johnson. Then the Pistons had the pleasure of playing Magic's Lakers, who went through the Stockton to Malone show to get to the Finals. So LeBron did more in an Eastern Conference that pales in comparison to what all the guys "with help" had to go through to get to the Finals. It's not like LeBron had to beat the 80s Celtics, late 80s/early 90s Pistons, or 90s Bulls to get out of the East. Right now, UK would be a playoff team in the East. LeBron is an all-time great, but the conference he plays in is dog shit right now.

by **steveschneider** 2015-06-15, 23:59

Turtleneck wrote:When the Pistons went to the Finals in 1988 - first of three straight trips - they had to go through a Washingon team with Bernard King, Jeff Malone, and Moses Malone; a Chicago team with MJ (Pippen was a rookie); a Boston team with Bird, McHale, Parrish, Ainge, and Dennis Johnson. Then the Pistons had the pleasure of playing Magic's Lakers, who went through the Stockton to Malone show to get to the Finals. So LeBron did more in an Eastern Conference that pales in comparison to what all they guys "with help" had to go through to get to the Finals.

Hands down my favorite era of the sport was the NBA in the 80s. Even the regular season was as exciting as the finals are now.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2015-06-16, 00:07

This has been an absolutely great NBA finals. Regardless of my feelings regarding Lebron's greatness compared to others, there is no denying his talent, which is absolutely unbvelievable and fun to watch. And GSW is a very fun team to watch and get behind, especially with Day Day and a good guy like Curry leading them. As extraordinary as James is, some of the shit Steph was doing last night was making my jaw drop more than the stuff Lebron was doing.

The NBA is in good hands with its current crop of stars and Silver at the helm. It's a different era for sure but I hope some animosity and rivalries develop to rival the 80's and 90's. The "bro-ship" in today's game is the only thing holding it back from becoming an epic time in the sport.

by Herbie Green 2015-06-16, 00:36

I completely disagree with WBH. Even if the Cavs lose this next game I am almost to the point of declaring Lebron the best baller in the history of the game. And I never liked the guy - although I gained more respect for him coming back to Cleveland. I hated Bird and Jordan but can look back and recognize their greatness - with more fondness for Bird because I will always hate Jordan even if I have to reluctantly concede he was the best player ever - until maybe now.
The Cavs were never supposed to be in this thing from the start. Now they had the Warriors on the brink with serious injuries. It would be like Jordan without Pippen and Rodman, Magic without Kareem and Worthy. What is he averaging - 40 points, 15 rebounds and 12 assists? No shit he is a little tired at the end of the game. And no doubt when he pulls up for a 3 in crunch time or takes it to the hole you think he is going to come through. The choker ship sailed long ago.
This might be the best performance of basketball by a player I have ever seen. The guy can go inside, outside, rebound, pass, defend. I think he is the best player in the NBA at any position 1 through 5. I love Curry but come on that MVP is a joke. Even Curry's best game of the series didn't stack up to Lebron.
I don't know what he is saying in post game press conferences though.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-06-16, 00:40

Lebron is going to win the Cavs Game 6. I'm changing my prediction to Warriors in 7.

by **Turtleneck** 2015-06-16, 00:52

LeBron is up there as an all-time great, but he is not (yet) the best ever. Some of you must be Wisconsin basketball fans because you think the game of basketball was invented after the year 2000.

by **CORNER BLITZ** 2015-06-16, 01:06

I would say Lebron is the all time great freak of nature athlete in the NBA

Basketball player... top 10

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